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Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
183
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 17:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Basically, I love the dominix and can use T2 sentries. I've recently joined a wh corp where shield spider tanking is the prefered (lots of tengus).
I can fit up a pretty mean shield tank domi but are my sentry drones going to be continuously targeted as appears to happen with "normal" drones?
I have heard rumours that sentries do not draw aggro the way other drones do.
Has anyone got some first hand experience with this? |

Cap James Tkirk
Magellan Corporation Jokers Wild.
91
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 17:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Generally in your potatoe your gonna be anchor if in a tengu gang just keep your eyes on your sentries and fit maybe an ewar if u can they will hate your reps and ewar alot |

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
183
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 17:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
I appreciate the advice but that sounded a little like a guess (apologies if not). I am interested in hearing from anyone who has seen them being successfully used with their own eyes and if there was anything in particular that was required as a prerequisite.
We will be all remote repping but I'm not sure about ewar. I'd prefer to keep mids for a tank although I could spring for a navy domi if its likely to be a big aggro draw. |

Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
138
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 20:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Complex Potential wrote:I appreciate the advice but that sounded a little like a guess (apologies if not). I am interested in hearing from anyone who has seen them being successfully used with their own eyes and if there was anything in particular that was required as a prerequisite.
We will be all remote repping but I'm not sure about ewar. I'd prefer to keep mids for a tank although I could spring for a navy domi if its likely to be a big aggro draw.
I've used both the Domi and the Navy domi with Sentries as you've described.
I GREATLY prefer the Navy Domi for the buffer, but the resists will be the same on either. Your sentries never pull aggro because you have logistics on the field. In frontier command posts there is a slight chance that the frigates MAY aggro your sentries, or that a sentry gun may shoot one of your sentries if you are closer than the warp in.
Also, normal drones shouldn't be getting targeted if you have anybody on the field who has a logistics mod fitted (remote armor, shield transporters). We run mix battleships and Basilisk often, and our Hobgoblins rarely get hit.
Svo. |

Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
286
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 20:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
do these mods have to be used? or just fitted? does it make a difference if they are offlined? Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Paikis
Vapour Holdings
569
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:do these mods have to be used? or just fitted? does it make a difference if they are offlined?
Used, why would you fit RR and then offline it? |

Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
186
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
If your in a fleet with multiple ships on grid sleepers won't go for your drones too often and with sentries assuming you stay in range of them you can just scoop and redeploy.
Also if you want to stick to drones consider using a rattlesnake (or even a gila) - fits a mean shield tank and especially in a pulsar can also be fit to provide a decent amount of remote rep capabilities. |

Cage Man
152
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 01:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
RR your drones if they get shot at... Oh PLEASE!!! CCP Fozzie Can I haz a Navy moa....... |

Bane Nucleus
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
314
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 05:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Two RR fit Rattlesnakes and the rest GIlas. C4 anoms in about 3 1/2 minutes. Alliance CEO, Diplomat, Recruiter |

Shamus O'Reilly
Gungnirs' Point I Know Right
68
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 06:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Haven't been in Wspace that long myself (Almost a month now). But i have yet to honestly see a single sleeper target a drone from us. I had come in to Wspace expecting droneboats being useless but so far they have proven to be excelling beyond expectations and being better than many other ships.
Lil off topic but it points to drone usage/sentries in WHs and i'd love an answer to this in general as actual use vs what i've heard is completely opposite. (In fact a sentry domi has soloed our sites on occasion and the pilot never had to recall its drones)
Edited: C3 not C4. Don't know if this has any effect on drone targeting. |

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
186
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 07:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Svodola Darkfury wrote:Complex Potential wrote:I appreciate the advice but that sounded a little like a guess (apologies if not). I am interested in hearing from anyone who has seen them being successfully used with their own eyes and if there was anything in particular that was required as a prerequisite.
We will be all remote repping but I'm not sure about ewar. I'd prefer to keep mids for a tank although I could spring for a navy domi if its likely to be a big aggro draw. I've used both the Domi and the Navy domi with Sentries as you've described. I GREATLY prefer the Navy Domi for the buffer, but the resists will be the same on either. Your sentries never pull aggro because you have logistics on the field. In frontier command posts there is a slight chance that the frigates MAY aggro your sentries, or that a sentry gun may shoot one of your sentries if you are closer than the warp in. Also, normal drones shouldn't be getting targeted if you have anybody on the field who has a logistics mod fitted (remote armor, shield transporters). We run mix battleships and Basilisk often, and our Hobgoblins rarely get hit. Svo.
Thanks. I was refering to that beautiful extra med slot on the navy domi with regard to ewar but I can see how it would generally be a preferable option.
I'm currently training up for the good old Tengu and the domi is basically a stand in ship until then. However, if the domi really works well, I could invest in a navy domi instead of a tengu when the time comes. Would probably be cheaper. |

