The cloaky locks down systems.

The majority of players are sane, so they dock and or log day after day.

It's so completely wrong that an inactive / afk player can be effectively invulnerable to active players and only vulnerable AFTER they have done the damage.

Would you put a revolver to your head and play Russian roulette?

can't fight them, but you can die to them.

It's been talked of so many times.

The cloaky locks down systems. Over and over again. They are imbalanced. The damage they can and do, far outweighs their possible personal loss when they are uncloaked to do the deed.

It's time this was sorted. It seriously screws with enjoyment of the game for far too many players.

The balance is the ability of players to have the definitive ability (if proppery fitted and trained) to actively find the cloaked player before they do something. Would you put a revolver to your head and play Russian roulette? The sane answer is no. Yet the cloaky sympathizers are effectively saying players should do so. The majority of players are sane, so they dock and or log day after day. How is this good for gameplay?

I agree this should take skills. But it should be readily doable.

It's so completely wrong that an inactive / afk player can be effectively invulnerable to active players and only vulnerable AFTER they have done the damage.

I'm getting sick of it as are other players who I'm watching give up on the game because of this crap. Can't find them, can't fight them, but you can die to them. Yay.

Two suggestions.

1) Old idea... high tech / skill destroyer that does what destroyers do. Find & detect subs. Or in this case, cloaky's.

2) Random thought that popped into my head... A command link that increases the scan strength or whatever of combat probes to make finding and dealing with them more doable. If the cloaky is active and see's the combat scanners out, they can bounce about to their safes or log off themselves. If afk or not actively scanning themselves, they are likely dead. Seems like balance to me.

Sort this **** out. Give us the realistic options that will be used to ACTIVELY play the game.

IF nothing else, I want a module to put on my cloaky ships that will shutdown the moon mining for a poss (that I can use while cloaked


This way when my ratting system gets camp I can go camp the offenders moon mining poss's and inflict damage much the same way that they do.

tbh the same thing that stops you ratting would prevent you getting within 10jumps of their moon.

Cloaky Camping is a lame tactic... but do you know what's more lame than them???

Nullbears that dock up and log off rather than adapting to the situation!!

Dealing with AFK cloakers is not very hard... you just have to be smart...
--- Use a BC to "rat"... it's not very blingy, it doesn't cost all that much, and they can fight back...
--- Fly in a group... Several ships can shred most recons... especially if they are stuck in place for 30 seconds...
--- Move to the system next door...
--- Stop sucking!

Yes switching from 35 mil in bounties + about 30mil in salvage every 20 minutes to

ratting in belts getting 2-4 mil every 20 in bounties is a feasible trade off (sarcasm)

EVEN IF we catch the cloaker, and kill him he loses what? at most 20mil for a covert ops ship and maybe 10 mil in fittings?

And how much do you make while docked or logged off?

And how much do you make while docked or logged off?

How much of your bounties would it take to convince a friend to fly an ECM ship as cover?
How much of your bounties is sacrificed by ratting in the system next door?
How long do you have to rat before you pay for your ship with the bounties you make? (you could look at ship loss as just part of the nullsec earning line)....

bait him so that when he attacks u and ur brosefs tackle him and blow him up. if he comes back, do it again...and again, until he stops coming back.

if u aren't prepared to attack the cloaker when he comes for u then u dnt belong in null sec, its as simple as that. u have no right to be able to rat in null sec without any risk. having help nearby to mitigate the risk of being attacked should be the standard.

I risk my ship ratting in null, you can easily log out at the station gates, and log in bubble them catch the people trying to safe up. or jump into the system and catch the people who dont see local fast enough.

