!

Why share all your profits with investors?

Use you profits from to fund private operations, resulting in 100% profit for yu. You can then avoid all the SCAM claims.

If you can make billions why would you need/want to give them away?

My intentions with this are to use the accumulated wealth of multiple seperate people to make myself a little bit of money, while making it worthwhile for others to give me the capital required. It allows me to make much more money for myself than I would when I would do this all with my own capital.

The capital I have myself is tied up in other activities, such as WH Gas reactions and trading. That's why I want to look at the option of setting up an IPO.

Unless you are planning to fully collateralize the IPO value. This is for all intents and purposes a scam.



No. For all anyone here knows your plan is to build trust with a bond, and then move into an IPO where you will bag the money.

Unless every single share is fully collateralize. Your credibility, legitimacy, value and trust is at 0

These are my comments :D

Exactly how much experience in Production do you have?

An IPO from someone who has been doing it for years, through different patches & changes etc. is perfectly plausable.

I have experience through the years, though I have been hopping on and off for months on end due to school or work. However, my current schedule allows for longer periods of time in which I can play. Through the years I have been in production and wormhole activities, and I have a certain love for spreadsheets which is... beyond words.

I believe that combining my knowledge of the market with these experiences will make this IPO work.

I have been contacted by Savtrader for an audit. He's been quite detailed in what he wants to do, but I had to decline (Iike I am doing with everyone else) due to me preparing for moving home overseas. I suggested to start an IPO discussion to see if it can be ironed out without excessive arguments. I may eventually (if asked) do a quick check just to see if he got the characters manufacturing skills and the BPOs but that's all I can do before wrapping up my netbook (which is the thingie where my auditing programs are located).

I love Saveritrader! He's awesome! His bond is super sweet! There's nothing wrong with trying to build a reputation on MD! How else can you actually get funding for a large IPO? And besides, capitalism isn't about making money, it's abou COMMUNITY and FEELINGS and EMOTIONS!

An Existing production operation would already have, POS, multiple profitable BPO's etc.... Your OP says you need to buy it all with IPO ISK..................So, sorry if i do-not believe you & what you say about your experience. Its one thing making ammo in a station, its quite another running a pos and having to pay interest.

You make it sound like running a profitable manufacturing op is difficult. With a spreadsheet, a basic working knowledge of the game mechanics, and the tens of tools available within the community, it is rather straight forward.

..Don't most production bonds/IPOs have a secure third party lock down the BPOs in the manufacturing corp and allow the investee to produce from them?

Saveritrader, would you be willing to go forward with this IPO utilizing this traditional fashion? Why/why not?

Stuff

I liked your post, not necessarily because it is true. But because it shows what in Eve is a healthy dose of paranoia

@Saveritrader
I see a new business opportunity here for you, make Candy pay you for not smearing her reputation in MD

. If I am wrong, I apologie to Sav and to Claire. At any rate, this wild paranoia exercises my ability to keep my isk in my wallet.

I see a new business opportunity here for you, make Candy pay you for not smearing her reputation in MD

While collateral is a massive security instrument, those possessing it are merely in need of liquidity but not financial support. They might as well dump the stuff and start the venture.

Well, that's kinda the point, if it is so easy, Wheres the existing Pos, BPO's and slot/isk/hour calculations? no-where in the OP he mentions how many slots, and a minimum isk/per slot he is going to go for. Does his calc's include fuel costs for e.g. (Admittedly the calc for fuel cost became alot easier when fuel blocks came about.)

The buzzword "spreadsheet" has been mentioned alot, as well, why bother with a spreadsheet with all those Tools available? ANY production type worth his salt knows the programmes and uses them. Althouigh a spreadsheet does the job, someone "in the know" would be aware of them at the least.

I'd much rather say these things here than spoil his actual IPO, call me negative or w/e. if its not me, it'll be several others.

Its a bit like me going out and buying a new Drag Race car, all it does is go in a straight line right?

..Don't most production bonds/IPOs have a secure third party lock down the BPOs in the manufacturing corp and allow the investee to produce from them?

Saveritrader, would you be willing to go forward with this IPO utilizing this traditional fashion? Why/why not?

..Thanks Candy.

So Saveritrader, how do you like that idea? Instead of leveraging your profitable name garnered from the apparent success from your first bond, why not *gasp* start a bit smaller and procure the BPOs with own funds?

