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Marvel Master
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Posted - 2005.06.22 03:51:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Marvel Master on 22/06/2005 04:01:17
Edited by: Marvel Master on 22/06/2005 03:59:52
Stealthbomber useless till yet, but i find a remedy.
It would be help, if a pilot could use 1 citadel torpedo on the stealth bomber with 1 launcher and has
no looking penalty. And the bomber should use the covert cloaking device, so that he can warp cloaked.
Perhaps, the citadel torpedo has -50% damage on this bomber. The Cargo from the ship is 0. Therefore you can only load 1 torpedo.
That would be a reasonable change.
Marvel
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IamBen
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Posted - 2005.06.22 03:52:00 -
[2]
It would make it way over-powered. The stealth bomber as it is now is great for ambushes if used carefully. Its got a niche. Its not meant to be an all purpose gank-ship.
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Leno
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Posted - 2005.06.22 03:53:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Marvel Master
Stealthbomber useless till yet, but i find a remedy.
It would be help, if a pilot could use 1 citadel torpedo on the stealth bomber and has
no looking penalty. And the bomber should use the covert cloaking device, so that he can warp cloaked.
That would be a reasonable change.
Marvel
Then why should i use a cov ops??? Also citadel torp is a lil over the top, would like faster lock time and maybe even bigger dmg.
Actually thinking about it i just want a regular bomber that is somewhere between ceptor and frig in terms of speed and is like the frigs of old with cruise missles.... ahh what i would do for that.
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RIP - Smoske, My Friend
Coasterbrian > babies are good, especially raw
Coasterbrian > soft and crunchy at the same time
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Rawne Karrde
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Posted - 2005.06.22 03:54:00 -
[4]
should use covert ops cloak, agreed
should not use citadel torps cruise missles are enough.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.06.22 03:56:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Nyphur on 22/06/2005 03:56:52
So you're suggesting making it the exact same as the covert ops frigate except without the locking penalty and with the ability to deal 6000 damage per volley? I don't think I need to explain why that's never going to happen.
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Rawne Karrde
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Posted - 2005.06.22 04:02:00 -
[6]
No but i do have a problem that a "stealth" bomber takes like 20 seconds with paper thin defences to lock its target.
There definately needs to be a balance though. So make them not stealth bombers and not under the covert ops category and then we can get this stealth idea out of our heads. maybe make them a bit more defensive as well.
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Swedish Bob
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Posted - 2005.06.22 04:05:00 -
[7]
Why not just make a cheap ship that IS a citadel torp. Get some friends and suicide gank.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.06.22 04:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Swedish Bob
Why not just make a cheap ship that IS a citadel torp. Get some friends and suicide gank.
The ramifications of such a ship would make CONCORD pointless.
The Citadel Torpedo idea isnt bad, infact it may help force tanking in fleets again.
Another solution is to allow both Siege and Cruise Launchers, so you could use either Cruise or Torps on the stealth bombers.
Also, the Manticore either needs one less launcher, or the other three need one more. 50% more firepower for Caldari is a bit much.
~Sobe |
ezzle
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Posted - 2005.06.22 06:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Marvel Master
Edited by: Marvel Master on 22/06/2005 04:16:31
Stealthbomber useless till yet, but i find a remedy.
Corpmates hound would strongly dissagree with you here.
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prsr
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Posted - 2005.06.22 06:45:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
The Citadel Torpedo idea isnt bad, infact it may help force tanking in fleets again.
Why would it encourage anyone to do something that is utterly pointless?
If anything it promotes more ganks, but that should be obvious.
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.06.22 07:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: prsr
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
The Citadel Torpedo idea isnt bad, infact it may help force tanking in fleets again.
Why would it encourage anyone to do something that is utterly pointless?
If anything it promotes more ganks, but that should be obvious.
More people in frigs, less people in BSes, which means BSes have to deal with more smaller targets.
In any case, maybe a special warhead is needed, or perhaps the role of the ship itself needs adjusting from being a stealth bomber to being a strategic bomber. Make it fast, not as fast as an inty, and to reinforce that, give it a bit too much mass to reach ceptor speeds since it is intended to be a little ship that hurts big ships.
~Sobe |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.06.22 07:48:00 -
[12]
Stealth bomber should not use covert-ops cloak, but should have the locking penalty and cloak cycle timers reduced.
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Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.06.22 07:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
More people in frigs, less people in BSes, which means BSes have to deal with more smaller targets.
