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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lord Artemis on 06/07/2005 04:21:46 looks like the only ones able to do the adv ship, capitol ship, dreadnaught etc. skills will be the ones with 1 bil or more in their wallet
as i look at some of the price totals to just be able to fly frieghters and dreads as well as being able to contruct outpost and everything else, all i can say is "Good God" the isk sinkage there. ___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Sadist
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:49:00 -
[2]
All i can say about the new isk sinks - its about goddamn time... ---------------
Originally by: Dark Shikari "One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
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Emno
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Posted - 2005.07.06 04:55:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Emno on 06/07/2005 04:56:51 i would love to know how much isk has been taking out of the game since the patch by these bpos
as for the skills if you want the best it takes time (not just skill time, time getting the isk to buy them)
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slip66
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Posted - 2005.07.06 05:03:00 -
[4]
Edited by: slip66 on 06/07/2005 05:03:55 \0/
edit: im not rich but glad to see a place for those who are have a place to spend it.
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:00:00 -
[5]
oh im glad they are expensive too, im just shocked ___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:31:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Noriath on 06/07/2005 06:34:58
I find it totally ridiculous.
ISK sink should not mean: Screw everyone who doesn't just play for ISK/hour.
This doesn't drain ISK from the ritch, it screws over people who don't have unlimited ISK.
Left alone the fact that you need 125 million ISK just to get the skills for a freighter is just another big "F*ck You" for industrialists who haven't won the tech 2 lottery yet...
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Mephistos
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:39:00 -
[7]
Most of the new ships are made to be a purchase for a corp or an alliance, not a solo'er. Really, unless you're planning on assaulting POS's there's no need for a Dread.
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Emno
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Posted - 2005.07.06 06:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Noriath Edited by: Noriath on 06/07/2005 06:34:58
I find it totally ridiculous.
ISK sink should not mean: Screw everyone who doesn't just play for ISK/hour.
This doesn't drain ISK from the ritch, it screws over people who don't have unlimited ISK.
Left alone the fact that you need 125 million ISK just to get the skills for a freighter is just another big "F*ck You" for industrialists who haven't won the tech 2 lottery yet...
Its not hard to make the money for one in 0.0. Its more risk for more gain move out of empire take a pos via one of the many new gates into 0.0 and mine high ends then you'll have the money.
Think of the positive things in this patch not just the positive things you see as negative.
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Safronique
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:33:00 -
[9]
Prices??? (haven't been able to log on yet )
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.07.06 09:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Emno
Its not hard to make the money for one in 0.0. Its more risk for more gain move out of empire take a pos via one of the many new gates into 0.0 and mine high ends then you'll have the money.
Think of the positive things in this patch not just the positive things you see as negative.
This is just not a reasonable moneysink. It bleeds the poor and doesn't add new permanent expenses to the ritch at all. Moneysinks should be directly related to the activities that create the surplus amounts of money, not be a one time expense that makes people who don't have money to throw around wonder how to get that kind of cash without doing things they don't enjoy, and is only a minor one-time incenvenience for those who create the problem in the first place...
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Zophi
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Posted - 2005.07.06 09:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Noriath Edited by: Noriath on 06/07/2005 06:34:58
I find it totally ridiculous.
ISK sink should not mean: Screw everyone who doesn't just play for ISK/hour.
This doesn't drain ISK from the ritch, it screws over people who don't have unlimited ISK.
Left alone the fact that you need 125 million ISK just to get the skills for a freighter is just another big "F*ck You" for industrialists who haven't won the tech 2 lottery yet...
No every part of the game should be aimed at everyone. The freigthers and dreads are aimed at big corps/alliances. If 125M skill is to much for you, how are you going to pay for a freighter? They will cost several billion ISK.
I guess thats why CCP are aiming to make faction BS more common. That way they should stay in a price class that fill some of the gap between normal BS and the Dreads. I also expect elite BS to be aimed at filling that gap.
