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RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2406
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Posted - 2013.01.17 06:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Bump manufacturing fees in highsec. If my estimates are correct, changing it from the current negligible system to a mere quarter percent of estimated value of the production job is worth upwards of 3-6T isk/month in sinks while having negligible effects on the sale price of items between players.
But then I might have to actually start tracking my manufacturing fees and including them in my spreadsheets. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
Guess Who's Back. -á Back Again. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2406
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Posted - 2013.01.17 08:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Candy Oshea wrote:this is what happens when a mechanical engineer argues with ecomonics major's isn't it I'm a mechanical engineer too. What's your problem? RubyPorto wrote:mynnna wrote:Bump manufacturing fees in highsec. If my estimates are correct, changing it from the current negligible system to a mere quarter percent of estimated value of the production job is worth upwards of 3-6T isk/month in sinks while having negligible effects on the sale price of items between players. But then I might have to actually start tracking my manufacturing fees and including them in my spreadsheets. Pfft. 375k on a 150m isk ship. Cry me a river.
I'm going to sit in the Alps and cry you a Rhine. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
Guess Who's Back. -á Back Again. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2406
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Posted - 2013.01.17 10:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Candy Oshea wrote:Kithran wrote: Short answer no.
As with the situation where a ship is destroyed when someone buys a plex with real money then sells it there is no real change in the amount of isk in game - the person who sold the plex personally has gained (say) 560 million isk however at the same time the person who bought that plex has lost 560 million.
There is in fact a very minor decrease in total isk in game due to market fees.
Kithran
Thanks for your answer. little confused on why your saying 'short anwser no' though, agree with what you had written above as its essentially the same as the last paragraph of what i wrote?
Nope. Because you called it a faucet.
ISK Faucets are places where ISK enters the Economy (ISK is created by NPCs and given to players). ISK Sinks are places where ISK leaves the Economy (ISK is destroyed by Players giving it to NPCs).
Trades between players are neither sinks nor faucets. So except for the minor sink of Broker Fees/Taxes, PLEX is in no way a Sink or Faucet. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
Guess Who's Back. -á Back Again. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2411
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Posted - 2013.01.18 03:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Yes, but it didn't really have any effect on non-PLEX commodities, or if it did that effect was buried under everything else (rise and fall of minerals, tech, etc). That's my point - PLEX is the only item in Eve that responds in any perceptible way to that sort of inflationary pressure.
But the increase in PLEX prices is the prime indicator of inflation, and is entirely caused by the Free tech moon and free T2 BPO ISK faucets. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
Guess Who's Back. -á Back Again. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2411
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Posted - 2013.01.18 06:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: Back to sinks & faucets: something that really disturbed me was the ISK sink reductions of FW tiers (75%)which once where taken out had an immediate effect on PLEX prices. Further more I still argue that in the long term (2 years) those ISK reductions per item will have a net negitive in the LP sink eventhough in the short term alot of ISK was taken out of the economy.
Your earlier post discussing replacing mission reward ISK with LP has merit but due to the lingering effects of reduced ISK LP from the FW bonanza LP value is espeically suffering. A way to counter that would be addition of new valuable LP items. Furthermore the FW LP bonanza had a very definite deflationary effect on items such as Fleet Issue stabbers and probably all faction ammos except Amar faction crystals.
I'm mildly curious how much the FW bonanza contributed to deflation too.
FW Tiers did nothing to alter the "sinkiness" of an LP. Tier 1: 1000 LP + 1000 ISK = 1 Item. => 1000 ISK sunk for 1000 LP. Tier 5: 250LP + 1000 ISK = 1 Item => 1000LP + 1000 ISK = 4 Items. => 1000 ISK sunk or 1000 LP.
Each LP takes the same amount of ISK down the drain with it when it's used, and I didn't see any evidence of high tiers resulting in massive hoards of unspent LP being socked away because "I only needed the one item."
The market value of the resulting item is entirely irrelevant to the amount of ISK that LP stores sink.