The way to force people into frigates is not to make them better than battleships. Even Tech II frigates are still frigates, after all. Having the ability to dump 6000 damage on any target once every so many seconds is not something a frigate should have. I mean, you're lucky they even made a frigate capable of carrying cruise missiles, now you aren't asking for them to use torpedos, making them twice as good, you're asking to let them use citadel torpedos reserved for giant starbase launchers that deal almsot ten times the damage of cruise missiles. I'm sorry but it simply isn't going to happen. If you want something that fires citadel torpedos, perhaps a dreadnought could fire them in siege mode with a really large refire time of 50 seconds or so, but a frigate will never be able to fire them. Ever. It's just unreasonable to ask for it.
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Monty Burns
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Posted - 2005.06.22 08:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Leno
....Actually thinking about it i just want a regular bomber that is somewhere between ceptor and frig in terms of speed and is like the frigs of old with cruise missles.... ahh what i would do for that.
Really? Gonna call your bluff here  50mil and my Cruise Missile armed Kestrel is all yours. You collect from DSS and it only fires one salvo, although I will supply it with lots of Cruise Missiles! 
Darwin 4tw
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Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.06.22 08:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nyphur
Having the ability to dump 6000 damage on any target once every so many seconds is not something a frigate should have.
I think you misread the original post. One shot, that's it, back to base to reload.
~Sobe |
Jamin Berry
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Posted - 2005.06.22 09:10:00 -
[16]
i think they shud all have 3 missle slots, and the locking penalty shud be brought down. or we can just warp while cloaked, AND have the penalty brought down. kinda *** u have to wait around till u can lock ppl.
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Every time you click here i get 5 smac a ronies |
Durinatim
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Posted - 2005.06.22 09:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Also, the Manticore either needs one less launcher, or the other three need one more. 50% more firepower for Caldari is a bit much.
Would be pretty pointless having various ships if they were all the same.
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.06.22 10:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Marvel Master
It would be help, if a pilot could use 1 citadel torpedo on the stealth bomber with 1 launcher and has no looking penalty. And the bomber should use the covert cloaking device, so that he can warp cloaked.
That would make them way too powerfull, tho i agree they need covertops cloak or at least a reduced locking time penalty.
Death to the Galante |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.06.22 11:40:00 -
[19]
I sort of like Stealth bombers, but they have very limiting roles. Though, with very little skills for it, I am already up to 452 damage hits with normal resists. This is with the Nemsis.
The one thing that bugs me, is that the Manticore has an extra launcher but you could take that it doesn't get the damage bonus that the other races have.
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2005.06.22 11:53:00 -
[20]
I really liked the old design, 6 std launchers, 4 mids, 2 lows, 5% bonus to damage 5% bonus to missile launcher speed per frig level, same for bomber level. Would of ended up with a 50% bonus to damage, missile range, and missile speed.
They may not fill a real PVP role, but they are fun if you like screwing small to mid sized 0.0 gate camps. (Watch out for sniper BS's)
Fear the Ibis of doom. |
Tarn Marshnon
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Posted - 2005.06.22 12:35:00 -
[21]
Have you seen the new missle skills. They will make missle boats a specialized group. Fear missle boats.
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Carl Jidona
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Posted - 2005.06.22 13:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Marvel Master
Edited by: Marvel Master on 22/06/2005 04:16:31
Stealthbomber useless till yet, but i find a remedy.
It would be help, if a pilot could use 1 citadel torpedo on the stealth bomber with 1 launcher and has
no looking penalty. And the bomber should use the covert cloaking device, so that he can warp cloaked.
Perhaps, the citadel torpedo has -50% damage on this bomber. The Cargo from the ship is 0. Therefore you can only load 1 torpedo.
That would be a reasonable change.
Marvel
I was wondering if those torps are now just for POS launchers? and maybe carriers and dreds when they come out correct?
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.06.22 13:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Originally by: Nyphur
Having the ability to dump 6000 damage on any target once every so many seconds is not something a frigate should have.
I think you misread the original post. One shot, that's it, back to base to reload.
I think you're forgetting that the caldari ship can have three launchers and the cargo space of the ship is more than enough for a few reloads.
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Vivus Mors
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Posted - 2005.06.22 14:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Carl Jidona
I was wondering if those torps are now just for POS launchers? and maybe carriers and dreds when they come out correct?
yes, currently, Citadel torpedos are the sole territory of POS citadel torpedo launchers, and they are technically classified as an "Extra Large" (XL) class of weapon.
now that also means that Dreadnoughts, Carriers, and Titans are likely to be able to use them (or their respective racial turret in XL class) since they are also considered "extra large" combat ships.