TL, Did read

All of this post is pure speculation. If I am wrong, I apologie to Sav and to Claire. At any rate, this wild paranoia exercises my ability to keep my isk in my wallet.

(but small) step forwards. following a smaller step, to be followed by a slightly larger step followed by a big step. Followed by a leap over the horizon never to be seen again (well posing as Saveritrader anyhow)

Fixed

in his OP, he is using the IPO isk to actually buy the BPOs........

Yes but you did not have a convo in game detailing more stuff of what's been said in the OP.

I may eventually (if asked) do a quick check just to see if he got the characters manufacturing skills and the BPOs.

- Intentions -
I intend to purchase 5b worth of researched BPO's, and build modules and ships that have shown great promise in my trading. I will have to purchase a moon near jita, costing another 300-600m. Also, I'll need to buy a POS, which is another 1.3b ISK including fuel. The remainder will go into minerals for the production itself, enough to build several modules for several weeks.

Now as for this thread, I love all the angles you are all playing at, and I am indeed toying around with this idea, it is in no way certain I will start this up. I do get more ideas on how not just the IPO should work, and for that I thank you all!

Must have been some conversation, talking about 2 different things in this here thread. I realise you may/may not have spoken to the guy, but that is irrelevant. All we know is what is written here from the OP, and thats what most of us have based our comments on.

..Sav and Claire - What an awful lot of words that mean absolutely nothing. I really like how within all those words you didn't answer any useful question in detail, even accidentally!

My favorite part is when Sav says "I know having the BPOs as collateral would make this bond secure, but even so, my plan is to use Isk from the IPO to buy BPOs". Well that's just dandy Sav.

And now I think we all have our answers. Claire is without a doubt SencneS, and Sav is Reithe. Sorry about mixing two different MD memes.

TL;DR version:

Anyone reading this thread, and anyone who reads the actual official IPO thread (that is if Sav and Claire can do a good job with damage control from this thread) do not invest in this IPO. Do not send any Isk to Sav, and do not trust Claire.

In my book this is a very pitiful scam attempt. Even with all of the charitable work you do in between making trillions of ISK in your C6 Claire.

"The TL;DR was TL;DR". Fine.

Heres the TTL;DR,WTL;DR version:

I believe this is a scam. I advise you to not invest in this IPO or give any money to Saveitrader or trust Claire Coffee. You have been warned.

..Sav and Claire - What an awful lot of words that mean absolutely nothing. I really like how within all those words you didn't answer any useful question in detail, even accidentally!

My favorite part is when Sav says "I know having the BPOs as collateral would make this bond secure, but even so, my plan is to use Isk from the IPO to buy BPOs". Well that's just dandy Sav.

And now I think we all have our answers. Claire is without a doubt SencneS, and Sav is Reithe. Sorry about mixing two different MD memes.

TL;DR version:

Anyone reading this thread, and anyone who reads the actual official IPO thread (that is if Sav and Claire can do a good job with damage control from this thread) do not invest in this IPO. Do not send any Isk to Sav, and do not trust Claire.

In my book this is a very pitiful scam attempt. Even with all of the charitable work you do in between making trillions of ISK in your C6 Claire.

"The TL;DR was TL;DR". Fine.

Heres the TTL;DR,WTL;DR version:

I believe this is a scam. I advise you to not invest in this IPO or give any money to Saveitrader or trust Claire Coffee. You have been warned.

Just a small thing of note: Your TL;DR is longer than your normal version.

I actually don't know how to respond to this... I can hardly believe how you think I am someone who I am not. I would gladly talk to you on teamspeak or any other form of actual communication, because it is just bollocks to say I, or Claire, are people we aren't.

...what kind of meaning do YOU present? Community protection against possible scam according to your assumption? Well, okay, what does it have to do with this discussion? More to that, what does it have to do with me?...

It's funny how civilized "Presumption of Innocence" is called white-knighting here.

Hm, it's a shame that a normal topic in which I tried to ask the MD people for some advice first turned into a thread in which I'm called out to be a scammer, people that have invested in me are called out scammers.

It looks like you just wont be happy until you get unsecured ISK from MD. I wonder why that is??

..Point of interest.

Last night I Eve-Mailed shar'ra matcevsovski and asked him if Sav had sent the APIs that he requested.

shar'ra replied and said that Sav did send his API.

shar'ra has stated that the API is no longer valid at the time of this writing.