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
186
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 07:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rroff wrote: Also if you want to stick to drones consider using a rattlesnake (or even a gila) - fits a mean shield tank and especially in a pulsar can also be fit to provide a decent amount of remote rep capabilities.
Hmm... A rattlesnake would be a nice shiny but at twice the price of a navy domi, I'm not sure the improvement would make much difference in my case. Can you get more dps out of a rattlesnake? I suspect yes. |

Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
138
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 07:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Complex Potential wrote:Rroff wrote: Also if you want to stick to drones consider using a rattlesnake (or even a gila) - fits a mean shield tank and especially in a pulsar can also be fit to provide a decent amount of remote rep capabilities.
Hmm... A rattlesnake would be a nice shiny but at twice the price of a navy domi, I'm not sure the improvement would make much difference in my case. Can you get more dps out of a rattlesnake? I suspect yes.
No. |

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
186
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 07:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
That makes it easy then. |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
1801
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 10:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
How much dps RR Tengus put out and what ranges after the HML change?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

czMulti
Posthuman Society 10110001100111101000
31
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 11:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
c5 cap escalations - drones get shot a lot. even with logi and heavy ewar on the field. |

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
188
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 12:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
cz - This thread is specifically about sentry drones (which tend to be treated differently in much of the game). Are we talking about the same thing? |

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
188
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 12:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
On a related note, I am also reading that sentry drones struggle to hit sleepers without a couple of omnidirectional tracking links. Anyone able to confirm or deny? If true, is it just the cruisers and frigs that are tough to hit or does that also include the larger ships? |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
1803
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 12:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
You'll want at least two Omnis on any sentry ship, not only for tracking but for range. In addition you'll like a target painters and a web. You can use light drones for the frigs, even though sentries will hit multi-webbed and painted frigs.
Shield RR Domi is much worse than armor RR Domi because it needs the mids for tank and not damage application.
Just tell your buddies to train Domis :)
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
144
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 13:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Don't let the Sleeper frigates get into orbit range. If they do, they will have a higher tendency to target smaller things like drones (sentries and scouts). If you warp in at range, sentries can take out the frigs as they MWD to you at zero transversal, unless you have someone else using light drones. It's funny to hear someone cuss the Sleepers cause they lost a drone or two ... until it happens to you :)
If the frigates get into orbit, you'll have a harder time hitting them with sentries. |

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
188
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 13:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Roime wrote:You'll want at least two Omnis on any sentry ship, not only for tracking but for range. In addition you'll like a target painters and a web. You can use light drones for the frigs, even though sentries will hit multi-webbed and painted frigs.
Shield RR Domi is much worse than armor RR Domi because it needs the mids for tank and not damage application.
Just tell your buddies to train Domis :)
Heh, good advice. Although the shield version has the bonus of having plenty of low slots for the DDAs Admittedly that's not much use if you cant hit anything.
A rattlesnake would be a better option because it can fit a monster shield tank, 2 omni's and still have a med slot left over for a painter or a web. Only problem is that it cost 500mil for the hull when compared with 250mil for the navy domi. |

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
188
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 13:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Meytal wrote:Don't let the Sleeper frigates get into orbit range. If they do, they will have a higher tendency to target smaller things like drones (sentries and scouts). If you warp in at range, sentries can take out the frigs as they MWD to you at zero transversal, unless you have someone else using light drones. It's funny to hear someone cuss the Sleepers cause they lost a drone or two ... until it happens to you :)
If the frigates get into orbit, you'll have a harder time hitting them with sentries. I was playing with the idea of fitting light neutron blasters for the sole purpose of dealing with the close orbiting frigates.
With 3 DDA IIs and 2 Omnidirectional Tracking Link IIs my Garde IIs do 630dps with an optimal of 45km (falloff 12km) and a tracking speed of 0.055 which can probably deal with cruiser sized stuff.
If I switch to Curator IIs then the optimal increases to 80km (falloff 24km) and the tracking drops to 0.037 which would hopefully deal with the BSs and any frigs that start at long range.
Without additional sensor boosting I cant target beyond 90km anyway and I think that's where the Tengus start to struggle with missile range. |

Jay Joringer
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
59
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 13:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Complex Potential wrote: Without additional sensor boosting I cant target beyond 90km anyway and I think that's where the Tengus start to struggle with missile range.
Indeed it is. With the mobility of the Tengu, it's easy to overcome this problem though. The enormous green space poo that is the Dominix will never be described as fast or agile. For that matter, neither will a Rattlesnake. A Gila may suffice instead.
|

