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Mr VonBraun
New Eden Dynamics
17
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Posted - 2013.02.03 11:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
The only "safe" way to mine in lowsec is to live there. Know the system you are in. Know the locals. Make as many blue contacts as you can,run d-scan like a maniac and keep a weather eye on local. Stay aligned,to a gate,station or your own POS tower if possible. DO NOT hang around the belt if reds or neuts enter the system,you must assume they are already warping to you and planning to ruin your day. Warp out as soon as you see them.
What makes lowsec mining worthwhile for me is that the belts are usually untouched,so you don't have the frustration of trying to scratch a living in belts that have been emptied by other players. It is VERY risky,I have lost a couple of exhumers in my time because I have let my guard down. |
Oska Rus
Solar Storm
Insidious Empire
8
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Posted - 2013.02.03 13:53:00 -
[62] - Quote
mining is for botz and afkers. All other actions in eve have currently much better isk returns on time, skill points, isk invested and time invested. Try exploring other aspects of game and youll be surprised. ;-) (missioning, anomaly rattig, planetary interaction, trading) |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3392
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Posted - 2013.02.03 14:02:00 -
[63] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:mining is for botz and afkers.
If you want to Troll, at least learn how to do it well first.
America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between.
- Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Oska Rus
Solar Storm
Insidious Empire
8
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Posted - 2013.02.03 14:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If you want to Troll, at least learn how to do it well first.
Then why dont you prove me wrong? I too would like to see mining in eve as sensible profession. |
Mr VonBraun
New Eden Dynamics
17
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Posted - 2013.02.03 14:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If you want to Troll, at least learn how to do it well first.
Then why dont you prove me wrong? I too would like to see mining in eve as sensible profession.
If nobody in EVE did any mining,you wouldn't have any ships,drones,modules or ammo to play with.....
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Oska Rus
Solar Storm
Insidious Empire
8
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Posted - 2013.02.03 16:05:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mr VonBraun wrote:[quote=Oska Rus][quote=Krixtal Icefluxor]
If nobody in EVE did any mining,you wouldn't have any ships,drones,modules or ammo to play with.....
Yeah. all the bots are doing awesome job supplying whole eve by cheapass ore. ;-) |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3392
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Posted - 2013.02.03 16:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:Mr VonBraun wrote:[quote=Oska Rus][quote=Krixtal Icefluxor]
If nobody in EVE did any mining,you wouldn't have any ships,drones,modules or ammo to play with.....
Yeah. all the bots are doing awesome job supplying whole eve by cheapass ore. ;-)
Why bother trolling the experts who know better? Get back to GD.
Also, learn how to quote proper.
America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between.
- Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Oska Rus
Solar Storm
Insidious Empire
8
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Posted - 2013.02.03 16:53:00 -
[68] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Why bother trolling the experts who know better? Get back to GD.
Just asking if it is possible to make money comparable by other actions (null mining X null rating) Because all my research so far shows that it is not possible without bots.
BTW wtf is GD?
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Also, learn how to quote proper. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3392
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 17:08:00 -
[69] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Why bother trolling the experts who know better? Get back to GD.
Just asking if it is possible to make money comparable by other actions (null mining X null rating) Because all my research so far shows that it is not possible without bots. BTW wtf is GD? Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Also, learn how to quote proper.
At this point I just have to quote the movie critic in the SF Chronicle today:
"it's like taking an amusement park ride through the curves of someone's mind and finding a sudden plunge into darkness each time you expect a synapse."
America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence (and back to barbarism - KI) without civilization in between.
- Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Oska Rus
Solar Storm
Insidious Empire
8
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Posted - 2013.02.03 17:33:00 -
[70] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
At this point I just have to quote the movie critic in the SF Chronicle today:
"it's like taking an amusement park ride through the curves of someone's mind and finding a sudden plunge into darkness each time you expect a synapse."
