Originally by: Tar' Kahn

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but for all we know, in space, the force just pushes the object away from the explosion point...

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Originally by: Jezala

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Just for kicks I'm going to briefly go through a list of actually engineering conisderations when designing and operating missiles for space combat.

The design of real space missiles would be driven by a few factors:
1. Target acquisition, and tracking package.
2. Navigation package.
3. Fuel and thursters.
4. Warhead size.

The operation of a space combat missile would probably follow along these lines:
1. Acquire target.
2. Track target.
3. Plot an orbital solution to intercept with the target's orbital path.
4. Ignite main propulsion thrusters.
5. Adjust orbit and refire thrusters as need to maintain an orbital intercept course.
6. Increase missile velocity as much as possible.
7. Upon target intercept, the missile will have 3 options:
a. Detontate in front of the target's orbital path to shower the target with debris.
b. Detontate right next to the target. (I'm talking 0-10 meters here) The explosive radius is significantly smaller in space.
c. Make a direct impact with the target first then detonate.

I suspect a direct impact is the more likly option due to the inherent benefit that missile operations in space allow for a very maneuverable missile...so long as it has the fuel to do so.

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Originally by: Thyro

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Originally by: Tar' Kahn

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but for all we know, in space, the force just pushes the object away from the explosion point...

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It depends!

did the explosion occurred around or was a direct impact?

If it was a direct impact then did the missile perfured the hull or not?

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Originally by: Thnikkaman

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Originally by: Golden Ratio

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the explosion is still just as great, this is what a Torp does, it explodes on impact,

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Here is your disconnect. It explodes by proximity not impact. Smaller sig radius and greater agility of target equals harder to get close with less agile missiles.
Kroma BaSyl

Don't hate me because I am beautiful!

Originally by: Jezala

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Originally by: Thyro

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Originally by: Tar' Kahn

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but for all we know, in space, the force just pushes the object away from the explosion point...

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It depends!

did the explosion occurred around or was a direct impact?

If it was a direct impact then did the missile perfured the hull or not?

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Another thing you may want to ask is what damage did the internal take? It is quite possible for the internal structure to fail without puncturing the armor and hull.

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Originally by: Thyro

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Edited by: Thyro on 14/07/2005 18:26:37
Edited by: Thyro on 14/07/2005 18:24:30

Originally by: Jezala

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Originally by: Thyro

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Originally by: Tar' Kahn

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but for all we know, in space, the force just pushes the object away from the explosion point...

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It depends!

did the explosion occurred around or was a direct impact?

If it was a direct impact then did the missile perfured the hull or not?

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Another thing you may want to ask is what damage did the internal take? It is quite possible for the internal structure to fail without puncturing the armor and hull.

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on EVE yes

Because EVE is based that only few things get directly to the structure without removing the shields/armor

But if we think a little... what would happen if you fire a weapon against a single point of an object (even if its armored)

eventually it will pierce the armor and get into the hull. So you might have 99% armor and that 1% is enough to get your hull.

Well this in EVE does not happen only when your armor is under 30% and sometimes even less than that.

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Originally by: Thyro

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in RL missiles can do 2 things:

Direct impact: Independent from the size of the object the damage is constant (damage caused by the explosion + speed of the mass of the missile)

Indirect impact (Explosion around the object):
Variables to the equation, range of the explosion and debris launched by the explosion and surroundings.

On both cases the SIZE OF THE OBJECT IS NOT RELEVANT.

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Originally by: Thyro

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In RL you managed to launch 2 identical torpedoes

1st torpedo goes against Navy Frigate and does a direct impact making a big hole. In 10 minutes that vessel caps down under water

2nd torpedo against a pocket submarine on the superficies, gets a direct impact makes a small hole but keeps floating for another 30 minutes until goes down also lost.

This is what CCP wrongly introduced in this game

So the frigate receives an impact but just because the Frigate size is bigger than the submarine gets more destruction. Therefore the submarine because is smaller survives more time because receives a proportional destruction dependent of its size.

This is CCP logic and is not rational either real!

In RL the submarine would fly out of the water with explosion, because its small size and the damaged of the explosion caused by the torpedo is reversed to the size of the submarine

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Originally by: Thyro

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in RL missiles can do 2 things:

Direct impact: Independent from the size of the object the damage is constant (damage caused by the explosion + speed of the mass of the missile)

Indirect impact (Explosion around the object):
Variables to the equation, range of the explosion and debris launched by the explosion and surroundings.

On both cases the SIZE OF THE OBJECT IS NOT RELEVANT.

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They're called MISSiles, not HITiles.

Torpedos are a bad example because real navy ships don't go the speeds represented in game... aircraft are a better example, but most spacecraft in eve go faster than the fastest aircraft. But thats beside the point. For a target moving VERY quickly, guidance becomes more importance. Most missiles explode, and DO NOT explode on impact - they explode a certain distance away from a target designated by the missile's sensors. If due to countermeasures, electronic warfare, or manuvering the missile "thinks" its in range then it'll detonate, otherwise, most will not be able to make another pass and may lose lockon after missing.

What does this mean? It means that if a torpedo's sensors can't keep EXACT track of an in game frigate's motion (use exact analogies to real life naval ships when arleigh burkes go mach 5), then the missile may explode outside of its kill zone.

This is all of course quite contrary to a very serious game balance problem - ie that my megathron with 7 425s and 2 tracking comps can insta gank some cute little 7k bounty blood raiders (whatever they're called) but a raven can't deal more than .7 or whatever damage to it from the same range. THATS the problem, missiles at range should be a function of delta transevrse velocity or something like that instead of what it is now - but then again, that would require some pretty massive server side calculations for each missile fired.

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