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LHA Tarawa Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 234	Posted - 2013.01.18 21:15:00 - [1] - Quote 1) Not enough boom. Examine why people are reluctant to fight. Do not want to show up on a kill board. Do not want to encourage continued/additional war decs. Fear of hot drops. Out of corp alts. Targets logoff in the location they expect a fight, then login and are instantly in the fight. fix: War dec's suck for industrial corps. They shut down all missioning/mining. Hard to meet my monthly nut of 2.4B ISK for 4 PLEX, when I can't make any ISK for weeks on end. Because war decs suck so much, we really, really go out of our way to avoid them. This means avoiding showing up on kill board, and not giving any kills to the war decs we do get. Fighting back just causes the war to be extended. Make war decs suck less, and we're more likely to fight back. How? Make them limited to a system/constellation/region. Make the cost exponentially increase as the number of systems the copr/alliance has active decs in. Now, war dec is not horrid suck, so we don't do everything we can to avoid them, so we are more likely to fight back. In addition to that, * ship mountable cyno jammer to block hot drops * criminal flag for remote assisting anyone in a war that has a PVP flag to get rid of the out of corp repair alts. * Timer after login before you can activate modules against another ship, unless they fire on you first. 2) Why group play? I can make more money mission running or mining with me and my alts, than I can in a larger group. In a group, we have to move between mission or belts more often. fix: beats me. I don't know what a group could do that I can't do with my 4 accounts. 3) Why leave high sec? Null sec has been made so safe by its inhabitants, that the null and low sec ores pay basically the same value as high sec. fix: beats me: Capping the amount of resources in null, would encourage the locals to keep their groups small and would create massive wealth disparity. Make the resources unlimited to lift the cap on the number of people that can participate, and you get the situation we have now where null and low are no more profitable than high. You could do things like making the higher end version of the ores more drastic, and only appear in lower sec. Veld = current. Concentrated = 50% more than norm and only in low. Dense = 100% more than norm and only in null/wh. I suspect the result of this would be similar to what was happening after dominion where null residents were seeing wallets grow hyper fat in short order. Null being just as safe but twice as productive would crush mineral prices for high sec miners. But, at least my corp mates would be able to provide an answer to my question, why not just mine in high sec where it is safer and easier? 4) Balancing the desires of those that want to mess with others, with those that want to play the game without being messed with. Make it too hard to mess with people, then the hunters quit the game. Make it too easy, and the people that don't want to be messed with quit the game. fix: get those that want to mess with others, to mess with others that want to be mess with others. PVPers need to focus on PVPing each other instead of thinking of carebears as targets. Improved drops? Tough to do without encouraging people to kill their own alts? I'd like to see some kind of official kill board with a weighted points that reward killing people that have killed lots of other people, while providing little to no points for killing someone with few if any kills. Repeatedly killing the same player produces fewer points. Top killers become top killers by killing other top killers, not by wasting time war deccing miners or mission runners.
Tarvos Telesto Blood Fanatics 731	Posted - 2013.01.18 21:18:00 - [2] - Quote LHA Tarawa wrote: PVPers need to focus on PVPing each other instead of thinking of carebears as targets. This EvE isn't game, its style of living.
RomeStar Astra Research 140	Posted - 2013.01.18 21:22:00 - [3] - Quote Haha first in with the TLDR Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Seven Koskanaiken Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance 119	Posted - 2013.01.18 21:27:00 - [4] - Quote i read a book called Thinking in Systems recently the idea is, everything is a system and only the effects are the visible part of the iceberg, the system is hidden underneath also the point that the most intuitive fixes to a system are often the wrong ones and lead to even worse outcomes and just amplify the orignal unwanted effects (politics is full of this), and also that the most common leverage points people make changes to first are often the least effective and sometimes totally noneffective, and the most effective leverage points are the ones which are ignored or not given attention i think the dev of this game should all be given a copy to read before making any more "fixes"
Surfin's PlunderBunny Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 6740	Posted - 2013.01.18 21:28:00 - [5] - Quote I got a really bad cramp in my left foot while doing my mile swim after my 5 mile run today, could this be a symptom of an underlying problem I don't yet know of? "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á
Gerard Hareka State Protectorate Caldari State 6	Posted - 2013.01.18 21:32:00 - [6] - Quote Whats wrong with 2 powerblocks ( soon to be one ) in null ability to travel entire galaxy in 30 minutes , and invincible super cap blob ?? I dont get you , goons and tests are saying everything is ok
Wacktopia Noir. Black Legion. 437	Posted - 2013.01.18 21:35:00 - [7] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: LHA Tarawa wrote: PVPers need to focus on PVPing each other instead of thinking of carebears as targets. This What? Pretty sure last time I looked New Eden is full of PVP groups trying to punch each other in the face. Also, don't assume that non PVP ship kills are people greifing carebears. It is entirely plausible that organisations are blaping each other's ISK incomes. Try to see that warfare in EVE is not just PVP like it would be in an FPS game or a PVP arena in some nancy MMO. Most of the fights, the serious ones, the ones that matter... matter. The bottom line is that now I have one of those annoying signatures.
Marius Deterium Crush Kill Destroy 8	Posted - 2013.01.18 21:50:00 - [8] - Quote This post was so bad, I'm logging off the forum now.