That makes sense. Thanx for reply. |
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celebro
Confederate States of Eve
49
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Posted - 2013.02.03 18:12:00 -
[71] - Quote
I'm looking for more isk/hr when mining not going to low sec to mine anytime soon, same as with 99% of HS miners. Not even null is worth the trouble anymore. |
Mire Stoude
Antelope with Night Vision Goggles
95
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 21:31:00 -
[72] - Quote
Granted, I don't know how much a newb can make fresh out of the box anymore, but a new miner with next to no skills and a meta 2-3 fit Venture (costing a whopping 700k isk in total) can make 4-5m an hour in low-sec mining Hemor. They need some support and will lose some ships, but that's more than I ever made as a clueless newb.
They will move on to more profitable ventures (pardon the pun) in time, but a newb will either sink or swim in Low-Sec. Either way they will learn about Eve and whether it's for them. |
Sarah Aran
Fortuna Nova Freelancing
0
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Posted - 2013.02.12 17:50:00 -
[73] - Quote
Lowsec mining: the holy grail of mining dreams.
Now I'm going to sound like one of those crusty war vets by saying this, but I've been around long enough to have mined every corners of eve, and I've tried most every technique. First off, it's actually quite simple to set up and profit from a low sec mining operation. If you are already comfortable with the general flow of PVP, you'll find lowsec mining to be quite simple, following most of the same principles you're already familiar with.
Now the very vocal detractors in this thread dohave avery good point to make; lowsec mining is quite simply alot more effort for what results in only a few isk per m3 in improved yeild. You are introducing a huge X variable in your calculations when trying to factor in the very volatile world of low sec warfare, both the FW and pirate flavors. A high sec mining operation is quite simply muchmore predictable, for nearly equal yeild.
The detractors will also point toward joining a 0.0 based corp as a more lucrative alternative. This is in principal true, 0.0 space is in general a far more stable and predictable environment. Most of the same logistical problems that you will find in lowsec have already been solved by the alliance's infrastructure and pilots. However not all aliances are equal, and some, while neglecting the belts in their own systems charge extortionate taxes on their own pilots.
Lowsec does offer some advantages over both highsec and 0.0, you have deserted neglected systems to yourself, and can oftentimes find greater profit in low volume production byselling directly to those pirates trying so hard to gank you. Also, you're your own boss, unconcerned with the military support of an alliance, or extortionate taxing. These are all benefits, but ultimtely they must be earned with greater investment of time, effort and treasure. Surely you'd be happier with a belt in a nice quiet 0.5, right?
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3445
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 18:35:00 -
[74] - Quote
Sarah Aran wrote: Surely you'd be happier with a belt in a nice quiet 0.5, right?
Yup.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
457
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:Mr VonBraun wrote:[quote=Oska Rus][quote=Krixtal Icefluxor]
If nobody in EVE did any mining,you wouldn't have any ships,drones,modules or ammo to play with.....
Yeah. all the bots are doing awesome job supplying whole eve by cheapass ore. ;-)
Well currently a miner with good skills and good fleet boost can make 20-25M per hour. Far better than the 10M it used to be.
True a mission runner can make 40-60M per hour. With far higher investment and skill required to do so however.
It is very easy and safe to make 25M per hour mining, and can very easily be muti boxed for equal income from each additional miner. Mission running does not scale the same. Mission running requires much more attention, at least to hit the 40-60M mark. AFK mission running while it can be done is more in the 10-15M per hour range. Drones are just not that efficient when not controlled.
Not to mention a poorly skilled mission runner that spends 2-3 hours to complete a level 4 mission is making 15-20M per hour not 40-60M.
When I log in all 4 of my accounts a can easily make 100M per hour mining. Using all 4 accounts to try to multibox missions I can match that. but if I had 6-10 accounts mining would win by a landslide.
So mission running is really only better isk than mining when running solo or 2-3 accounts. At 4 accounts it is about even. More than 4 accounts mining wins.
Another advantage of mining is I can do it at work semi afk. When I can not pay much attention to what is happening. Got work to do after all. If I try that with missions I would lose a lot of ships. So mining can be done at times when mission running can not.
So tell me again why mining sucks and is only done by bots?
I am an avid mission runner, but I find many situations where running my 4 accounts in a mining fleet makes me more isk than I could make running missions. And at times when I otherwise would not even be logged in.
