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Anasur
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Posted - 2005.07.15 19:24:00 -
[1]
Ok, light missiles should NEVER do more damage than a heavy missile per hit!!. We already have a light launcher that fires almost twice as fast as a heavy, and when fighting an interceptor the light did 50% more damage than the heavy per hit. (He was stationary, testing with a friend)
Even by Eve logic this makes no sense, given their whole less-surface-are = smaller chunk of the blast. If a blast twice as big goes off, you are not going to take less damage. I mean it gets ridiculous when a tiny ship can fight you at just about any range because your missiles do squat. A turret may have trouble hitting them up close, but web or something and you can blow them out of the sky, no such alternative for missile users.
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.15 19:25:00 -
[2]
Signature Radius is a really big deal. I can get a hit of equal damage to a cruise missile on any given cruiser with my cerberus to my friend's CN Raven. Throw a bunch of painters at him, and watch the damage just rise and rise.
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 Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Anasur
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Posted - 2005.07.15 19:35:00 -
[3]
Eh, painters seem a bit buggy, I am told stacking with them doesn't work. I understand what the devs were trying to do with missiles, but they just overdid it. Its kind of stupid to be able to wipe out a much tougher ship in a fraction of the time it takes to kill a newb ship. Typical dev response though, never nerf something when you can heavily overnerf it.
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sidthesexist
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Posted - 2005.07.15 19:40:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Anasur
Eh, painters seem a bit buggy, I am told stacking with them doesn't work. I understand what the devs were trying to do with missiles, but they just overdid it. Its kind of stupid to be able to wipe out a much tougher ship in a fraction of the time it takes to kill a newb ship. Typical dev response though, never nerf something when you can heavily overnerf it.
yeah painters do seem buugy yesterday i was using heavies against a sansha frig(wrong i know) started off getting a couple of hits at 160 ish hp's then switched on the painter an got hits of about 29 hp's 
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.07.15 19:44:00 -
[5]
2005.07.15 19:41:25combatYour Bloodclaw Light Missile I hits Mercenary Wingman, doing 40.9 damage.
This is vs. a painted frig...my base damage is 91 damage...there is something wrong here.
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VSX EVE Design |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.07.15 19:48:00 -
[6]
Have to ask Vilser, before someone less polite does...
...is that a hit to shield, armour or hull?
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.15 19:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vilserx
2005.07.15 19:41:25combatYour Bloodclaw Light Missile I hits Mercenary Wingman, doing 40.9 damage.
This is vs. a painted frig...my base damage is 91 damage...there is something wrong here.
Merc wingmen are bad examples in my opinion. They are like a perfect hybrid interceptor and AF NPC. Extraordinarily difficult for their size.
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Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.07.15 20:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Grey Area
Have to ask Vilser, before someone less polite does...
...is that a hit to shield, armour or hull?
Shield iirc.
Good point.
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VSX EVE Design |
James Dashing
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Posted - 2005.07.15 20:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Vilserx
2005.07.15 19:41:25combatYour Bloodclaw Light Missile I hits Mercenary Wingman, doing 40.9 damage.
This is vs. a painted frig...my base damage is 91 damage...there is something wrong here.
This is actually, about right, those buggers have an extremely small sig radius (22.5, 28.125 painted). Running some numbers at evegeek, bloodclaws vs. a painted merc wingman (sitting still), and giving you decent training of the new missile skills, I got 61.55 damage per bloodclaw (average vs shield and armor) on my first try. I even gave a 50% dmg bonus to bloodclaws in case you were in a crow. So maybe I overestimated your skills or there were other factors, but it looks like the damage you got is certainly within reason vs. a merc wingman.
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.07.15 20:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: James Dashing
Originally by: Vilserx
2005.07.15 19:41:25combatYour Bloodclaw Light Missile I hits Mercenary Wingman, doing 40.9 damage.
This is vs. a painted frig...my base damage is 91 damage...there is something wrong here.
This is actually, about right, those buggers have an extremely small sig radius (22.5, 28.125 painted). Running some numbers at evegeek, bloodclaws vs. a painted merc wingman (sitting still), and giving you decent training of the new missile skills, I got 61.55 damage per bloodclaw (average vs shield and armor) on my first try. I even gave a 50% dmg bonus to bloodclaws in case you were in a crow. So maybe I overestimated your skills or there were other factors, but it looks like the damage you got is certainly within reason vs. a merc wingman.
