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Jhousetlin Zamayid
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
   |
Posted - 2013.02.02 00:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
hello everyone,
i started playing this game the other day. my rl friend got me into it. she got me set up with the skill queue, gave me a list of skills to train for industry, contracted me a few items to put on the market, and then went off to do her own thing in war space. im not particularly interested in fighting a war in my imparier nor do i have any pvp skills not to mention her corp only recruits seasoned pvpers so im on my own for now. well ive been logging in and managing my market stuff, ive got a bit of isk now that everything sold, but theres nothing to do and im bored. i was told to join a corp so i thought id give it a go.
first corp sends me, literally, a small novel of rules and regulations and procedures. i quietly bow out of their public channel and keep looking. finally i find a friendly person who seems interested in having me, until i mention that my friend introduced me to the game and i was denied entry because:
"Unfortunately, with your age, that makes you a liability."
"I recommend that you either join your friend, or start a new character. You look like a corp killer."
"In 7 days, you can fly a hurricane with 2 medium neuts capable of dropping any battleship in the game"
1 hour later, api keys and finally a response -
"Sorry, your risk has been assessed as too high"
i dont even know what that means, but apparently 1 day old characters are a force to be reckoned with? my friend did tell me this game is full of a certain type of player who is very paranoid and thinks everyone is out to get them and will find any little reason not to let you into a corp. so far ive spent 3 hours today looking for a corp and they all tell me the same stuff.
this is really discouraging and im now questioning if this is even the game i want to play. |
Jhousetlin Zamayid
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 00:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
they told me to "wait a couple of days" so that i dont look like a spy or a thief. well im wondering - if thats true, then wouldn't spies and thieves do the same?! |
Merouk Baas
502
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 00:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are a lot of paranoid people. Some of the paranoia is justified, because:
- Others can't tell a true newbie character from a secret spy alt character.
- New characters can still steal everything in the corporation hangars, spy on the corporation comms and website channels, and provide an approach vector for an enemy fleet to drop right on top of unsuspecting corp members and destroy them.
The API keys are used to see if you may possibly be a spy. They're looking for past corporation memberships, money transfers from people in enemy corps or alliances, lots of ISK in the wallet, etc, but again it's an art of guessing, they don't have access to your real life info to be able to tell that you're truly a newbie.
I would recommend forgive them and keep trying.
But realize that, typically in MMO games (not just this one), the advanced guilds/corps aren't really looking for newbies. End-game raiders in WoW for example won't have use for a low level character. This game has some roles that a newbie can do in PVP combat in a frigate, but you may be better off joining the EVE Uni or a smaller corp before going for the big alliances out there. |
Karloth Valois
Temnava Legion
No Holes Barred
67
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 00:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bascally the corp though you were an alt of your friend that they were putting into highsec corps to steal or kill a few mission runners before they are kicked out of corp.
Some people are very worried about who they let into there corp, which in a game like this helps. But there are plenty out there that will let you in, just make sure they aint just recruiting anyone just for the numbers, your get nothing out of it, maybe ask your friend to help you check a corp before you join, let you know whether its worth joining or just something to feed the CEOs ego/wallet
It's not been nice, but thanks for using lube
|
Jhousetlin Zamayid
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 00:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
"But realize that, typically in MMO games (not just this one), the advanced guilds/corps aren't really looking for newbies. End-game raiders in WoW for example won't have use for a low level character. This game has some roles that a newbie can do in PVP combat in a frigate, but you may be better off joining the EVE Uni or a smaller corp before going for the big alliances out there."
they were just a 17 man industry corp. in fact, the corporation itself is less than a month old - maybe i should be scared of **them**!!! |
Merouk Baas
502
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 00:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
High-sec corps are dumb, most of them. There's not much in high sec that you need other people for, so they're mostly social groups of people who otherwise like to solo. It's clear that they expect newbies to be flabbergasted by the "complexity" of the game and spend about a week trying to figure out WTF, and you're not following their expectations. Based on this, I'd guess that corp is crap.