But when the cloaker is most likely part of a large coalition, (lets say he is actually part of goonswarm - why goonswarm, because in mycase thats who it is-)

when the cloaker is a goon, and lets say you have 5 people in cruisers ready to pvp him when he engages (and scrams) suddenly your pvp fit ratting ships is surrounded by carriers or bridged a fleet in) what now?

u risk ur ship? but u instantly know when a bad guy is in local. trust me, the reason u hardly ever lose ur ratting ship in null is not 'because ur good'. its because there is so little risk. why do u think everyone is always telling u that null is safer than low sec?



have u even tried this? didnt think so.

if they cyno a fleet then why dnt u cyno ur own fleet in? why do u think its normal to be able to hold the most valuable space in the game without the need to defend it?

best solution is to remove local, and do not do anything about cloakers.

It is funny, cause i am never afk when i cloak in a bear system, it already gives me pleasure to see them dock up and not make any isk at all. I can make isk on an alt meanwhile....probably i am doing it wrong?



on and OP....stop crying here and quit eve. I can have your stuff.

ok I (a peon in my alliance) will somehow organize a counter-hotdrop, and have everyone on standby just for the possiblity that the afk cloaker is at his keyboard waiting for me to start ratting..... do you see how unreasonable that sounds.

I dont lose alot of ships ratting because, I pay attention. I have to pay attention to local to rat in nullsec and if I get up pour a drink or deal with a real life emergency I know that chance of me leaving my computer for just aminute may result in my demise.


I am content with how the system works right now, (I would just have a better game experience if I afk cloakers wherent so prominent)

ok I (a peon in my alliance) will somehow organize a counter-hotdrop, and have everyone on standby just for the possiblity that the afk cloaker is at his keyboard waiting for me to start ratting..... do you see how unreasonable that sounds.

I dont lose alot of ships ratting because, I pay attention. I have to pay attention to local to rat in nullsec and if I get up pour a drink or deal with a real life emergency I know that chance of me leaving my computer for just aminute may result in my demise.

I am content with how the system works right now, (I would just have a better game experience if I afk cloakers wherent so prominent)

In before Nikk Narrel,
AFK cloaking is caused by having local.

You choose to rather evade the target and not play, rather then actually taking action to bait and destroy them.

Yes, because we can really tell whether the cloaky is afk or active. Nothing like stopping what you would otherwise do to bait someone for the whole day who it turns out in the end isn't actually there... or decides that you are baiting so sits back smiling. So you what? Carry on as usual the next day to find that ****, they are now randomly back and are now screwing you over. Giggles 'n enjoyment of the game for one player at least right?

Never asked for removal of cloaking, just something realistic that can be done to counter them. Something that an active person can do to make game play at least semi enjoyable for more than just the one cloaked.

Quit with the crap about "you do it to yourselves". We are human beings attempting to play a game for at least some sort of enjoyment. This mechanic as it is, is not friendly or compatible with basic human nature. The cloaky has the upper hand and will continue too have the upper hand until it's ballanced in some way. People are merely wanting a PRACTICAL and workable counter that doesn't involve some fantasy role play crap where all the players online aren't alts of the same person or afk or mindless, emotionless robots.

At the moment, the most practical solution is to log as moving to new systems invariably lands you in the same spot with the same issue. Possibly with an alt of the last cloaky even. Also, the more kills a cloaky gets, the more they come back. It's a loose /loose for those on the receiving end.

RANT RANT.

Yes, because we can really tell whether the cloaky is afk or active. Nothing like stopping what you would otherwise do to bait someone for the whole day who it turns out in the end isn't actually there... or decides that you are baiting so sits back smiling. So you what? Carry on as usual the next day to find that ****, they are now randomly back and are now screwing you over. Giggles 'n enjoyment of the game for one player at least right?

Never asked for removal of cloaking, just something realistic that can be done to counter them. Something that an active person can do to make game play at least semi enjoyable for more than just the one cloaked.

Quit with the crap about "you do it to yourselves". We are human beings attempting to play a game for at least some sort of enjoyment. This mechanic as it is, is not friendly or compatible with basic human nature. The cloaky has the upper hand and will continue too have the upper hand until it's ballanced in some way. People are merely wanting a PRACTICAL and workable counter that doesn't involve some fantasy role play crap where all the players online aren't alts of the same person or afk or mindless, emotionless robots.