Thanks for the explanation.
I probably jumped to conclusions too quickly - didn't take into account resistances for example.
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VSX EVE Design |
James Dashing
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Posted - 2005.07.15 20:21:00 -
[11]
No prob. And just FYI, in the same circumstances (stationary, painted wingman, giving you the same decent skills) but with 0% damage bonus to kinetics, your damage against their shields comes to a whopping 34.72 =O
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Zaintiraris
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Posted - 2005.07.15 20:59:00 -
[12]
Just good old fashioned encouragement for us to stand outside CCPs office...space...building...hole in wherever Iceland with a megaphone going 'gimme meh bloodclaw II's! i needs them!'. because I suspect they will be extremely good at putting missiles to where people desire them to be.
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Originally by: CCP Hammer
This game was so much better back before people knew math.
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.07.15 22:05:00 -
[13]
Well, keep in mind, you get a penalty for signature radius (if the target is smaller than the missile blast radius), and a penalty for target ship speed (provided it's flying faster than the missile explosion speed).
These two penalties are multiplied together. Thus, if you shoot a normal light missile at an Interceptor, and hit for 50% damage (which is fairly accurate in most cases), AND theres a 50% penalty because that interceptor is going 3000 m/s, thats 0.5 * 0.5 = .25 or 25% of your missiles normal damage. And THEN you have to factor in target resistances. End result, not a lot of damage. A painter will help to a degree. I wish we had another module that made missiles have better explosion velocities to complement the Target Painter, or a nice-all-in-one missile module, sorta like a Targeting Computer, so we don't have to sacrifice 2 mid slots on a webber and a painter.
I mean, as it is, any shield tank more or less needs a Booster, a Shield Boost Amp (to achieve any efficiency), and at least an EM or Thermal hardner, both preferably. Give us the Targeting Computer of missiles and I think a lot of the issues would be resolved.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.07.15 22:08:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/07/2005 22:08:43
Originally by: Anasur
Ok, light missiles should NEVER do more damage than a heavy missile per hit!!.
This is not true in RL. It is not true in Eve. Where's the issue?
Also, don't expect T2 missiles to do much more damage..
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.07.15 22:41:00 -
[15]
when is it not true in real life - sure - if a big torpedo hits a little boat its a waste of ammo, but the boat don't survive cos u used a BIGGER, MORE POWERFUL weapon - the small fast boat might be able to dodge the torp (like prepatch), but it ent gonna survive getting hit
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.07.16 00:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: HippoKing
when is it not true in real life - sure - if a big torpedo hits a little boat its a waste of ammo, but the boat don't survive cos u used a BIGGER, MORE POWERFUL weapon - the small fast boat might be able to dodge the torp (like prepatch), but it ent gonna survive getting hit
Ok, here we go again: Missiles were useless in PvP prepatch (at least on BS and Cruisers). So CCP decided to increase the velocity of them A LOT. But these Missiles would just own everything like they pwned everything close up prepatch. So they nerfed them on smaller targets since most of them wouldn't survive the first volley of high speed torps.
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.07.16 00:25:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Bruchpilot on 16/07/2005 00:25:01
double post
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.16 00:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: HippoKing
when is it not true in real life - sure - if a big torpedo hits a little boat its a waste of ammo, but the boat don't survive cos u used a BIGGER, MORE POWERFUL weapon - the small fast boat might be able to dodge the torp (like prepatch), but it ent gonna survive getting hit
Whats the point of the real life examples ?
I can find dozens when eve =\= RL and so what?
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Booky
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Posted - 2005.07.16 01:08:00 -
[19]
He didnt make the RL comparason, Maya did.
Just an FYI, I have the two most important new skills (10% reduction of speed penalty and 5% reduction of signiture penalty) at lvl 4 and I can now use Heavy missles on just about any frig in the system.
Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post. |
Luc Boye
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Posted - 2005.07.16 01:14:00 -
[20]
Frigs do more damage to frigs then battleships when using turrets. Working as designed. Adapt.
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