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CCP... The Simple Solution to the NPC Corp Issue

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FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2551	Posted - 2013.01.29 02:18:00 - [1] - Quote I still like my idea best: add a role-playing element to NPC corps to make them harder to live in. Specifically, have them routinely change their relationships with various corps and empires so that your membership in an NPC corp can make it hard to get by. If Perkone is suddenly disliked by the Caldari Navy and members of Perkone can no longer dock in Jita 4-4, you can be those NPC corps will suddenly become a lot less appealing. It could affect docking permissions, agent and facility availability, tax rates, everything. It would make long-term residence in NPC corps almost unbearable. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2551	Posted - 2013.01.29 02:29:00 - [2] - Quote Okay, after catching up on the thread, I see a particular thing repeated over and over again by NPC corp members: "I'm not interested in PVP" Great. Don't buy or sell anything. Don't use up any station research or manufacturing slots. Don't mine, either, because someone else might want those rocks. Because all those things compete directly with other people for limited resources, and are part of the PVP world that is Eve. The problem with NPC corps, for those who still don't grasp it, is that they protect players from one major aspect of PVP--combat--while allowing them to participate in the rest of it with no consequence beyond a piddling tax on the NPC bounties they might collect. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2552	Posted - 2013.01.29 02:33:00 - [3] - Quote Sean Parisi wrote: Dave Stark wrote: [quote=Sean Parisi]they are already penalized for being in an NPC corp. not really. They cannot claim sov - nor can player corps. That's an alliance-level thing. they do not have access to standings - Not a problem for them, given how they play the game. they are unable to save the 11% tax rate. - As has been stated, most of them don't engage in taxed activities. They have to rely on the use of public slots as opposed to establishing their own POS - possibly the only real down side. which can be used for moon mining - not in highsec, where most NPC characters live. They cannot declare war on other people. - because they would ever want to? They're hiding in NPC corps. They don't want war. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2552	Posted - 2013.01.29 04:13:00 - [4] - Quote Mayhaw Morgan wrote: FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Okay, after catching up on the thread, I see a particular thing repeated over and over again by NPC corp members: "I'm not interested in PVP" . . . State War Academy Center for Advanced Studies Republic Military School Viziam etc., etc., etc. Try again. Because that totally negates the point I was making... Wait, no it doesn't. Just because some people in NPC corps do PVP doesn't mean they all do. The fact is, a LOT of peopl are using them as shelters from combat while continuing to engage in other PVP aspects of the game. This is imbalanced and frankly needs to be ended. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2554	Posted - 2013.01.29 15:28:00 - [5] - Quote Mayhaw Morgan wrote: He said we don't do ship combat against other players No, I didn't. Your entire argument was based on that fabrication. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2554	Posted - 2013.01.29 15:49:00 - [6] - Quote Skeln Thargensen wrote: FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Just because some people in NPC corps do PVP doesn't mean they all do. The fact is, a LOT of peopl are using them as shelters from combat while continuing to engage in other PVP aspects of the game. This is imbalanced and frankly needs to be ended. you'll have to end multiple characters /accounts then. why would I do PvP on this character when he's not skilled for combat? I'm not skilled to make optimal use of the market, yet I participate in that. Besides, this isn't about forcing you to fight. This is about you being vulnerable to it. NPC characters today are able to engage in every aspect of non-combat PVP except competition for POS locations, and yet they're granted immunity to wardecs. Skeln Thargensen wrote: Why would I hoard SP on one character when clone costs are potentially more than my ships? No one said you had to. Skeln Thargensen wrote: how can i join a pvp corp with my other character when they explicitly forbid you to have alts in player corps? I've never known a PVP corp that forbade its members from having alts on player corps. CERTAIN player corps, yes, but lots of the PVP corp members I know have various PVE alts in player corps. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2554	Posted - 2013.01.29 17:30:00 - [7] - Quote Skeln Thargensen wrote: I am not a single entity so I cannot be attacked like one nor do I need the protection of a corp because of that. this is why removing npc corps is just futile. I'll simply change my playstyle and you still don't have highsec war targets. I don't even have to set foot in highsec if I don't want to. I don't need to undock I can jump clone all over the place and contract everything. I can log out in space. i can go AFK cloaky. i could go on but hopefully the futility of this wish is now clear. we will adapt and let the game shape our decisions and playstyle. Using jumpclones and afk cloaking and logging in space are ways to avoid confrontation, but they do NOT guarantee your safety. They're methods of avoidance. NPC corp membership means you can do whatever you want, because the ONLY way someone can engage you in combat in highsec is with a gank. Huge difference there. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2554	Posted - 2013.01.30 01:54:00 - [8] - Quote Skeln Thargensen wrote: FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Skeln Thargensen wrote: I am not a single entity so I cannot be attacked like one nor do I need the protection of a corp because of that. this is why removing npc corps is just futile. I'll simply change my playstyle and you still don't have highsec war targets. I don't even have to set foot in highsec if I don't want to. I don't need to undock I can jump clone all over the place and contract everything. I can log out in space. i can go AFK cloaky. i could go on but hopefully the futility of this wish is now clear. we will adapt and let the game shape our decisions and playstyle. Using jumpclones and afk cloaking and logging in space are ways to avoid confrontation, but they do NOT guarantee your safety. They're methods of avoidance. NPC corp membership means you can do whatever you want, because the ONLY way someone can engage you in combat in highsec is with a gank. Huge difference there. to my playstyle yes, to yours no. you will still find me unavailable to be pew pewed. I will simply change my style to thwart your wardec. You seem insistent on this idea that I'm trying to compel you to allow me to shoot you. I'm not. In fact, anyone who is able to continue operating while under the threat of a wardec deserve praise for their ability to adapt. Again: I don't want to force you to fight. I want to force you to react. This is all about the fact that NPC corp characters are able to affect the market without any penalty while being immune to wardecs. Their playstyle impacts mine, and then they complain when I ask for the ability to impact theirs. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2554	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:12:00 - [9] - Quote Aether Serval wrote: Retribution, notable for the crime watch changes the decimated hi sec mission griefing and made acts like can flipping some npc corp member flag you as free for all. Decimated mission griefing? I do it more now than ever before. Retribution made it fun, especially considering how many carebears out there have NO idea how aggression works, even with the new idiot-friendly system. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2554	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:20:00 - [10] - Quote Wow. This thread has been busy. To sum up a lot of what I'm reading here, there are quite a few NPC corp carebears insisting that their way of playing Eve is legitimate and they should be left alone to influence the market how they see fit while the rest of us are unable to influence their ability to conduct their carebear activities without expensive suicide ganks. Once again: if you can opt out of combat, I should have the right to opt out of the market and get all my items spawned on an NPC market at fixed prices. I don't want to buy stuff made from your ore. Let me play Eve my way. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2554	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:23:00 - [11] - Quote Not Politically Correct wrote: I wasn't aware that NPC corps were a problem. ?? They aren't, so long as you don't mind NPC freighters full of goods built from ore mined by NPC exhumers being sold to NPC missioners, all of them influencing the market while being immune to any attempt at interference short of a suicide gank. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2554	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:25:00 - [12] - Quote Aether Serval wrote: FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Aether Serval wrote: Retribution, notable for the crime watch changes the decimated hi sec mission griefing and made acts like can flipping some npc corp member flag you as free for all. Decimated mission griefing? I do it more now than ever before. Retribution made it fun, especially considering how many carebears out there have NO idea how aggression works, even with the new idiot-friendly system. Really I thought the whole safety system ruined the bear baiting, suppose if they are that dumb guess they deserve it. You have to disengage your safeties to become a suspect, not to shoot one. It's remarkable how many of them think that green dot means we can't shoot back. They should really READ THE DOCUMENTATION. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2554	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:39:00 - [13] - Quote A few more ideas I've been toying with. Making NPC corps less attractive: - Additional refinery fees for NPC corp members to penalize neutral miners. - Additional market fees for NPC corp members to penalize neutral traders. - Restricting trades/contracts between NPC and player corp members. This prevents people simply passing goods between alts to avoid the fees suggested above. Also makes neutral haulers more difficult to use. Basically it should always be better/easier to be in a player corp, except for the risk of a wardec. And making player corps more attractive: - Enhanced leadership bonuses for in-corp fleet boosters (also provides a benefit to those willing to risk an in-corp booster during war) - Passive bonuses for operating in the same constellation as the corporation's home office. This will encourage players to operate in the same area. - There needs to be a third bullet point here, but I can't think of one right now. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2554	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:52:00 - [14] - Quote Skeln Thargensen wrote: I'm not complaining, i'm just pointing out how futile it is to change this. I can learn corporate management in 8m. if it costs me a couple of million to set up a corp I'll tear it down in a new york minute and you might as well have bountied me. this is the reaction you want? 50M down the tubes and I'm laughing at you. No, the ability to disband or drop from a corp at war is another part of the problem of actions without consequences. Eve's all about long-term consequences, and wardecs are a part of that. If you form a corporation you can't defend from a handful of guys and you refuse to hire mercenaries to defend you, get ready to stay docked up or take losses. Want to know how easy it is to defend against MOST of these griefer outfits who wardec small indy corps? I coached some friends through their first wardec a while back. They put a bait miner in a belt with a cloaked falcon and pilgrim on grid. When the aggressors showed up (two of them) they spent the entire fight jammed out by a falcon and ECM drones. Those guys have since become quite a successful industrial corp. They don't win every fight, but they've got teeth enough that they don't see much action these days unless they go looking for it. Most griefers won't go after a corp that has 12-15 PVP ships on every kill in their killboard. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2555	Posted - 2013.01.30 06:19:00 - [15] - Quote Not Politically Correct wrote: Floppy, what you are trying to do is called rationalization by psychologists. You are hoping that, if you say the right things, in the right ways, enough times, someone will believe that you don't have a problem after all. Try harder. :) What problem are you suggesting I have? Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2555	Posted - 2013.01.30 06:20:00 - [16] - Quote Skeln Thargensen wrote: Can you comprehend I would have a warchest and contingency plans to evade this sort of thing if i were deccable? It's like you aren't even reading what I write. If you have a plan to avoid combat while under a wardec, GOOD FOR YOU. That's a HUGE difference from being immune to wardecs. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2555	Posted - 2013.01.30 06:25:00 - [17] - Quote Mr Kidd wrote: For years I've seen people write on these forums how NPC corps are a "problem". And yet, I've not actually seen anyone explain how NPC corps are a "problem" without resorting to some lengthy description that ultimately culminates into reasons that are nothing more than rants and whines to enrich their own game play at the expense of others'. So, please...explain to me...why NPC corps are a problem. Please exclude reasons that end up adding kills to your kill board, putting isk into your wallet or forcing people to the play the game the way you like to play it. Read the thread. I've said it several times. NPC corp members can participate in all of the player-affecting activities of the game: they can mine, affect market prices, participate in ganks, everything but set up a POS...yet they are immune to retaliatory wardecs. It runs contrary to how CCP presents the world of Eve. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2556	Posted - 2013.01.30 06:32:00 - [18] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: You seem to have constructed a schizoid strawman That's most of this thread, to be honest. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

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