But can they retain that many accounts? SWTOR is not FtP because they started out with huge numbers of players trying it out. Now they ar down to about 500K accounts.

So the real questions is whether or not DUST can survive the test of fickle gamers.

But can they retain that many accounts? SWTOR is now FTP because they started out with huge numbers of players trying it out who later dropped their subs. Now they are down to about 500K accounts and a handful of servers.

So the real question is whether or not DUST can survive the test of fickle gamers.

Oh, and FIRST !!

Sure would be a shame if DUST had to go F2P.

I'm sure once they realise that many EVE players are itching for the chance to screw them over that many of those players will rage-quit in favour of something more themeparky.

But can they retain that many accounts?

It looks like such a phenomenally boring game. World of Darkness sounds like it has real potential if they'd ever put any effort into it. In a world populated by dozens of new shooters every year (that haven't been in development for a decade), Dust is a dud.

Sparklely gay vampires is that way---->

Biomass yourself, how Kristen Steward (the one who's facial expression is permanently set to "disgusted/pooping") and Robert Patterson (the perma fried/constipated one) should do IRL...

No worries, the closed beta vets have been able to drive the bulk of them away by pubstomping in unbeatable gear, accuracy and knowledge.

Contrary to popular belief in your generation, vampires predate Kristen Stewart's unforunate entry into the fold. But since that knowledge is apparently beyond you, I suggest you biomass yourself.

Yes, I knew that, but if CCP wanted to make money from a vampire MMO. That should've been done during the sparkly gay vampire craze swept retards. Not several years and a lot of money thrown into development later. And they still don't have anything near a beta as it's been put onto the back burner and will more then likely be dropped...

Sure would be a shame if DUST had to go F2P.

But it's not fair to label someone who might be interested in such a game as being a fan of Kristen Stewart. Or, for that matter, Stephenie Meyer's abominable entry into the annals of English literature. It would be terrible if we let this recent generation of wretched, mindless, 'I'm 14 and I want to sleep with a 150 year old vampire' crazed teenagers ruin centuries of solid vampire lore.

It already is F2P...

Sarcasm is such a delicate artform.

Just wait until the next call of copy paste comes out.

1.182 million DUST accounts already...

There has to be a way to make ISK off of them... wouldn't you think?

If CCP can snag an average of three to five dollars a month (At current player levels. Less as the base increases) from these guys through mt, then Dust will quickly become their primary source of income and will get the bulk of development time.

That is what EVE players need to be worried about.

Mr Epeen

Tie them into sov mechanics.

If there really are that many Dust mercs and those numbers hold, they're going to need more things to do than fight for FW disputes.

As to the microtransactions, there is gear you can get by purchasing it with ISK but the caveat is that they have high skill requirements. The gear you can get through microtransactions is of equal power but has little to no skill requirements. Then there are other things like SP gain boosters, the ability to use comms for a set amount of time (3, 7 and 30 days), as well as other things of that nature. I'm thinking the SP boosters and comms are the hot ticket items.

the ability to use comms for a set amount of time (3, 7 and 30 days)...

DUST has to pay to use voice comms?!

You hit the nail on the head there, Mr Epeen.
Everything else that people are talking about DUST is just a smoke and mirrors.
The real bottom line is the very real danger of what you have mentioned, happening.
Sony Network likes F2P as long as there is plenty of MT content.
It has to happen.

o7

DUST has to pay to use voice comms?!

then Dust will quickly become their primary source of income and will get the bulk of development time. Mr Epeen

Sure would be a shame if DUST had to go F2P.

But can they retain that many accounts? SWTOR is now FTP because they started out with huge numbers of players trying it out who later dropped their subs. Now they are down to about 500K accounts and a handful of servers.

So the real question is whether or not DUST can survive the test of fickle gamers.

Oh, and FIRST !!

WTF? ToR didn't start out free to play.

DUST is built as a FREE to play game.