Keep trying.
Finding good corps in this game is pretty tough. It's not a quick game, and people have been around for 10 years and have established their closed cliques and they don't really want to "risk" anything. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
1051
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 02:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sounds like you applied to a corp run by morons which is entirely typical of smalltime highsec industrialists.
Remember that in EVE a lot of players, even experienced ones are totally stupid and will come to conclusions that bare no relation to reality, particularly if they involve dealing with other people, flying spaceships or doing basic math. I mean some of them will even seriously disagree with you if you tell them that you need to factor in costs in order to calculate profit properly.
What they are probably worried about is people putting spy alts into their corps as a precursor to a war declaration, which is dumb because nobody is going to go through that effort for a 17 man industrial corp, if you're going to declare war on them you'd just do it and be done with it.
But yeah, keep looking, find a less ******** corp and join that instead. |
Praxis Ginimic
249
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 02:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
There are always indy corps looking for fresh miners in the recruitment sub-forum. Take your time. Find one with a sign on bonus and a minerals buy back plan. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
7325
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 03:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Join a pirate corp, they'll take anyone 
http://media.fukung.net/images/2743/test_terrorist.jpg
"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Zorro Zohan Ducksauce
The Thirteen of Qarth
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 04:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
= bads denied themselves a new member. Don't worry, you wouldn't want to play with that kind of people anyway. |
Kane Alvo
Coronis Corporation
13
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 10:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:High-sec corps are dumb, most of them. There's not much in high sec that you need other people for, so they're mostly social groups of people who otherwise like to solo. It's clear that they expect newbies to be flabbergasted by the "complexity" of the game and spend about a week trying to figure out WTF, and you're not following their expectations. Based on this, I'd guess that corp is crap.
Keep trying.
Finding good corps in this game is pretty tough. It's not a quick game, and people have been around for 10 years and have established their closed cliques and they don't really want to "risk" anything.
This. ^
I ran into the same problem. The in-game corp finder is a serious piece of crap, so I turned to the forums and made a list of corps to contact. With one corp, I spent some time in their chat channel, and within an hour, was deemed a spy because I "knew too much about the game" for a newbie. After sending a full API, I was kicked and banned from the channel, then was sent a mail confirming that they thought I was a spy. To their credit, they had a pending wardec, but the whole thing was just ridiculous.
Just keep looking, and you'll find a home. I'm actually happy that things worked out this way for me, because I found a great corp full of helpful people that are teaching me the ins and outs of the game. |
Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens
Rookie Empire
140
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 11:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
This is eve as for now. Due to badly designed and implemented corporate role system, limitations of POS mechanics and few other crappy game mechanic thing...
I have one advise for you: Dont give up. Its just like real life and finding that dread job of yours.... Its not easy.
Theres tons of different corporations, some good, some bad and some very very bad...
Were all seen too many times how spy-¦s have destroyed otherwise viable corporations from inside. Or thiefs rob corporations blind... etc...
But that's all the charm of eve-¦s lure. Part of its unique gameworld thats has kept me playing now more thatn 4 years...
[Insert something funny or smart here]
Good lord has set me on path, sometimes im confused about what he wants from me. But path leads on, towards why he placed me on this wonderfull planet... |
Soft Insanity
Strange Energy
Gentlemen's Agreement
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 14:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote:hello everyone,
i started playing this game the other day. my rl friend got me into it. she got me set up with the skill queue, gave me a list of skills to train for industry, contracted me a few items to put on the market, and then went off to do her own thing in war space. im not particularly interested in fighting a war in my imparier nor do i have any pvp skills not to mention her corp only recruits seasoned pvpers so im on my own for now. well ive been logging in and managing my market stuff, ive got a bit of isk now that everything sold, but theres nothing to do and im bored. i was told to join a corp so i thought id give it a go.
