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NanoRunner
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Posted - 2005.07.06 18:48:00 -
[31]
Got to learn to ignore little kids like djdangle who think easy mode is gaming. PEople like him can have zone wide instant AE instant kill missles and have them nerfed to only instant kill half a zone and still would complain how unfair it is :)
Heaven forbid you need to learn to play the game finally.
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Autumnleaves
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Posted - 2005.07.06 18:58:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: PhalHell
2) SharpShooter vs Missle Bombardment
Both are rank 2 skills. But Sharpshooter not only increased range but also increases chance of hitting target and increase in damage. Missile bombardment only increases range.
Answer : Missiles allways hit their targets !
Umm, no they don't.
Blew two full loads at a frig inside 10 k from a rocket launcher, thats SIXTY rockets and not one dang hit...
I'm *hoping* its just a bug at this point...
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:00:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Critta
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Critta
ello Drunk, been back about a week or so... Monty showed me the 5 vs Xetic fraps and it kind made me sign back up there and then :D
go watch my vids :)
Where, where?
Do you have access to the curse forums yet, if so I'll pm you them, theres one on eve-o video section but the other is... unreleased so far 
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Cheim
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: marioman
individual skills are counted seperate so u get a 26.5% bonus, not 23%
RoF bonuses are decreases. So 0.9 * 0.85 = 0.765, as opposed to the 0.75 with the old Missile Launcher Operation. Missile-users have lost damage and need Rapid Launch 5 and some Warhead Upgrades just to make up for it. With Warhead Upgrades 5, missiles gain damage over pre-patch.
Missiles now take longer to train than one turret for a lower damage increase than turrets get. I suppose the lower requirements for specialization skills might make up for it, but I think tech 1 is different from tech 2 and should remain so. These new skills are unnecessary, and it would have been easy to cut some to bring missile training times in line with turret training times.
Originally by: Critta
Why can nobody see that once raven pilots learn all the missile skills.... they will be DPS beasts?
Not every missile boat is a Raven. Not every Raven pilot is a PvPer. Not every missile is guided. The new ranges and speeds on guided missiles are a massive powerup in some circumstances. The eventual higher damage is a powerup. The explosion radius and velocity changes are a massive nerf in some circumstances. The new fitting requirements on some launchers are big nerfs for many ships (but not the Raven). |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:33:00 -
[35]
10% bonus on both missile range skills.
5% on the gunnery ones.
Two 'tracking' skills for missiles.
One for gunnery.
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Cheim
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Posted - 2005.07.06 19:56:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Selim
10% bonus on both missile range skills.
5% on the gunnery ones.
Two 'tracking' skills for missiles.
One for gunnery.
Tracking computers and enhancers for turrets. None for missiles.
Furthermore, missile ranges were reduced in the patch, so some of those skills are making up for lost ground. In the case of rockets and torpedos, all of the range skills are. They could have simply adjusted the velocities, flight times, explosion radii, and explosion velocities so we wouldn't need skills with 10% bonuses, but they didn't. Don't complain about the bonuses on the skills, those were set to get missiles to a predetermined endpoint. Complain about the endpoint itself. |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.07.06 20:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Cheim
Originally by: Selim
10% bonus on both missile range skills.
5% on the gunnery ones.
Two 'tracking' skills for missiles.
One for gunnery.
Tracking computers and enhancers for turrets. None for missiles.
Furthermore, missile ranges were reduced in the patch, so some of those skills are making up for lost ground. In the case of rockets and torpedos, all of the range skills are. They could have simply adjusted the velocities, flight times, explosion radii, and explosion velocities so we wouldn't need skills with 10% bonuses, but they didn't. Don't complain about the bonuses on the skills, those were set to get missiles to a predetermined endpoint. Complain about the endpoint itself.
Do you seriously think that missiles need tracking computers, when they hit at 200km for full damage?
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:18:00 -
[38]
The OP didn't even mention some races can ONLY train gunnery and fly all classes effective ships while Caldari have to train BOTH gunnery and missiles which is obviously twice as long.
Amarr ftw! Insta ammo change, free cargohold, damage mod stacking, no ammo costs and godly tanking (if anyone still tanks).
I don't even mention drones which all races have to train while only Gallente get the full benefit from them and EW which is mandatory for the Caldari Tier 1 battleship and some other ships like the Blackbird.
Is it fair missiles take as long as guns to train.
Of course it is!
What is not fair is that some can specialize in a weapon type while others (Minmataar are concerned too albeit to a lesser extent) have to spend obscene amounts of time training, training and training again.
If the devs didn't screw the level 4 mission design with mobs spawning on top of your head there would never have been an outcry against the Raven and this poor nerf as answer.
The raven was the suck for PvP before patch anyways and the only thing it was good at was taking frigates out which it can't even do anymore.
Raven now good as a sniper at 250km?
ROFLMAO! that takes the cake!
