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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1203
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Posted - 2013.01.25 13:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:Because all I see are complaints.
I would of thought the developers would of received overwhelming data and feedback from players before making such a change since it affects such a large amount of the player base but the majority of the threads are wanting a rollback until it's fixed.
It's like a select few of you have this opinion on what EVE PVE should be and screw everyone else who thinks otherwise. You want it to be more like PVP but if people wanted that then...wouldn't they go and just PVP? Why are you forcing these changes when all the threads on the matter say no thank you.
Not only that but it's broken. I mean it's doable but it's a teeth pulling experience. EWAR is out of hand and flying a drone boat is just a hassle, you basically have to babysit your drones and even then they have a tendency to pop faster that you can recall.
So I ask you: Why the drastic changes and why change it like this? Where did you get your data from that this would be the best way? Why have you re-balanced NPC AI without the rest of the PVE changes that it was obviously intended for?
*Puts flame retardant suit on*
CCP has been saying for years that they want PVE to change and be better, and the succeeded with Wormholes and Incursions. The This latest change to NPC AI wasn't a total disaster imo, but it was very much a case of CCP deviating from what made other content additions (wormholes and incursions) great.
Wormholes and Incursions were built from the ground up to work with better NPC behavior, this is why people warping into a wormhole anomaly or complex aren't WTFStomped by 25 sleeper battleships on landing (for example).
But then they tried to slap a stripped down version of the new AI onto Mission and Complex content. Content that was created "back in the day" when all the game designers could do to spice them up was "add more npcs".
When they made a DEV blog about it, many of us in the PVE community screamed and shouted at them that this would screw up a lot of things, especially if applied to high end null-sec exploration and low sec missioncontent (like Blood Raider Naval Shipyard and other complexes with lots of ewar and citadel torps). I wasn't the only one stunned when CCP FoxFour told us in that thread that he wasn't even familiar with the content in question (the specific question was about the 9/10 Fleet Staging points, because they can come from Forsaken Hubs they are among the most COMMON complexes done in null sec)
After some testing, the ccp powers that be grudgingly told us that they would not apply the new AI to overseers and tower structures because of issues that came up during testing (well DUH lol), and that has made the npc AI change at least manageable for null sec explorers like me, but the whole thing was bassakward from the start.
I know there is a LOT of old pve content, but I think a better plan tha slapping new ai on old content would have been a phasing out over time of the old dumb AI content , replacing it as they went with new NPC AI content. CCP didn't try to rebalance all the ships in the game at once (Tiercide), they took are more cautious approach, and this approach is what should have happened with Missions a Complex content.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1203
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 13:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:MainDrain wrote:
People dont like changes because they have to pay attention and it now takes slightly more effort to grind the isk! Had they dumbed the AI down to make it easier people would have complained as well.
Players like to moan, nothing they could do would please everyone. I for one am happy with the changes after the fixed the insane aggro against drones (which they admitted)
Again no one is complaining about difficulty. This is an issue of introducing half of the "rebalance of PVE" without the other. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2462718#post2462718They go on to say: "Reducing NPC numbers also allows us to better scale EW player faces on a regular basis (mainly, we are referring to missions like the Blockade here). Assigning strong EW effects to few NPCs is fine, but it becomes horribly frustrating when faced with 5 full waves of NPCs sensor dampening you, as there is little the player can do to counter it. We should be relying on gameplay players can overcome if they are smart instead of brute force mechanics." So we got the smarter AI and too many ships with EWAR. Why not wait until the whole thing is done?
Well said. I still don't understand why they took this approach instead of doing it better. CCP as a company has proved they can do pve right (incursions and wormholes), why not this too?
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1203
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 13:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Frankly about time the NPCs stopped acting like clay pigeons. Yes you have to actually be at your computer now to make piles of isk, Oh the Horror 
That's simply not true at all. The change makes AFK mssionins and such EASIER. Before I had to put medium remote reps on a permatank Domi (5 of them, one for each drone) to AFK a mission.
Not I just use a single ECM burst to keep aggro plus a single small remote rep orr nos (directed at a targeted drone) to keep full grid aggro on the domi. Haven't lost a sentry drone in weeks while still not sitting at the computer.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1203
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 14:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Frankly about time the NPCs stopped acting like clay pigeons. Yes you have to actually be at your computer now to make piles of isk, Oh the Horror  That's simply not true at all. The change makes AFK mssionins and such EASIER. Before I had to put medium remote reps on a permatank Domi (5 of them, one for each drone) to AFK a mission. Not I just use a single ECM burst to keep aggro plus a single small remote rep orr nos (directed at a targeted drone) to keep full grid aggro on the domi. Haven't lost a sentry drone in weeks while still not sitting at the computer. That sounds more like the AI needs a tweek in relation to sentries, than anything else.
Nope, it's how the AI Threat Management System works, it's the fundamental core of the New AI. |

Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1205
|
Posted - 2013.01.25 16:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Noriko Satomi wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Frankly about time the NPCs stopped acting like clay pigeons. Yes you have to actually be at your computer now to make piles of isk, Oh the Horror  That's simply not true at all. The change makes AFK mssionins and such EASIER. Before I had to put medium remote reps on a permatank Domi (5 of them, one for each drone) to AFK a mission. Not I just use a single ECM burst to keep aggro plus a single small remote rep orr nos (directed at a targeted drone) to keep full grid aggro on the domi. Haven't lost a sentry drone in weeks while still not sitting at the computer. * Fits cloaky You mission where, exactly?
Gulfonodi of course. Why do you ask?
*and the trap was set*
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1432
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:NPC AI is blech.
Does this make sense? I land in a pocket with a Myrmidon happily blazing away at the NPC's, and even though I am not even targetting the NPC's they switch aggro to me. Hrmmm...isn't that other ship blapping your buddies more of a concern, over the guy who isn't even targetting you? WTF...
And it gets better, the NPC's don't aggro me...no, they aggro my f#$ing *salvage drones*. Gosh yes, that Mrym thats been vaporizing your buds is of no consequence, there are SALVAGE DRONES ON THE FIELD!!!!
F#$)#*($#
But, the npcs are scared you were going to salvage them, beofre they died. I too fear zombie salvaging.
But yea, lots of dumb behavior by what was supposed to be "better" AI. This is why I kept saying "design a new thing from the ground up like you did with incursions and wormholes, instead of slapping a patchwork thing on top of old content".
Every time i said that some genius would pop up and say "you just want boring , Easy rats" or some such. Why some people who speak English refuse to try to understand English.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1432
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:To the OP, in regard to your question work with an assertion and ask your self a few questions, and the answer about why this disaster was implemented becomes self evident.
1. If we consider PvE income as variable revenue source, and coupled with static revenue sources, they form the entire basis of all revenue sources in the game. 2. What happens to the value of a static revenue source as a tool / weapon / instrument of power when variable revenue drops and static revenue becomes a larger piece of the whole income pie? 3. Who controls the largest sources of static revenue in the game? 4. What areas of the game were most of the game designers recruited from?
5. Where is my tinfoil hat.
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