But in short: Dreads and frigs are for the big boys. And thank god that the big boys finally got something that is a unik challenge for them. --- "Why can't we all just get along?" |
Greyshadow
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:19:00 -
[12]
Its a good idea that there is something that not everyone can get though, pretty much everyone can get a BS now, even a solo'er, but once you have one whats to aim for? By making dreads/freighters so much isk it means you have to work towards something else, and also people that have the isk to buy these ships have probably been playing for a long time and achieved something that someone newer hasn't achieved ie more isk. Alliances will always have the edge as its a combined profit between mass numbers so they will always be the first to have one . You know the way to get one is to have the isk, and the only way to get the isk is to play for a longer period of time. At the end of the day thats what ccp wants for us all to do, play for longer and not just to play for a year and get everything and then leave coz we're bored and have everything from the game. Its good for ccp and for us as there is always something we want but can't straight away have.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Noriath
Originally by: Emno
Its not hard to make the money for one in 0.0. Its more risk for more gain move out of empire take a pos via one of the many new gates into 0.0 and mine high ends then you'll have the money.
Think of the positive things in this patch not just the positive things you see as negative.
This is just not a reasonable moneysink. It bleeds the poor and doesn't add new permanent expenses to the ritch at all. Moneysinks should be directly related to the activities that create the surplus amounts of money, not be a one time expense that makes people who don't have money to throw around wonder how to get that kind of cash without doing things they don't enjoy, and is only a minor one-time incenvenience for those who create the problem in the first place...
It does not bleed the poor because the poor dont buy them.
Omg porsches are so expensive, think of the poor people. Err, no. I just dont buy one.
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Pestily
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:03:00 -
[14]
i think also that ccp wanted to make it so there was a ship out there that u wouldnt run into everywhere u flew... and that not 95% of the people in nthe game have rusting away in thier hangers and no one caring about... dreads will be a rare sight to see hopefully... and i think thats what ccp want
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Noriath Edited by: Noriath on 06/07/2005 06:34:58
I find it totally ridiculous.
ISK sink should not mean: Screw everyone who doesn't just play for ISK/hour.
This doesn't drain ISK from the ritch, it screws over people who don't have unlimited ISK.
Left alone the fact that you need 125 million ISK just to get the skills for a freighter is just another big "F*ck You" for industrialists who haven't won the tech 2 lottery yet...
Boo oohh ...
- Gob |
Lek Ubuntu
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:12:00 -
[16]
lol, porches aren't targeted for the poor?
I totally agree, while the expectation of some people seems to be 'I pay the same amount as everyone else, I deserve the same access to content'...the only restriction they have is their own playing style which CCP has no control over. If a small freelance corp can't afford a freighter, so be it...if they merged with a large corp for access to their riches then they could have one, or they mined in 0.0 for a few weeks straight they would have the money..
lots of choices, but they are yours and yours alone..the choices that is |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Noriath Edited by: Noriath on 06/07/2005 06:34:58
I find it totally ridiculous.
ISK sink should not mean: Screw everyone who doesn't just play for ISK/hour.
This doesn't drain ISK from the ritch, it screws over people who don't have unlimited ISK.
Left alone the fact that you need 125 million ISK just to get the skills for a freighter is just another big "F*ck You" for industrialists who haven't won the tech 2 lottery yet...
Actually, you are wrong. You don't want every player flying around in a dreadnaught as soon as they have the skills to do so now do you?
ex P-TMC
If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
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Dreck Morrison
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Posted - 2005.07.06 14:25:00 -
[18]
This patch is unique in the fact that you either can have the skills before you can afford the ship or that you can maybe afford a portion of a ship before you have the skills. Finally a patch where everyone in the game doesn't own an item within 20 minutes after logging in.
True it takes uber isk to buy these toys -> The guys I know that are buying all the freighter components and a bpo are dropping 7B isk just to be able to build them. Roughly that is 19-25 peoples corp. efforts that made it happen....not solo. All so, their corp. can build 3 freighters and trust me one or 2 freighter is all it takes....
Convoy #1: Two Freighters plus 23 BS "escorts" hauls 2M m3. Isk cost of ships: 3.8B isk (freighters 750M isk each, BS 100M isk each).
Convoy #2: 20 Indy Mk Vs plus 4 BS escorts hauls 400,000 m3 (crazy convoy) ISK cost of ships: ~500M
The cost in isk per m3 moved is about the same.....just the 2nd convoy requires 5 trips through possible gate camps and the first requires one. You can always get the job done with lots of people or lots of trips, the freighter just makes it all happen at once assuming you can afford to fill it up.
