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Astratus
The Temporary Agency
0
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Posted - 2013.01.16 13:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
I'm thinking of getting a t3 cruiser.
Just wanted to ask if proteus is viable for hisec exploration (and later in lowsec) and if it is if someone has a decent fit (all in 1 swiss army knife fit). I know that the tengu is better but it takes too long for me to train for at this point in time.
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Dzajic
94
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Posted - 2013.01.16 14:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
You can do highsec explo in Ishkur. So yeah. If you want fastest time in all sites just go for Tengu. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
312
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Posted - 2013.01.16 15:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Proteus is *second best* imo for exploration. I use one frequently, and it works, BUT: Limited midslots... you will need to carry your electronics mods in cargo and dock up to switch fittings out. I don't have my fitting available, but it uses drones (20 lights), railguns, sisters gear, active repper, specific resist mods. |
Leetha Layne
54
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Posted - 2013.01.16 16:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Proteus works fine in High Sec. |
Vince Snetterton
240
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Posted - 2013.01.17 07:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Leetha Layne wrote:Proteus works fine in High Sec.
The gun version does. The drone version is toast, as the many frigs in a low end anom trash drones in seconds. |
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
32
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Posted - 2013.01.17 11:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just to put it in context. highsec exploration is a joke, you are better off doing lvl 3 missions for an income. any ship that can run a lvl 3 will probably able to do high sec exploration.
/Princess |
Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2013.01.17 11:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Princess Saskia wrote:Just to put it in context. highsec exploration is a joke, you are better off doing lvl 3 missions for an income. any ship that can run a lvl 3 will probably able to do high sec exploration.
/Princess
Yeah ^ this. You wont have anny issue highsec exploration in a proteus. It will do your lowsec stuff as well. Get used to switching out the mods in stations- its part of the beauty of the T3 and what makes it so versatile. Well worth the investment for exploration. |
LordSpock
Vherokior Death Squad
55
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Princess Saskia wrote:Just to put it in context. highsec exploration is a joke, you are better off doing lvl 3 missions for an income. any ship that can run a lvl 3 will probably able to do high sec exploration.
/Princess
True if income is all you care about. But.....some people enjoy exploration for the fact of possible 'discoveries'. The thrill of getting that faction/commanderspawn and opening the wreck hoping for juicy items. That said, a well fitted AF might do the trick as well although the lack fitting capabilities the T3's offer. And yes when flying a T3 you might consider going for that extra bit of thrill, not only to find stuff, but also the possibility to be attacked when flying in low sec. |
dexington
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
539
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Posted - 2013.01.17 12:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Princess Saskia wrote:highsec exploration is a joke, you are better off doing lvl 3 missions for an income.
You can make good isk exploring in hi-sec, if you are doing it right. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |
Astratus
The Temporary Agency
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks to all for their coments. Just another quick question do i go blaster or rail? I like the idea of drones tho I'm not sure how they will work with the new NPC AI.
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Fon SaiHoc
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.01.17 14:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Princess Saskia wrote:Just to put it in context. highsec exploration is a joke, you are better off doing lvl 3 missions for an income. any ship that can run a lvl 3 will probably able to do high sec exploration.
/Princess
I have ran 5/10 complexes in highsec resulting from expeditions, i can run lvl 3 mission in a cyclone, will a cyclone be able to run a 5/10 complex? Being max skilled in shiled tanking, i would say no.
Also, a note from someone who enjoys exploration and does not enjoy running missions : These two are completely different... when you run a mission its always the same, you are given the mission and you always know previously what will be your reward. Exploration is the opposite, nothing is given, you have to find things for yourself, you never know what you will find and when you find something you never know what you will get from it.
To the author of this thread, i send you an advice regarding EVE and life in general, which you may choose to considerate or not. And the advice is this, when someone tries to convince you to not do something or not follow a path you feel inclined to or enchanted with, smile, nod, and go do whatever you had decided to do. If a rock would speak, it would tell you not to do anything or move at all, so that you would not be more than a rock either.
o7 Fon |
Talemecus Valta
The Scope Gallente Federation
95
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fon SaiHoc wrote:Princess Saskia wrote:Just to put it in context. highsec exploration is a joke, you are better off doing lvl 3 missions for an income. any ship that can run a lvl 3 will probably able to do high sec exploration.