In theory, based on what I have seen on recent kill boards, the best isk/hour you can get in high sec is actually ganking freighters. You need at least a 10 man fleet to do it right, and consistently make big isk. A couple scouts to find the juicyest targets, and 8-10 Talos to pull of the actual gank. I have seen many recent freighter kills where over 1 bil worth of loot dropped. That is easily over 500M profit if set up right. Say you are well organized and can pull off 4 ganks per hour. That is a conservative 2 billion isk profit split say 12 ways. that is over 150M each per hour. Based on the kill board stats it would often be higher than that. You think the GOONS do it for kicks? No they do it for profit. The kicks is just an awesome bonus that keeps the gankers entertained.
What other activity can you do in high sec that makes well over 100M/hour? Exploration? maybe on occasion, but not consistently. trading for sure if you are really good and have the capital to work with. Not much else. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3452
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 23:16:00 -
[76] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Oska Rus wrote:Mr VonBraun wrote:[quote=Oska Rus][quote=Krixtal Icefluxor]
If nobody in EVE did any mining,you wouldn't have any ships,drones,modules or ammo to play with.....
Yeah. all the bots are doing awesome job supplying whole eve by cheapass ore. ;-) Well currently a miner with good skills and good fleet boost can make 20-25M per hour. Far better than the 10M it used to be. True a mission runner can make 40-60M per hour. With far higher investment and skill required to do so however.
Yup.
With my "2 Hulks & An Orca" Mining, with the prices today I can make around 50-55 M an hour. It has to do with being efficient as possible, using Mining Drones in some capacity at least, and being extremely attentive to what's going on (that's why I have an alt who pops Bots. It really irritates me, the lack of even minimal effort).
On the rare occasion that a Large Hedb/Hemo/Jasp Site shows up, over a 5 hour period it nets me 395,000,000 ISK across EIGHT Orca-Loads.
That's over 60,000,000 an hour.
So..........yeah.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.-á-á-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Zenito
Z-Labs
Redacted Limited
2
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Posted - 2013.02.13 18:38:00 -
[77] - Quote
This thread's about low-sec mining, what's with all the figures for high-sec mining?
60,000,000+ per hour on one character works nicely for me  |
Kate stark
111
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Posted - 2013.02.13 20:11:00 -
[78] - Quote
Zenito wrote:This thread's about low-sec mining, what's with all the figures for high-sec mining? 60,000,000+ per hour on one character works nicely for me
because it's our duty to instruct new players that low sec mining is ******* terrible.
as such, we back up our argument with mathematical facts and numbers, such as high sec mining isk/hour > low sec mining isk/hour.
we're nice people here, we don't want to see him wasting his time in low sec. |
Huttan Funaila
Terminal Radioactivity
Honey Badger Coalition
162
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 20:59:00 -
[79] - Quote
Hannz Blasterbon wrote:I've acquired a Procurer but just need the right fit to feel like id have a semi chance of avoiding destruction if i get ganked. Can anyone help me with this fit?
Generally, people complain about my fits causing them cancer and blindness, but if you really want some low sec mining, this fit might not be too bad:
Quote:
[Procurer, Lowsec BloodRaider]
'Halcyon' Core Equalizer I
'Halcyon' Core Equalizer I
Medium Shield Extender II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Strip Miner I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Hobgoblin II x5
The targeted region has Blood Raider rats which do EM and Thermal damage, so change the EM/Thermal resistance items to suit the region you hang out in. I've found that the alt using this fit needs much better drone skills (I put Hob2 in this fit as T1 drones don't cut it) as you'll encounter cruiser rats in 0.4 (and below) which simple tech 1 drones have a hard time handling. With 2 warp core stabilizers, someone trying to point your ship is going to need a faction scrambler, and that's going to be very expensive (cheapest one on eve-marketdata is 70M). It is my guess that if you replace 1 or both of the warp core stabilizers with a Mining Laser Upgrade, you'll get scrambled and blown up. The stabilizers reduce your targett
If the adaptive invuln needs too much skill, go with "limited adaptive invulnerablity field".
If the T2 amplifiers need too much skill, go with similar type ones that say "upgraded".
If the shield extender needs too much skill, go with the on "medium F-S9..." (the meta 4 one).