The price of a product decreasing because the cost to produce that product has decreased is not "deflation," it's the normal workings of the market. Just like cruiser prices didn't rise (aren't rising) after Retribution because of "inflation," they rose (are rising) because the cost to produce them has increased. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
Guess Who's Back. -á Back Again. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2411
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Posted - 2013.01.18 07:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Malarky 4 items where introduced where there was 1 before for the same price as 1. Unless demand is perfectly elastic we're looking at a significant ISK sink reduction over time. I would not doubt that there is some elasticity found in cheaper FW items but I think its fairly rigid
The only way that the normal amount of ISK would not be sunk would is if there are enormous LP stockpiles left uncashed as LP.
I've seen nothing that even hints that this is the case.
If demand were inelastic, prices on +5s would have quickly fallen to just over their Tier 5 ISK cost as people tried to sell their surplus to a saturated market. But even then, it wouldn't matter because the ISK is sunk when you redeem the LP, so the only possible reduction in sinkyness is if Tier5 causes people to not redeem their LP.
You've had this debate with mynnna/corestwo before. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=131752
Once again, the only way that tier 5 could make LP less sinky is if people decided, en masse, upon hitting Tier 5 "Nah, I'm not going to bother redeeming my LP, I'm just going to let it rot in my journal." Where's your evidence that this happened at all, let alone to any significant extent? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
Guess Who's Back. -á Back Again. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2415
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Posted - 2013.01.18 16:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:RubyPorto wrote: If demand were inelastic,
Show me how consumer demand for implants has increased? or especially why it will in the future?
Doesn't matter. The ISK is sunk at the point of item creation. What happens to the item later is irrelevant.
Higher tiers can result in less ISK being sunk IFF (if and only if) large amounts of LP are left unconverted. You have yet to make a cogent argument for why you think that people reached Tier 5 and said "eh, I really only wanted 1 +5 implant, not 50." This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2415
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Posted - 2013.01.18 16:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote: Your numbers are a bit off though, the old formula looked more like: Tier 1: 4000 LP + 4000 ISK = 1 item Tier 2: 2000 LP + 2000 ISK = 1 item Tier 3: 1000 LP + 1000 ISK = 1 item Tier 4: 500 LP + 500 ISK = 1 item Tier 5: 250 LP + 250 ISK = 1 item
That is why people cashed out at T5 or if desperate T4. It's why the new tiers don't change either the LP or ISK in the stores, only how much LP you gain for doing tasks. You could easily make 4000 isk/lp in the old system, while now 1000+isk/lp is great*.
*Haven't looked at the prices across the entire market recently, but that's what it was last I looked. Of course, some items might still give high payouts, I'm talking general items without crashing the market.
The specific numbers don't matter. All that matters is the fact that the ratio of ISK sunk to LP converted stays constant within any given LP store offer. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2416
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Posted - 2013.01.18 20:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:So demand doesn't matter?
Not in a discussion the amount of ISK sunk via LP stores, unless you are claiming that significant amounts of LP were left unredeemed to prevent over-supply.
Do you have anything to present that suggests that any significant amount of LP was left unredeemed? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2430
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Posted - 2013.01.20 05:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:CSM minutes wrote: Dr.EyjoG repeated his statement from FanFest 2012 that the sinks and faucets in the game are not correct (which is relevant to the previous discussion) and pulled up a chart demonstrating this. By far the largest faucet in the game is NPC Bounty Prizes, at over 30T ISK/month. The biggest sink is Skill Books, at a mere 6T ISK/month.
compare that to http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.htmlAs a sink skill books have dropped from ~7trillion to 6 as the highest sink ergo lp sink has dropped to under 6 trillion even with the FW lp summer bonanza to probably under 6 trillion from last year February's 6.2 trillion!
Fanfest 2012 was in late March, Two-Step's blog post was from March. The Faction Warfare button orbiting started with Inferno, in May.
You're comparing 2 numbers from March and claiming that one represents the state of affairs after May, when a patch that is known to have caused a massive increase in LP store usage was released in May.
Or, if Dr. EyjoG was talking about the current state of affairs, you're talking about ISK sunk by LP stores before and after Button-gate, with no information about the amount of ISK sunk during button-gate.
March... April... May...
Anyway, got any evidence to suggest that people were leaving LP unredeemed to support your assertion that the Tier system resulted in less ISK sunk at high tier? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
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RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2447
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Posted - 2013.01.22 14:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Donnero wrote:Lets take Concord and Our friendly insurance company work together. No payout for insurance who was destroyed by Concord. The insurance shouldnt be in the caulation if you gank or not.