At the moment, the most practical solution is to log as moving to new systems invariably lands you in the same spot with the same issue. Possibly with an alt of the last cloaky even. Also, the more kills a cloaky gets, the more they come back. It's a loose /loose for those on the receiving end.

RANT RANT.

Yes, because we can really tell whether the cloaky is afk or active. Nothing like stopping what you would otherwise do to bait someone for the whole day who it turns out in the end isn't actually there... or decides that you are baiting so sits back smiling. So you what? Carry on as usual the next day to find that ****, they are now randomly back and are now screwing you over. Giggles 'n enjoyment of the game for one player at least right?

Never asked for removal of cloaking, just something realistic that can be done to counter them. Something that an active person can do to make game play at least semi enjoyable for more than just the one cloaked.

Quit with the crap about "you do it to yourselves". We are human beings attempting to play a game for at least some sort of enjoyment. This mechanic as it is, is not friendly or compatible with basic human nature. The cloaky has the upper hand and will continue too have the upper hand until it's ballanced in some way. People are merely wanting a PRACTICAL and workable counter that doesn't involve some fantasy role play crap where all the players online aren't alts of the same person or afk or mindless, emotionless robots.

At the moment, the most practical solution is to log as moving to new systems invariably lands you in the same spot with the same issue. Possibly with an alt of the last cloaky even. Also, the more kills a cloaky gets, the more they come back. It's a loose /loose for those on the receiving end.

RANT RANT.

Well here is a pretty fun fact, your mining? Great! Okay. Align out, while you mine! Use a Procurer [maybe even add warp core stabilizers]. You see, if its a manticore, you can actually kill it with your procurer using drones. You also have a substantial tank to literally tank him. Arazu? Rapier? well once they uncloak they have a 5 second re calibration time [At max skills] which gives you time to warp away. If they are warping to you uncloaked you may pick them up on D-Scan.

Man, surviving is hard!

Why are the only people supporting this idea (in this thread) in NPC corps.

Seriously, grow a pair!

This.

I'm going to have to get on SiSi to see who wins out of a bomber and a tanked Mack using Warrior IIs. My money's on the Mack.

Until you accept the inherent risk of EVE, no one will listen to you.

You nailed it beautifully.

Whilst they are AFK, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?

Learn

To

Search.

I'm confused... how can you die to them without being able to fight them?
(unless they're using falcons and ECM?)

Also what about players who AFK in a pos? they should too be made vulnerable when AFK should they not?
Maybe you'd like the idea that if you don't rub your ship against the tower once every 2 minutes you get ejected from the pos shields.

Holy crap some people in EVE are thick.

This thread is addressing the possible nerf of the cloaking mechanic, not their ability to be AFK.

However, while they are AFK, they are the only people in the game that their location can't be found. They are safer than in a null sec station - a station can be taken over. Do you know the chance of finding a cloaky in a system with around 80 points that they could warp to at 6 possible ranges and then slowly move in virtually infinite possible directions and distances?

Like thousands of other players making 'smart' remarks in cloaking topics, you're completely mis-interpreting what is being said. By not being able to fight them, it doesn't mean that you can't shoot at them when they decloak and drop a cyno, but that if they don't think they have the absolute edge, they won't ever uncloak (and yet people call the pilots being attacked by these cloakers cowardly/carebears?)

And the reason why people can be 'safe' in a POS is because they took the time to build it. And yes, someone can destroy it in under a couple of days. Therefore, you aren't truly safe in a POS like you are cloaking.

As for my personal opinion, I don't really like the idea of being able to scan down cloakies, at least without half an hour or an hour of scanning work. There are legitimate times to be AFK, I have ran away from the computer to help a family member many times and lost ships because of it. So, if it were possible to scan them down, it should be difficult enough to render scanning even the most semi-active pilot nearly impossible.

I still maintain that being AFK isn't the problem. They should really log out when AFK, but that's their choice. Being AFK is the engine and having an infinite, un-scannable, un-traceable cloak is the nitrous oxide.