Eventually, you want to replace the T1 strip miner with a T2 one and use the appropriate crystals.
Eve Fitting Tool says this has 57k EHP with all level 5 skills, and 37k with no skills.
Even though the other players say that lowsec mining is a bad idea, it is something everyone should try. The belt rats in low sec will eat your Venture very quickly, and a Retriever lacks the tank needed.
If someone has better ideas, or even what a better fit would look like, I would be interested in knowing as well. |
Kate stark
113
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Posted - 2013.02.13 21:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
quick maths.
no orca bonuses, max skills 3% implant.
mackinaw: 3x mlus, 3.2 jetcans per hour.
skiff: 2x warp stabs, 2.5 jetcans per hour.
the mackinaw will mine ~30% more ore than the skiff with the warp stabs.
hed is worth ~ 22% more than scordite.
3.2 cans of scordite right now is worth 20.16m isk
2.5 cans of hed right now is worth 19.25m isk.
not only are you making less isk, you're taking more risks and having more logistical problems.
(what can i say, it's wednesday evening and i'm bored. (this is probably also why i'll be alone tomorrow.)) |
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
469
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Posted - 2013.02.19 14:36:00 -
[81] - Quote
Zenito wrote:This thread's about low-sec mining, what's with all the figures for high-sec mining? 60,000,000+ per hour on one character works nicely for me
+60M in high sec is certainly possible. But the only "safe" way to mine in Low is with a venture. Procurer or even Skiff is just to slow and easy to catch. you will get caught and you will lose it. If not while mining, while getting the ore/minerals back to high sec to sell. With a venture you can get in and out fairly safely with a very high chance of survival. But even with max skills and drones a Venture will only do about 8-10M in low sec.
This is why so many High sec stats have been mentioned. Even considering the average high sec income of 20-25M per hour compared to 8-10M per hour mining in low sec. You add significant risk, for less than half the income. if you try to mine low sec in even a Skiff your survival rate drops huge, even with warp stabs, as most pirates will assume anyone bold enough to mine in low sec will be using 2 warp stabs. They simply come after you with 3 points and you are dead.
Sure in theory, with Hed and Hem at the top of the ore charts right now, mining in low sec looks like good isk. But the loss in m3/hr to actually do it safely drops your income below that of a high sec miner. Even if you do find a quit system where you can mine in a procurer with out constantly getting unwanted attention.
- mining barges are very easy to scan down.
-mining barges are very slow to align and warp
- mining barges, even with a full rack of warp stab are very easy to tackle
-mining barges fit for tank and GTFO have significantly lower yield than max yield high sec mining barges
the fact is although low sec mining is possible, the risks are far to great when you compare the income to what you could make in high sec. |
Moxie Monique
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 16:00:00 -
[82] - Quote
The prevailing wisdom is it is not worth mining in Low-sec.
Yes, the minerals are more valuable, but you have to factor in the fact that in Hi-sec you can mine mostly afk 23/7 without interruption. In Low-sec you have to be watching like a hawk, and it's very easy for your mining to be disrupted. You also have to balance your ability to survive vrs your yield in Low-sec, which means you will either lose ships, or you will lose yield. In Hi-sec you can just fit for max yield.
Ultimately the loss in mining time and yield in Low-sec outweigh the increased profits. |
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 00:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Zenito wrote:This thread's about low-sec mining, what's with all the figures for high-sec mining? 60,000,000+ per hour on one character works nicely for me +60M in high sec is certainly possible. But the only "safe" way to mine in Low is with a venture. Procurer or even Skiff is just to slow and easy to catch. you will get caught and you will lose it. If not while mining, while getting the ore/minerals back to high sec to sell. With a venture you can get in and out fairly safely with a very high chance of survival. But even with max skills and drones a Venture will only do about 8-10M in low sec. This is why so many High sec stats have been mentioned. Even considering the average high sec income of 20-25M per hour compared to 8-10M per hour mining in low sec. You add significant risk, for less than half the income. if you try to mine low sec in even a Skiff your survival rate drops huge, even with warp stabs, as most pirates will assume anyone bold enough to mine in low sec will be using 2 warp stabs. They simply come after you with 3 points and you are dead. Sure in theory, with Hed and Hem at the top of the ore charts right now, mining in low sec looks like good isk. But the loss in m3/hr to actually do it safely drops your income below that of a high sec miner. Even if you do find a quit system where you can mine in a procurer with out constantly getting unwanted attention. - mining barges are very easy to scan down. -mining barges are very slow to align and warp - mining barges, even with a full rack of warp stab are very easy to tackle -mining barges fit for tank and GTFO have significantly lower yield than max yield high sec mining barges the fact is although low sec mining is possible, the risks are far to great when you compare the income to what you could make in high sec.
