Cause it would be a horrible looking FPS?

because if i had to pay that much attention, i'd be doing something worth more isk/hour. it's honestly that simple.

The only way then it can possibly get more attention then it has at the current moment in the eve universe then it will HAVE to have a better isk/hour or it won't get any attention at all! You are stating the obvious i love it! So it really is that simple make it more fun but the only way to make it more fun is to get rid of all thses pesky belts and have a dramatically less belts which makes it worth to fight over leading to way more isk/hour!

You consider mining an activity in EVE? Have you ever played eve fullscreen no music, no other game running, but just fullscreen while mining with the game sounds? I find it quite boring to be considered a real activity. CCP could turn mining around into one of the best aspects in eve instead of a click and wait ACTIVITY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRBXYsMuV4A

BOOM KABLAM SPLAT

Now this is what it should be!

miners would never want to be away from their keyboard missing the awesome action and suspense of fighting over the roids!!

I find it quite disturbing that you don't seem to be reading... Ok so you say that by requiring miners to have more attention for the same isk/hour is useless. Agreed. But what I have said is that if you increase the isk/hour and the requirements you having somethign new and amazing. How? Well I say get rid of 90% of the belts like I have said. Now I know this seems like magic but I think if CCP made this fake universe where magic can "exist" (Yay i love magic! ) then they are able to "Magically" get rid of some belts. Mining right now is not how it is has to be...

I find it quite disturbing that you don't seem to be reading... Ok so you say that by requiring miners to have more attention for the same isk/hour is useless. Agreed. But what I have said is that if you increase the isk/hour and the requirements you having somethign new and amazing. How? Well I say get rid of 90% of the belts like I have said. Now I know this seems like magic but I think if CCP made this fake universe where magic can "exist" (Yay i love magic! ) then they are able to "Magically" get rid of some belts. Mining right now is not how it is has to be...

also, how much crying do you think there will be from americans and australians when they log in and there's nothing for them to mine because every one in europe has already stripped all of the asteroids from high sec because you just got rid of 90% of the asteroid belts?

i did read it, but magically getting rid of 90% of belts isn't going to make mining more interactive or fun or anything. infact it's going to do the opposite.

also, how much crying do you think there will be from americans and australians when they log in and there's nothing for them to mine because every one in europe has already stripped all of the asteroids from high sec because you just got rid of 90% of the asteroid belts?

can you please think before you post?

I wouldn't mind shaking things up a bit. But then again I'm not a miner. :)

This happens already; depending on the region you're in. Well, bar the crying because Australians are made of sterner stuff.

With 90% Less belts and you put the less valuable minerals strictly in highsec and the more valuable ones strictly in low/null then you have GREATLY made null a more profitable place and maybe belts can respawn more or corps can recruit the now awesome activity of mining from all timezones to defend their most profitable thing in eve aka BIG PICTURE

Why isn't mining in EVE like THIS?!?!

no you haven't. null sec has an infinite amount of asteroids, high sec does not. hence low end minerals become even more of a bottleneck than they already are. honestly, you are completely clueless on mining works so just stop spewing bad ideas. please. for all our sakes.

you're not looking at the big picture, you're looking at a different game.

OP has obviously never tried to mine in low-sec.

Mr. Stark I believe you have just crossed the line of no return of sillynes to the max.... Getting rid of 90% of belts would then get rid of the infinite belts... Making low end materials even less valuable and making our expensive ones very high and profitable....

no it wouldn't get rid of the infinite belts; because you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. not to mention those infinite belts in 0.0 don't provide low end materials, that's half of the problem with 0.0 industry at the moment, the lack of low end minerals.

honestly, go and find out how mining works and THEN we can have this discussion where i'm not simply informing you how the game works because you decided to make suggestions on part of a game you know nothing about.

So those infinite belts dont provide low end materials eh? I hate to say it but you kinda wrong. I would probably say there is too much Veldspar to count...

If mining paid better, there would be much more fighting over it. Mining should pay 10x what it does now.

Large Asteroid Cluster
Bloodtear Industry Index Report
List of ores contained within:
Ore Amount Asteroids
Arkonor 65,000 1
Bistot 150,000 1
Crokite 40,000 1
Dark Ochre 50,000 1
Gneiss 60,000 1
Hedbergite 80,000 1
Hemorphite 80,000 1
Jaspet 120,000 1
Kernite 400,000 4
Mercoxit 10,000 1
Omber 400,000 3
Plagioclase 0 0
Pyroxeres 0 0
Scordite 300,000 2
Spodumain 50,000 1
Veldspar 0 0

wrong, was i?

