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Phanixis Khardula
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 03:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have run into a rather interesting situation. I noticed that rolled tungsten plates go up 1600 nm, yet shield extenders stop at large shield extenders, which are roughly equivalent to 800 nm plate. Large shield extenders are supposed to be for battleships according to Eve wiki, and yet I can fit two of them to a cruiser without any trouble at all. It would be nice if the was a larger size, so I could save a mid-slot on my double large shield extender fit. Are their any ship mods out there that would fit this purpose?
Thanks for the help. |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
577
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 04:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nope. One of the many differences between shield tanks and armor tanks is that shield buffer mods don't go as high as armor buffer mods. Shield tanks have the invulnerability field, however, as well as ancillary shield boosters; armor has nothing comparable. |

Eternal Error
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
278
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 04:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Armor gets oversized plates, shields get oversized boosters. |

Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
215
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 05:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
power diagnostic system, goes to low slot Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
540
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 05:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:power diagnostic system, goes to low slot
I see your PDS, and raise you a Layered Plating II.
OP, there is no XL Shield Extender. We may be seeing one "soon (tm)" though. (Blatant conjecture based on unsupported theories) |

Theo Ramone
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 07:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Nope. One of the many differences between shield tanks and armor tanks is that shield buffer mods don't go as high as armor buffer mods. Shield tanks have the invulnerability field, however, as well as ancillary shield boosters; armor has nothing comparable.
Ancillary shield booster best shield booster. Until it runs out of charges and I dont notice, and suddenly I;m stuck wondering why someone turned off my ship. :/ |

Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
606
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 09:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Is someone honestly whining about shield extenders not being OP enough? Seriously?
@OP, you get increased hp/s regen from your increased shield HP, if you can somehow make that happen for armor then you can ask for more HP. Also, mass&agility and shield >>>>> armor.
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |

Nikea Tiber
Backwater Enterprises RD
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 20:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shields regenerate, armor doesn't. While shield extenders give you some extra sig radius, plates effect your mobility. Shield boosters boost your shields practically instantly and they cycle faster, not only do they have an XL size, but they also come in ASB flavors. If you hate that shield boosting is less cap efficient than armor boosting, fit a boost amp or rigs... armor tanking only gets rigs to this effect. I'm glad that armor tanking and shield tanking are different, homogenization isn't always a good thing. |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
531
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 00:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
2 shield extenders |

Phanixis Khardula
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 04:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback. I will have to look into these shield boosters. |

Idicious Lightbane
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
41
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 11:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
An XL-ASB will inject far more shield HP than an LSE after it's injected a full load of them. You often need to sacrifice at least 1 slot for fitting usually though, so it all depends. Instead of looking at ASB's as an active tank module you can see it as injecting more EHP over time, so unless you're getting overwhelmed with DPS it will give you more. |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
423
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 11:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
A post suggesting that Armor is superior to shields and that needs to be fixed..
What bizzaro world have i stepped into now? |

Sam Korak
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 12:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Real men hull tank. |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
467
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 13:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Phanixis Khardula wrote:I have run into a rather interesting situation. I noticed that rolled tungsten plates go up 1600 nm, yet shield extenders stop at large shield extenders, which are roughly equivalent to 800 nm plate. Large shield extenders are supposed to be for battleships according to Eve wiki, and yet I can fit two of them to a cruiser without any trouble at all. It would be nice if the was a larger size, so I could save a mid-slot on my double large shield extender fit. Are their any ship mods out there that would fit this purpose?
Thanks for the help.
Yet I can't fit a large armor rep in my cruiser and there's no Xl-armor rep to fit on my battlecruiser, nor XL-ancilary armor reps, and actually can't even fit a simple large armor rep to my BC.
Life sucks. |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
1626
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 13:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:A post suggesting that Armor is superior to shields and that needs to be fixed..
What bizzaro world have i stepped into now?
One example of things young pilots learn in the Royal Amarr Institute, and our other prestigious universities.
The empires of New Eden are poor, and they can't hire lecturers or even tutors, so they are mostly places where they young go to chat about TV series and what they are currently eating, while they work on the local asteroid fields for minimum wage. And repeat memes like parrots, and tell urban myths to each others are raw facts- they heard it on the campus.
Some run meaningless errands for exploiters they call "Agents", who feed them with a drug called "Goldfish". Goldfish causes short-term memory loss and dullness of mind, making it possible for "Agents" to send their victims to rescue the damsel for two hundred times without these poor students realizing that they are just being leeched from their time, social ties and possibilities for career advancement for tiny reward.
Educational system is the basis of any civilized society, and it is in critical state in New Eden.
Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |

Marc Callan
NullOcular Order THORN Alliance
120
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 17:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sam Korak wrote:Real men hull tank.
Well, Taranis pilots, Orca pilots, and maybe some Dominix pilots hull tank. (Seriously, is there a subcapital beyond those three that can actually pull off a hull tank?) |

Phanixis Khardula
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 02:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Am I to understand that shield tanking is preferable to armor tanking whenever possible. I am currently flying Amarr ships, which tend to have plentiful lows and good resist for armor tanking. I happen to be flying an arbitrary and running missions so I have no need for propulsion jamming and ewarfare at the moment, but it seems I may not have the luxury of shield tanking if I need to fit for these functions or a run a different Amarr ship. |

Random Woman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 10:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:Sam Korak wrote:Real men hull tank. Well, Taranis pilots, Orca pilots, and maybe some Dominix pilots hull tank. (Seriously, is there a subcapital beyond those three that can actually pull off a hull tank?)
Megathron Navy, Bulkheads II, DC2, and bait away ;) |

Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
629
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 11:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Random Woman wrote:Marc Callan wrote:Sam Korak wrote:Real men hull tank. Well, Taranis pilots, Orca pilots, and maybe some Dominix pilots hull tank. (Seriously, is there a subcapital beyond those three that can actually pull off a hull tank?) Megathron Navy, Bulkheads II, DC2, and bait away ;)
In the end everyone hull tanks, if only for a few seconds.
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
1638
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 11:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:Sam Korak wrote:Real men hull tank. Well, Taranis pilots, Orca pilots, and maybe some Dominix pilots hull tank. (Seriously, is there a subcapital beyond those three that can actually pull off a hull tank?)
New Tristan :) http://shivafurnace.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15879215 Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
544
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 11:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Phanixis Khardula wrote:Am I to understand that shield tanking is preferable to armor tanking whenever possible. I am currently flying Amarr ships, which tend to have plentiful lows and good resist for armor tanking. I happen to be flying an arbitrary and running missions so I have no need for propulsion jamming and ewarfare at the moment, but it seems I may not have the luxury of shield tanking if I need to fit for these functions or a run a different Amarr ship.
Armour tanking works fine for PvE. The two top battleships for PvE are both shield tankers though.
The issues with armour tanking only really matter for PvP, and those issues are usually presented in a manner that is completely one sided and fallacious.
If you want to armour tank for PvE, you will be able to do so and be quite competitive. You just wont be the very tippy-top of min-maxing efficiency. |

Viktoria Von Doom
Raven Microcybernautics
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 16:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
The reason armor gets a bigger buffer mod is because shield also gets a built in regeneration component. The actual buffer on a LSE may not be as large, but it also comes with a guaranteed bonus to shield regen which ends up giving effectively comparable EHP bonus. |

Cambarus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
246
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 17:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Paikis wrote: Armour tanking works fine for PvE. The two top battleships for PvE are both shield tankers though.
The issues with armour tanking only really matter for PvP, and those issues are usually presented in a manner that is completely one sided and fallacious.
If you want to armour tank for PvE, you will be able to do so and be quite competitive. You just wont be the very tippy-top of min-maxing efficiency.
The navy domi, nightmare, vargur and mach all shield tank (at least if you want them to be any good) and pretty much everything else is meh for missions. This is to be more or less expected though, given that ewar is of little use in pve and damage projection is much more useful.
To the OP: Shields have so many advantages that despite the fact that they only go up to LSEs they're still pretty much on par with armor tanking in buffer fits. This becomes more obvious as you start looking up ship fittings, and notice that, particularly among the smaller ships, anything with more than 3 mids tends to shield tank.
Active tanking is another issue altogether, and shields need a nerf in that area (or better yet armor needs a buff, active tanking has been rather lackluster for a while now) |