/Princess I have ran 5/10 complexes in highsec resulting from expeditions, i can run lvl 3 mission in a cyclone, will a cyclone be able to run a 5/10 complex? Being max skilled in shiled tanking, i would say no. Also, a note from someone who enjoys exploration and does not enjoy running missions : These two are completely different... when you run a mission its always the same, you are given the mission and you always know previously what will be your reward. Exploration is the opposite, nothing is given, you have to find things for yourself, you never know what you will find and when you find something you never know what you will get from it. To the author of this thread, i send you an advice regarding EVE and life in general, which you may choose to considerate or not. And the advice is this, when someone tries to convince you to not do something or not follow a path you feel inclined to or enchanted with, smile, nod, and go do whatever you had decided to do. If a rock would speak, it would tell you not to do anything or move at all, so that you would not be more than a rock either. o7 Fon
Exploration is far better then mission running.
Sure you might get nothing one day and loads the next, but that's the fun in Exploration.
As for your ships, go for what you like, your the one flying it and scanning down stuff.
I fly a Vexor, but plan on getting a Myrmiddon when I have enough money, failing that, a ship with lots of slots for lots of things.
Only 40 rounds per gun... I hate reloading in the middle!
I'll make it through each day, Singing DEATH OR GLORY!!!! |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1058
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Posted - 2013.01.17 15:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Proteus will work. Ishtar is better. The only thing the proteus wins is the scanning sub. |
Kilrayn
Caldari Provisions
208
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Posted - 2013.01.17 18:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
The combat sites in emprie are highly competitive. Unless you like getting passed by T3s all the time, T3 is the way to go. I say T3 and not a specific T3 because any of them are suitable (I use both a tengu and proti myself, switch when i get bored of one or the other)
The isk is out there, you just have to be the first to the can "Music is a mysterious thing. Sometimes itn++ makes people remember things they do not expect. Many thoughts, feelings, memories... things almost forgotten... Regardless of whether the listener desires to remember or not." - Citan Uzuki, Xenogears |
dexington
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
541
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Posted - 2013.01.18 07:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kilrayn wrote:The isk is out there, you just have to be the first to the can
Which actually is the biggest problem flying the proteus, it's not really a very fast cruiser. If you are doing exploration in a heavy populated area, the cynabal or vigilant are both good choices. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
61
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Posted - 2013.01.18 09:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:Leetha Layne wrote:Proteus works fine in High Sec. The gun version does. The drone version is toast, as the many frigs in a low end anom trash drones in seconds. Not true.
I've been using drone Prot for hisec plexes and it's very far from being toast. Drones occasionally take aggro but it's nothing they can't shake off (I'm talking about Serpentis Narcotics Warehouse, with 20 or 30 frigs per room) and if you need heavy power there are sentries which can deal 600 dps at range. |
LordSpock
Vherokior Death Squad
56
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Posted - 2013.01.18 09:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:Leetha Layne wrote:Proteus works fine in High Sec. The gun version does. The drone version is toast, as the many frigs in a low end anom trash drones in seconds. Not true. I've been using drone Prot for hisec plexes and it's very far from being toast. Drones occasionally take aggro but it's nothing they can't shake off (I'm talking about Serpentis Narcotics Warehouse, with 20 or 30 frigs per room) and if you need heavy power there are sentries which can deal 600 dps at range.
Maybe I'm using the wrong subs, but with the drone sub I only get 75 bandwith. That is just 3 sentries you can use. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
61
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Posted - 2013.01.18 09:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
LordSpock wrote: Maybe I'm using the wrong subs, but with the drone sub I only get 75 bandwith. That is just 3 sentries you can use.
There's Augmented Capacitor for that. |
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
32
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Posted - 2013.01.18 09:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
With regards to using the drone subsystem on the proteus. Yes most pve involves using sentries. but using sentries on a proteus that needs to be close to its targets to apply damage you'd be full on special ****** to use sentries. You'd have to keep collecting them each time. Way to convinence yourself. |
dexington
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
541
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Posted - 2013.01.18 09:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Princess Saskia wrote:With regards to using the drone subsystem on the proteus. Yes most pve involves using sentries
not in hi-sec. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |
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hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
61
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Posted - 2013.01.18 10:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Princess Saskia wrote:With regards to using the drone subsystem on the proteus. Yes most pve involves using sentries. but using sentries on a proteus that needs to be close to its targets to apply damage you'd be full on special ****** to use sentries. You'd have to keep collecting them each time. Way to convinence yourself. You need to be close if you use blasters. And for that reason I use rails. In this setup guns play secondary role anyway.
Also use of sentries is situational. I use them mostly for killing structures and popping overseers. For everything else Hobgoblins and Hammerheads do their job just fine. |
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 14:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
^^^ this guy knows what he is talking about :)
The obv answer to the OP question is, all T3s are viable for high and low sec exploration.