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For the price of one can of Quafe cola a day, you can adopt an Ewok... Please... think of the Ewoks... |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.06.22 14:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Boonaki
They may not fill a real PVP role, but they are fun if you like screwing small to mid sized 0.0 gate camps. (Watch out for sniper BS's)
They fill the role, they are good at taking down t1 cruisers and frigates and sneaking up on people. Find someone ratting, move in, use passive targeter and then dampen them and start firing. Works equally well on miners.
One of our corp members took out an Omen sitting out 100kms from a belt. The Omen thought, "Hey a Tristan, that is any easy kill," by the time the Omen relieazed that it was super charged Thermal cruise missles it was to late since he was MWD to him and his speed made him slow to align for warp.
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Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.06.22 15:23:00 -
[26]
Imagines a wing of 3 stealth bombers warping in launching 3 citadel torps at me.
Too powerful im afraid i can see many ways this can be used to gank people in many empire zones. Tho i agee bombers need a lot of work still to get them to work right i feel that giving them a pos torp is a bit over the top.
What is needed is to give them a sensor recalibration fix say 5 seconds to recalibrate. Reason being is you uncloak then lock someone that will take roughly 6 seconds if you are really good, 5 seconds is long enough for someone paying proper attention to run away if he/she has to and if he/she wants to try and kill that bomber then the 6 second time to launch a torp at you will give you time if you are good that is to fire a voley first therefore giving the victim a chance to do something [ even if it involves running ].
Also this means its possable to be tactical with bombers and do this uncloak fire cloak before you are locked.
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Mathias Zealot
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Posted - 2005.06.22 23:49:00 -
[27]
i see everybody bothered to check their information, citadel torpedos deal 1800 damage, not 6000.
Item Database - Citadel Torpedos
The idea isn't bad, it's still not gonna take out battleships in one shot, and after the patch it probably wont take out cruisers, or even frigates in one shot either. Good idea, though i'd like to see how the bombers work after the patch first.
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Verizana
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Posted - 2005.06.23 00:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Marvel Master
Edited by: Marvel Master on 22/06/2005 04:16:31
Stealthbomber useless till yet, but i find a remedy.
It would be help, if a pilot could use 1 citadel torpedo on the stealth bomber with 1 launcher and has
no looking penalty. And the bomber should use the covert cloaking device, so that he can warp cloaked.
Perhaps, the citadel torpedo has -50% damage on this bomber. The Cargo from the ship is 0. Therefore you can only load 1 torpedo.
That would be a reasonable change.
Marvel
Just imagine a group of [5] pilots (when I say group, I mean GROUP :D) all on these just wtfpwning everybody! Not fair!
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"There will come days when sleep walking isn't good enough, and when you post a frckn comment on auction threads it's l |
Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.06.23 00:51:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Kyoko Sakoda on 23/06/2005 00:51:47
The main problem I see with bomber is their lack of speed and slow recaliberation. Granted, they should not be going as fast as interceptors, but maybe as fast as a T1 frigate? Sensor recal. is also a real let down as a 12-second wait period really gimps the "surprise" attribute these ships are supposed to have. The damage it deals is fine, and I don't like the Citadel idea. These are meant to use in groups anyway.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.06.23 02:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mathias Zealot
i see everybody bothered to check their information, citadel torpedos deal 1800 damage, not 6000.
Item Database - Citadel Torpedos
The idea isn't bad, it's still not gonna take out battleships in one shot, and after the patch it probably wont take out cruisers, or even frigates in one shot either. Good idea, though i'd like to see how the bombers work after the patch first.
I didn't say they dealt 6000. I know they deal 1800. The caldari bomber has three launcher hardpoints, meaning you can deal 1800*3 = 5400. I rounded it up to 6000 for simplicity's sake and also because all it takes is one good ballistic mod to rack that damage up to around the 6000 mark. And if you think this won't take out a battleship in one shot, you're not thinking of the big picture. A few of these things at a 0.4 gate, already aligned to warp, will mean instant gank for the first battleship that comes near and they get away without a problem. Stop thinking in terms of one ship and start thinking in terms of a gang of the things.
And my point remains. It's a bloody frigate. If battleships can't deal 6000 damage in one hit with missiles, why the hell would a frigate be able to? Tech II or otherwise, it's still a frigate and it's not going to deal 6000 when the best missile platform battleship in the game can only deal 3000-4000 per volley.
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