| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kalhan
   |
Posted - 2003.07.14 15:17:00 -
[1]
I posted this in market forum but I think it needs its our topic.
This is a good debate. I think there should be a colaberation of corps. Like some sort of trade fedoration. We have Factions - Corporations - ( what would a group of corporations be called. )
Our corp make money off selling Amarr ships. I would like to form some sort of group. That would help make the prices of stuff stay above mineral cost and give some sort of profit to the corp.
If any other CEO's are interested in a group like this, post here or contact me ingame. I think this would be a good Idea.
In a group we could have one corp make one kind of ship or all kinds and one corp for ammo, ect...
And to keep other corps from lowering the prices. If we see someone selling stuff to low we ask them "nicely" to stop or the group goes to war. If Corps are at war wih each other police don't shoot you.
Who else like this Idea???
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.14 15:34:00 -
[2]
Even Traders can join in. instead of waiting for you one shipment of robotics to be qued and take the leftovers from richer players.
Expand your market Slaves - tourist - small arms ect.... Join a tradeing corp that is in a group and go to war with the ememy corp taking up all your goods with remote buy orders ( That would take them off the que. )
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.14 15:42:00 -
[3]
Ideas for Corp. member in a group
- a miner corp supllies manufacturing corps with minerals sells 1/3rd gives rest to group in return for supplies, ships and money.
- a Fighter Corp. profides protection for miner corp. trade corp. routes, Fights most of group wars. In return for ships, Supplies and money.
Corps in group would have to be orginazed and in check. If one group fails ex. Miner corp not forfilling orders good enough for group. they lose protection of fighter corp. ect....
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.14 15:45:00 -
[4]
One corp. can't fight "stupid" but 3 or 4 can. How can a corp who tries to sell ships thinking there getting 100% profit, sell a ship or even make one, if members from 3 to 4 corps are waiting outside there station and keeking there miners from working. With no interference from police??
Edited by: Kalhan on 14/07/2003 15:45:34
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.14 15:50:00 -
[5]
I see where you are going with stupid. If you were to buy the minerals instead of mine them. Lets say for an Omen (Amarr Crusier).
The Minerals would run you from 2.7 mill to 3 mill.
I see people selling them for 2.8 mill becuase they think that its all profit from mining the mineral instead of buying them. They are Stupid.
That is why the market for makeing frigates has died.
When mining and makeing good you should take into consideration. Mineral cost, labor and profit.
JUST BECUASE YOUR MINING THE MINERALS INSTEAD OF BUYING THEM DOESN'T MEAN THAT SHOULD BE THE COST TO SELL IT. DUMB PEOPLE!!
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.14 15:53:00 -
[6]
I garentee you if that corp can't mine there minerals cuase they can't go to a belt or leave the station with out being shot. They will raise there prices or else. all they have to do is raise there prices to keep from being killed.
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.14 16:04:00 -
[7]
Does nobody else like this Idea???
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 16:21:00 -
[8]
"This idea is plain stupid."
Constructive critism would be appresiated.
"You have the rights to underbid all you want if it's above minimal mineral cost, hey, it's my business if i only want to earn 1isk per battleship, and there should be no one to stop me."
Of Course you have the right to Sell it at whatever price you want. If give them away for free. Just as I have the right to form a group of corps and stop your production, nicely or by force. :)
"Even in real world, government only intervenes if the pricing is actually below the cost of production (i.e. big monopoly taking profit hits to kill small companies) There will be a bottom line when prices stop dropping, i mean, manufactures dont' make stuff to distribute freely."
I bet you didn't even read the whole post, and I can tell by your first sentince in this qoute.
I am not saying CCP or concord intervene, I am saying since this is suppose to be a player based economy, "like in the real world", Other companies ask nicely of one another to come to a good competive price range, otherwise a corporate war might break out. Unless you work at Denny's or a low level position. everyone knows in "the real world", this does happen.
"a cartel is impossible, because there will always be ppl who rides the price fix who are outside of your cartel, and will be glad to sell a few thousand isks short than your elevaated price. your cartel members might betray you, and even if you succeed, you will probably raise the price insanely high, which sucks for the rest of us :)"
Gas prices suck right now don't they? Are you paying them? Do you like it?
