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Valcoria
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Posted - 2005.07.15 05:45:00 -
[1]
Note that either are not a high priority but mainly for more choices of ships to fly. I am using the cold war plot behind the design of each of these. They are more basic ideas that hard stats.
First off the destroyers. You can view these either as tier 2 or a second race/ cold war specialized tier 1. With the tension growing because of the cold war each race is either pushing proven technology it is good at or building platforms to better counter a strength or weakness in the enemy. All ships will be new models and not just same ships with differant stats.
Gallente Destroyer
For them I am going with drones. So much so that the rest of the ship is rather weak for a dest because of it. The 25% ROF nerf is gone as is all the guns. Gun setup is either that of the Incursus with 3 guns or the Tristan with 2 guns 1 launcher. High slots I was thinking of say 4. Leaves one utility slot like the Tristan. No bonus to either gun or missiles. So think like either of those frigs in firepower but just without the bonuses. Mids and lows the same as the Catalyst but with grid and cpu of Incursus. Armor and shields still destroyer like, aka paper thin. Now the fun part. Facing the threat of defending against an attack from the Caldari to retake their former world the Gallente have turned to the drones that help stop the them before. Bonus is +1 drone controled per lvl and 5% light thermal drone damage. Thermal is the racial damage for the Gallente so along with drones this ship will set out to counter the Caldari frigs. Weakness is one smart bomb can turn this ship into a crappy frig and no bonus to the weapons that are left. With skills this destroyer will be able to take down tech 1 frigs fast but also be taken out fast itself.
Caldari Dest
Like the Gallente the Caldari will go with a proven winner. Missiles. Ship keeps the 25% nerf to ROF but now it is applied to launchers. Slot layout stays the same but one high is lost and ship gets 7 launcher points. Ship will be able to fit 7 standards but will have a hard time fitting much else without some decent skills. Bonuses are now dual missile. 5% kinetic missile damage and 5% decrease factor of signature radius for light per level. Again Kinetic is the racial damage for the Caldari and missiles are their thing. The decrease in sig radius is for the purpose of killing the swarms of Gallente drones. With missile skills drones will go down quick. This ship will have no drone bay.
Amarr Dest
The Amarr already have a destroyer the meets their racial designs. What they seek now is to counter the threat of raiding high speed Matari frigs and bring the fight to them even when they try to flee. The ship is more Matari like than Amarr is several ways. Armor is dropped for the sake of speed. Armor goes from 375 on the Coercer to a Thrasher like 325. Base speed is raised to near the Thrasher as well at 235. One low slot is traded for 1 mid slot. The tracking bonus is now lost as well as one turret. Highs remain at 8. Standard -10% reduction in Small Energy Turret Capacitor usage per level stays and second bonus is now a Matari like 5% bonus to velocity per level. The added mid slot can now be fitted with a web to make up for the loss of traking and the added speed and either AB or MWD will make sure the raiding Matari frigs can't flee for home.
Matari Dest
One thing the Amarr hold as an advantage over all is their great cap. Their weakness is also so much of their fittings need this precious cap. Without it they are helpless. This ship is design to suck the cap from the Amarr and then their lives. Turrents reduced to 5 and highs stay at 8. ROF nerf removed. 10% small nosferatu energy transfer amount and transfer range per level. This ship will bleed the Amarr of their life sustaining cap and leave thier lifeless hauls to frenzy of raiding Matari frigs.
As you can see each brings something unique from each race to face each other in the cold war. Now on to the Battlecruisers.
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Valcoria
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Posted - 2005.07.15 07:03:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Valcoria on 15/07/2005 07:07:15 Now for the BC I have the same sort of idea as the dest. Again view these either as a tier 2 BC or just another tier 1 BC just differant than the current one. Each ship is a new hull and not just the same with differant stats.
Gallente BC
Going with another strength of the Gallete in thier close in firepower of blasters this ship was built to bring the fury of those guns to the enemy quickly. Like the Brutix this ship is fitted with 7 high slots and 7 turrets. Drone bay is also the same size. This ships builds off of the strengths of the Thorax cruiser. It has been greatly turned like the Thorax to work best with a MWD. It gains 5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level. To make sure the blasters always hit their target it also gains 10% per level to tracking for medium hybrid turrets. With a MWD fitted this ship will close in on the Caldari and unleash the fury of its blasters and drones.
