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Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
   |
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
It IS dead, but you can still do it.
What is the point of this flame attracting thread? What possible sensible answer could I present for this quandary? Well, this is a topic that cuts deeply into my profound boredom with the game. So, I am somewhat qualified.
Solo PVP Is Alive & Well...It Just Requires The Truly Stupid To Play Fox For The Hound
That epic kill mail getting so much attention (the one where an arbitrator took out a recon and 2x black ops) looks like an epic win and proof that solo pvp is alive and well... at first. But for someone who has experience flying all of the ships in question I can tell you that the pilot was not "L33T" it was just that his targets were so damn stupid.
This is what "solo pvp is dead means"
It does not mean that it does not exist, it means that it is now a hunt for the brain damage lol fail vegetables of this MMORPG.
Using this kill as a reference (the one with the lucky arbitrator and several stupid rich black ops pilots) I will give a quick overview for how completely asinine the stupidly wealthy BLOP gang had to be to pull of such a dumbfounding act of stupidity.
The Stupidity Check List
1. There were 4x redeemers on the field, that translates to 12x4 = 48 medium drones, and even more warriors AND ECM drones. This does not even include the Sin drone boat that was on the field which can carry as many on it's own. That is well over 500 DPS in drone alone (again not including the SIN)
2. If each redeemer had carried but 1 single heavy neut in their high slot (which seems fitting since it cannot hold a full rack of high guns in it's highs anyway) then it would have drained the Arbitrator dry in less then 29 seconds (if he turned off his smart bombs). This of course is not taking into account the Sin. Bye, bye tracking disruptor and bye bye scram.
3. We have webs for a reason. If they had bothered to fit them (with their expensive fit they could have gotten 15km webs) then you would be able to slow it's transverse enough so as arbitrator orbits redeemer 1, redeemer 2,3,4 (and SIN) can burn it down.
4. ECM drones anyone? (Not that you would need it for an arbitrator)
5. 5 battleships on the field is like having one Guardian with you at all times (RR anyone?) Do you think that a black ops ship would have trouble tanking sentry fire if they have a Guardian in tow? No.
So, here are five reasons why a fleet of BLOPS CANNOT POSSIBLY die to a single tech I cruiser. It requires profound and dumbfounding stupidity on the part of the pilots themselves to make such a feat possible. The lone "Solo PVP'er" merely has to be at the right place at the right time. It is happenstance, like getting struck by lighting or being attacked by an ostrich in broad daylight.
So Before You Go Patting Him On The Back (or yourself for that matter)
Consider the reality of your circumstances. Should your opponent have done what they should have done (as in what is commonly known do's and don'ts in PVP in EVE Online) you yourself would not have had a chance in hell. You, the epic sauce ego filled nerd god self proclaimed as a miracle to all things gaming, are hunting the stupid, the inept and those demonstrating a grotesque absence of common sense.
These people are the source of your "ZMGHTF did he do that" victory. So it involves nothing else on the part of the solo pilot but a decent solo build and flying around long enough to find the fool in question.
 This is where the term "Solo PVP is hard to find" comes from.
Translation: "It takes a good long while to find a target of sufficient stupidity to make me look really good at EVE"
So People We Say "Solo PVP Is Dead"
They are NOT saying that it no longer exists, or that it is impossible. They are saying that they don't derive a great deal of fun from the slow search for stupid pilots and people in the wrong place at the wrong time. They are suggesting that actual PVP vs actual players who know how to fight back well, and fit their ships well, makes for a more fun game for them.
So as you fly around in your arbitrators and take down redeemers one by one, as if they were make of paper and you were the greek god of war, Ares himself, raining hell upon those much smaller then you... just consider for a moment that your success relies almost exclusively on your opponents ineptitude.
So give us folks a break when we say "PVP is dead", because our idea of what PVP is is not the same as yours. We would be happy with a place where we could 1v1 all day long in various ships without getting hot-dropped by capitals or guardians. A place where we could leroy a megathron into a small gang in a belt without a local spike of 20 entering system. We are interested in another form of "solo PVP" that seems to go beyond your meager desires for self elevation and disillusionment. We just want to have a little fun when we come home from work without having to wait so long, and fight actual opponents in the process. We don't want to take down entire BLOPs fleets, we just want some reasonable good fights with real pvp'ers.