Fickle gamers?
Sinse when have gamers ever been fickle about playing free ****? This isn't a PC themepark MMO where the trend is to play for a month or two and then move on to the next peice of **** themepark doppleganger.

It's a FREE to play shooter an a console owned by millions of people.


Some people in the PC gaming community can't seem to wrap thier brains around this. This is real simple guys.
THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE PLAYING GAMES ON CONSOLES THEN PC. It's quit possible that there are more people playing games on the PS3 then PC for crying out loud.

MMO's are possibly a big reason that PC gaming die almost entirely. It was only a few years ago that even PC game developers were worried about the decline in the number of people playing games on the PC. The possibility of gaming on the PC coming to an end was a very real thing not very long ago.

Sony was not shy about pointing out that, even while still under a subscription model, DCUO was doing considerably better than the PC version. I believe Sony has even said that as a free to play MMO the console still has more people playing it then the PC.

MW3 and Skyrim accounted for over 50% of all PC games sold, combined, in the month they released, and there's still more people playing BOTH of those games on consoles than on PC; by a rather wide margin.

And I'll take this bet with anyone.
Final Fantasy 14 is going to have more people playing on consoles then on the PC when it releases soon.



I'm personally not really feeling Dust that much. They need to start looking at the controls and try to bring them more in line with CoD and Halo. It's not a bad game though.

Running a free to play game has more to do with the structure of the cash shop, then whether or not the game is "good" enough to play. CCP has done a very good job so far with the cash shop in Dust. Things are worth buying, but don't give you real edge over people that don't use it.

At this point, CCP is probably going to have to do something incredibly braindead stupid to screw up.


Eventually the two games will be tied into the same market.
I don't think the real question is, "can WE make money off of Dust", we will, but can dust players make money off of us?
Dust has a long way to go before it's more than "just a shooter" connected to EVE.

I think DUST players will eventually be able to participate in industry and PI resource gathering themselves... to be sold to other DUST players directly or to be sold to EvE players via the market. That will be their primary interaction with EvE economically, and I rather expect PI in both games will be developed further.

So yeah, EvE players that do PI may very well find themselves competing with DUST players for turf. It could even end up more lucurative for an EvE player to make most of their PI money providing transport services to more lucurative markets for DUST players. Or we could even see market capabilities available on the planets themselves (which only makes sense really).

Should be interesting.

Has there ever been a FPS game that has lasted more than 1 year, with any individual iteration?
Yes, there are oodles of FPS franchises that last a decade, but that is over 4 or 5 releases of the game.

The 2 key questions are:
1. how good this Dust will be retaining its players (not very good if you consider the industry track record)
2. how many people will try it in the first place. (there is a huge potential market of FPS players to work with)

Halo 4, one of the most successful franchises every, came out around Christmas, and sold around 4 million copies.
I think the question is how many of those Halo 4 players still pick up their 360's and play it on a very regular basis, 2 months later, 4 months later, 12 months later.

I strongly doubt Dust will have the staying power of Halo as a one-off iteration, or franchise.
I certainly hope Dust does not last, otherwise the predictions of Eve being treated as the red-headed step-child may happen.

I figure once the griefers figure out how to exploit the Dust mechanics to ruin gameplay for others, we will see a radical drop in participation for that game. But perhaps CCP has learned from the results in Eve, and will curtail such antics within Dust.

So, I haven't read much into DUST despite trying it a little in the CB but can you call an Orbital Bombardment on your positions? I mean, if a Dust player is also an EVE player providing support from his nearby computer, can he grief his own team? If so, I predict a lot of rage over that.

At this point, CCP is probably going to have to do something incredibly braindead stupid to screw up.

Actually... yah that's possible. They're introducing friendly fire soon for corp matches and contracts mercenary work. There will be rage but that's going to be an allowed form of griefing... like a saboteur or corp thief is in eve. Will be interesting.