This is what got you denied right here. As someone who has seen these before, you are a possible flag as a spy/awoxer (someone who ganks ships)/thief whatever. There is one thing that flagged you that way: you got free stuff. Common process for a ganker is to apply with a new alt to an indy corp, train really quick to a gank setup like they said and use the ships to gank until kicked.
If your friend was any good, they would direct you to a good place for new people to start like Eve University or RvB or the like. But for now, any real security guy worth anything is going to deny you depending on where you friend came from.
For the corp that denied you, there is almost no risk in doing so. There are plenty of indy noobs and taking the chance on a possible awoxer isn't worth it. That sucks for you but Eve is a harsh realm. |
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 15:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Unfortunately it is very common for small highsec corps to looks for any reason to reject someone even after a full api. Lot's of times it is because they either are too stupid to put in procedures to protect themselves and their assets, or they were the victim of a highsec awoxxer or ganker and so they take it out on every true newbie that comes along. I can say from experience most of those corps aren't even worth it even if you managed to get in. What you would end up finding is a corp where no-one works together and does their own thing, thus whenever crap did hit the fan they didn't know what to do with themselves.
It is a hard and sometimes long process to find a good corp but once you do you won't want to leave them. My main (this is my industrialist alt) has been in the same corp for over 2.5 years and I have never had the interest to leave, even after losing 0.0 space floating around lowsec and npc 0.0 afterward. But I did have to go through my share of good and bad corps to get there.
I have spent almost 5 years in Eve so far, and I still love it like my first day as a newb. In the end it is all about just finding your niche and finding a corp with people you can become good friends with. Someday you may end up joining your friend in that pvp corp.
I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart. |
Jhousetlin Zamayid
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 15:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Soft Insanity wrote:Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote:hello everyone,
i started playing this game the other day. my rl friend got me into it. she got me set up with the skill queue, gave me a list of skills to train for industry, contracted me a few items to put on the market, and then went off to do her own thing in war space. im not particularly interested in fighting a war in my imparier nor do i have any pvp skills not to mention her corp only recruits seasoned pvpers so im on my own for now. well ive been logging in and managing my market stuff, ive got a bit of isk now that everything sold, but theres nothing to do and im bored. i was told to join a corp so i thought id give it a go.
This is what got you denied right here. As someone who has seen these before, you are a possible flag as a spy/awoxer (someone who ganks ships)/thief whatever. There is one thing that flagged you that way: you got free stuff. Common process for a ganker is to apply with a new alt to an indy corp, train really quick to a gank setup like they said and use the ships to gank until kicked. If your friend was any good, they would direct you to a good place for new people to start like Eve University or RvB or the like. But for now, any real security guy worth anything is going to deny you depending on where you friend came from. For the corp that denied you, there is almost no risk in doing so. There are plenty of indy noobs and taking the chance on a possible awoxer isn't worth it. That sucks for you but Eve is a harsh realm.
well my question is this then if i really was a "corp killer"... wouldnt i wait until i was ready to kill them to send myself the money? why concoct this elaborate tale of a rl friend? i mean really its so dumb; i feel like their paranoia serves no purpose except to ironically keep the newbies and good players out and just filter in the thieves!
|
Jhousetlin Zamayid
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 15:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
thanks everyone for your replies. i think im going to go it alone for now... if i end up getting bored and leaving well c'est la vie, "player generated world" right? |
Soft Insanity
Strange Energy
Gentlemen's Agreement
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 16:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote:
well my question is this then if i really was a "corp killer"... wouldnt i wait until i was ready to kill them to send myself the money? why concoct this elaborate tale of a rl friend? i mean really its so dumb; i feel like their paranoia serves no purpose except to ironically keep the newbies and good players out and just filter in the thieves!
Keep in mind I am not arguing with you, this is merely enlightenment on what went wrong from my perspective. Not saying you are, just putting it out there.