A cartel would be run like a Corp. just like in a corp members betray, you deal with them accordanly. But if a corp joins a cartel everyone gains, if the prices are high you gain more profit. If you gain more profit you can pay your members if you can pay your members more they can afford other corps prices. I have never taken any business classes but this seems right to me.
"i think what you are suggesting is almost to say that CCP should creat floor prices for items, if no players buys it, NPC will. Well that'll make EVE no different than anyother typical RPG, and thus no point playing."
Again reread the posts. did I say have CCP attack the miners? Did I say CCP regulate prices? Did I say CCP interven in anyway?
NO POINT!!?? At this point alot of ppl are bored of EVE but they still love it. This adds a whole new set of points. 1) Watch the market more closely. New feature allow you to see who is selling so you can ask them, "why so low?" 2) Protect your assest and profit with force or help. Since you can see the sellers this is very posible 3) Pirates are a essential part of the game. But, PvP was also ment for Corp and faction wars and with no interference from the police or hit on Sec rating, it seems it is encouraged.
"my suggestion is, suck it in and man up. there are always ways to make money. ppl outta stop *****ing and figure out ways to work the system."
Personnally I think you are the one complaining about my idea. I was asking for comments on a plan. I don't think I was complaining or "*****ing" as you so intellegently put it. And a work around is what this is.
I think what the problem is that you don't what to see a big corp. ask you to raise prices Then after you tell them to go suck it up. They come take out your ships and corp. members in 1.0 space.
The prices are too low. So bad that it hurts the economy. Don't you realize it is not even worth it to produce frigates cause of ppl selling under or at mineral cost becouse they think they are mining the minerals so it is all profit.
If you where a CEO of a real company Do you consider all your products sales profit because you have the matierals at hand. You have to pay your workers for the time they spent right?
Are you a carebear?
Edited by: Kalhan on 15/07/2003 16:23:17
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 16:43:00 -
[9]
If that is true. It can still be done. If we cann't attack then right off cause the corp doesn't want to go to war with us. I would work around it by have our group cruisers and battleships follow there miners around can steal, and other Corporate espienasge(forgive my spelling) stuff, even pay a pirate group to form a blockade to stop just those corp members. They will have to go to war with us in order to stop us and shoot at us.
I already have 3 20+ member corps who like the Idea and wish to work on some terms. Seems everyone wants to be the fighter corp. But Ideas on how this can be done would be greatly appriated.
Fixing this market problem would benifit everybody, if we have to do it by force then so be it.
Edited by: Kalhan on 15/07/2003 16:44:27
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 16:51:00 -
[10]
Would recruting a pirate corp to do the dirty work give there career path another point(as merc)? They would get the stuff they can't get in empire space, ie skill packets ect., as long as they help the allegence? They wouldn't be all the way trusted but who is.
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 16:59:00 -
[11]
Sorry about the stupid remark. I just couldn't figure out why, for example, with the cost of minerals right now ie iso at 54 or what ever, the minerals to build a Amarr Omen are 2.8 million. I see people selling for 2.8 million and below!!!!! BELOW!!!! I could just sell the minerals and make that much!! What about my time mining, hours of waiting for the product to be manufactured, the cost I paid for the BP. Shouldn't those be takin into account.
Tell me would you buy a car at 10k then without driving it turn around and sell it for 8k. What do you call someone that does that.
If they want ISK sell the minerals they would make more!
Edited by: Kalhan on 15/07/2003 17:05:49
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 17:05:00 -
[12]
Jash-
They would be business deals. I read somewhere that corporate takeover is suppose to be part of the game.
Just like pirating a role like a large corp allegence would be anouther opportunity, for somthing that is already suppose to be part of the game.
Why would you want to go and "strike 120 people carefree any time I wanted only to fade whenever/whereever I wanted." because you don't like the Idea. Please look at it again with a more open mind. Hostle stongarm actions are only a part of it. I would like other suggestion. The main Idea is fixing the market.
If you want to sell your Omen for below mineral cost. All we would say is please take it off the market, recyle it and sell the minerals cause you will make more. I mean you might as well give it away for free.
Edited by: Kalhan on 15/07/2003 17:07:38
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 17:17:00 -
[13]
I know people might get mad or not like it.
some people don't like the Moo. Some people don't like Microsoft or the gas companies.
Come on if I told you to sell it at a higher price ( a little above mineral cost and labor cost ) or same price as my corp and the rest of the corps in the region why wouldn't you?
