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Angry Sheep	Posted - 2005.07.11 07:47:00 - [1] This debate seems to take up peoples time for ages, simple: new 1,000,000 secure can* capacity 1,300,000 max anchoring time (after which it unanchors) 24 hours done It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Valen L'eganas	Posted - 2005.07.11 07:55:00 - [2] Edited by: Valen L''eganas on 11/07/2005 07:55:24 Ehm... I like the idea! But, who or what is gonna haul that thing to its location? ---------------------- Homo Sapiens non Urinat in ventum
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.07.11 07:56:00 - [3] Explain to me again why jet can mining needs to be fixed cos i really dont see a problem with it Forums: Sharks * MC
Chrisb6122	Posted - 2005.07.11 07:59:00 - [4] Edited by: Chrisb6122 on 11/07/2005 08:00:08 The reason this gentelemen beleaves jet cans need fixing is because he has most likely been robbed by an ore thief usually an alt, so using all avilable game mechanics to avoid risk... i have no problem with ore thiefing tb, just most hide behind alts which ****es me off
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:07:00 - [5] Originally by: Chrisb6122 Edited by: Chrisb6122 on 11/07/2005 08:00:08 The reason this gentelemen beleaves jet cans need fixing is because he has most likely been robbed by an ore thief usually an alt, so using all avilable game mechanics to avoid risk... i have no problem with ore thiefing tb, just most hide behind alts which ****es me off Well, if he had used all the available game mechanics his ore would be safe. Your point? ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Galazar	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:10:00 - [6] If you dont like your ore being theived...use secure cans, jet cans are the punishment you pay for not buying giant secure containers. Granted i do agree they need to make some even larger secure cans...perhaps 10-15,000m3
ErrorS	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Chrisb6122 Edited by: Chrisb6122 on 11/07/2005 08:00:08 The reason this gentelemen beleaves jet cans need fixing is because he has most likely been robbed by an ore thief usually an alt, so using all avilable game mechanics to avoid risk... i have no problem with ore thiefing tb, just most hide behind alts which ****es me off Well, if he had used all the available game mechanics his ore would be safe. Your point? HUH? please don't tell me you're talking about secure cans.. please? ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:22:00 - [8] Hiya, I'm quite new to EVE :) I have no problems with can mining myself and I have no problem with there being ore thefs. Its a fact of the game as for as I see and if you can't protect your can then why even bother mining? Takes me an age to fill a can atm (about an hour and a half) and in that time if my ore gets stolen then I take it on the chin LIKE A MAN
Angry Sheep	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:23:00 - [9] Ok I srewed on the mnath a bit 10,000 m3, capacity 13,000m3 secondly I dont mine becuse I have so many disconnect's (espcially before a cycle would end.) when I did min I never had ore stolen but I do beleive that a 'secure' option should be available. It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Chucky	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Galazar If you dont like your ore being theived...use secure cans, jet cans are the punishment you pay for not buying giant secure containers. Granted i do agree they need to make some even larger secure cans...perhaps 10-15,000m3 Jet cans can't be anchored with in 5km from roids which can be a serious pain, along with being way to small to be useful ... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:26:00 - [11] Could you guys stop using that same phrase over and over again ??? First of you CAN'T use secure can in 0.8 and up... Second you CAN'T anchor them closer than 5000 meter to nearest object. Third... and most important... They hold less than my pockets!!! Now if you can do that in 0.8 and up.. please let me know because I would like to use secure cans if I can, if you take a secure can and put it there the oretheif do not only get the ore but also the container!!! So now can we get back on track ??? we have established that you can't use secure cans in 0.8 and up, we can't anchor them closer than 5000 meter and therefor making mining less effective (wich you guys need it to be because you don't want to pay 1 billion for a battleship), They don't hold much and therefor mining is less profitable and efficiency.. oh and not everybody got 2 accounts or more!!!!! So repeating same lie won't make it more truth, jetcan mining is only viable option in 0.8 and up... ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor. 13:11
Sun Ra	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:30:00 - [12] Stop mining in newb systems ore thiefs normally operate in systems that have loads of people mining, use a few brain cells and try somewhere quieter????? Frank made me do it