Holy crap some people in EVE are thick.



This thread is addressing the possible nerf of the cloaking mechanic, not their ability to be AFK.

However, while they are AFK, they are the only people in the game that their location can't be found. They are safer than in a null sec station - a station can be taken over. Do you know the chance of finding a cloaky in a system with around 80 points that they could warp to at 6 possible ranges and then slowly move in virtually infinite possible directions and distances?

The problem, however, still isn't that they are AFK.

Holy crap some people in EVE are thick.



This thread is addressing the possible nerf of the cloaking mechanic, not their ability to be AFK.

However, while they are AFK, they are the only people in the game that their location can't be found. They are safer than in a null sec station - a station can be taken over. Do you know the chance of finding a cloaky in a system with around 80 points that they could warp to at 6 possible ranges and then slowly move in virtually infinite possible directions and distances?

The problem, however, still isn't that they are AFK.



Read my paragraph above.

I will support this when you can give me evidence of how many ships you and your mates have lost to AFK cloakers!! Remember, they have to be AFK when they kill you.


Lock down a system with an afk cloaker? Really? That's how bad arse the NS PVP'ers are?


** posting in a not so stealth Nerf AFK cloaking thread **

Afkcloaking thread #10981420984120948

Local is the problem
AFK cloaking is pointless if you don't show up in local
You don't deserve a perfect intel tool that tells oyu the moment someone is in system

Remove local, then we can talk about detecting cloakers

Not even that. Without local the threat would at all times be existent. And we WH dwellers manage just fine. People should be grateful that they do have a local to be more careful if they see someone. Instead they bite the hand that feeds, and demand complete security.

The problem is the mindset of the people, that heard about SOV being the ultimate carebears dream. But when they suddenly realize it's not 100% as it was advertised, they'd like the game to change to fit the advertisement.


Cloakies are perfectly balanced the way they are.

Gimped DPS, gimped tank, locking delay - just shoot them back. Categorically trying to avoid PvP? I recommend you stay docked in station, instead of ratting in a lawless region.

I personally have not lost any ships to a cloaky camper. This is because I have no reliable way to tell if the camper is AFK or not. Therefore it is never safe for me to rat while there is a neutral cloaked in system. Sure, I could find out his ship type, and rat in something that directly counters said ship. But how do I know he doesn't have a cyno and a fleet sitting on a titan, that I'm unable to counter? I don't. Therefore, it is never safe for me to rat with a cloaky camper in system. Cloaky campers have an effect on the game while not actually playing it or even being remotely near their computer. You argue against botters because they both gain benefit, and have an effect on the game while afk. Yet you promote AFK cloaky campers, when they both gain benefit, and have an effect on the game while afk.

WTS logic.

Until you fit a cyno on them.

Not even that. Without local the threat would at all times be existent. And we WH dwellers manage just fine. People should be grateful that they do have a local to be more careful if they see someone. Instead they bite the hand that feeds, and demand complete security.

The problem is the mindset of the people, that heard about SOV being the ultimate carebears dream. But when they suddenly realize it's not 100% as it was advertised, they'd like the game to change to fit the advertisement.


Cloakies are perfectly balanced the way they are.

Gimped DPS, gimped tank, locking delay - just shoot them back. Categorically trying to avoid PvP? I recommend you stay docked in station, instead of ratting in a lawless region.

Just do what I do and throw wave after wave of procurers at them until their trigger fingers get tired and sore and they go off to somewhere else. It's not like procureres cost a lot of ISK or anything :-)

Seriously though, while I think the cloaking mechanics are fine I do agree that it should work both ways and their should be ways to find a cloaked ship, which the cloaked ship could easily avoid if he/she was paying attention.

Vigilance on both sides of the equation sounds like a good sollution to me. Personally I would be fine with removing local if there was a mechanism to hunt down cloakers. Just my humble opinion.

But who knows what CCP thinks of the issue. Has it ever came up in any of the CSM notes or anything?