Hi there.
This might interest you. Please take note of the date, November 29, 2011. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2451
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Posted - 2013.01.23 04:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Starbase charters (those things used as part of the fuel load for hisec POSes) are available from most NPC LP stores. Which charters are you thinking of?
And they cost no ISK when purchased from any LP stores. So they have no ISK sinking effect. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2451
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Posted - 2013.01.23 06:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Now, if they added 500 or 1000 ISK/charter to the cost, we might be getting somewhere.
Making the offer 100k ISK + 500 LP would add 1000 ISK to their cost. (50% for Caldari in Jita)
Every HS POS needs one every hour, so each HS POS would sink... 672k ISK/month. That's not so impressive, actually. And increasing the ISK sink to something significant (10m/month, say) would quickly render it virtually indistinguishable from an NPC sold good, since the LP cost becomes inconsequential.
From the look of it (eyballing the market chart with a scientific WAG), about 100k caldari charters are sold in Jita every day. Assuming none of them are sold twice, and the same volumes occur on the other 5 racial charters, that 1k isk/unit ISK cost would amonut to 500m ISK/day or 15b a month.
Raising the sink/POS to 10m/month (adding 15k ISK/unit) would increase that total sink to 7.5b/day or 225b a month, which is starting to get to something noticeable on the grand stage, I think.
And the LP store offer would look like: 1.5m ISK + 500 LP gets 100 Charters. Which actually might not be bad. It breaks wildly from the 1000 ISK per LP trend of LP stores, but I don't think I care about that. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2451
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Posted - 2013.01.23 20:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Upon reading the DEV blog on bounties I realized that they had not mentioned a 1 time ISK sink: The retirement of the old bounties. I wonder if that was in the trillions.
I doubt it. I suspect that it only turned the soft sink of bounties on retired players into a hard sink.
I bet most of the active players with large bounties cashed in their bounties with an alt. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2708
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Posted - 2013.02.14 04:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:mynnna wrote:If he wants to be derisive and condescending, I reserve the right to be derisive and condescending in return. Two wrongs...
Are more fun than one. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2708
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Posted - 2013.02.14 04:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Number of kills is a poor metric. One player in high sec running level 1s might kill hundreds of rats, but never equal the bounty total from one null rat. I'm sure the bounty total is higher in high sec, but CCP has never broken down the bounties by sec status as far as i know, at least not recently.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Lonetrek#npc24
Yeah, all 200,000 NPC kills in Karnola today are from newbies running Level 1s. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2716
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Posted - 2013.02.15 19:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Plus in RL you don't necessarily have a "positive expectation" on money.
I would say that a bigger chunk of that is the fact that, in RL, people have to eat*. In EVE, not so much.
*to include food, housing, medicine, etc. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2718
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Posted - 2013.02.15 20:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Plus in RL you don't necessarily have a "positive expectation" on money. I would say that a bigger chunk of that is the fact that, in RL, people have to eat*. In EVE, not so much. *to include food, housing, medicine, etc. Yet despite the obvious need to eat, in RL we don't necessarily have positive expectation, which leads to wars, starvations etc. In EvE not only we don't care of those bodily needs but we have easy ISK spilling out of nowhere.
I think you misunderstood me. I was agreeing that we don't necessarily have a "positive expectation" on money in RL, just disagreeing on the prime causes. Which could be because I'm thinking about a different meaning of the term than you. I don't know. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2733
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Posted - 2013.02.16 18:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:mynnna wrote: You'd be insane to think that it didn't increase some, it was a massive farmer goldrush. Pilot population was 2-3x what it is now in FW.
It was 1/4 the ISK sink at tier 5. There is a reason Dr E ain't showing the numbers... Dr E show us the money!
You're on this claim again.
Where is your evidence for massive stockpiles of unspent LP caused by gaining high tier (literally the only case where high tier results in less ISK being sunk)? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2737
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Posted - 2013.02.16 20:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Oh boy, here we go again.
Darth Nefarious: "Four Quarters is less than 1 Dollar" This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2738
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Posted - 2013.02.16 22:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
You're on this claim again.