Strange thing for Sav to do, cancel his API during an active bond.

Even stranger that Claire, an "investor" with the keys, has not brought this piece of info up, questioning Sav as to why he caned those APIs, denying him to further acces while his ISK is still at risk. I wonder why that is?

Almost like Sav and Claire are working together. And they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids!

this Isn't even MD's final form

op got what thing right, even using a 3rd party its still just an eve player, you can sperg all you want about how your trustworthy but thats all rubbish, look at that VV white knighting these jokers. & getting butthurt when called out about it lol. im amazed you got isk in the first place (cash out now)

You make it sound like running a profitable manufacturing op is difficult. With a spreadsheet, a basic working knowledge of the game mechanics, and the tens of tools available within the community, it is rather straight forward.

However, that being said, it is a shame that he doesn't already have the BPOs in stock. Perhaps there is a way to provide a bit more security to this IPO. For instance, I know in the past that 3rd parties have offered to lock down BPOs. Perhaps if the 3rd party was given the ISK, had an alt in the CEO seat, bought the BPOs via contract and locked them down. Would this alleviate some fears of the prospective investor? The BPOs wouldn't cover the cost of the entire IPO, but it is at least something.

Why do you need a POS?
Why do you intend to buy researched BPOs when you're gonna get a POS anyway?
Will you mostly be producing t1 stuff or t2?
If t2, why researched BPOs at all?
Do you intend to strike deals with Corps for constant supply on some items or will you only sell on the market?
Will you only sell in Jita/the big trade hubs, or will you also sell in mission hubs/lowsec/nullsec?
What will you do with the POS in times of war?

- I will be mostly producing T1, yet T2 is something I will be working towards

- I will also be providing the ships for my alliance. For the rest I will sell it on the market as it currently stands.

- In times of war the POS will be without any valuables and loaded with guns! If it goes down, the valuable stuff will be sitting in the station where I will resume production, just a bit slower.

..I did get the mail that Sav posted about. It looks like I am wrong about the API in question. I still hold firm on all of my other speculations and statements.

That's bollocks, the API is still up to date and is set to non-expire. Ask shar'ra to forward you the mail and check for yourself.

* I also forwarded you the same mail. As you don't trust me, feel free to compare it with shar'ra and check the api for yourself.

From: shar'ra matcevsovski
To: Syds Sinclair
[quote]ID: XXXXXXXX
vCode: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

however I did not have the oprtunity to check them, yet (im at home on max 5. days a month) and its way to much hassle to check it via my cellphone.

..T2 invention/production is risky. Is this a T1 production IPO or a T2 invention/production IPO?

How much of a discount are you going to be giving you alliance? How will that affect shareholder profits?

A pilot or group of pilots that want your POS dead will get it dead. There goes 1-2b of shareholder ISK. Why wouldn't you simply take the POS down and then put it back up after the war deck?

So, it's that time of the year, when you resub, create the upteenth "Pepridge" alt and make MD look like CAOD or GD.

Before I deal with you like I have done with the Pepridges of the past years, I'd like to point out that:

1) I don't know nor particularly care about the OP, he's one of the 2-3 guys who daily contact me about investing in them, asking for audits and whatever.

2) I don't have the time neither to audit him nor to invest in him (and in anyone else) due to my known RL current stuff. The only point where I am not totally "neutral" is that I feel for him going in the slaugtherhouse and not to be scrutinized but to be trolled = useless = I hoped other guys would have posted. A Bad Bobby or similar other informed player would have done wonders. Because in my never ending pledge to help people improve themselves, those informed players can teach others a LOT. And no, I am not telling about teaching them to scam, but how to deal with situations and how to be "ready" to deal with all forms of inquires.

3) This is a special kind of "audit" I have put him in: the test of MD vs an IPO. If he does not get mad in the least secured kind of public investment (ISK request upfront, possibly share rewards after months) then he'll be at least prepared for the next round.

4) Your (nor a portion of Syd) posts are not useful, because the real MD "investigators" are guys like Estel Arador and MMe Pinkerton / Vera / I keep forgetting the names (:pulls hairs:). The former is possibly the guy who most posted against me at every possible opportunity, but he *researched* his stuff first, he made logic rebuttals, he did some detective work. I'd have given him a 80 / 100 quality. MMe is even better, because he really does an awesome data drilling job while posting better and more constructively than me, if there was an auditor to take my place I'd vote him for sure.