Demolishar United Aggression 737	Posted - 2013.01.18 21:58:00 - [9] - Quote LHA Tarawa wrote: fix: War dec's suck for industrial corps. They shut down all missioning/mining. Hard to meet my monthly nut of 2.4B ISK for 4 PLEX, when I can't make any ISK for weeks on end. PLEX is a luxury not a necessity. If you can't take the heat, get out of the fire and pay subscription fees.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 1619	Posted - 2013.01.18 22:31:00 - [10] - Quote LHA Tarawa wrote: fix: get those that want to mess with others, to mess with others that want to be mess with others. PVPers need to focus on PVPing each other instead of thinking of carebears as targets. Improved drops? Tough to do without encouraging people to kill their own alts? Yes, improved drops from ships killed will make gankers want to kill other gankers.....AND miners, AND haulers, AND pretty much everything that moves, and some things that dont. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition 277	Posted - 2013.01.18 23:41:00 - [11] - Quote LHA Tarawa wrote: Hard to meet my monthly nut of 2.4B ISK for 4 PLEX CCP won-¦t let me be a freeloader without me putting in effort BAAAAW I have to share my mission ISK with a scout
Tweek Etimua Aliastra Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2013.01.18 23:58:00 - [12] - Quote Your inability to adapt is what your complaining about right?
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 3406	Posted - 2013.01.19 00:01:00 - [13] - Quote Inxentas Ultramar wrote: LHA Tarawa wrote: Hard to meet my monthly nut of 2.4B ISK for 4 PLEX CCP won-¦t let me be a freeloader without me putting in effort BAAAAW I have to share my mission ISK with a scout How is it freeloading? Hint: it's not. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm Want to enable BBcode on the forums? Here's how.
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition 279	Posted - 2013.01.19 00:11:00 - [14] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Inxentas Ultramar wrote: LHA Tarawa wrote: Hard to meet my monthly nut of 2.4B ISK for 4 PLEX CCP won-¦t let me be a freeloader without me putting in effort BAAAAW I have to share my mission ISK with a scout How is it freeloading? Hint: it's not. I stand corrected, technically he is not. But it passes the censor filter and it's 'close enough'. My apologies, I probably had my fair share of GD tonight. I'm usually less careless with my vocabulary
Sorlac Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2013.01.19 00:34:00 - [15] - Quote LHA Tarawa wrote: 1) Fixing EVE I just use the Repair Tool on the Launcher and it has always fixed EVE for me.
D-Fens RuN Da TraP Acid. 0	Posted - 2013.01.19 00:39:00 - [16] - Quote Eve isn't broken. You are.
Nexus Day Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau 409	Posted - 2013.01.19 00:43:00 - [17] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: i read a book called Thinking in Systems recently the idea is, everything is a system and only the effects are the visible part of the iceberg, the system is hidden underneath also the point that the most intuitive fixes to a system are often the wrong ones and lead to even worse outcomes and just amplify the orignal unwanted effects (politics is full of this), and also that the most common leverage points people make changes to first are often the least effective and sometimes totally noneffective, and the most effective leverage points are the ones which are ignored or not given attention i think the dev of this game should all be given a copy to read before making any more "fixes" Process design and redesign 101. Break down the process, analyze the data, form a theory based on objective evidence, test the design/solution, prove the design/solution, implement the design/solution, measure the results. Rinse, repeat. Unfortunately the number one thing people point to when something goes wrong is people. Not surprising is that they never point to themselves. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 573	Posted - 2013.01.20 15:16:00 - [18] - Quote Remove T2 BPOs. AMIRITE?
baltec1 Bat Country 4840	Posted - 2013.01.20 15:22:00 - [19] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: LHA Tarawa wrote: PVPers need to focus on PVPing each other instead of thinking of carebears as targets. This Sure, just as soon as bears stop making themselves targets.
Solstice Project Highsec Outlaw Elementary School 2594	Posted - 2013.01.20 15:33:00 - [20] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Tarvos Telesto wrote: LHA Tarawa wrote: PVPers need to focus on PVPing each other instead of thinking of carebears as targets. This Sure, just as soon as bears stop making themselves targets. I'd laugh my ass off if that ever happened. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire
baltec1 Bat Country 4840	Posted - 2013.01.20 15:46:00 - [21] - Quote Solstice Project wrote: I'd laugh my ass off if that ever happened. By god we tried
Solstice Project Highsec Outlaw Elementary School 2594	Posted - 2013.01.20 15:50:00 - [22] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Solstice Project wrote: I'd laugh my ass off if that ever happened. By god we tried How so ? Did i miss something ? I wouldn't count killing miners as trying, tbh. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire
March rabbit Aliastra 491	Posted - 2013.01.20 16:05:00 - [23] - Quote Tarvos Telesto wrote: LHA Tarawa wrote: PVPers need to focus on PVPing each other instead of thinking of carebears as targets. This but.... but.... but.... THIS IS SO DANGER!!!
AstraPardus Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans 187	Posted - 2013.01.20 16:09:00 - [24] - Quote Everyone v Everyone = Working as intended. We are all targets, I've come to cope with it, you can too. Every time I post is Pardy time! :3
Mars Theran Red Rogue Squadron 1601	Posted - 2013.01.20 20:00:00 - [25] - Quote 1) The answer is obvious; losing ships costs ISK. 2) You can make more ISK in a group; mission running is not the way to do this. To some extent, this can also be done with many alts. There are somewhat severe limitations on this. 3) Capping resources in Null? I assume you mean Highsec and this was a mistype. I'm all for capping Highsec resources. 4) No. Current systems in place are enough, and to some extent they encourage PvP by parties that wouldn't normally do so. Dueling will be another option that will make this more likely to some extent by limiting the engagements even further. Preventing player aggression is not an answer. Limiting by introducing consequence where it is realistic to have it is fine. This has been done. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Sergeant Acht Scultz School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 480	Posted - 2013.01.20 20:03:00 - [26] - Quote Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote: I got a really bad cramp in my left foot while doing my mile swim after my 5 mile run today, could this be a symptom of an underlying problem I don't yet know of? SLA is watching you?
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 376	Posted - 2013.01.20 20:03:00 - [27] - Quote Themeparkers........ If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.

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