I am tired of people talking about income figures like this. Get your facts straight, use a spreadsheet or eve isk per hour but don't tell nonsense. 60mil+ on one character for high sec mining is just a lie.
The top income, with orca support, perfect skills and best implants in a Hulk is around 20mil isk per hour. And that's not your average income because it's not possible or effective to only cherry pick Kernite/Scordite.
In low sec, with orca support and perfect setup the top income (for Hemorphite) is around 27mil.
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Kate stark
226
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 00:31:00 -
[84] - Quote
Debra Tao wrote:I am tired of people talking about income figures like this. Get your facts straight, use a spreadsheet or eve isk per hour but don't tell nonsense. 60mil+ on one character for high sec mining is just a lie.
The top income, with orca support, perfect skills and best implants in a Hulk is around 20mil isk per hour. And that's not your average income because it's not possible or effective to only cherry pick Kernite/Scordite.
In low sec, with orca support and perfect setup the top income (for Hemorphite) is around 27mil.
psst, it's actually 39.69m isk/hour. in high sec for a perfect hulk with perfect boosts cherrypicking and short cycling with 100% accuracy.
and 48.51m isk/hour for hed, all things being equal.
however 60m is just plain wrong by any calculation.
Obvious Goon alt that's never mined a day in his life(!) |
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 00:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
Cherry picking makes no sense. That's like saying that my trading income is huge because it took me 1 sec to sell an item for a 10mil profit... A correct average of the income in that case must take into account the search and travel that you have to do to only mine the best ore.
Anyway i don't know where you got your numbers but i trust isk per hour more than you ;) |
Kate stark
226
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 00:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
Debra Tao wrote:Cherry picking makes no sense. That's like saying that my trading income is huge because it took me 1 sec to sell an item for a 10mil profit... A correct average of the income in that case must take into account the search and travel that you have to do to only mine the best ore.
Anyway i don't know where you got your numbers but i trust isk per hour more than you ;)
my hulk's tooltip multiplied by the value of the ore. basic maths, really.
also cherry picking in high sec is easy, right click warp fleet. done.
Obvious Goon alt that's never mined a day in his life(!) |
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 00:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
Yeah... but cherry picking only high yield ores you gotta find them first, then approach and hope that someone hasn't mine there. Not to mention the fact that mining barges are slows.
My spreadsheet still disagrees with you, as does EVE IPH. |
Kate stark
226
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 00:49:00 -
[88] - Quote
Debra Tao wrote:Yeah... but cherry picking only high yield ores you gotta find them first, then approach and hope that someone hasn't mine there. Not to mention the fact that mining barges are slows.
My spreadsheet still disagrees with you, as does EVE IPH.
*shrug* these are the numbers i used to prove that the devblog was incorrect when the mining barge changes were announced so ccp indirectly said they were correct.
scordite isn't hard to find, you just warp to a belt.
Obvious Goon alt that's never mined a day in his life(!) |
Debra Tao
Perkone
Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 00:51:00 -
[89] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:*shrug* these are the numbers i used to prove that the devblog was incorrect when the mining barge changes were announced so ccp indirectly said they were correct.
heu wut ?  |
Kate stark
226
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 00:59:00 -
[90] - Quote
Debra Tao wrote:Kate stark wrote:*shrug* these are the numbers i used to prove that the devblog was incorrect when the mining barge changes were announced so ccp indirectly said they were correct.
heu wut ?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=140094&p=5
check the dev blog itself (linked in the op).
THIS
is the relevant post https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1764945#post1764945
Obvious Goon alt that's never mined a day in his life(!) |
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