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:37:00 - [13] Originally by: Arcticblue2 Could you guys stop using that same phrase over and over again ??? First of you CAN'T use secure can in 0.8 and up... Second you CAN'T anchor them closer than 5000 meter to nearest object. Third... and most important... They hold less than my pockets!!! Now if you can do that in 0.8 and up.. please let me know because I would like to use secure cans if I can, if you take a secure can and put it there the oretheif do not only get the ore but also the container!!! So now can we get back on track ??? we have established that you can't use secure cans in 0.8 and up, we can't anchor them closer than 5000 meter and therefor making mining less effective (wich you guys need it to be because you don't want to pay 1 billion for a battleship), They don't hold much and therefor mining is less profitable and efficiency.. oh and not everybody got 2 accounts or more!!!!! So repeating same lie won't make it more truth, jetcan mining is only viable option in 0.8 and up... Look. If you can't anchor a can in a system, but you are worried that an ore thief can get lots of ore off you in a short space of time - GET OUT OF THE SYSTEM. You can't anchor your damn can because all the Probes and Bantams get confused and start trying to mine them. You know, those n00bs who didn't mine enough ore to actually make it worth undocking an indy. Oh, and I tried out all the 'secure cans are useless' claims at the weekend with my uber hauler alt. I anchored 6 cans and managed to find a pattern where I could empty them all in less than 50 seconds from warp-in. (and yes there were lots of roids in range). Miners cry on because they want full security (no npc's or players to bother them), for zero effort and zero additional time investment. They strip mine n00b systems and moan when their 5 barge mining party gets robbed. BuHu. All they do by comming here is point out their inability to play the game. We laugh at you. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Hatchplug	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:48:00 - [14] Why don't you mine using your cargo hold? Seriously.
MadGaz	Posted - 2005.07.11 08:58:00 - [15] Originally by: Hatchplug Why don't you mine using your cargo hold? Seriously. You asking that has the same effect as me asking you to post with your main, none ------------------------------------------
Dirty Davey	Posted - 2005.07.11 09:01:00 - [16] Secure cans are really no option if you sit in a Barge.. In a 3 minute cyle I have filled 4000 cargo, I'd need 50 secure cans to be effective. Only option to be save right now is a second hauling account, and even then you are vulnerable in the time the transporter takes to dock and stuff. Ore thiefes are the scum of the universe (in my opinion), and I wouldn't be so angry about them if I could blast them into oblivion...
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2005.07.11 09:08:00 - [17] Mining Improvements Discussion please come and add your ideas. With more heads coming together more and better ideas can be fleshed out. in that thread there are a few ideas to specifically take care of the Jet Can controversy. so don't be shy, take a look and let's put our ideas out there. ------------------------------------------------- For the price of one can of Quafe cola a day, you can adopt an Ewok... Please... think of the Ewoks...
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.11 09:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Dirty Davey Secure cans are really no option if you sit in a Barge.. In a 3 minute cyle I have filled 4000 cargo, I'd need 50 secure cans to be effective. Only option to be save right now is a second hauling account, and even then you are vulnerable in the time the transporter takes to dock and stuff. Ore thiefes are the scum of the universe (in my opinion), and I wouldn't be so angry about them if I could blast them into oblivion... In a barge? ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Angry Sheep	Posted - 2005.07.11 09:38:00 - [19] so add secure cans that can only be anchored for 'x' time and allow them in secure systems... worry over It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.11 09:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Angry Sheep so add secure cans that can only be anchored for 'x' time and allow them in secure systems... worry over Put in a game mechanic which means 1000's of little can timers running, lagging up the systems which are already lagged to hell .. or get miners to move to systems where you can already anchor cans... Yup, I can see that being a tough call. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Dirty Davey	Posted - 2005.07.11 09:53:00 - [21] In a barge? What you mean with "In a barge"? 3 Mod Strip Miners 2 with Tech 2 Crystals, ok it's not 4000 cargo but very close. And did you know that "Avon" is a cosmetics company, dunno from where, but they fake real cosmetics stuff, and here in germany only the 60+ people buy that **** hehe...