As to the Proteus I would even go as far as saying that it's actually is as good as the Tengu. And I find it more efficient than the Loki (which I also fly extensively). It's obviously most effective against Guristas ands Serpentis, fittng just a repper and one specific nano (kin for Guristas, therm for Serpentis) will let you tank an entire 4/10 room without any problems. But it will do fine against other pirate factions too.
And this is why I consider the Proteus a match for the Tengu:
[Proteus, GSO Racer] Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Corelum C-Type Energized Kinetic Membrane Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Tracking Enhancer II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Gistum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M 250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M 250mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Uranium Charge M Salvager II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I Drone Link Augmentor I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Garde II x4 Hornet II x5
Depending on your drone skills, this baby does up to 740 DPS at ~49km optimal, meaning it can compete even with substantially gank-heavy Tengus in the race for the can (and will win every time if the Tengu is not fitted/skilled for max or close to max DPS). In a Loki, I never stood a chance.
(and if you are an adventurous kind, the MWD will let you steal the loot with impunity even if the Tengu gets the kill )
Like the poster above me said, use Gardes at a distance (structures, overseers, cruisers orbiting at 35km etc). Your light drones will **** everything else (including short range cruisers, not that Guristas have those) just set them loose with aggresive on, focused fire off, making sure you get the aggro 1st of course.
For regular "for fun" exploration just swap one or both Navy Omnis for codebreaker/analyzer. (Edit: and you might also want to swap the MWD for an AB, as MWDs don't work in 3/10s) |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
61
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Posted - 2013.01.19 16:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Very nice setup is this of yours, Funky. I use quite similar one though with some crucial differences.
About comparing to Tengu I don't have much data. I've been in contest only once and incidentally I've won ;), though it may have been only sheer luck.
I think that Omnis are terrible things to waste so I'd remove only one. As hisec is concerned Analyzers are not necessary due to low value of Magneto sites. And in Serpentis space MWD works in 3/10 so if there's one which forbids use then maybe it's an omission from CCP's side and friendly petition should be in order. |
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
1
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Posted - 2013.01.19 17:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote: About comparing to Tengu I don't have much data. I've been in contest only once and incidentally I've won ;), though it may have been only sheer luck.
In Gurista space these races actually happen quite often. I'd say as many as 1 in 5 of 4/10s I find in the peak hours are contested, occasionally by more than 2 people ;)
I just got tired of losing them to them newbs in Tengus, and this setup is my pretty specialized response ;). Tengus actually start off with a pretty big advantage over all the other T3s which is especially telling in GSOs - not only do they deal excellent ranged damage with their bonused Scourges, but they additionally compound it by burning towards the overseer structure. No close range boat can compete with that (not even a 1700m/s MWD Loki), so going sniper/sentry seemed the only answer.
Quote: I think that Omnis are terrible things to waste so I'd remove only one. As hisec is concerned Analyzers are not necessary due to low value of Magneto sites. And in Serpentis space MWD works in 3/10 so if there's one which forbids use then maybe it's an omission from CCP's side and friendly petition should be in order.
I basically agree about the omnis ;). I am 100% sure MWD doesn't work in Angel 3/10, not sure about the others, I just assummed it's the same everywhere (and I skip 3/10s in Gursitas space nowadyas, I find them rather tedious and the only really good drop is pretty rare).
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dexington
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
541
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Posted - 2013.01.20 06:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Funky Koval wrote:No close range boat can compete with that (not even a 1700m/s MWD Loki), so going sniper/sentry seemed the only answer.
If you want to do exploration in a proteus in high populated hi-sec systems, it's not a bad idea to get some snake implants or Overdrive Injector System II.
Fitting 4 drone damage upgrades is not worth it compared to using overdrive injector, which brings a mwd proteus to 1800 km/s and 2567 km/s overloaded, also using 1 T2 rigs you can get to 1937 km/s and 2762 overloaded. With a full set of snakes, overdrive injector and T2 rig, the mwd proteus is at 2416 km/s and 3445 km/s overloaded.
Speed is close to being as important as dps, and much more important then tank, after all a T1 cruiser can tank full room aggro in a 4/10
Funky Koval wrote:I am 100% sure MWD doesn't work in Angel 3/10, not sure about the others, I just assummed it's the same everywhere (and I skip 3/10s in Gursitas space nowadyas, I find them rather tedious and the only really good drop is pretty rare).
Never hurts to have a afterburner in the cargohold, there is a good chance you have a station in the same system making it easy to swap out the mwd. GÇ£The best way to keep something bad from happening is to see it ahead of time, and you can't see it if you refuse to face the possibility.GÇ¥ |
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
1
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Posted - 2013.01.20 10:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
dexington wrote:Fitting 4 drone damage upgrades is not worth it compared to using overdrive injector, which brings a mwd proteus to 1800 km/s and 2567 km/s overloaded, also using 1 T2 rigs you can get to 1937 km/s and 2762 overloaded. With a full set of snakes, overdrive injector and T2 rig, the mwd proteus is at 2416 km/s and 3445 km/s overloaded.