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
544
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 19:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:To the OP: Shields have so many advantages that despite the fact that they only go up to LSEs they're still pretty much on par with armor tanking in buffer fits. This becomes more obvious as you start looking up ship fittings, and notice that, particularly among the smaller ships, anything with more than 3 mids tends to shield tank.
Active tanking is another issue altogether, and shields need a nerf in that area (or better yet armor needs a buff, active tanking has been rather lackluster for a while now)
The comment in regards to buffer fits is simply not true. There are some shield resist bonused hulls that can pull it off against non-resist bonused armour hulls, but as a general rule, armour tanks will have bigger buffers.
Think I'm wrong? Show me a shield battleship that has more than 175,010 EHP while remaining useful and not stupidly expensive. By that I mean the following: Must have a prop mod and a point. Must have at least 2 damage mods. May only use T1 rigs and T2 modules. No implants, no boosters, no wormhole effects.
175,010 EHP was achieved using an Abaddon, implants and a booster will take this fit to 392,320 WHP.
|

Cambarus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
247
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 19:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Paikis wrote: The comment in regards to buffer fits is simply not true. There are some shield resist bonused hulls that can pull it off against non-resist bonused armour hulls, but as a general rule, armour tanks will have bigger buffers.
I said that shield tanks are on par with armor tanks, not that they have the same EHP. What you lose in EHP on armor you gain in damage + passive regen. The speed difference is also something you can't neglect. Your dual 1600 triple trimark abaddon moves a whopping 671 m/s with its MWD on, and 98m/s with it off. You took one of the biggest brick tanked ships in the game, slapped the biggest brick tank you could fit on it, then laughed and said "see, armor makes a better brick tank than shields!"
Have a look at eve-kills top 20 page, the top 2 ships are both shield buffer ships, and 9 of the top 20 are mainly shield buffer fit (with only 4 being mainly armor fit, and the rest being used with both)
Shield tanking isn't better in terms of raw buffer, but it is still just as good as a form of tanking, because you gain a lot from what you lose in raw EHP. If you need more evidence of this you need only look at gallente, whose slot layouts, and often times bonuses, are geared towards armor tanking, but who more often than not shield tank. |

Paikis
Vapour Holdings
544
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 20:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Here we go again, the same rubbish, debunked, fallacious arguments as every other thread. Tell you what, I can't be bothered telling you why you're wrong, so you just keep on bleating like the good little sheep you are, and I'll go do something productive with my time. |

ColdCutz
Frigonometry
74
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 20:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:175,010 EHP was achieved using an Abaddon, implants and a booster will take this fit to 392,320 WHP.
What's your fit look like for that Abaddon. |

Cambarus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
247
|
Posted - 2013.01.15 20:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
ColdCutz wrote:Cambarus wrote:175,010 EHP was achieved using an Abaddon, implants and a booster will take this fit to 392,320 WHP.
What's your fit look like for that Abaddon. That was paikis fit, not mine, but it was pretty easy to figure out: 2 1600s, 3 trimarks, 2 EANMs and a DCII. Rest of the fit to taste.
Paikis wrote:Here we go again, the same rubbish, debunked, fallacious arguments as every other thread. Tell you what, I can't be bothered telling you why you're wrong, so you just keep on bleating like the good little sheep you are, and I'll go do something productive with my time. I could have easily said the same thing about what you said, because hoo boy is the "but armor gets a 1600 plate so it must be better!" one old/stupid. But I didn't. I explained why you were wrong, because really why would you bother posting at all on the forums if you're not looking to talk about crap like this? If you're going to leave then leave, but I doubt anyone has ever changed someone's mind about a balance issue by throwing their hands in the air and leaving. |

Sam Korak
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 10:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Marc Callan wrote:Sam Korak wrote:Real men hull tank. Well, Taranis pilots, Orca pilots, and maybe some Dominix pilots hull tank. (Seriously, is there a subcapital beyond those three that can actually pull off a hull tank?)
I hull tank my Kestrel.
But now something more about topic: IF they removed distinctions between Shield and Armor tanking that would RUIN the game, because when everything is the same, everything is s***.
So stop complaining. |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
445
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 11:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Roime wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:A post suggesting that Armor is superior to shields and that needs to be fixed..
What bizzaro world have i stepped into now? One example of things young pilots learn in the Royal Amarr Institute, and our other prestigious universities. The empires of New Eden are poor, and they can't hire lecturers or even tutors, so they are mostly places where they young go to chat about TV series and what they are currently eating, while they work on the local asteroid fields for minimum wage. And repeat memes like parrots, and tell urban myths to each others are raw facts- they heard it on the campus. Some run meaningless errands for exploiters they call "Agents", who feed them with a drug called "Goldfish". Goldfish causes short-term memory loss and dullness of mind, making it possible for "Agents" to send their victims to rescue the damsel for two hundred times without these poor students realizing that they are just being leeched from their time, social ties and possibilities for career advancement for tiny reward. Educational system is the basis of any civilized society, and it is in critical state in New Eden.
What are you smoking and more importantly can i have some?
|