I have no idea where you got that info man..

Well first lets just take a look at the definition..

Veldspar is the most commonly found ore in New Eden, populating asteroid belts in every corner of space. When refined it yields a large portion of tritanium, one of the fundamental ingredients in star ship construction.

Corporations with access to a Rorqual or Orca will quickly see the benefits of harvesting veldspar en masse instead of attempting to squeeze valuable minerals out of much smaller asteroids.

Now I had no idea that HighSec allowed Rorquals into their space to mine Veldspar in masses. This can only mean that they mine Veldspar aka low end mineral in low/null sec. Mr. Stark. (Now I know your next post will be how Rorquals don't even mine ore, trying to go offtopic are we? But the functions of the rorqual deal with mining so much.)

Your idea wouldn't work OP for one simple reason; if miners wanted to PEW PEW we would be out PEW PEWing and not sitting around blasting rocks.

Your idea would be similar to tieing all PEW PEW PvP to mining; which ever side clears out the asteroid fields first wins and the other side loses their ships (they just disappear with no glorious explosion or kill-mail)

You are saying this same thing over and over. You just said that there isn't enough low end ore to mine in nullsec but there is.

From what I see that index looks pretty old.

Should I inform myself that I need to do my few clicks every 15 minutes or so???

yep, so much low end ore in null sec that trit/pyerite etc is imported in jump freighters full of railguns used to compress the minerals. right ho, they just use jump freighters for fun right?

sure it's old, but you know what's older? grav sites, they haven't changed since that report was produced except the isk/hour values, which are irrelevant. the composition of the grav sites are still the same, and it's still a perfectly valid resource.

see, the fact that instead of going and learning about the activity you're proposing changes for, you're just making stupid comments.

i know, how about we remove rat bounties and all missions above level 3 because it's an isk faucet! see, i can make stupid comments on a subject i know nothing about too!

Why do people jump freight lots of low end minerals? Because they need the stuff at the right place at the right time maybe they dont even want to deal with mining but we are talking about the actual mining here not when it is used and how it is used.

Actually it is the other way around I struck down your objection and you won't admit that it won't hurt for a change in mining...

actually, we'd just stop mining because if we have to be at the keyboard we'd be doing other activities that weren't such poor isk/hour.

Less miners -> less ore mined -> less ore sold -> ore worth more -> ISK/hour goes up.

Of course it's a horrible idea to make mining require more activity without also modifying some mining mechanics such as how ores are distributed etc., but my point still stands.

Less miners -> less ore mined -> less ore sold -> ore worth more -> ISK/hour goes up.

Of course it's a horrible idea to make mining require more activity without also modifying some mining mechanics such as how ores are distributed etc., but my point still stands.

Less miners -> less ore mined -> less ore sold -> ore worth more -> ISK/hour goes up.

Of course it's a horrible idea to make mining require more activity without also modifying some mining mechanics such as how ores are distributed etc., but my point still stands.

You consider mining an activity in EVE? Have you ever played eve fullscreen no music, no other game running, but just fullscreen while mining with the game sounds? I find it quite boring to be considered a real activity. CCP could turn mining around into one of the best aspects in eve instead of a click and wait ACTIVITY.

It is not about just changing mechanics if you read but the whole idea of mining as a whole! And for earlier i struck down the fact that you said that there is no low end minerals to mine in nullsec but then i went to the eve fact book (EVElopedia) and quoted that veldspar is found in masses throughout EVE INCLUDING nullsec

Mining IS an activity, where the not-fun players have discussions between their won alts about how [insert player name here] is such a baws and has sex like 80 times a day.


Mining is also an activity for REAL players... to invite their australian pvp-corp buddies to come hang in a highsec belt drunk and jabber over comms about rugby and kangaroos kickboxing foreigners who cry at the first sign of a giant spider, while using drones to try to kill eachother and steal vekldspar.

maybe MY experience in a mining corp was a little odd i suppose.

You consider mining an activity in EVE? Have you ever played eve fullscreen no music, no other game running, but just fullscreen while mining with the game sounds? I find it quite boring to be considered a real activity. CCP could turn mining around into one of the best aspects in eve instead of a click and wait ACTIVITY.