Speed is close to being as important as dps, and much more important then tank, after all a T1 cruiser can tank full room aggro in a 4/10
For a blasterboat, yes. But then, even doing 3500 m/s it will take you 15s+ to bring your blasters in effective range (you need a few sec to accelerate after all). By that time a good Tengu pilot will have fired 8-10k worth of missile damage, putting you way behind (and out of the contest, really).
Ranged dps is by far the most important factor in this case IMO.
In my mind the MWD is there mostly to safeguard against the other guy stealing the loot (not that it has happened to me yet, but yeah, that possibility exists and it being EVE is bound to happen at some point I guess)
But like I said, this build is designed with that one particular scenario in mind. In geneeral, there's obviously nothing wrong with exploring in a blasterboat Proteus, nor with switching a damage mod for an overdrive.
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
1716
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Posted - 2013.01.20 12:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Confirming sentry Ishtar and Proteus will win a GSO against a Tengu every time
Both can also be fitted with neuts, point and explosive drones if you feel like harvesting the Tengus as well :)
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
azumi las
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.01.20 20:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Funky Koval wrote:dexington wrote:Fitting 4 drone damage upgrades is not worth it compared to using overdrive injector, which brings a mwd proteus to 1800 km/s and 2567 km/s overloaded, also using 1 T2 rigs you can get to 1937 km/s and 2762 overloaded. With a full set of snakes, overdrive injector and T2 rig, the mwd proteus is at 2416 km/s and 3445 km/s overloaded.
Speed is close to being as important as dps, and much more important then tank, after all a T1 cruiser can tank full room aggro in a 4/10
For a blasterboat, yes. But then, even doing 3500 m/s it will take you 15s+ to bring your blasters in effective range (you need a few sec to accelerate after all). By that time a good Tengu pilot will have fired 8-10k worth of missile damage, putting you way behind (and out of the contest, really). Ranged dps is by far the most important factor in this case IMO. In my mind the MWD is there mostly to safeguard against the other guy stealing the loot (not that it has happened to me yet, but yeah, that possibility exists and it being EVE is bound to happen at some point I guess ) But like I said, this fit is designed with that one particular scenario in mind. In general, there's obviously nothing wrong with exploring in a blasterboat Proteus (nor with switching a damage mod for an overdrive ;).
You can't explore in guristas space on cookie cutter T3 fits, take it from someone that is on the other side of the fence and steal loot from people all the time. The most important thing is to be faster than the other dude, that's it. It doesn't need to be overkill to the point of using snakes and that kind of ****, you just need to be faster, period. When the can is contested, who does the most damage doesn't matter, what matter is who gets to the can faster. The only thing high dps does for an explorer is finish an uncontested site faster, that's it, nothing else.
I explore on a 160 dps ship and the only time I lost a contested can was when I derped and tried to loot the can 3 times before realizing I had safeties on. Sure it takes me 10 minutes to finish a 4/10 on my own, but for me it is more than worth it to have almost guaranteed chance of having the loot in the end should someone come in and try to get it(and they will).
The only scenario(on a 4/10) where a T3 can compete with any faster ship for the loot is if it gets in range of the can before going all out on the telescope trying to get the loot rights like all the morons do. Even then a lot of things can happen, I've seen people do that on their 700dps tengus just to warp out before destroying the telescope because they can't handle the dps while sitting still so yeah. |
Funky Koval
Bad Artists
2
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Posted - 2013.01.20 22:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
I get what you are saying, but believe me, for every guy like you there are probably 20 people exploring in Tengus and 10 who do it in other T3s/HACs.
EDIT: actually you should know that already, cause they are the guys you steal from, right? /EDIT
So yeah, if we happen to bump into each other, you'll likely make it away with the loot, but in the meantime I will be happy to win 20 races against the other guys (who don't even think about stealing, nor do they usually even have a MWD fitted).
Like so many things in this game,. it's a percentages game and I'd rather focus on what's more important.
Having said that, I just might actually fit that overdrive, seems that I am pretty comfortable winning them DPS races as is, anyway.
BTW, this Proteus fit needs the Omnis, but in Sansha space I have an armor tanked Loki that has 2 mid slots basically free, so I am just gonna fit a point/web and see if I can get any luck with that ;). Not that Sansha space is so hotly contested tho. |
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