That is my version of "solo PVP"
...and yes, it died a long time ago.
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Demolishar
United Aggression
721
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
So much effort, only to be locked for trolling very shortly I imagine. Using the original definition of trolling. |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Demolishar wrote:So much effort, only to be locked for trolling very shortly I imagine. Using the original definition of trolling.
Hit a little too close to home did I? There is nothing troll worthy about my clearly stated opinion. You however seem to be derailing a thread with nothing to contribute to the discussion. that sir... is trolling.
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Riall
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote: Yada, yada....
You, the epic sauce ego filled nerd god self proclaimed as a miracle to all things gaming, are hunting the stupid, the inept and those demonstrating a grotesque absence of common sense.
He wasn't self-proclaimed at all... When interviewed about the encounter, he shrugged and said, they were kind of stupid. http://themittani.com/news/alod-little-arby-could
The praise he was getting was for being calm and just doing his thing.
"Buy PLEX, don't be a space butt"
Keepin' it... me. |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Riall wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: Yada, yada....
You, the epic sauce ego filled nerd god self proclaimed as a miracle to all things gaming, are hunting the stupid, the inept and those demonstrating a grotesque absence of common sense.
He wasn't self-proclaimed at all... When interviewed about the encounter, he shrugged and said, they were kind of stupid. http://themittani.com/news/alod-little-arby-couldThe praise he was getting was for being calm and just doing his thing.
It was just an example, I invite future readers to not take an example (to convey a point) to literally, whether it be on these forums or anyplace else. It is just the most public and up to date representation that I could come up with, meant for the average reader to relate with. What the pilot in question said in an interview has little value to the overall topic of the OP.
But evidently even that arbitrator pilot agrees with my OP... Go figure.
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Lexmana
884
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Smart beats stupid. More EVE news at eleven. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1411
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
you can't kill something without life
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Riall
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Riall wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: Yada, yada....
You, the epic sauce ego filled nerd god self proclaimed as a miracle to all things gaming, are hunting the stupid, the inept and those demonstrating a grotesque absence of common sense.
He wasn't self-proclaimed at all... When interviewed about the encounter, he shrugged and said, they were kind of stupid. http://themittani.com/news/alod-little-arby-couldThe praise he was getting was for being calm and just doing his thing. It was just an example, I invite future readers to not take an example (to convey a point) to literally, whether it be on these forums or anyplace else. It is just the most public and up to date representation that I could come up with, meant for the average reader to relate with. What the pilot in question said in an interview has little value to the overall topic of the OP. But evidently even that arbitrator pilot agrees with my OP... Go figure.
I see, you just think your readers are stupid, got it.  Wait, if that were true, wouldn't that mean more "foxes"?
"Buy PLEX, don't be a space butt"
Keepin' it... me. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
1593
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Funnily enough I find non-agreed 1vs1s every time I fly out solo, and not against ratters or tards, but against pilots who are looking for the very same thing. Yes, I sometimes die to camps, that is the risk I accept when flying true solo. I'm not in it for the stats, I want my kicks. I could roll with my perfect OGB and scanner alts, but that's small gang and it's more fun with real humans.
Lowsec is full of solo, and this is a fact. FW plexes and Retribution lit lowsec in wonderful flames, there's more pew than you can eat and all kinds of small ships and crazy fits.
Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |
Gal'o Sengen
State War Academy
Caldari State
79
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
You're vastly overanalyzing that kill. The Arbitrator had taken more damage than it is possible for and Arbitrator to fit in the Killmail, and he was not fitting a Rep. It was faked, it's that simple. |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Roime wrote:Funnily enough I find non-agreed 1vs1s every time I fly out solo, and not against ratters or tards, but against pilots who are looking for the very same thing. Yes, I sometimes die to camps, that is the risk I accept when flying true solo. I'm not in it for the stats, I want my kicks. I could roll with my perfect OGB and scanner alts, but that's small gang and it's more fun with real humans.
Lowsec is full of solo, and this is a fact. FW plexes and Retribution lit lowsec in wonderful flames, there's more pew than you can eat and all kinds of small ships and crazy fits.