Why isn't mining in EVE like THIS?!?!

Because half the player base would quit if they had to learn to play a WASD controlled game.

Mr Epeen

If you don't like mining, don't do it.

I wouldn't mind shaking things up a bit. But then again I'm not a miner. :)

He doesn't.

i think you need to understand what "proof" is, because that quote wasn't it. besides in your idea you took 90% of it out... so, y'know...

I guess you GOT ME there! Well heres the link that there is veldspar in nullsec buddy. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Veldspar

I was trying to help save some time from reading all the unimportant stuff to the discussion but if you must there you go!

What if belts and the re spawn rates of those belts remained just as it is today, except that you can purchase mining rights (in high sec) that allow you to not only use those belts exclusively but to defend them against would be claim jumpers?

This sounds interesting, and deserves looking in to.

sounds like a sarcastic reference to miner bumpers.

because if i had to pay that much attention, i'd be doing something worth more isk/hour. it's honestly that simple.

Right, big effort for little gain = not worth doing.

no you haven't. null sec has an infinite amount of asteroids,

Based on personal experience, and the fact that it is a programming impossibility, I think this is incorrect.

Your quoting is absolutely ridiculous There won't be more effort unless there is more reward.....

In fact, I could see a strong case being made for tweaking mineral distribution slightly if this were done.

Unclaimed belt: All normal "standard" varieties of ore available (as now), but none of the higher yield versions.

Actively claimed belt: Depending on the level of activity by the members of the corp claiming the belt, the higher yeild varieties of those same ore's start to become available.

Thus giving better productivity, thus providing a reason for others to try and leach off the claim (or jump the claim and wrest control of it away), thus giving a reason to defend them, thus giving a reason for actually well rounded mining corps to form and recruit, thus giving a reason to solo miners to seriously consider joining or forming this type of corp.

And most importantly giving high sec residents not only a sense of ownership, but a reason for that to be desireable.

Currently high sec miners only see action against residents of null that are suicide ganking, or rogue war dec corps.. and often don't have a desire (or more importantly, a reason) to organize or to defend themselves.

Afterwards you would very likely see conflicts and eventually wars between different mining concerns, motivated solely by the desire for profit and power. You would see wars waged and actively pursued by both sides for the very same reason large conflicts happen in 0.0. You could also very well see a spike in mercenary use from those successful organizations that would rather spend some of their profits getting others to do their dirty work or defend their interests from hostile take over.

Perhaps eventually similar mechanics could be introduced to other forms of industry and commerce, providing even more reason for high sec residents to covet certain area's or resources, and enter into physical or economic conflict over them.

Perhaps.

and if there's more effort then you won't be able to do it on about 8 accounts at once (slight exaggeration, but the point stands) so people won't get more reward, at all.

you don't mine, you've already said so, and demonstrated how clueless you are because of that fact. i'll give you 10/10 for the trolling though.

That is a nice hyperbole there! So it is bad now if you can make good isk with one account while doing something really awesome and exciting with your corpmates!

But this would only work for corps with 24 hour / day mining ops in each system they're active in.

If a corp doesn't have anyone to sign-on immediately after DT all the best ore in their claimed belt (and quite likely all the ore in the belt) will be gone by the time they get there. How will they be able to defend themselves?

The large 24 hour mining / day corps eat their way through multiple belts per shift.

The large mining corps would be able to outbid all the smaller mining corps for mining rights anyway.

If mining paid better, there would be much more fighting over it. Mining should pay 10x what it does now.

The only way it can pay better is if CCP got rid of 90% of belts and 8% of the remaining belts were in lowsec and nullsec making the supply much less but the supply has to be scattered equally though.

The isk is bad right now I'm talking about if changes are made and mining isn't the way it should be doing it completley solo. It needs to bring people together to be able to make mroe isk like Ranger1 has said

And people would fight over it, and ships would die... and not be replaced due to scarcity of materials. Remaining ships would be come outrageously expensive in game-terms, and would become perma-docked for fear of loss. Soon, there would be very few miners left - and those which *were* left would be able to mine the recduced belts in peace and quiet due the lack of other ships... and other players.