Selena 001	Posted - 2005.07.11 09:55:00 - [22] This is been discussed to death: "Yarr, avast... if you dont use secure cans its ye own fault " - VERY helpful, from someone who has never mined for more than 15 minutes in a barge. "Ack, secure cans are so damned small its pointless " - True, but CCP dont plan to fix this EVER, because they cant spare 10 minutes out of their hectic schedule to either copy a can and change its cargo space, or code a flagging system. As with all things, the happy chappy's who want CCP to do nothing (in this case the theivs) win by default, cause CCP cant be arsed / Dont have the incentive to do anything. ALL i can say is, if you wonderfully uber PvP characters (who do nothing but say "There is no Problem with jet can mining") expect to fly dreadnoughts, you had better rethink they way you treat the people who mine all the **** for it... If you'd prefer we mine 3Km3 of veld/scord then have to haul, so be it... but dont expect to be getting the 120 mill of trit (and god knows what else) you need in a hurry ___________
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.11 09:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Dirty Davey In a barge? What you mean with "In a barge"? 3 Mod Strip Miners 2 with Tech 2 Crystals, ok it's not 4000 cargo but very close. And did you know that "Avon" is a cosmetics company, dunno from where, but they fake real cosmetics stuff, and here in germany only the 60+ people buy that **** hehe... I don't doubt your mining ability, I doubt your ability to blast people who take your ore. Also Avon is (almost dead) cosmetics company. It is also a character from the superb 80's Sci-Fi series 'Blake's 7' It is clear to me that you have a greater interest in make up than sci-fi, but worryingly that doesn't surprise me. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Selena 001 This is been discussed to death: "Yarr, avast... if you dont use secure cans its ye own fault " - VERY helpful, from someone who has never mined for more than 15 minutes in a barge. "Ack, secure cans are so damned small its pointless " - True, but CCP dont plan to fix this EVER, because they cant spare 10 minutes out of their hectic schedule to either copy a can and change its cargo space, or code a flagging system. As with all things, the happy chappy's who want CCP to do nothing (in this case the theivs) win by default, cause CCP cant be arsed / Dont have the incentive to do anything. ALL i can say is, if you wonderfully uber PvP characters (who do nothing but say "There is no Problem with jet can mining") expect to fly dreadnoughts, you had better rethink they way you treat the people who mine all the **** for it... If you'd prefer we mine 3Km3 of veld/scord then have to haul, so be it... but dont expect to be getting the 120 mill of trit (and god knows what else) you need in a hurry Most uber PvP characters have little interest in flying dread's, simply because the tactical applications of those ships are very limited. The people who want dreads are the same people who want faction BS's ... which is why they are whining like hell they can't use them to cruise around secure space. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Dirty Davey	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Dirty Davey In a barge? What you mean with "In a barge"? 3 Mod Strip Miners 2 with Tech 2 Crystals, ok it's not 4000 cargo but very close. And did you know that "Avon" is a cosmetics company, dunno from where, but they fake real cosmetics stuff, and here in germany only the 60+ people buy that **** hehe... I don't doubt your mining ability, I doubt your ability to blast people who take your ore. Also Avon is (almost dead) cosmetics company. It is also a character from the superb 80's Sci-Fi series 'Blake's 7' It is clear to me that you have a greater interest in make up than sci-fi, but worryingly that doesn't surprise me. Ok, that I won't attack in a barge, even I know that, but as I said I have 2 accounts, and ore thiefes are usual in the same system for some time, and they visit the same belt more then once. So basicly your "in a barge" answer was as useless as antiperspirant from Avon. And you were right, I am quite interested in cosmetic stuff, but mainly for my feet (I am told they are very smelly):
Selena 001	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Avon Most uber PvP characters have little interest in flying dread's, simply because the tactical applications of those ships are very limited. The people who want dreads are the same people who want faction BS's ... which is why they are whining like hell they can't use them to cruise around secure space. Limited tactical applications? really...? were you on Sisi when everyone got to try and take down a few Devs? That more than proved they could be used in fleet combat... but nevermind that. My post was more aimed at the people who do not mine often (I'm going to assume you are one of those people - and I dont much care if you are not), and how they enjoy debating a subject which doesn't effect them directly. Mining has been neglected for a LONG time, and even you can't deny that. The most recent addition that affected it was the introduction of tech II mining drones.. (big whoop.. look how long it too CCP to implement those ). Its about time mining could be done without the fear of having some asshat scoop everything you've been working to get. (Oh, and for gods sake, dont spout that crap about secure cans... again... please, I beg of you) ___________
