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Sally
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Posted - 2005.07.06 07:22:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sally on 06/07/2005 07:28:26
Anyone noticed it?
Pre-patch:
EMP L: -50% range / 44 dmg
Phased Plasma L -37% / 44 dmg
Fusion L: -25% / 44 dmg
Titanium L: -12% /36 dmg
etc.
Post Patch:
EMP L: -50% range / 44 dmg
Phased Plasma L -37% / 40 dmg
Fusion L: -25% / 40 dmg
etc.
Basicaly, projectiles damage now 10% lower on many ammos.
They are all 10% lower than hybrid and laser ammos.
Pre-patch lower damage on EMP ammo was balanced by higher damage on Fusion ammo. You could also choose close damage type without too much thinking about amount of damage.
Now projectiles ammo got nerfed without any aparrent reason. It already was lowest damaging turret in the game, now its got even worse. What was a backthought about it? Was anyone complained about too much damage on projectiles or what??? Or its just a bug?
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Sally
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Posted - 2005.07.06 09:48:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Sally on 06/07/2005 09:48:36
 Originally by: Xiliath
I know it was nice, but it's not supposed to be equal damage across the board. We can't have too much of an advantage.
What ADVANTAGE you speak? Hybrids and lasers both have 48 dmg for 1st ammo, and 44 for 2th. Projectiles NOW have 44 for 1st and 40 for 2nd. WHERE IS BALANCE?
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Sally
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:26:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sally on 06/07/2005 10:30:06
Edited by: Sally on 06/07/2005 10:27:35
Quote:
We are constricted to 2 damage types, lasers putting out mostly EM and hybrids Kinetic, you can do all types.
Long range projectile ammo does 24dmg and 2 dmg types, radio does 20dmg and 1 dmg type. WHERE IS BALANCE?
1400 II and AC Tempests are deadly anyway. Stop whining
Balance was in the form of much lower damage on AC and 1400 tempest compared to megathron and armageddon. And we dont speak here about 2 or 3%. Its 30-40% difference. THIS kind of damage dealing disadvantage more than justyfy "different kind of damage". In the patch what boost projectiles developers specificaly said what they changed ammo damage so ppls can choose damage type regardless of damage amount. Now they changed it back how it was - every range have different damage, but they did not brought back the ammo damage amount. So now we got the worst of both changes.
And now the kick about long ranges: Railguns have 48km optimal (and much better tracking), 1400 have have 40km optimal. So you should shot at falloff with 1400. If you shot 15km at falloff, thats equal 20% less damage. So even with supposely inferior ammo lasers and hybrids still do a better damage at longer ranges than projectiles. Besides, long range ammo for projectiles got only 2 damage types also.
P.S. Oh, btw, arma can now equip 7th beam laser. Another boost to already best damage dealing ship in the game.
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Sally
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:36:00 -
[4]
We are constricted to 2 damage types, lasers putting out mostly EM and hybrids Kinetic, you can do all types.
Long range projectile ammo does 24dmg and 2 dmg types, radio does 20dmg and 1 dmg type. WHERE IS BALANCE?
1400 II and AC Tempests are deadly anyway. Stop whining
Balance was in the form of much lower damage on AC and 1400 tempest compared to megathron and armageddon. And we dont speak here about 2 or 3%. Its 30-40% difference. THIS kind of damage dealing disadvantage more than justyfy "different kind of damage". In the patch what boost projectiles developers specificaly said what they changed ammo damage so ppls can choose damage type regardless of damage amount. Now they changed it back how it was - every range have different damage, but they did not brought back the ammo damage amount. So now we got the worst of both changes.
And now the kick about long ranges: Railguns have 48km optimal (and much better tracking), 1400 have have 40km optimal. So you should shot at falloff with 1400. If you shot 15km at falloff, thats equal 20% less damage. So even with supposely inferior ammo lasers and hybrids still do a better damage at longer ranges than projectiles - thats not even taking into account the general damage advantage they got. Besides, long range ammo for projectiles got only 2 damage types also.
P.S. Oh, btw, arma can now equip 7th beam laser. Another boost to already best damage dealing ship in the game.
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Sally
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Posted - 2005.07.06 10:49:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Rexy
gogo sally go 
the argument about 1400t2's and tempests is getting old, bar one volley damage they are defenitly not uber as people make em out to be.
what ever happened to the proposed ammo changes to projectiles 
T2 Megathron and now T2 arma can 1-volley kill untanked cruiser just as well as tempest. And they are much better at killing tanked cruisers than tempest.
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Sally
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Posted - 2005.07.06 11:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shadowsword
That ammo fix bring projectiles back to what guns ammos are supposed to be (more range=less damage). Not a big issue...
It was exactly that way before "projectiles boosting" patch. More range = less damage. Then they reduced damage on highest damage ammo and upped damage on 3th highest damage ammo. NOW they reduced damage on 2th and 3th damage ammo. Net result after 2 patches? NERF.
I have no doubt what ppl will still fly tempest even if its damage will be reduced by another 1/3. But its not about personal taster, its about general balance.
Someone already computed damages on different T2 setups.
Arma and Geddon got 1100 DPS close range. Tempest got only 800 DPS. Thats almost 40% difference.
It was also done for long range setups with similar results - slilghtly less than 30% damage difference. And big disadvantage in tracking and range.
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Sally
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Posted - 2005.07.06 20:44:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sally on 06/07/2005 20:47:14
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Erm... Nuclear Ammo (40% range bonus) is now more damaging (28) than the Tungsten Hybrid equivalent (24). Carbonised lead (60% range bonus)already did more damage (24) than Iron ammo (20)
So it balances out...
I already said why it doesnt work that way. Projectiles have the lowest optimal from all turrets, so at equal ranges they should either use less damaging ammo or shot at fallof. If you choose to shot at falloff you lose even more damage than you gain from that extra 4 damage difference.
And btw, Apoc with Tachs got almost as high bust damage as Tempest. Certainly enouth for 1-volley kills. With roughtly 50% higher tracking and 15% higher optimal.
But the most surprising thing for me is a mentioned "Some medium and large projectile ammunition had incorrect damage values. They now deal damage as they were intended".
- I can clearly remember developers have specificaly changed EMP, PP and Fusion ammo so they deal some damage. That was a part of projectile "boost" and was diskussed to death back then. In NO way it was unintended - unless at least half of developers possesed by a shisofrenia.
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Sally
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Posted - 2005.07.07 07:56:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sally on 07/07/2005 07:56:44
Originally by: Meridius
They now deal damage as they You remember wrong.
Phased Plasma and Fusion were set for 44 damage, however, the range penalties were the same as EMP, -50%.
The problem they fixed was that PP and Fusion did the same damage as EMP just at -37.5% and -25% ranges.
That was also diskussed and then decided what either EMP, PP and Fusion ammo should deal 48 dmg with -50% range or 44 damage with different ranges. Devs was going last way back then.
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