Thats not a bad point there. Maybe a defense system can be implimented for belts that are "claimed" by the system that Ranger1 has suggested and each defense mod bought adds more cost to the fee you must pay

or we could just leave it alone because the system is perfectly fine as it is?

or we could just leave it alone because the system is perfectly fine as it is?

actually OP, how does this sound?

allowing you to take control of a system, and install upgrades. to install upgrades you have to mine ore, the more ore you mine the better upgrades you can install.
these upgrades will make more gravametric sites spawn in your system, containing rarer ores. also in systems you control, you could shoot enemies without getting concord aggression.

how does that sound?

Kinda sounds like Command and Conquer. I don't really think you should be able to claim the actual system but to just take control of a belt and have upgrades seen on the belt. But yeah that is kinda like what Ranger has said where the belt is your little patch of heaven

Consider this.

What if belts and the re spawn rates of those belts remained just as it is today, except that you can purchase mining rights (in high sec) that allow you to not only use those belts exclusively but to defend them against would be claim jumpers?

To maintain your mining rights you would need to pay a fee to the local empire, and would need to maintain a certain minimum level of mining activity in those belts. If your mining activity drops below that threshold, you lose your exclusive rights to that belt.

If someone comes in and begins mining in your belt, you have the option to open fire on the claim jumper and his corp without the need for a formal declaration of war for the remainder of that day to protect your claim. Of course, once fired upon that pilot can return fire. Advantage goes to the defending corp as they can pick and choose whom to open fire upon, although during the time period of the ensuing limited engagement the claim jumper can of course choose to reship just as they can now.

Now if I see a belt that I want to work that is already claimed I have all of the options currently available to me, including suicide ganking and war declaration, to use to drive productivity down in that belt to the point where I can claim it for my own. Of course, I now have to maintain the minimum level of output to hold my claim (and pay the appropriate fee).

Options would be opened up on both sides of the coin, with a minimum of fiddling around with current game mechanics.

Obviously the details would have to be examined and balanced.

I have always thought it odd that valuable resources could not be legally claimed, fought over, and defended even in high sec. The problem as been that there was no advantage or game mechanic in place to do so. Why form a large mining corp (with some level of self defense capability) when there is little to gain (other than some productivity gains) from working together as opposed to every miner for himself (and an alt or two).

I think we could and should consider allowing claims to be filed on resources such as asteroid belts and let people have another point of contention.

Make it profitable to work together to "own" a resource, and people will work together to do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRBXYsMuV4A

BOOM KABLAM SPLAT

Now this is what it should be!

Mining currently sucks, I don't think very many people will seriously dispute that (social chatty time factors aside).

I don't necessarily think mining should be much more profitable over all. Rather I think that the focus should be on making it so that well organized groups of miners reap significantly higher rewards than solo or loose groups do. In this way those that choose to remain solo get very basic ore to grind through AFK or whatever. But those that engage more fully in the activity reap noticable rewards, providing motivation to organize as well as motivation to protect what they have.

This is something that is currently sorely lacking.

The only motivation now is to at least have someone around (or an alt) providing gang links and some sort of hauling activity efficient enough to support a small group at most. Many don't even bother with this as the difference is not significant, and that is fine. But there are those out there that WOULD get serious about it and organize if they could achieve not only significantly higher profits but a sense of ownership as well.

Solo miners would not be overly penalized (in fact ninja mining would become much more interesting and a high sec activity), while those willing to organize and claim those resources as their own (and protect them) would have a very good reason to do so.

I dont see any actual mining in that .....

From the clip it just appears to be yet another twitch-based space combat sim ..
im not saying thats a bad thing, just the name doesnt really correlate too well with the viewed gameplay.

All you have to do is see all that action happening when you are defending or attacking a belt and then there can be all the mining in eve right now

Mining currently sucks, I don't think very many people will seriously dispute that (social chatty time factors aside).

I don't necessarily think mining should be much more profitable over all. Rather I think that the focus should be on making it so that well organized groups of miners reap significantly higher rewards than solo or loose groups do. In this way those that choose to remain solo get very basic ore to grind through AFK or whatever. But those that engage more fully in the activity reap noticable rewards, providing motivation to organize as well as motivation to protect what they have.

This is something that is currently sorely lacking.

The only motivation now is to at least have someone around (or an alt) providing gang links and some sort of hauling activity efficient enough to support a small group at most. Many don't even bother with this as the difference is not significant, and that is fine. But there are those out there that WOULD get serious about it and organize if they could achieve not only significantly higher profits but a sense of ownership as well.