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:22:00 - [27] Edited by: Avon on 11/07/2005 10:22:23 Originally by: Dirty Davey Originally by: Avon Originally by: Dirty Davey In a barge? What you mean with "In a barge"? 3 Mod Strip Miners 2 with Tech 2 Crystals, ok it's not 4000 cargo but very close. And did you know that "Avon" is a cosmetics company, dunno from where, but they fake real cosmetics stuff, and here in germany only the 60+ people buy that **** hehe... I don't doubt your mining ability, I doubt your ability to blast people who take your ore. Also Avon is (almost dead) cosmetics company. It is also a character from the superb 80's Sci-Fi series 'Blake's 7' It is clear to me that you have a greater interest in make up than sci-fi, but worryingly that doesn't surprise me. Ok, that I won't attack in a barge, even I know that, but as I said I have 2 accounts, and ore thiefes are usual in the same system for some time, and they visit the same belt more then once. So basicly your "in a barge" answer was as useless as antiperspirant from Avon. And you were right, I am quite interested in cosmetic stuff, but mainly for my feet (I am told they are very smelly): http://www.stealth.se/fatbob.jpg lol So, you are going to use a second character to protect your can? Firstly you are assuming a flag would not be limited to the owner of the can, and Secondly, why not just use that character to haul, or mine? Jeez. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Verone	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:30:00 - [28] Verone sighs... Here we go again... MY NAME IS VERONE OF SNIGG, AND I AM GOING TO KILL YOU TILL YOU DIE FROM IT.*
Dirty Davey	Posted - 2005.07.11 10:39:00 - [29] Argh, I use the second acount for hauling, but in case an ore thief comes around, I could wait for him with a fighting ship and stil not be able to kill him. I really think Jettison Cans should be lootable by everyone, if you want safety use Sec Cans, but you should be able to defend your jettisoned stuff... And I dont understand ore thiefs.. It cant be more profitable then doing trade runs with their indy. I only got ripped of once, I mine in a 0.5 without a station and haul the ore 1 jump (Got a MWD II on my transporter) so I'm almost alone, but I felt so damn helpless..
Rafein	Posted - 2005.07.11 11:05:00 - [30] Actually, I would not mind seeing 2 new levels of Secure cans. And tie the number of Jetcans to your Anchoring skill. So with Anchoring 5, can anchor max 25 cans.
Plekto	Posted - 2005.07.12 02:09:00 - [31] No pity from me. There are tons of .5 and .6 systems with 15-30 belts in them. So far I've not lost a single can worth of stuff because I mine where few people are. I mean, who's going to be mining belt 14 out of 25? Yes. Not a typo. There are systems with over 25 belts in them in secure space. Newbie-filled systems with high sec and two belts - yeah, you get what you get.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.07.12 02:22:00 - [32] Originally by: Arcticblue2 Could you guys stop using that same phrase over and over again ??? First of you CAN'T use secure can in 0.8 and up... Newbie systems. Quote: Second you CAN'T anchor them closer than 5000 meter to nearest object. Strip Miner 1s = 15,000m Quote: Third... and most important... They hold less than my pockets!!! Lots of junk in your trunk if you need pants that big. Quote: So now can we get back on track ??? we have established that you can't use secure cans in 0.8 and up, we can't anchor them closer than 5000 meter and therefor making mining less effective (wich you guys need it to be because you don't want to pay 1 billion for a battleship), They don't hold much and therefor mining is less profitable and efficiency.. oh and not everybody got 2 accounts or more!!!!! lol, nm _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Allen Deckard	Posted - 2005.07.12 02:25:00 - [33] first Those big cans DO exist in the client database. second I find it to funny how many people actually defend ore thieves and get sooooo upset when someone complains about ore thieves. If you really wanted these threads to go away if all you ore thief defenders stopped posting in them they would be gone in about 3 mins.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.07.12 02:28:00 - [34] Originally by: Hatchplug Why don't you mine using your cargo hold? Seriously. I'd like to see it with modulated miners, especially of hte deep core type. Whenever I mine I don't care about ore thieves - if some moron tries and thieve my ore 13 ogres from my ship and probably at least a dozen more will come from other ships in the mining op and blast the hauler out of the sky. The some nearby ceptor pilot will probably be bored enough to chase down the pod. The problem of course is that you nerf mining all around if you nerf jet cans. With dreadnoughts, outposts and etc. in the game - we need MORE efficient ways of mining, not LESS.

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