Dreck
p.s. Don't whine about how rich people are yet....someone will get the tech 2 Ice Miner BPO. I expect that to bring in 20B isk per year for them. |
Finix Jaeger
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:38:00 -
[19]
The scary thing imo is the amount of ppl training to fly dreads, most of those I know never leaves high sec today... ------------------------- Grand Agitator Rabid defender of the Homeworld voice
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zophi No every part of the game should be aimed at everyone. The freigthers and dreads are aimed at big corps/alliances. If 125M skill is to much for you, how are you going to pay for a freighter? They will cost several billion ISK.
It's not too much for me, it's just going to put a major dent in my financing the freighter, and I think that this is not fair. Freighters should not be reserved for alliances at all, they are the one thing everyone in Eve has been waiting for ever since they first wanted to move all their stuff from point A to point B and now that they are in the game you're being told that instead of earning the right to pilot a ship via training, as it always was, I have to fork over the price of a Battleship just to get the skillbooks?
I would completly understand it if this was the case for dreadnaught, because those should be limited, but freighters? Who are they trying to keep out of those things?
Also the skillbooks for drone specialization are between 8 and 9 mil if you buy them in a region where they are cheap. Now what the hell is that all about? Roughly 35 mil for skills that add 2% damage? Is this just some twisted attempt at being cute or just plain old screwing over droners? CCP hates drones so much they can't even put decent pictures on the items...
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Deovina
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Posted - 2005.07.06 15:56:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Noriath
Originally by: Zophi No every part of the game should be aimed at everyone. The freigthers and dreads are aimed at big corps/alliances. If 125M skill is to much for you, how are you going to pay for a freighter? They will cost several billion ISK.
It's not too much for me, it's just going to put a major dent in my financing the freighter, and I think that this is not fair. Freighters should not be reserved for alliances at all, they are the one thing everyone in Eve has been waiting for ever since they first wanted to move all their stuff from point A to point B and now that they are in the game you're being told that instead of earning the right to pilot a ship via training, as it always was, I have to fork over the price of a Battleship just to get the skillbooks?
I would completly understand it if this was the case for dreadnaught, because those should be limited, but freighters? Who are they trying to keep out of those things?
Also the skillbooks for drone specialization are between 8 and 9 mil if you buy them in a region where they are cheap. Now what the hell is that all about? Roughly 35 mil for skills that add 2% damage? Is this just some twisted attempt at being cute or just plain old screwing over droners? CCP hates drones so much they can't even put decent pictures on the items...
just for your information. A freighter costs about 1 billion to make. Considering the production time it ain't going to be sold anywhere near that. So if the skills are already to much for you better leave it.
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Kastar
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Posted - 2005.07.06 16:54:00 -
[22]
I hear a lot of whining... skills too expensive, items too expensive...
Why not simply acknowledging that ccp is doing their best here to keep everything balanced for everyone. I bet most of the people whining here aren't even close to having the skillpoints or support skills to use the advanced drones or the freighters. People who do have them won't be bothered by neither skill reqs nor price.
This great game is more and more goin into a direction of either specialization in some direction, or live with the group aspect. Isn't that the point of MMORPG ? I'd love to see many make use of a freighter without a supporting corp, do you realize you won't even be able to move ? Without help you can't even move the new capital ships, you need someone as a beacon to jump to...
I agree to the many sound minds above... it's about time that advanced players and bigger corps have something again to focus on. I envy them though
CCP has again done a great job with the new content. There is always work to be done, but Rome wasn't built in one day either.
Kas out
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Seradhin
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Posted - 2005.07.06 17:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kastar
This great game is more and more goin into a direction of either specialization in some direction, or live with the group aspect. Isn't that the point of MMORPG ? I'd love to see many make use of a freighter without a supporting corp, do you realize you won't even be able to move ? Without help you can't even move the new capital ships, you need someone as a beacon to jump to...
Actually you are wrong about a point there, it is only dreadnaughts that use jump drives and thus require someone as a beacon. Freighters still use traditional stargates so it is perfectly possible for someone to use one solo.
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Delacho
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Posted - 2005.07.06 17:29:00 -
[24]
the only problem is see is that with only allowing the uber rich to haul 1M at once, will also make it so that only the uber rich can make alot of money fast by hauling ..... rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, just like real world
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
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Posted - 2005.07.06 17:44:00 -
[25]
It takes money to make money, just like real life as well.
Perhaps CCP should start a EVE isk lottery, giving some hope to the poor?
