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An proposal to make Covert Ops more challenging

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.02 21:12:00 - [1] - Quote I am not a fan of nerfs nor do I think there is anything about cloaking that should be nerfed. I have read a number of arguments for and against covert ops and they all boil down to this: we can see someone in local and after scanning and checking stations are pretty sure he is cloaked and we don't like it. Having lived in null I know the feeling: you see a neutral or red in local and you have no clue what they are up to - AFK or gathering detailed information on your operations and defenses. All the suggestions I have so far heard end up nerfing cloaking: putting it on a timer or using fuel being the most popular. Let us take a thoughtful approach to the matter: You have 4 empires and numerous pirate organizations in whose best interest it is to know if someone is skulking about. From a story line perspective it would make the most sense that detection methodology improved as opposed to suddenly ships needing fuel they didn't need before. Cloaking retains its typical functionality, but now the player must play the game with more advanced rules: they can be scanned down to a close approximation and if they are not paying attention, become uncloaked once the properly equipped ship warps to the area. How this would work: A specialized probe dedicated to scanning down the unique emission frequencies of cloaked ships is developed. This would be a Tech II item requiring extensive training given the overall sensitivity and difficulty of cloaking in general. The scanning does not de-cloak a ship. The scanning gives an approximate point the scanning ship can warp to - say within 20 KM of where the ship was detected by the probes. Once on grid, the scanning can be further narrowed down to determine the direction the ship is in. Since the UI already has lines introduced in an number of capacities, it is possible to essentially draw a line from the probing ship along the direction the cloaked ship is in (not to the ship, but through the general area where the ship is). This requires the probes to be active and scanning. While on grid where the probes scanned the cloaked ship down the de-cloaking range is doubled from 2.5km to 5km. It will also become plain to the probing ship if their target is moving by rescanning with the probes and noting any change in the directional line. Additionally, while Covert Ops Cloaking devices allow a ship to warp cloaked, they make is slightly easier (5%?) to scan the approximate location down. A ship that is moving as opposed to being stationary at the time the probes scan will decrease detection by a % based on overall movement speed. If the covert pilot is paying attention, they can avoid being de-cloaked by proximity detection by either warping off or changing direction of travel. A cloaked ship being probed will receive a 'ping' once their area is considered warp-able (maybe... maybe not but the probes will at least be visible to the cloaked ship if they run a direction scan). This could also be an opportunity for a new class of ship to be introduced based on the new Destroyer hulls: a Tech II Hunter Killer Destroyer (HKD for short). This ship would receive bonuses for covert ops scanning. The ships equipment also makes it possible to share co-ordinate data allowing a non-equipped ship to use the probe data to align in the directional line the cloaked ship may be on (line based from the HKD through the area the ship is in). Also, if two or more of the HKDs are on grid they can Effectively 'see' the cloaked ship enough vector in on its position while bumping the already boosted de-cloaking range from 5km to 10km. People can play the game the same old way, but if they fail to adapt to the new probes, they will inevitably lose ships. I also believe this method will make the game interesting by adding a new, challenging element for the hunters. Also, while they are at it, CCP can take the opportunity to fix the loading cloak all ships receive when jumping by removing the ability to de-cloak a loading player. This will also clear up some gates of certain 'clutter' further reducing load and system lag at some gates. No one should die because their ship was de-cloaked while their screen is loading - once the timer runs out or they move, the ball is in their court to survive. edit - thinking about it, it will be crucial for CCP to change the gate loading cloak players get. Otherwise you just gate camp with a new HKDs with probes out and auto-decloak anything that comes into the system.
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.02 21:57:00 - [2] - Quote That would be far simpler way and I don't disagree. But if Local does not get addressed (read:nerfed) by CCP then I would prefer a more dynamic approach to detecting cloaked ships that is not a ridiculous nerf to Cloaking overall. Some tool should be there, it should be darn difficult to use, however. Also, anyone, even a small gang, can easily evade being nailed by continued movement. Edit - nice jacket by the way. Edit#2 - actually, something like what I propose would be good to have even if Local as Free Intel was nerfed. I could see myself using this in a WH easily.