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Cheim
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Posted - 2005.07.06 21:29:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Selim
Do you seriously think that missiles need tracking computers, when they hit at 200km for full damage?
That's backwards and I never said it. Missiles were given long ranges partially to compensate for not having tracking computers. To put it another way, missiles have skills instead of modules. I'm not saying it's fair or balanced (or that it is not), but I am saying comparing turret skills to missile skills point-for-point doesn't make too much sense, whether it's the original poster doing it or you.
Side note: Only the Raven can hit with missiles at 200km. |
Mister Locke
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:06:00 -
[40]
Originally by: marshal123
Well i would like to say missles are not guns and should never have been compared to them in this way or have similar skills to learn. This is a nerf pure and simple and there is no getting away from that.
ccp needed to fix the lagg issues which is why torps have been nerfed the most cause basically all those level 4 runners in the same systems firing torps with massive explosions graphics caused lag so ccps solution is trying to stop there use all together or very rarel = less lag + very moody raven pilots who have nothing to do till they learn these skills to apropriate levels to even come close to where they were pre patch. and to say again its a nerf we do lesss damge fire rates dropped and more so that is a nerf pure and simple.
rofl nice one, funny stuff.
oh wait... you were being serious ?
You don't really know what lag is do you?
---
"It is better to have a permanent income than to be fascinating." -- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) |
Tekka
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:15:00 -
[41]
Im seriously getting sick of people whining. 
Heres a tissue for you missle whiners
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:22:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Sorja
The OP didn't even mention some races can ONLY train gunnery and fly all classes effective ships while Caldari have to train BOTH gunnery and missiles which is obviously twice as long.
Amarr ftw! Insta ammo change, free cargohold, damage mod stacking, no ammo costs and godly tanking (if anyone still tanks).
I don't even mention drones which all races have to train while only Gallente get the full benefit from them and EW which is mandatory for the Caldari Tier 1 battleship and some other ships like the Blackbird.
Is it fair missiles take as long as guns to train.
Of course it is!
What is not fair is that some can specialize in a weapon type while others (Minmataar are concerned too albeit to a lesser extent) have to spend obscene amounts of time training, training and training again.
If the devs didn't screw the level 4 mission design with mobs spawning on top of your head there would never have been an outcry against the Raven and this poor nerf as answer.
The raven was the suck for PvP before patch anyways and the only thing it was good at was taking frigates out which it can't even do anymore.
Raven now good as a sniper at 250km?
ROFLMAO! that takes the cake!
Minmatar need to train missiles too.
You cant stack damage mods?
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Zenst
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Posted - 2005.07.06 23:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: MindBender
OK time to shut up the "turret users have always needed to train skills" people. Lets take a look at the true differences by comparing the skills.
1) Rapid fire vs Rapid Launch
Both are rank 2 skills but turret users get a 4% bonus as opposed to missle usres getting a 3% bonus
2) SharpShooter vs Missle Bombardment
Both are rank 2 skills. But Sharpshooter not only increased range but also increases chance of hitting target and increase in damage. Missile bombardment only increases range.
3) Motion prediction vs Guided Missle Precision
Motion Prediction is a rank 2 skill Guided Missle Presision is a rank 5 skill. both giving you 5% better chance of hitting small fast targets.
4) Surgical Strike vs Warhead upgrades
SS is a rank 4 skill and grants a 3% increase to dmg but Warhead Upgrades is a rank 5 skill and only grants a 2% bonus.
These are just a few examples.
This is not a rant against the new skills. I agree they were needed but I am tired of hearing the gunnery only pilots rant that they have always needed to train skills. I have over 5mil SP in gunnery so I know what is needed in training gunnery skills.
Ahh but you mist the most important one, DMG type.
I dont see:
EM warhead skills for small meadium and large
Thermal...
Kenetic
Explosive.
For the training and effect Missiles still win hands down.
Do you need rocket specialisation to train l5 small launcher or heavy ...cruiser or Seige launcher.
I'd say missile uses got a good deal and are screaming for sunblock before the changes even settle in and they have adjusted to them.
I know that seasoned Missile users are more than happy with these skills. take Tank CEO he is renounded for his missile proness and Raven skill. What does he fly today. A raven still.
Tank CEO still users a raven post missile changes then to say missiles are totaly messed up does not makes sence.
If Tank CEO still fly's a Raven then you must ignore all these missile rants until the dust has setteled and let the facts speak for themselves.
Good night.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:02:00 -
[44]
You should hear Tank-CEO whine in #eve-online though ...
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:03:00 -
[45]
"You should hear Tank-CEO whine in #eve-online though ... "
Someone post logs \o/
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dailyhazard
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Posted - 2005.07.07 00:04:00 -
[46]
nah i will just post this from nourvukaiken local earlier:
ed jeni>Attention - Tank ceo is in tama trying to gank people
ed jeni> i stress trying, cos he aint doing well
:D
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