..., the core of its gameplay, it just looks kind of bland. The environments are really uninteresting, the gunplay doesn't seem very good....

glad to hear it - friendly fire disabled is anti-EVE

And your type is precisely the type that CCP should ban from Dust.
I am no fan of Dust, as it will take away from Eve if Dust is successful.
But I would hate it more if it were to fail because your type ruins the game.

Actually... yah that's possible. They're introducing friendly fire soon for corp matches and contracts mercenary work. There will be rage but that's going to be an allowed form of griefing... like a saboteur or corp thief is in eve. Will be interesting.

Regardless of his earlier positions on other matters, friendly fire disabled in a FPS is always bad. It destroy the sense of immersion.

And your type is precisely the type that CCP should ban from Dust.
I am no fan of Dust, as it will take away from Eve if Dust is successful.
But I would hate it more if it were to fail because your type ruins the game.

1.182 million DUST accounts already...

There has to be a way to make ISK off of them... wouldn't you think?

logged into some awesome dust map where you and the enemy spawn randomly around each other in a base with no rhyme or reason shooting each other except with my low SP all I could use was a gun with no sights or scope and it took me 3 seconds to turn around

i mean you're supposed to be some sort of super space soldier but when you start playing you move around like a fat sack of crap with guns that aim worse then modern equivalents. I assume this gets better once you start spending da aurum, but still - dang.

Sarcasm is such a delicate artform.

And your type is precisely the type that CCP should ban from Dust.
I am no fan of Dust, as it will take away from Eve if Dust is successful.
But I would hate it more if it were to fail because your type ruins the game.

And your type is precisely the type that CCP should ban from Dust.
I am no fan of Dust, as it will take away from Eve if Dust is successful.
But I would hate it more if it were to fail because your type ruins the game.

It's anti-EVE and anti-skill. In EVE you can't just take your bomber fleet and bomb the hell out of your tackle knowing the enemy will die and your allies won't. It adds balance, dimension and skill to using a bomber fleet knowing you could actually kill your own fleet instantly if bombing carelessly. Contrast that with the DUST closed beta (which I played) where the people dominating the killboard were using milita aircraft with infinite AoE rockets to bombard the battlefield with little regard if their rockets landed right on their teammates' heads as long as the enemy was within proximity of the blast. Friendly fire is the diffence between tactical decisions being made and "spray and praying" wildly into a crowd of your teammates hoping to rack up kill points.

Not to be a naysayer, but ask yourself one question:

DUST, or Call of Duty?

Not to be a naysayer, but ask yourself one question:

DUST, or Call of Duty?

This. I feel that I'm not EVE type enough, but shooting your teammates for the hell of it aka random awox (or due to being an infiltrator or whatnot) isn't what I first think of when presented to no friendly fire rule, instead I think of indiscriminate use of AoE stuff which is quite potent in FPS oftentimes unless balanced by friendly fire potential (other factors and certain circumstances that can influence that aside).

From my own experience with multiplayer FPS, someone playing FFA in a team match is something that happens once on a blue moon. But being killed by a teammate who fling grenades or full autos around despite enemies coming into melee with allies is something I had to face quite often.

Of course this observation is based on games that have no bigger picture past a single game, but I don't see infiltrators "awoxing" people during important battle to be a problem more than similar type in EVE. This can happen, but infiltrated toons are usually too valuable to be used like that and I don't see people RQ'ing over abundand usage of that technique.

Actually... yah that's possible. They're introducing friendly fire soon for corp matches and contracts mercenary work. There will be rage but that's going to be an allowed form of griefing... like a saboteur or corp thief is in eve. Will be interesting.

Brooms ftw

There are however differing mindsets in an FPS vs a game like EVE... people LOVE shooting their own guys in FPSs. Quite often because there's no significant penalty to doing so. A game like EVE is more easily able to present consequences to such actions that don't destroy one's ability to play the game effectively entirely.

Cod, but only because of the control.


I think this is something CCP really needs to get on the ball with. Cod and halo are good because of the fluidity of the controls.