Where is your evidence for massive stockpiles of unspent LP caused by gaining high tier (literally the only case where high tier results in less ISK being sunk)?
My evidence is from the CSM notes the skill books are stated to be down to near 6 trillion sink a month and are the #1 ISK sink and compare that to CCP Diagoras last publishing of the LP store ISK sink which was 6.3 trillion a month.
So, data about months where FW tier didn't affect the way the LP store sunk ISK is your evidence for FW players leaving, for no rational reason, massive piles of LP unredeemed when reaching high tiers?
I'm sorry, what?
Fanfest 2012 was before the FW changes. Two Step's blog was also before the FW changes. December 2012 is over a month after the late October nerf (blame November. It's always a terrible month.). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2739
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Posted - 2013.02.17 00:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:I do wish that the label of that chart was labeled September, October, or November 2012 but here we have hard numbers (evidence) that the LP Store sink has fallen from nearly a year ago. The most likely culprit was the FW insanity over the summer. Dr E if you are reading this do you want to pipe in?
The primary nerf hit at the end of October.
You're looking at either November or December's numbers and claiming they represent a time when FW operated under entirely different mechanics.
Where is your evidence that FW people looked at what they could do with their LP at Tier 5 and said "Nah, I don't want to convert this massive pile of LP before it converts into 4 times less stuff"? Hell, I'll settle for a coherent argument for why they would want to leave huge amounts of LP unredeemed. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2743
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Posted - 2013.02.18 06:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Candy Oshea wrote:Thread needs more monocles, only ruby looks distinguished enough amongst these wallflowers.
I noticed that I had made enough just from flipping Monocles in Jita to buy one. So I thought it fitting to keep one for myself.
Plus, it does look nice. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2743
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Posted - 2013.02.18 06:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
corestwo wrote:This coat > a monocle. Sorry.
For some reason, that coat reminds me of the Cloak of Baulderan icon from Baldur's Gate 1. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2824
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Posted - 2013.02.22 17:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mikhael Taron wrote:mynnna wrote:Yes, this is why trit is worth 6 isk/unit and other low ends are similarly more expensive. Because, you know, the supply is larger. That's how supply and demand works, right guys? Supply more of it and the price goes up? As we're discussing the inflation of the economy it would make sense that the usual reduction in the price is negated by the increase in the amount of isk, reducing its value and therefore keeping prices up. Sarcasm not one of your strengths, obviously.
Which is why Zydrine and Megacyte are also double what they were a year ago... oh, wait... This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2838
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Posted - 2013.02.23 06:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Andres Talas wrote:Anomalies appearing are like mission agents who have an unlimited quantities of missions, but this is EvE - an actual harsh and cruel universe would have Agents advertise for bids to take their jobs, and if someone else quotes less than you do to kill those blood raiders, well, they get the contracts.
Interestingly, unlike Mission agents, are quite limited. The carrying capacity (number of players who can make competitive incomes) of one system is about 10 (and I'm pushing here) using Anomalies.
How many people are running missions concurrently out of Umokka?
As for what happens in lawless space, did you know that the US placed bounties effective on people residing outside of the US for most of the early 1800s, and effective on places that were not under effective US control for most of the rest of the 1800s. Why should CONCORD care where the criminals get caught, so long as they're caught?
Anyway, that's my little RP justification on why Bounties on Nullsec rats make sense. My real justification is that it almost certainly works better to have a similar primary isk faucet in every locale than to have ISK faucets monopolized by one or more locales. (HS has Missions, Nullsec has Anoms, WH has Blue Loot, and LS gets ****** [or maybe L5s, but I think that the LP probably sinks more ISK than the payment, and most of the income dropped by rats is in tags rather than ISK fauceting bounties, but whatever]). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2855
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Posted - 2013.02.24 15:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Zappity wrote:Candy Oshea wrote:this is what happens when a mechanical engineer argues with ecomonics major's isn't it Had a good chuckle at this. I thought the economics majors would have been less uppity after 2008. At least when a mechanical engineer stuffs up all that collapses is a bridge... That's a civil engineer. When a mechanical engineer stuffs up it's a 787 dreamliner or a ford pinto or something like that.
The Pinto was a wonderfully designed....