Please educate me with volumes of well fit 1v1 KM's.
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Cozmik R5
Chez Stan
209
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Roime wrote:Funnily enough I find non-agreed 1vs1s every time I fly out solo, and not against ratters or tards, but against pilots who are looking for the very same thing. Yes, I sometimes die to camps, that is the risk I accept when flying true solo. I'm not in it for the stats, I want my kicks. I could roll with my perfect OGB and scanner alts, but that's small gang and it's more fun with real humans.
Lowsec is full of solo, and this is a fact. FW plexes and Retribution lit lowsec in wonderful flames, there's more pew than you can eat and all kinds of small ships and crazy fits.
I was gonna write something but you apparently read my mind! C ya in space 
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try. |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 17:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gal'o Sengen wrote:You're vastly overanalyzing that kill. The Arbitrator had taken more damage than it is possible for and Arbitrator to fit in the Killmail, and he was not fitting a Rep. It was faked, it's that simple.
Again it is the most current example to date. I could have picked anything, but current is better. Also, to simply say a thing is so does not make it so. Stupid things like this happen often enough regardless.
Also:
Cozmik R5, feel free to educate me with large quantities of KM evidence.
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Solstice Project
Highsec Outlaw Elementary School
2533
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
All those cowards flying around with logi alts would disagree
and state that solo-pvp is all alive and well and would even show their killmails to prove it.
xD
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:All those cowards flying around with logi alts would disagree
and state that solo-pvp is all alive and well and would even show their killmails to prove it.
xD
Touche! 
|
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
662
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
"Hey sucker, you only won the fight because your enemy acted more stupidly than you did!"
guess what? that's how pvp works.
"But these blackops pilots were really stupid..."
you know, the guy who engaged me despite my over 9000 friends in local was really stupid as well
... as was the guy who died in his kiting ship because he couldn't be bothered with manual piloting to maintain range
... as was the SFI pilot who didn't consider that Drop might hard-counter his speed-tank and thus hadn't prepared any option to escalate or bail.
Any victories that are not attributable to the enemies' stupidity are due to pure luck.
I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Amusing.
Now-a-days we don't say "I was the better" we say "I was of average intelligence compared to your stupid and thus I deserved victory".
Ah yea... I am not going to adhere to this kind of thinking. There is more to life then this, be it in game or in reality.
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3295
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:It IS dead, but you can still do it.
What is the point of this flame attracting thread? What possible sensible answer could I present for this quandary? Well, this is a topic that cuts deeply into my profound boredom with the game. So, I am somewhat qualified.
Troll indeed. Why are you still here ?
America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
- Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Pinaculus
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
202
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hasn't solo PvP always been insanely hard, very expensive, and incredibly time-consuming? And hasn't it always involved killing people that don't how to fit, fly, or run away? I'm just confused as to how this is news. Some dude in a T1 Arby finds a bunch of morons in blops ships gate-camping, gets them to aggress, then proceeds to bring in his logi alt so he can survive all the dps while he locks them down and kills them. They fail to retreat because they are stupid.
It's quintessential EVE! The only thing missing from this story is a booster alt (though I'm sure there was one somewhere).
I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:It IS dead, but you can still do it.
What is the point of this flame attracting thread? What possible sensible answer could I present for this quandary? Well, this is a topic that cuts deeply into my profound boredom with the game. So, I am somewhat qualified.
Troll indeed. Why are you still here ?
Because the forums are far less boring of course.
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Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pinaculus wrote:Hasn't solo PvP always been insanely hard, very expensive, and incredibly time-consuming? And hasn't it always involved killing people that don't how to fit, fly, or run away? I'm just confused as to how this is news. Some dude in a T1 Arby finds a bunch of morons in blops ships gate-camping, gets them to aggress, then proceeds to bring in his logi alt so he can survive all the dps while he locks them down and kills them. They fail to retreat because they are stupid.
It's quintessential EVE! The only thing missing from this story is a booster alt (though I'm sure there was one somewhere).