Yes, a smart awoxer will wait til he's in to start moving money around. Not everyone is a smart awoxer. They don't understand API keys and what they show or just think most indy corps won't bother looking for transactions like that, or they will simply buy your story.
Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, you had a friend that gave you a helping hand. The problem is your friend seems to be a combat pilot and you aren't.
Your solution is not to go alone. You aren't blacklisted. You have a slight gimp coming out of the gate. I can say with 100% assurance someone will take you. They will overlook it, or simply miss it and will be glad for an extra set of hands. Eventually your own play and reputation will overcome any lingering doubts about you and you'll be fine.
Absolutely do not just play alone. Join Eve University if nothing else and get with those guys to learn. |
Jhousetlin Zamayid
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 16:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
i thought eve was a pvp game, but im starting to get the impression that people who pvp are like... ostracized? |
Soft Insanity
Strange Energy
Gentlemen's Agreement
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 16:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote:i thought eve was a pvp game, but im starting to get the impression that people who pvp are like... ostracized?
You may have just made the greatest joke ever without having known it. If anything, my alliance and its friends are accused of being in the largest blob ever of PvP players and ruining the game with our giant pile of friends.
Practical answer: there are null sec coalitions that run in the tens of thousands of players. Low sec and high sec combat groups that run from thousands to tens and hundreds and small ganking fleets that run from tens to soloers.
High sec carebears who don't like getting shot in their belts and missions DO dislike PvPers but of course they do, we make their stuff go boom. |
Merouk Baas
502
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 16:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
EVE is a PVP game. It is not, however, a FPS, where you can create a brand new toon, be given a gun, and immediately be able to get a 1000 kill / hr record. This is an MMO, which means long term character progression. Your friend did you a service by setting you up with some starting cash, but is now abandoning you instead of providing tutorials, guides, and continued benefits as you grow.
And you're finding out that other people, unlike in WoW or other PVE MMO games, don't really care to help you specifically out with what you need (a corp); it's not their purpose for playing the game. We're helping you out with advice here because we like to, but it's also not the reason why we play the game.
PVP people are not ostracized, they are just in their own world out there making wars, like your friend, and in high-sec there are people who pretty much want to avoid PVP. They're players just like everyone else, and it's their choice. You can't force someone to accept you into their corp.
For example, I wouldn't accept you based on your portrait; I hate the color brown. Provide all the APIs you want, I just won't take you. Feel free to complain on the forums, and get fixated on why?, why? drama, rather than moving on and finding another corp. |
Jhousetlin Zamayid
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.02 16:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
kk |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
328
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 04:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
You're indy huh, are you mining and selling, mining and building, what are you're long term plans?
One way into the hearts of a null indy corp is to skill to become a Capitol ship builder, elite miner, and T-2 builder.
Wormhole corp much the same and elite salvager, T-3 builder, R&D.
Hi sec depends on specialization of corp.
The reason indy corps are very worried is the awoxing and general grief play of people trying to disrupt the building process.
Although PVP corporations are picky to a point they will pickup noobs as cannon fodder.
Indy corps wouldn't have much use for new folks with 0 skill.
Don't let this discourage you from pursuing an indy toon, having an indy toon is a big help even to yourself. |
Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
365
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 18:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
I really wouldn't know one way or another, but i'd be interested to know if OP is farming here for new player friendly corps to AWOX. Just that crack about people being risk averse.. vet like 
Try RvB if you want to do pvp, then when rvb gets constrictive you will have skills to be required in a better corp. If you want to do industry get established doing that and see what you can offer an indy corp.
Hiring you on day 1 is like a company hiring someone with no CV, no References and in fact no Proof of Identity or history of being alive at all just walked in off the street. Likely you will end up working at McDonalds' eve equivelant. Once you work them burgers for a month you can get promoted or find a better job and repeat the process. It's just like real life and no more suspicious that i can see. Once you have a few corps on your history that all say ok things about you it will get easier to get hired.