Syd seems still at the "early days", a bit more work on getting factual evidence (the nastiest one to slam in a pretend-investor face, believe me!) and s/he is set.
Pepridge instead, is good for "giggles" for those who like his humor but not *useful* to an investment. And as he seem to never change, evidently he does not want to "evolve" into either an investor or a value MD partecipant.

Stop talking BS, you said you spoke to the OP, the white knighted when the candy gimmick account called you out on it.

of the 2-3 conversations? you are not serious, surely you can remember who is who? are you kidding me? lmao please do share the other 2-3 guys convo's.

you were in on it, no doubt about it. your "audit" is an MD enabler.

we have argued before about this exact thing, like when you audited a few scams (enabling them) a few years back.

you don't have time to audit, but you have the time to write this wall of text. lol, Audit, its p hard to punch API keys into any number of softwares available, but no, keep your time for writing, Stupid candlestick threads where "double Shoulders" & other "words" to make you seem smarter than you are, & writing butthurt rebuttals (this wall of text is a butthurt rebuttal)

Every game I play for some reason people start trusting me. Then they share things with me that don't want to necessarily tell to everybody. In this case the OP told me basically what's posted here plus a little detail that makes his proposal a bit more valuable. I did not want to talk about the detail because some idiot would easily mistake it for endorsement.
Don't be that idiot.

try again.

for someone so "thorough" and mess up major details, only leads to one thing.

You thought OP had BPO's & were ready to check them in the future, when his OP says he is buying researched prints.

drivel? if want to read that, please read your candlestick thread.

try again.

for someone so "thorough" and mess up major details, only leads to one thing.

You thought OP had BPO's & were ready to check them in the future, when his OP says he is buying researched prints.

drivel? if want to read that, please read your candlestick thread.

We had a discussion about his lack of BPOs and how ideally these IPOs are done by locking BPOs at a 3rd party.
The OP can confirm this point.

The rest - of course - you throw statements without having been there but that's not unexpected off yours.

he got the characters manufacturing skills and the BPOs

read it how you want.

op is your alt for all we know, OP cannot confirm anything.

when you put yourself in the public spotlight and expect ppl to trust you as a 3rd party, you shouldn't post lies, or rush your posts, ppl are excpecting the truth from so-called 3rd parties, not a bunch of rubbish when you get called out.

chribba/grendall is a good one to follow, i suggest getting posting lessons from them.

I did not tell any lie nor rush anything.
What the investees tell me is their only choice to make it publicly detailed or not. Nor I am going to detail how / if / when they had / have / will have BPOs unless they allow me to, all those informations can be used against them by competitors.

well, your post, mislead more than just me (i didn;t call you out on it originally, did I), when read in conjunction with the OP there is an obvious mistake. He didn't have a pos/BPO/characters, nor any idea how to manufacture , from the read of the OP & the subsequent responses, regardless of how confident & detailed your conversation was.

Your post implies he does, thus putting you in the precarious position, that you are in now, defending accusations of being in leagues with OP.

you posted without reading the offer.

He posted the offer after I told him to, so I am quite aware of what he wants to do. Now try running some imagination and figure out how somebody could be checked for BPOs (existance, research done so it's not a total fake etc) even without having them in his "immediate ownership". I won't say more, because that'd really go against his privacy.

we don't need to check for BPO's

its in his OP, his business plan is to buy BPO's, not be checked for them, no-where in the OP he mentions an existing production line. which is again, what only you (not OP) are inplying.

I LIED!
I can't skip this thread :(

While Jerry is being a fail alt of Syds who tends to lose badly fit Ravens while being a null-sec pet running around pointing fingers at anyone possessing better ideas and income than his own I declare invalidity of their points further on.

I shall seal this statement with RECTANGULAR *hint-hint* ribbon on their foreheads shall I meet them in person, which I doubt will ever happen, therefore you'll have to take my reputable word for that.


/thread? :-)

I LIED!
I can't skip this thread :(

While Jerry is being a fail alt of Syds who tends to lose badly fit Ravens while being a null-sec pet running around pointing fingers at anyone possessing better ideas and income than his own I declare invalidity of his points further on.

I shall seal this statement with RECTANGULAR *hint-hint* ribbon on his foreheads shall I meet him in person, which I doubt will ever happen, therefore you'll have to take my "reputable" word for that.