Many things have changed in eve. I seem to remember a time when jetcan mining was extremely commonplace. You can find them everywhere that you looked and play take the ore games with little effort and search. Once you could warp to a belt in low sec and actually find a fight with confidence that there would be no cyno or local spike. It was like the exact mirror opposite to what you expect to happen now.
So no, I disagree, things have changed a great deal in EVE and PVP has not always been this way.
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Solstice Project
Highsec Outlaw Elementary School
2534
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:So no, I disagree, things have changed a great deal in EVE and PVP has not always been this way.
Indeed.
The amount of cowards, with no actual self esteem, has increased exponentially.
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
531
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
So are you saying that solo pilots win only against stupid pilots? My god I'm so st00pid.
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Mizhir
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
2523
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
So all the efford you once put into training newbies like me to fly damp caracals against larger gangs were all in vain?
I had much respect for you, but all your negative posting has caused me to lose it. All if it.
If you are having Smurf problems I feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but a Blue aint one. |
Solstice Project
Highsec Outlaw Elementary School
2534
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 18:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:So are you saying that solo pilots win only against stupid pilots? My god I'm so st00pid.
So you keep losing in 1vs1 ??
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
ROXGenghis
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
59
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 19:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gal'o Sengen wrote:You're vastly overanalyzing that kill. The Arbitrator had taken more damage than it is possible for and Arbitrator to fit in the Killmail, and he was not fitting a Rep. It was faked, it's that simple.
That's a really interesting point, so I did the math to confirm it. How could that Arby take 15,225 damage?
The Arby as set up has 11,569 hit points according to EFT, so we have 3656 unaccounted-for hit points on the killmail.
But we still haven't considered passive shield recharge, which can be significant over extended periods of time.
The fight lasted ~15 minutes, and EFT says the Arby's passive shield recharge is 4 DPS at a zero-resist profile. This multiplies out to 3600 hit points repaired by shields during the fight.
If you add the Arby's buffer to the shield recharge value, you get 15,169, well within the margin of error and actually eerily close to 15,225. However, EFT's number is for peak recharge, and the Arby was probably pretty far from peak recharge most of the time, making it unlikely that it tanked a full 3600 hit points from just passive shield recharge.
I'm left unsure of what to believe. Maybe someone can point to an error in my analysis, or an alternative explanation for the large-ish amount of damage taken by the Arby. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
626
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 19:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
You know a thread sucks when not even destination skill queue likes it.
Also IBTL.
From: Tommas De'Wins
To: Cipher Jones
Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 19:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:So all the efford you once put into training newbies like me to fly damp caracals against larger gangs were all in vain?
I had much respect for you, but all your negative posting has caused me to lose it. All if it.
You probably didn't read the forums much back then because I have always spoke in negative in general discussion. I speak pleasant in the rookie section for people who need help (like the former you) and I post debate worthy trivia in out of pod experience. I even have a new and improved helpful signature for whoever bothers to click it.
About those caracals... we got a couple of really good fights and it was fun while it lasted. But, that was an excessive in "team work in cheap ships" over expensive ships. A blob of noobs in remote sensor dampening caracals burning away from a target lobbing missiles at 100km is far from 1v1 PVP. The two ideas are just not related.
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Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 19:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
ROXGenghis wrote:[quote=Gal'o Sengen]
The Arby as set up has 11,569 hit points according to EFT, so we have 3656 unaccounted-for hit points on the killmail.
.
Have you accounted for EM dealing Redeemers and your average run of the mill leadership bonuses?
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Lexmana
884
|
Posted - 2013.01.11 19:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Roime wrote:Funnily enough I find non-agreed 1vs1s every time I fly out solo, and not against ratters or tards, but against pilots who are looking for the very same thing. Yes, I sometimes die to camps, that is the risk I accept when flying true solo. I'm not in it for the stats, I want my kicks. I could roll with my perfect OGB and scanner alts, but that's small gang and it's more fun with real humans.
Lowsec is full of solo, and this is a fact. FW plexes and Retribution lit lowsec in wonderful flames, there's more pew than you can eat and all kinds of small ships and crazy fits. Please educate me with volumes of well fit 1v1 KM's.
I know it is not much but you can check my killboard for dec + jan. All kills are solo though losses are mostly not.
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