When you join a proper corp you aren't asking to be a part of a friend group or social circle, you are getting a job. The job should benefit you and the company and should be the reason you are working together. New players cost corps in terms of time spent training you and helping you along, it's not worth the risk for every person. Your job is to make it worth while for them to take the time, and they should make it worth your while to stick with them after training.
If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if 'm online.
BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
1885
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 21:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote:i thought eve was a pvp game, but im starting to get the impression that people who pvp are like... ostracized?
We are... by people who don't like ship on ship violence.
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Join a pirate corp, they'll take anyone
This is good advice. I've found pirates to be some of the most relaxed and friendly people in the game (if a little twisted and dickish).
This is why you should try to be friends with some PvPers (I recommend low-sec pirates and/or FW people) and hone your industrial skills. You will find a near endless supply of business with such people and have the most bloodthirsty defenders any industry guy could want.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
152
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 00:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:...in high-sec there are people who pretty much want to avoid PVP...
*cough*
Not everyone in high sec, mind you.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
Callduron
173
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 01:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jhousetlin Zamayid wrote:i thought eve was a pvp game, but im starting to get the impression that people who pvp are like... ostracized?
Easiest way to get started as a pvp player is to join an alliance known as Red Vs Blue. These guys do non-stop arranged fights in low level ships. Once you make friends with people there you can ask if someone will take you off for a deeper pvp experience. Might be a bit hard financially until you learn to snatch loot fast.
Alternatively faction warfare is very good way to start in pvp and pays much better than RvB.
http://rvbeve.com/forums/index.php?/portal/
http://www.gamerchick.net/2012/06/guide-how-to-join-faction-warfare.html |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
3030
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 05:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
As a hisec carebear, let me illuminate you on the recruiter's perspective.
Character less than a week old is applying to my corp: fine, I do have recruitment ads running, after all.
Player shows higher than expected awareness of game mechanics, ship fitting, skill planning, etc: spider sense is tingling, this might just be a player who invested the time reading forums and guides before starting an account (like I did before signing up) or it could be en experienced character looking for new PvP opportunities.
API shows any kind of interaction with anyone from nullsec, pirate or griefer corps, or known associates? Instant fail. Toxic character, will not touch.
You might legitimately be a new player who actually does have a friend in a major nullsec alliance. That friend might actually have provided you with material aid with no intention of using you as a spy. But the balance of probabilities is that you are interested in PvP for purposes of tear extraction. You are friends with a CFC/HBC member because you share similar world views. At some time you are going to get bored of life in my hisec industrial corp, and on your way out you will take anything that isn't nailed down, and you will probably take the opportunity to awox and prevent us kicking you out by staying logged in, in space, flying a cloaked ship of some kind. Or maybe your friend just wants an all-access API key so they can keep an eye on your character and advise on training.
Then there is the voice chat interview: is the applicant a stoner and/or displays a short attention span? If I run missions with this guy, is he likely to get bored and start shooting me instead? Will this guy start bumping mining fleets out of boredom?
There are ways I can insulate my corp and alliance from what damage you might cause when we recruit you, but the easiest way of protecting ourselves is to reject any applicant who carries the taint of interaction with nullsec or pirate corps. CCP doesn't give us any rewards for taking a chance on "the new guy". The risk is entirely ours. The only reward is having a new person in the corp who is actually social and participates in group activities.
For some, the reward of new blood is worth the risk of bad blood :)
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Kai Sheia
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 07:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
firstly, heres a bit of a joke on the matter....
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20120625
very fitting, imo.
I don't understand why you are so hung up on joining a corp right off the bat. why not just play the game a little, see what YOU want and then see what fits what you want and feel you can offer?
|
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
273
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 07:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Generally speaking, you'll want to join a corp that doesn't have particularly specific requirements at first so that you can **** around and figure out all your crap. Drop that corp and find one that more specifically suits your needs later, when you have a good grasp of what's going on. |
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