....bomb. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2887
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Posted - 2013.02.26 00:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
GoatChops wrote: 4. The speed that ISK changes hands between players or its "Velocity" (combined with more Faucets then sinks) is what causes ISK inflation (?)
Is that largely correct? Is there another key point somewhere I am missing? (Just trying to understand inflation really)
Inflation is more complicated than that.
My understanding is: Velocity is one part, but the balance between ISK faucets and sinks also plays a role. And of course, ISK inflation is affected by/affects Mudflation (materials inflation) because ISK doesn't quite behave like a real currency (basically because, unlike the real world, individuals can create it). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2888
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Posted - 2013.02.27 00:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mikhael Taron wrote:When someone takes out a loan the money appears, like it's been created. This is true of all economies that use a fiat currency. This is how the western economies have become so bloated with debt; the ad hoc creation of money. It's what's causing inflation in eve, and I still assert the way to tackle it is to look at the real world and see the methods used to cope.
Except that ISK is not a Fiat currency. Its closest RL equivalent is specie because the NPC sources are extractive in nature (mining gold = ratting for ISK. Both are activity in return for the creation of money [in a strictly specie-backed monetary system, ofc].).
The NPC corps that create ISK do not behave like governments that issue fiat currency, they behave like mines that can be tapped for currency. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2892
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Posted - 2013.02.27 03:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:RubyPorto wrote: Except that ISK is not a Fiat currency. Its closest RL equivalent is specie because the NPC sources are extractive in nature (mining gold = ratting for ISK. Both are activity in return for the creation of money [in a strictly specie-backed monetary system, ofc].).
iNTERESTING... an arguement that ISK is specie and not PLEX or assets... I'll have to think about this one
Closest to. I'm pretty sure it deviates from behaving like actual specie, but it deviates much further from behaving like an actual fiat currency. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2895
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
mynnna wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:mynnna wrote:Well, there is the saying that civil engineers design the targets and mechanical engineers design the bombs. I doubt they were that needed for Little Boy as much as the physicists ( the materials though very much required MECH-E's or CHEM-E's for spinning Uranium Hexafluoride? ) :cripes: What I meant when I said "there is a saying" was really "there is a joke."
Jokes, on my internet? This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2921
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Posted - 2013.03.01 22:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mikhael Taron wrote:RubyPorto wrote: Except that ISK is not a Fiat currency. Its closest RL equivalent is specie because the NPC sources are extractive in nature (mining gold = ratting for ISK. Both are activity in return for the creation of money [in a strictly specie-backed monetary system, ofc].).
The NPC corps that create ISK do not behave like governments that issue fiat currency, they behave like mines that can be tapped for currency.
Mines produce a commodity that can be used to back a currency. Indeed, the commodity can be used. To what use could you put the corpses of the serpentis rats on which you claimed you bounty? If you issued paper backed by them what worth would it have, assuming anyone would even accept it? A currency backed by corpses isn't fiat? I think it is.
Mines produce Specie that doesn't just back currency, it was currency. Rats produce ISK that doesn't just back currency, it is currency.
Miners mine Specie, Ratters create ISK. See the equivalence?
You're arguing that a gold coin is a fiat currency. This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2923
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Posted - 2013.03.02 19:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mikhael Taron wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Mines produce Specie that doesn't just back currency, it was currency. Rats produce ISK that doesn't just back currency, it is currency.
Miners mine Specie, Ratters create ISK. See the equivalence?
You're arguing that a gold coin is a fiat currency. Mines produce specie. I can hold it in my hand and raise paper against it. Rats produce fiat. There is nothing tangible, no commodity, nothing backing it. I can't raise paper against it because it is already paper. There is no equivalence. You are seeing things. Indicate where I have stated that gold coin is fiat? Again: you are seeing things. This attempt of yours to separate bounties from the problem of inflation has so far failed.
1. I am not trying to separate bounties from inflation at all. Ask the 16th century Spaniards if Specie currency can suffer from inflation issues.
2. ISK is the commodity. It's created in much the same way that RL Specie is created, and has about the same level of alternative uses that RL specie had at the height of Specie currencies (NPC Sell orders for ISK, the few non-recoverable uses of Gold for Specie). Ratters introduce ISK into the economy, Miners introduce Gold into the economy. It's the same process (slightly simplified). This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
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