/thread? :-)

VV, Pepridge is doing what he has set out to do: make ridiculous statements and then spend all effort required to defend those ridiculous statements.....by saying more ridiculous statements.

..Jerry.

Don't take the portion about you in my post as an insult. I like what you do. Your antagonistic just for its own sake. Problem is, everyone knows it and for the most part disregards your posts. I just think it doesn't serve any purpose other then to give you and a few other readers some amusement. Which is cool if that's your thing.

interesting, did you look up the old cosmoray threads? where MD "audited" him & he went on to scam right? no-one seems to care now, coz the MD of then has quit only a few left.

interesting, did you look up the old cosmoray threads? where MD "audited" him & he went on to scam right? no-one seems to care now, coz the MD of then has quit only a few left.

..My small ammount of time in nulsec on this pilot doesn't mean much to this topic of conversation.

But I will tell you what means much: you taking time out of your day to find tidbits about me. I'm assuming you we're looking for scams or scam attempts. Hell, I bet you would have been happy to find serious accusation thrown at me. But alas, all of your snooping only yielded a few silly Raven fits I lost in nulsec. Sorry Claire.

And another thing that matters. Saveritrader has publicly stated that any future production IPO's will be fully secured.

Chalk one up for the good guys! Lets look at the scoreboard, shall we?

Watchdogs - 1
Shills - 0

VV, Pepridge is doing what he has set out to do: make ridiculous statements and then spend all effort required to defend those ridiculous statements.....by saying more ridiculous statements.

VV, I think you and a majority of MD know what you are and what you stand for.

About security requirement I told Sav before he even created this thread and therefore much before you even opened your mouth.

In Sav's OP he states there will be no security. He makes the same statement a few posts later.

So eh though you told him "before he even created this thread," it wasn't until I, and other posters, opened our mouths that he changed his mind.

Me - 1
Shill - 0

..Oh I see, yeah the Jerry and VV thing should have been handled in its own thread.

But ignoring that, it looks like this bread accomplished exactly what you wanted it to: ironing out a solid IPO plan. So awesome, good job.

I'd like to see this venture launched. If I were you, I'd start a some conversations with Grendel, Chib, and maybe VV so see what they can do as far as locking the BPO's down.

..Oh I see, yeah the Jerry and VV thing should have been handled in its own thread.

Yeah I am more talking about Jerry and VV's back and forth about investigations and blaming eachother. I do have to say that in the conversation with VV, it has been brought up that the BPOs should be locked by a 3rd party. The fact that jerry thinks I'm an alt of VV, that I can confirm is not the case.

Make it however you want to believe me, but honestly... Paranoia has gone a bit too far with some.

I also don't know where jerry got the idea that I can't manufacture anything from, because stating as my posts I do not need to put out an eveboard link because this is not an IPO.

no, you didn't, you may have had a discussion about some BPO's but thats not public record is it?



read it how you want.

op is your alt for all we know, OP cannot confirm anything.

It's the last line that I'm getting at.

It's the last line that I'm getting at.

..I didn't call the person good or bad. I called the iPO plan bad.

Not on assumption. My claims were based in facts.

On the topic of people.

You Claire seem like a cool person. You post a lot and create content. Your posts are good reads.
As for Saveritrader, he's seems like a cool dude also. Well formed posts and polite.

I wouldn't have a problem with flying with either of you, or discussing different areas of conversation.
I don't think either of you are bad people.

The IPO, however. Your adamant defense of Sav, however.
That I don't care for.

@Jerry: I actually like the word Shill. It's quite lovely. Just not my case as I'm not THAT much emotional, but I'm definitely supportive while there are many troll-ponnies like you around. Oh and troll-pony is a lovely word too.

P.S.: I apologize to VV and Sav actually, cause it was my suggestion to make a thread here. Should have known what was to come

nothing personal either claire, call me what u want, just dont call me late for dinner!

nothing personal either claire, call me what u want, just dont call me late for dinner!

Of course... Once I dump bodies from previous fondue-party *shifting eyes from side to side*

haha pretty funny guy here

>_>

<_<

What Bodies?

Well, I tried to poke those with a stick and none of them... oh wait!!!... one is moving... BRB!

EDIT: now... what was I saying? Ah, yes.. I'm an awesome chef by the way.