Not really thanks to wardec evasion. The only real consequence is that of reputation as a traitor, which applies to both games.

1.182 million DUST accounts already...

There has to be a way to make ISK off of them... wouldn't you think?

Not to be a naysayer, but ask yourself one question:

DUST, or Call of Duty?

"non-consensual PVP" = 'drive them out of the game'
Kelduum has raised you well

You want to have this discussion? Don't bring it to other topics. But yes, to the extent you want to bring it, being able to attack whoever you want without consequence, that falls under that particular extreme. Encouraging changing a system in a way that only encourages griefing individuals is exactly that. Its a system that needs adjustments, not a sledge hammer.

You do realize, that free is the reason so many people signed up right?

Call us in six months, and then find out how many "Active" accounts there are....

Damn guys... let me put this on ice right now. Public matches where people are just thrown into a game or lobby together randomly will have friendly fire turned off. That's how it should be. I actually wouldn't mind if friendly fire was on in a public game, just as long as you had the option of booting someone from the match who was teamkilling you. That's how it is in every other FPS game and there's a good damn reason for it. As it is, turning friendly fire off for pub matches is fine.

Corp battles and merc contracts will have friendly fire turned on... so yah... make sure you know who your friends are. That's also fine because yah, it's still New Eden and s*** still happens.

We've been talking about this at length in the DUST forums and I'm pretty sure most people are on the same page. There's no mining in an FPS game... the only carebears there are refugees from high sec mining corps in eve... trust me DUST is going to be plenty bloody.

Yep, yep.

However I will say considering the non-permanent nature of the equipment you need to continually buy I would say industry in some form or another is fairly inevitable.

Lets face it, it takes all types.

I don't know... I would bet not. If DUST mercs can "make" their gear, that crafting system won't look ANYTHING like eve's. Maybe when you control districts you have weapons manufacturers building certain things in them.... but it better be hands off. Own district: collect tank turrets (& bacon). FPS gamers are like EvE PvPers if they had shorter attention spans and no alts. You're not going to get a robust and complex industry going... it would be a big turn off. I'm sure they'll outsource most of it to EvE... at least the hard parts. imho anyway...

Has there ever been a FPS game that has lasted more than 1 year, with any individual iteration?
Yes, there are oodles of FPS franchises that last a decade, but that is over 4 or 5 releases of the game.

It is entirely possible that is what they will do, and it would prove an excellent dynamic between the games... but I try to keep in mind two things.

1: Just because an option is made available in a game doesn't mean the majority of players have to use it to justify it, nor will its presence prove detrimental to the rest of the player base.

2: Never stereotype a group of people... they have a way of proving you wrong more often than not.

1.182 million DUST accounts already...

There has to be a way to make ISK off of them... wouldn't you think?

its a F2P game and you want to use the number of accounts as success indicator?

Well, games like CS and TF2 still pull a quite decent player count, peaking respectively as the 3rd and 5th most played game on steam today. This in spite of being 13 and 6 years old. While this is only two games, I'm fairly sure out there, a fair amount oldish FPS games are still being played actively.

Well, games like CS and TF2 still pull a quite decent player count, peaking respectively as the 3rd and 5th most played game on steam today. This in spite of being 13 and 6 years old. While this is only two games, I'm fairly sure out there, a fair amount oldish FPS games are still being played actively.

Halo 3. Its server population is often still higher than Reach and Halo 4, and that game is old as ****.

Let's see, one is free and the other isn't.. I think I know the answer to this one..

Fair point...


Advertisers might disagree with you. You target a demographic and you'll find that while there are exceptions, you can usually get it right for 90%+ of the sample.

I think you're reading something into what you quoted there, that isn't actually there. Did I say success? I said there's well over a million accounts. That's just a factual statement. Those players make isk (also a fact), and I implied a question to the eve community "how do we get that ISK?".

So I guess to answer your question I would answer "an 'indicator' is exactly what that number is..."