Ive been working towards my BS for 4 weeks now (cant play much) with the help of my corp, but I still agree that these new cap ships should not be solo in any way. It should take an empires resources to build and support them. I will probably never get to see one, let alone fly one, but I'm glad they are in, and who knows, maybe ill be able to move into an alliance corp and get new opportunities. Just like in real life Ill never own a yacht or an airplane, even tho I work 5-6 days a week. I know this is a game, and we all pay the same to play, but we all have the same access to content(at least, same chances to access content), but we cant all expect access to everything, we already had rare items, rare ships. If everyone had the +2 uber laser of cleaving, what would be the point? If you happen to find one through hard work and luck, imagine your enemies surprise when you bring it to bear.
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Magunus
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Posted - 2005.07.06 17:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn It takes money to make money, just like real life as well.
Perhaps CCP should start a EVE isk lottery, giving some hope to the poor?
You mean the Tech 2 BPO lottery? ---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Deovina just for your information. A freighter costs about 1 billion to make. Considering the production time it ain't going to be sold anywhere near that. So if the skills are already to much for you better leave it.
So? I don't have a problem with the ship itself being expensive. My corp could get a large part of the minerals and finance the rest of the items we need to build a freighter. That's the way it should be - major investment equals major asset.
Skills however are different. If my corp buys them I cannot give them to someone else if I don't need them anymore. I can't sell them again if I have no use for them any longer - I just don't think that skills should be expensive in ISK since you already have to invest training time to get them!
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Odet
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:37:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Odet on 06/07/2005 21:40:05
Originally by: Noriath
Originally by: Zophi No every part of the game should be aimed at everyone. The freigthers and dreads are aimed at big corps/alliances. If 125M skill is to much for you, how are you going to pay for a freighter? They will cost several billion ISK.
It's not too much for me, it's just going to put a major dent in my financing the freighter, and I think that this is not fair. Freighters should not be reserved for alliances at all, they are the one thing everyone in Eve has been waiting for ever since they first wanted to move all their stuff from point A to point B and now that they are in the game you're being told that instead of earning the right to pilot a ship via training, as it always was, I have to fork over the price of a Battleship just to get the skillbooks?
I would completly understand it if this was the case for dreadnaught, because those should be limited, but freighters? Who are they trying to keep out of those things?
Also the skillbooks for drone specialization are between 8 and 9 mil if you buy them in a region where they are cheap. Now what the hell is that all about? Roughly 35 mil for skills that add 2% damage? Is this just some twisted attempt at being cute or just plain old screwing over droners? CCP hates drones so much they can't even put decent pictures on the items...
ok lets say u need to move some stuff around a lot are you going to buy a van or are you going to buy an 18wheeler truck. i doubt your going to buy that 18wheeler to get the groceries. You really need to stfu ppl and think before u post stupidity. still complaining? join a big corp that willl actually need freighters. You dont need a freighter in your 2 man corps u just want them. And if u want them bad enough go joina big corp....
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Azareal
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: FireFoxx80
Originally by: Noriath Edited by: Noriath on 06/07/2005 06:34:58
I find it totally ridiculous.
ISK sink should not mean: Screw everyone who doesn't just play for ISK/hour.
This doesn't drain ISK from the ritch, it screws over people who don't have unlimited ISK.
Left alone the fact that you need 125 million ISK just to get the skills for a freighter is just another big "F*ck You" for industrialists who haven't won the tech 2 lottery yet...
Actually, you are wrong. You don't want every player flying around in a dreadnaught as soon as they have the skills to do so now do you?
Well, ur right there, execpt by the looks of things its gonna cost over 700mil to buy the skills... so anyone buyin those skills, is bound to have some way to make a **** lodaa isk back
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Shayla Sh'inlux
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Posted - 2005.07.06 22:12:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Left alone the fact that you need 125 million ISK just to get the skills for a freighter is just another big "F*ck You" for industrialists who haven't won the tech 2 lottery yet...
Wtf are you on?
I have been doing Industry for about 3-4 months before I discovered the fun of PvP and have made about 3b in isk-making assets (ie BS BPO's, mineral trades) and 1,5b in my wallet in that time. More than enough to finance all the PvP I ever want.
And not I wasn't playing 23/7 either. You just need a brain.
Also, please for crying out loud, 700mil is *EASY* and you should have TWICE that by the time you have trained Industrial 5 and Space Ship Command 5, ESPECIALLY as an Indsutrial. There is SO much money to make in this game...
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