The only reason the correct prices don't sell is becuase those corps. either don't understand what they are doing and they would make more money selling the minerals, or for some strange reason the corp. wants to populate the region with cheap crusiers while taking a profit hit.
Which one are you?
Edited by: Kalhan on 15/07/2003 17:17:56
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 17:25:00 -
[14]
Did you know that you can buy some ships from people and get them insured take them out into 0.0 space and get myself killed and make more money?
Do you want the people your selling your product too the gain profit off your products.
Edited by: Kalhan on 15/07/2003 17:26:24
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 17:39:00 -
[15]
What if I were to get one of those pirate corps you talk about to do the dirty work for us. What have they got to lose, there Sec rating. If you where the CEO of a pirate group and I offered an alliegnce if you blockade and attack my list of ememy corps in return for supplies (skills, ships and other manufactured good we make, or 1 mill isk a week) wouldn't you like a deal like that. You wouldn't have to turn to your alt to gain the money and get the skills to supply your Pirate char.
You could accually make a career path instead of a hobby, and do it full time.
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 17:51:00 -
[16]
Jash -
You seem to be taking this quite hard. is there something inperticular you don't like?
I am not at all threating you. You don't make sense to me. I am floating this Idea for fixing the market and all you seem to be getting out of it is that I want to strong arm people. I don't see you point. You seem to be forgeting that this is a just game.
But beside that you not only seem to be stuborn as you say but very vein. I know there are players bigger and much stronger then me but you got to realize that there are also players bigger and stronger then you. And If I were to be able to get just one corp. of these people that hate the market because of all the under buyers would you be upset if you could even Pod one of us.
You strike me as a person that doesn't like to lose or be bossed around.
But Off that. That not what I am talking about. If you have power and money to waste and throw away. Then do as you wish. But when it all runs out. We'll Gladly accept your App.
Edited by: Kalhan on 15/07/2003 17:58:34
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 17:57:00 -
[17]
See That is what I am talking about as - Kyle -said the market is dead and for some reason people think that if the mine for 4 hours and then produce for 8 hours They should still sell there product for lower then mineral cost becuase of all the other doing it or because they don't know how to run a business.
People spend days training the skills to manufacture and mine. Isn't your time and effort worth something as well.
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 18:05:00 -
[18]
"About your idea: With the highways in place, forget it. It would have been hard to do such a thing in beta with far less producers and far less travel between regions, but atm, itll be more than impossible."
How does this make it more imposible. If I get more corps to join and we start buy "regulating the price in one System, then move to the Constellion, then up to region. Wouldn't the highways make expanding our efforts easier.
You see Jash seems to think that I am out to get him or people like him for some reason. When all I am looking for is help to fix the market keep it from dieing BEFORE all the people start whining and CCP does something drastic and destroys everything. Plus it would be fun.
Jash - your critism on why this would work is greatfull. But I am looking for people to offer a solution as well not just. Say "I don't like it!!, it really bothers me and I am getting all mad, look at me I am mad I will kill all your group members"
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 18:29:00 -
[19]
Roleplaying the Events would be fun to something like a "Microsoft lawyer" :). That is my goal. To have fun, Why do some people get so angry at Ideas.
About the highways. The Highways mostly connect the races and some of the other large systems. But is you go from one to the other. It is hard for example to Buy an Omen in Gallente Space. I am not saying jackup the prices so far nobody buys and everybodies angry. Just enough so my members and miners get the profit for working they deserve.
|
Kalhan
|
Posted - 2003.07.15 20:42:00 -
[20]
Jash -
That would be fun I would like a challange like that I thought you were just going off like some of the other posters I see that slander other becuase they don't agree. But I see your roleplay as a welcomed challenge NOw if only I can get more corps that like that Idea.
I see your point as it seeming Mifia like. That is not my intent. I was think of first explaining to them what is wrong with the picture, and coming to a compromise before saying do it or else we also would like to try and get them to join. It is not good business to threaten those you wish to make your allies.
"If someone is undercutting your prices on the market, why don't you simply buy out their supply and mark it up to your price? If it's a ship it'll take them time to restock the supply, during which time you make a profit off their work (because you bought low and sold high)."
That is a good Idea I like it. I also like the inseruse scam with the sellers who sell really low.
|
| |
|