Solo miners would not be overly penalized (in fact ninja mining would become much more interesting and a high sec activity), while those willing to organize and claim those resources as their own (and protect them) would have a very good reason to do so.

There aren't enough belts to make your plan viable. Furthermore, mining is fine. As a mechanic it supplies the materials for players to build things.

the day they turn mining in to a ****** quick time event is the day i cancel every account of mine, except one, and then sit and contemplate canceling that one too.

the simple fact is, any one with multiple miners will drop accounts. unless you're the octopus man you can't play 2, 3, 4, or 8 quicktime events at once. nobody wants miners dropping accounts. ccp will lose revenue and every one else will have to spend more time earning isk as their purchasing power diminishes as prices rise due to lower supply.

people do organise and get serious about it; they're called multiboxers. people mining in groups who aren't multiboxers that actually get anything out of it are often new players being given offensive prices for their ore because they're new with low sp, and don't know any better or are in a position where multiple accounts aren't an option for them.
the very simple fact is that mining with other people does nothing but kill your isk/hour, which let's face it is the reason they mine aside from the fact you can do it while mostly afk.

I think you may be confusing some of the points I made with others that have been offered through out the thread (perfectly understandable, it's been back and forth quite a bit).

My central point is that being able to acquire mineral rights in high sec would provide strong reasons to organize and defend those belts by providing tangible increases in profits and a strong sense of ownership. The only downside for the loner would be that higher yeild ore would be more difficult to find unless you choose to ninja mine from an "owned" belt.

Old play styles are not overly disrupted, newer and more interactive play styles are encouraged. A sense of ownership is finally brought to high sec space.

I really don't follow why you think people would stop mining.

As a side note, mining with other people in an organized group (even under the current rules set) enhances your yield due to gang links and organized hauling procedures. This is why small groups (or serious multiboxers running dozens of accounts) do it to begin with. But there is little sense of ownership, no reason to stay in one area or defend that area, and the increase in profit is not significant enough to sufficiently reward the players for their organizational efforts.

If a person wanted to continue mining AFK and solo, there would certain be nothing to stop him.

i was mainly referring to you saying "engage more fully", because to me that implied something that perhaps you never implied. no matter.

i don't think it would, because red frog is 500k per jump last i checked, moving 1 system out is going to be cheaper than buying mineral rights, i'll wager. especially when you're paying roughly 500k per 800m-1bn isk of minerals. i think my average red frog shipment on an almost full freighter is anywhere between 800-950m isk in minerals.

i don't get bonuses for mining with other people, i already have an orca. some one else providing gang links just turns my orca pilot in to a glorified hauler so i'm still not gaining anything. if some one else's orca is hauling for me as well, then obviously i'm going to have to cut them in on my profits.... so i may as well get my own orca and not be subject to their afk breaks, and their play time. mining with other accounts is more profitable, mining with other people is not. subtle but important difference there.

the problem is, there shouldn't be a reason to stay and defend an area in high sec; high sec space is owned by the npc corporations/factions/whatever. if you want to defend and fight over resources etc, go to 0.0. there's really no reason to turn high sec in to 0.0 avec concord. it makes no sense.

i still don't really see why high sec mining should change, it works fine and there's nothing wrong with it. i haven't met a miner who dislikes the way mining works. i have a feeling, if you asked a bunch of miners, you'd probably get replies that border on "because i can do it on several accounts at once without diminishing returns like multiboxing anoms/l4s" or "because i can do it while i do my homework/housework/rub one out/walk the hamster etc". i doubt you'll find many people who will say "mining needs changing because it's terrible but i do it day in day out because i like self harm".

the things wrong with mining is not high sec asteroid belts, not the mechanics of mining, but other things like the composition of null sec grav sites, the failed ship rebalance, the lack of reason to mine with others.

Not enough belts? So basically you are saying that this would be wildly popular and everyone would be doing it.

To be perfectly honest,f there is competition eventually for available belts, so much the better. However I doubt that will happen outside of the more populated area's.

I don't quite follow what your last point is. Of course as a mechanic it supplies building materials. Are you suggesting that if every belt in high sec was privately own and harvested, with a larger number of high density ore than we commonly see today because they have been developed, that we would see mineral shortages? If so, that doesn't make too much sense to me.