LordSpock
Vherokior Death Squad
54
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 11:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cambarus wrote: The navy domi, nightmare, vargur and mach all shield tank (at least if you want them to be any good) and pretty much everything else is meh for missions. This is to be more or less expected though, given that ewar is of little use in pve and damage projection is much more useful.
To the OP: Shields have so many advantages that despite the fact that they only go up to LSEs they're still pretty much on par with armor tanking in buffer fits. This becomes more obvious as you start looking up ship fittings, and notice that, particularly among the smaller ships, anything with more than 3 mids tends to shield tank.
Active tanking is another issue altogether, and shields need a nerf in that area (or better yet armor needs a buff, active tanking has been rather lackluster for a while now)
Please provide me with good Navy Domi shieldfit. I have no idea what to do with my omnidirectionals in such a fit. One, two, none. Also not sure what to put in low slots as I don't think a fourth drone damage amplifier is the way to go.
|

Roime
Shiva Furnace
1659
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 11:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Put the Omnidirectionals in the mid slots, and fill remaining low slots with magstabs and tracking enhancers (over half of Domi damage comes from guns).
Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
1659
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 11:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
What are you smoking and more importantly can i have some?
It's called trollweed, and it starts to grow in your head if you read these forums long enough.
Shiva Furnace is recruiting! Small gang PVP in wormholes and lowsec. |

Cambarus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
247
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
LordSpock wrote: Please provide me with good Navy Domi shieldfit. I have no idea what to do with my omnidirectionals in such a fit. One, two, none. Also not sure what to put in low slots as I don't think a fourth drone damage amplifier is the way to go.
Here is the fit I use for level 4s (actually my fit has changed slightly since then, faction omnis and SMCs instead of CCCs) It uses crystals mind you, and my skills are very close to perfect for it, so YMMV, but tbh in 90% of missions I don't even use the SB, so you can probably get away with not having them. If you're using the domi and only using drones, use a gila or a rattler instead. The domi gets literally half of its DPS out of guns, and it's a huge waste to only use one of its bonuses.
I would say that the Ndonmi is literally the best lvl 4 runner out there, provided you can run mainly kin/therm missions. It does the DPS of a nightmare with multifreq at the range of a NM with scorch (or even a little farther), the thing's a beast. |

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
417
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
So many people seem to forget that armor buffer needs to be bigger as a heavy armor tank turns your ship into a brick, very slow and very easy to hit. Plus armor does not regenerate like shields do.
Take for example the ever OP Drake. It can fit a shield buffer up to about 100k ehp. But what makes it such a beast is that with such a huge buffer it can get over 200hp/s regen. That is equal to an X-large booster running non stop without the cap requirements. It only takes a little over 8 minutes for it to regen 100,000hp. So if the fight lasts 8 minutes you effectively have 200k ehp.
Sure an armor tank can get well over 100k ehp, but there is no regen on that. For active tanked fits armor repairers are slower than Shield boosters, plus there is no X-large armor repairer mod.
If they are going to add an X-large Shield extender then they better also add a X-large armor repairer, and make armor regenerate.
The only advantage armor tanking has is for PVP, and only because it makes it much easier to fit tackle mods.
Shields are already better than armor for most situations, aside from cap warfare. Even suggesting that armor tanking is OP shows a complete lack of knowledge in this game. |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
448
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 17:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Seriously if anyone in here thinks shields are underpowered you are Incredibly, INCREDIBLY BAD..
Just sayin.. |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
479
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 21:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Seriously if anyone in here thinks shields are underpowered you are Incredibly, INCREDIBLY BAD..
Just sayin..
This and also +10 Cambarus.
|

XxRTEKxX
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
46
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 07:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
To get more hp than a single LSE can provide on its own, you should consider how many cycles a booster must go through to surpass the hp of a LSE. The way i see it, a booster will get you more hp than a LSE if you can survive enough cycles. If that makes any sense. KIL2 explains it better in his Bringing Solo Back podcasts when comparing buffer and active tanking.
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