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
188
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 13:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jay Joringer wrote:Complex Potential wrote: Without additional sensor boosting I cant target beyond 90km anyway and I think that's where the Tengus start to struggle with missile range.
Indeed it is. With the mobility of the Tengu, it's easy to overcome this problem though. The enormous green space poo that is the Dominix will never be described as fast or agile. For that matter, neither will a Rattlesnake. A Gila may suffice instead. Thank you Jay 
So presumably most battleships would simply slow down the group in the event of the rats being too far away. The rattlesnake could target and hit at over 130km but, since the tengus cannot and the rattler cannot survive outside of rep range this would not help much.
A Gila is an interesting idea. The only issue is that Sentry drones are static and so they would need to be scooped and redeployed each time the group decided to move position. This means I would not be able to shoot on-the-fly so to speak. |

Jay Joringer
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
59
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 13:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
It shouldn't be a problem. If range becomes an issue, we anchor on one ship until we're in range, then return to formation, so there wont be shooting on the fly anyway. In principle, all the Gila would do differently is scoop and deploy drones before and after the moves respectively. |

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
189
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 14:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jay Joringer wrote:It shouldn't be a problem. If range becomes an issue, we anchor on one ship until we're in range, then return to formation, so there wont be shooting on the fly anyway. In principle, all the Gila would do differently is scoop and deploy drones before and after the moves respectively. Yeah, shame about the cap issues. The T3s have enormous cap reserves in comparison to the Gila. I wouldn't be able to offer much in the way of support to others with remote repping. |

DisBeyotch
Scifried Strategic Military Industries
4
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 14:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
We jumped 2 domis a while back clearing sites in a C4. We didn't spend much time observing their clear speed, but they wouldn't have been doing it if it didn't work.
Judging by the drone bay layout, they were just switching to Warrior II's when the frigs got in close, plenty of RR for the drones and themselves, and a cap chain to feed each other. I loaded the fits in EFT after we posted the killmails b/c I wanted to see what the tank and dps was like. Pretty impressive actually. |

Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
186
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 16:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Complex Potential wrote: Hmm... A rattlesnake would be a nice shiny but at twice the price of a navy domi, I'm not sure the improvement would make much difference in my case. Can you get more dps out of a rattlesnake? I suspect yes.
TBH (with lots of skills) a regular domi shield fit can out dps a nightmare for sleepers since drone damage mods, etc. were introduced (with the disadvantages of having to pull and deploy different types of sentries for different ranges instead of just swapping crystals and obviously having to deal with drones being shot at) rattlesnake needs cruise to reach similiar variation of ranges and torps are lol against sleepers.
If your purely after maxing out dps and using turrets + drones then tbh not much really replaces the standard domi IMO not sure its even worth going to the faction variant over it.
The rattlesnake has the advantages of a beast of a shield tank and being able to support your fleet via RR better than a domi can (for shield setusp) but without omni trackers and using just sentries for dps its only putting about 300dps effective against sleepers. |

Arazel Chainfire
Sons Of 0din Dark Therapy
179
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 17:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
An important note to keep in mind regarding sentries:
Guard's have the shortest range, best damage, and best tracking Curators have worst damage (tied w/ wardens), mid range, and mid tracking. Bouncers have 2nd best range with 2 omni's (best with none), worst tracking (tied with wardens), and 2nd best damage Wardens have best optimal, worst tracking, and worst damage.
To note, the best drone layout for a domi is going to be 5 guard's (less than 40k), 5 bouncers (outside of 40k), 5 warrior's (frigate swatting), and then the remaining space can be for either spares, or mediums for in case cruisers get in under your guns. Curators seem nice, because of the better tracking than bouncers, but out past 40k the traversal is small enough that the extra damage from the bouncers is going to win out.
-Arazel |

Complex Potential
Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project
191
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 13:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
So, I went ahead and got a Navy Domi to see how well it works alongside spider tanking T3s and tried to keep all the useful comments in mind from this thread, thanks everyone.
I'm happy to report that it performs admirably. Tanks fine with 3 buddies and the rats did not target my sentry drones once.
In its current set up (includes 2 omnidirectionals) it hits out to about 90km and does around 550dps at that range. It can also hit cruisers inside of 20km reasonably well with Gardes. **
It's major problem when teamed up with T3s is that the T3s need to move around and the domi doesn't want to. This can cause a problem if rats spawn too far away, even though the domi itself can be set up to hit at 140km.
I have a modified fit that would allow for targeting and hitting at 140km which potentially would work great in a group of domis or if a few logi ships were on the field.
Overall I'm very happy with the Navy Domi as a stand in until my T3 skills are up, especially given its price. Also, I like the completely pointless camo paint job I would imagine that a Rattlesnake would do even better but at twice the price, I didn't feel it was worth it for me.
** note - this is very dependent on being able to use T2 Sentry Drones. T1s simply dont hit far enough or hard enough. |
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