Caldari BC
Combining two of the things Caldari do well, EW and missiles, this new BC sets out disrupt the enemies turrents and then shower them in missiles. Trades one turret slot for one missile slot compared to Ferox. Slot layout stays the same. To disrupt enemy turrets it gains a bonus of 5% per level to max range multiplier and tracking speed multiplier on tracking disruptors. Then to make sure its missiles hit the fast moving Gallente ships it gains 10% decrease per level in factor of target's velocity for kenetic missiles. The Gallente ships will be shooting into space while the Caldari missiles start to hammer away on them.
Amarr BC
Where the Propchecy was designed to bring fire support to the field while tanking any damage from enemies that got close this new BC is design to bring the fight to the fast moving Matari raiders. It forgoes the advanced ammor tank of the prophecy as well as some of its heft. In its place is a lighter, sleeker, and more agily BC. Slot layout varies from the Prophecy with one low going to the mids. Due to the sleeker hull one high slot was lost as well as the laucher hard point compared to the Prophecy. 250 HP on the hull went to match the speed of the Matari BC the Cyclone. It maintains the Amarr design of 10% reduction in Medium Energy Weapon capacitor use and gains a massive 10% to Medium Energy Weapon tracking speed per level. Not even fast moving Matari ships shall escape the guns of this ship. With the speed and agilty of a Matari ship this ship isn't design to hold its ground like the Prophecy but hunt its fast moving target down.
Matari BC
Where as the Cyclone is a fast moving BC this new BC is designed to rain some long range artilery hurt down on the Amarr. Not only can it be used as a mobile artilery ship is self it can also aid the big guns in the fleet as well. It job it to light up the targets and then hammer away. The ship gains better protected at the sacrifice of speed. Targeting range is increase and a launcher traded for a turret compared to the Cyclone. This ship first paints the target with its 10% increase in range and sig multiplier amount and then hammers away from range with 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret Optimal Range per level. The painted Amarr ship will soon find itself not only under fire from this ship but also the even bigger guns in the Matari fleet.
Ok so these ideas may not be perfect but it does add some unique ships and add variations to ships to choose from. I hope they also fit in with being Cold War era type ships. Like I said no firm stats just mainly ideas.
Feel free to post any ideas of your own for aditional destroyers and battlecruisers.
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Sentille
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Posted - 2005.07.15 11:17:00 -
[3]
While I respect your points of view and time put into your thoughts behind this.
Don't suggested nerfing the 7x280 arties I can get on my thrasher please!
If anything a tech 2 variant should give additional support to destroyers in their roles as small gun/launcher platforms, maybe something to help them tank a little so inties don't eat them as quickly.
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2005.07.15 12:05:00 -
[4]
well, i kinda like these ideas myself, from the brief look i gave them, it seams a fairly well balanced mix you have there
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Taraniis
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Posted - 2005.07.15 13:07:00 -
[5]
I like it, to the point where I read about the Amarr ships. I know you said they are designed to keep up with the Matari vessels and make sure that no one escapes alive - so then why take away the tracking bonus and another turret for the Amarr destroyer?
Also the Amarr BC is pretty pointless as not only has it lost a gun it has also lost its missile point too (which would enable it to hit the faster Matari ships in the first place). Could we not lose a turret but keep the launcher point for example? Personally I would be just as happy with the ships we have but give them a bit more CPU and PG as the BC's are a bit of an arse when it comes to fitting auxilaries.
Although a T2 BC with the resists of a T2 cruiser would be fun...
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2005.07.15 13:28:00 -
[6]
I like the ideas for the Destroyers. I like the idea of a Nos bonus on the Minmatar one but the devs might want to keep that reserved for the Blood raiders.
The BCs look good for the most part but a few things are questionable. The Brutix is already used as a blaster boat most of the time so I'm not sure it makes sense to add another. Why a tracking disrupter bonus on the caldari BC? A EW bonus sure but Tracking disruptors are for Amarr to use against Minmatar.
Otherwise, good ideas.
Sentille: She isn't talking about tech 2 ships she is talking about tier 2 ships like the Stabber is tier 2 and the Tempest is teir 2.