No way man! Imagine it with eve graphics and we got all these ventures flying around blasting through asteroids having a war would be too awesome. Then all of a sudden a Rorqual slowly comes into view from behind a giant asteroid using its mining lasers as weapons (if it had any, Capital Strip Miner FTW!) tearing apart through the fleet of ventures gaining him control of the valuable asteroid belt. Making mining fun and have the ISK pay be more because this is less supply would be crazy awesome.

Nope! No at all, just that there are too many miners compared to belts. No my last point is that minerals don't have any effect on EVE outside of the stuff they build. Players buy minerals from miners then build stuff with them. Having another point of contention built around something that makes the game work would break the game.

Mining permits and other ideas have been tried before by in game players,and it leads to less mining period. Less mining means less stuff. Less stuff means higher prices. Higher prices means more risk. More risk means players with low risk tolerances, the majority of players, will not participate. Majority of players not participating in a mmo means the players go elsewhere. Players going elsewhere means CCP has to eat dog food to survive... Why do you want CCP to eat dog food?

...there is nothing wrong with high sec belts except that they can not be owned or developed.
... the current mechanics of mining are only acceptable if you chose to do it in an AFK manner.
... null sec grav sites are another issue entirely.
...I think you'd be hard pressed to find a miner that believes the ship rebalance was "fail".
...and yes, while there is incentive to mine with others (if you are intelligent about it) you are correct that there is not sufficient incentive to justify it being done more commonly. Thus the current discussion.

that's not an issue with high sec belts. you can already do this in null sec. we do NOT need to turn high sec in to nullsec with concord. it's ********.

no, the current mechanics of mining are just acceptable full stop. there's nothing wrong with how mining works, it's identical to how ratting works. target, hit f1, wait until target vanishes.

agreed they are another issue entirely, but what you're suggesting is basically turning high sec belts into null sec grav sites give or take a few small details.

depends how you define "fail" sure overall all the ships are better, but they are in no way balanced. look at the graphs ccp produced. all that has happened is every one sold their hulks and brought macks. we've gone from king hulk to king mack and the situation they tried to get away from still exists, hence it failed at balancing the ships.

no, there isn't an incentive to mine with other people. only with more accounts.

I'm sorry Dave, but most of the points you just listed are HIGHLY debatable... and most people just simply would not agree with your assessment.

High sec mining, indeed mining in general, has been one of the most requently requested mechanics in game to be redesigned or iterated on. As only one example remember all of those discussions about ring mining?

The ability to own and develop a resource is a mechanic that works well in Null yes... and is sorely lacking in high sec. Just because you are in the domain of a major faction, there is no reason why various resources cannot be privately owned or access rights to them procured.

There are very few similarities between this and a null sec grav site. Yes you can develop both in a way, but that is where the similarity ends. You can't own an anom, it isn't stationary, and it isn't in public space (it's usually deep in your own sov).

Macks are more common now because there are far more solo miners than organized groups, and under the current conditions the Mack lends itself more readily to high sec solo players, and they are the vast majority of miners. Wouldn't it be nice if that were to change.

You are correct, there is currently not enough incentive to mine with large groups. That is one of the points being made, that we should look at a variety of ways to change that (among other things). I will point out that this rather flies in the face of your proclamation that "mining is fine as is", as since there is little incentive to cooperate with others there is obviously a shortcoming there. While solo play should not be penalized, group cooperation should be rewarded.

Mining in large groups is wasteful. IMHO. There should never be more than 4 Exhumers in one belt because there are few systems that have more than four types of ore. Put 12 Exhumers in one belt and they are forced to 'mine over' each other.

BTW, clearing a belt, or even a certain type of ore, is a bad thing if you mine every day. Clear a belt of an ore type, and you go into the three day cycle. That belt won't be worth mining for 3 days.

Optimal? Mine one belt less than you have Orcas. The odd Orca keeps the other ones empty. Same number of mining ships as ore types per belt.

not to mention 12 hulks in a belt will strip a belt very quickly then you have to warp 12 ships to the next belt, etc, where as if you spread them out they all warp once and that's it.

Signs of intelligence? Maybe I under-estimated you. Sorry.

You need to have multiple accounts to make enough money for it to be efficient.

Heres how mining works in Eve.

You need to have multiple accounts to make enough money for it to be efficient.

CCP therefore loves miners.

Is that the Wolfenstein engine?

If mining paid better, there would be much more fighting over it. Mining should pay 10x what it does now.

You know how to make mining pay better?

Kill all the other miners.