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.02 22:59:00 - [3] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Petrified wrote: Also, anyone, even a small gang, can easily evade being nailed by continued movement. Bubbles. And that's not the point I was making. Take a stroll through null-sec with a few of your friends in Assault Frigates. See if you can catch any ratters or miners doing their thing. Gate camps are always an issue with bubbles but most other instances of bubbles are mitigated by not warping gate/station to gate/station. But methinks roaming gangs of assault frigates finding targets in null would be easier without local ;) But I also suspect removing local would solve that issue - I should know, I roam with an Alt in low sec and null. I see your point there as it is - toss out the decloak range bonus ;)
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.03 03:11:00 - [4] - Quote Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote: And it started out so well. "I'm not a fan of nerfs" I am not, nor is this a direct nerf as Cloaking is unchanged. There is just a counter which at best is an indirect nerf. But knee jerk reactions such as your are not unexpected. ;) I am content if cloaking remains unchanged completely, but if there was a change, I would prefer something that was indirect such as this. I spend a lot of time cloaked, as an FYI
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.03 05:11:00 - [5] - Quote Sura Sadiva wrote: I've to admit, I always considerated AFK cloacking like something stupid. But lately reading all these threads I started to have fun, I fly in hound in some 0.0. system,leave it there cloacked and go to bed giggling thinkink to all those people barred in their station terrorized and whole systems and farms shutted down :) You're my kind of gal.
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.06 21:38:00 - [6] - Quote Lets get rid of local automatically displaying people. I am good with that. I just do not want to see my Buzzard nerfed with timing or fuel requirements some yahoos suggest. My main point is to suggest a way that avoid changing cloaking while making the other party satisfied but having to work towards their satisfaction. And... I would love to launch bombs while cloaked
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.02.06 21:39:00 - [7] - Quote Winthorp wrote: Add a 10-15 sec delay to local and you will see a much more vibrant nullsec. Sure there will be lots of carebear tears but they will learn to adapt. It would be simpler to make Low Sec and Null Local identical to Worm Hole Local - remove the auto-information completely.
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.04.11 22:15:00 - [8] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: Petrified wrote: I am not a fan of nerfs nor do I think there is anything about cloaking that should be nerfed. /thread A counter is not the same as a nerf. In retrospect, I do not think the decloak radius should be expanded from my original thread. Otherwise, I stand by my proposal still.
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.04.13 02:57:00 - [9] - Quote Substantia Nigra wrote: Still I read on. More fool me GÇª I don't really need to since you have fooled yourself. My intent is very straight forward: avoid nerfing a mechanic I enjoy flying, Cover Ops, while adding something new to the game: the ability to probe out the approximate location of a stealthed ship. It is not a click "I win against stealth". It does not nerf stealth by adding timers or fuel or other non-sense. This simply provides a counter to stealth. I am perfectly happy if things remain as they are since it benefits my play style.
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.04.13 03:31:00 - [10] - Quote DataRunner Attor wrote: Judging from the topic. "How to make covert ops harder" you have never flown a covert ops ship huh? How is it not hard enough where all cloaks gimp your ship, and any ship design for covert ops, in themselves are gimped, and if they are a combat vessel IE: Stealth bomber, then they can only really target one or two types of targets effectively. Check my kill (loss) boards. I've flown and lost them before (mostly when being half-asleep or on a bad connection or worse: lazy). If you stop making assumptions...
Petrified At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 5	Posted - 2013.04.13 03:54:00 - [11] - Quote DataRunner Attor wrote: Well then, you would know how hard it can be to be a covert ops ship.....Of course, that the assumption that you actually flown them with a goal in mind, and not just for the ***** and giggles. There are lots of things in EVE I do for giggles. I fly Covert Ops for "business" reasons as well as harassment.

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