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CriticalJim
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Posted - 2005.07.15 13:54:00 -
[7]
Som egood ideas there valcoria, would be nice to see some tier 2 destroyers I like them and think they are under used
http://www.css-corp.co.uk |
Stuart85
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Posted - 2005.07.15 13:58:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Stuart85 on 15/07/2005 13:58:20 I think for the Caldari Missile/EW battlecruiser to work the Ferox would have to be changed a little to make it a viable gunboat, otherwise we would have two very similar Caldari battlecruisers flying about! Let's face it somethings wrong when over 3/4 of Ferox pilots are using a 5 launcher, 2 turret setup .
Upping the powergrid would be necessary, and maybe changing the hi-slot fittings from 5 missile/5 turret to 3 missile/6 turret would affirm it's role.
Other than that it all sounds pretty good!
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Tul 'Kas
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Posted - 2005.07.15 13:59:00 -
[9]
I agree we could use a second destroyer and/or battlecruiser for each race. I rather like your ideas for the minmatar/amarr destroyers, would be some interesting variety. The gallente and caldari ideas just seem like more of what the race is already doing - could be very respectable ships, but just don't seem as interesting.
Similar reaction to BC ideas. Caldari have realized they can use tracking disruptors against those silly turret-reliant races, which is cool. Matari have realized target painters are useful enough to hardwire into something not made out of cardboard and tinfoil - also cool. But the Gallente are again doing nothing new or innovative. And the Amarr seem a little confused - matching the cyclone's speed is not going to help it hunt anything down. It'd still be slow and unwieldy compared to anything but a HAC, BS, or other BC - tracking bonus is pretty unnecessary for any of those three, and the first two it probably shouldn't be hunting without having faster tacklers along anyways.
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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.15 14:49:00 -
[10]
yay for the fast amarr battlecruiser
think it should look something like this
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Tisti
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Posted - 2005.07.15 14:57:00 -
[11]
I like the caldari destroyer... Now if they would only keep the 7 launcher points and missile bonuses
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Valcoria
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Posted - 2005.07.15 17:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sentille While I respect your points of view and time put into your thoughts behind this.
Don't suggested nerfing the 7x280 arties I can get on my thrasher please!
If anything a tech 2 variant should give additional support to destroyers in their roles as small gun/launcher platforms, maybe something to help them tank a little so inties don't eat them as quickly.
These are not changes to the current ships and are also not tech II either. They would be additional ships in the class using a new hull.
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Valcoria
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Posted - 2005.07.15 17:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Taraniis I like it, to the point where I read about the Amarr ships. I know you said they are designed to keep up with the Matari vessels and make sure that no one escapes alive - so then why take away the tracking bonus and another turret for the Amarr destroyer?
Also the Amarr BC is pretty pointless as not only has it lost a gun it has also lost its missile point too (which would enable it to hit the faster Matari ships in the first place). Could we not lose a turret but keep the launcher point for example? Personally I would be just as happy with the ships we have but give them a bit more CPU and PG as the BC's are a bit of an arse when it comes to fitting auxilaries.
Although a T2 BC with the resists of a T2 cruiser would be fun...
Part of my thoughts behind these designs is making a ship that would work well in a group. I may have over nerfed some designs. Amarr ships are hard to work with because the standard laser cap bonus. Doesn't leave much room for anything else. I will see if I can tweak the design some.
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Valcoria
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Posted - 2005.07.15 17:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Diana Merris I like the ideas for the Destroyers. I like the idea of a Nos bonus on the Minmatar one but the devs might want to keep that reserved for the Blood raiders.
The BCs look good for the most part but a few things are questionable. The Brutix is already used as a blaster boat most of the time so I'm not sure it makes sense to add another. Why a tracking disrupter bonus on the caldari BC? A EW bonus sure but Tracking disruptors are for Amarr to use against Minmatar.
Otherwise, good ideas.
Sentille: She isn't talking about tech 2 ships she is talking about tier 2 ships like the Stabber is tier 2 and the Tempest is teir 2.
In all honesty I have never used a Brutix so I was not sure how most people were fitting it. I was planning on fitting it will rails once another character of mine got one. Maybe I could redo the whole design for the ship.
As for why the Caldari are using tracking disruptors is they are mainly missile users. All other races use turrets as primary for the most part. My goal was to make the ship extremely power with disruptors as in turrets ships would have a hard time hitting it. With high skills and good named disruptors even blaster boats would be missing some shots at close range. I did have the disrupture bonus higher but I figured I would wait on feedback on the general idea first.
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Valcoria
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Posted - 2005.07.15 17:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Stuart85 Edited by: Stuart85 on 15/07/2005 13:58:20 I think for the Caldari Missile/EW battlecruiser to work the Ferox would have to be changed a little to make it a viable gunboat, otherwise we would have two very similar Caldari battlecruisers flying about! Let's face it somethings wrong when over 3/4 of Ferox pilots are using a 5 launcher, 2 turret setup .
Upping the powergrid would be necessary, and maybe changing the hi-slot fittings from 5 missile/5 turret to 3 missile/6 turret would affirm it's role.
Other than that it all sounds pretty good!
I agree with some current ships may need to be changed some. I avoided suggesting these changes in the hope for the most part I could bring additional abilities with these ships. It is hard to do when current ships can work in more than one way. I also never like suggesting changes to current ships since someone may have trained up a lot of skills to use the ship in its current form just to have it nerf. Yes changes are needed some time but I never like to be the one that makes that suggest the change.
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Cycerin Strikebeam
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Posted - 2005.07.15 17:48:00 -
[16]
I love the idea of the gallente destroyer with 15 light drones.
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Valcoria
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Posted - 2005.07.15 17:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tul 'Kas I agree we could use a second destroyer and/or battlecruiser for each race. I rather like your ideas for the minmatar/amarr destroyers, would be some interesting variety. The gallente and caldari ideas just seem like more of what the race is already doing - could be very respectable ships, but just don't seem as interesting.
Similar reaction to BC ideas. Caldari have realized they can use tracking disruptors against those silly turret-reliant races, which is cool. Matari have realized target painters are useful enough to hardwire into something not made out of cardboard and tinfoil - also cool. But the Gallente are again doing nothing new or innovative. And the Amarr seem a little confused - matching the cyclone's speed is not going to help it hunt anything down. It'd still be slow and unwieldy compared to anything but a HAC, BS, or other BC - tracking bonus is pretty unnecessary for any of those three, and the first two it probably shouldn't be hunting without having faster tacklers along anyways.
I was thinking of having the Amarr BC be the center of the group. I still need to boost it some but I want it to be able to keep up with smaller ships in a wolfpack group and still at least pack enough punch to be worth while.
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Valcoria
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Posted - 2005.07.15 17:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cycerin Strikebeam I love the idea of the gallente destroyer with 15 light drones.
Yay it may not be such an original design but since drones are a Gallente thing and have proven themselves before Vs the Caldari is the reason for this design. I think most will be happy I nerfed the guns down because of the large amount and the bonuses given to the drones. Just remember at the same time 15 light theraml drones with pwn tech 1 frigs this ship is one SB attack away from being toothless. Rock, paper, scissors idea.
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2005.07.15 19:09:00 -
[19]
Just to clarify about the Tracking disruptors: Caldari EW ships (Scorpion,Blackbird) get a bonus to Target Jammers. Gallente EW ships (Celestis,Malus) get a bonus to Sensor Dampers. Amarr EW ship (Crucifier) gets a bonus to Tracking Disruptors.
I have no objection to diversifying but I don't know that the devs would go for it.
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Valcoria
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Posted - 2005.07.15 19:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Diana Merris Just to clarify about the Tracking disruptors: Caldari EW ships (Scorpion,Blackbird) get a bonus to Target Jammers. Gallente EW ships (Celestis,Malus) get a bonus to Sensor Dampers. Amarr EW ship (Crucifier) gets a bonus to Tracking Disruptors.
I have no objection to diversifying but I don't know that the devs would go for it.
I will try to explain if better in a more detailed back story for each design. The first thing is the sides are Amarr, Caldari Vs Gallente, Matari so I will be working with shared technology. Some designed will also be based off of stolen tech from the other side. A third way is also some designs will get there tech from pirate factions which share a common hate for the enemy. For that tracking disruptors it is shared Caldari and Amarr tech. Either shared for a common good for both or the Caldari "aquired" it through other means from the Amarr.
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