Blockade Runners are hard to kill, yes, but jumping through a gate and cloaking is no where near the same as jumping to a cyno in dock range.

I don't think it's an unfair comparison, in their role of logistics the JF is a supercapital.

Except....none of those are capitals, other then the Rorq. Sure, we can re-classify that as a supercap too if you want to consider Orcas as proper caps.

No, none of those ships is streets ahead of it's next lower tier, with the possible exception of the Dramiel. You do remember how a Dramiel couldn't track my Avatar at 20km?

How indeed, I defer to your vastly superior knowledge, my alliance is currently cowering in lowsec awaiting the impending Supercapital nerf.

http://i.imgur.com/sFV4q.jpg

Please tell me how you would bump this Anshar off this station.

[Disrupting supply lines used to be possible before the introduction of the Jump Freighter. Moving things should never be so simple and easy. The reward of the JF far outweighs its risk.

Is market manipulation not PVP? Is corporate theft not PVP? Logistics or the denial of logistics is equally valid in this game as a form of PVP.

You are right, the jump mechanics are a major issue, but only a part of my argument against JFs. The hauling space of a carrier vs. a JF is massive, as is moving all that stuff to a carrier in the first place. Now it's not so much the cargo size of a JF, it's that they can haul so much finished stuff. I mean a packaged BS is 10x smaller than a unpackaged one, what the hell?

Says who? Supercarriers and titans are combat super caps, JFs are super versions of the capital class "freighters" and is thus an industrial super cap.

super cap = super CAPITAL.
Omen != capital -> Zealot is not a super CAPITAL
Freighter = capital -> JF = super CAPITAL

Ooh, I can play that game too.
Moron.
Moron moron.
Mooooroooon.

Simply put, moving vast quantities of materiel from say, Jita to somewhere in Delve, should be a massive logistical undertaking taking several different ships and a meaningful amount of effort.

Weaselior, you're so committed to the routine of ferrying everything to and from highsec that you can't see beyond that. By making that process more challenging, people will be encouraged to avoid it entirely. The more you build in nullsec, the less you have to haul from highsec.

How is it a good thing that the economy of every single part of New Eden revolves around shipping things to and from Jita?

You just need a few carriers jumping over to the low sec point, with some docking up and swapping to combat ships and some staying in triage carriers, or just put the carriers at the gate. We're talking about the freighters being in danger for a minute or so here - as long as you scout, a small group is enough to provide security against anything that happens to show up (get a few fast locking Lokis or whatever to guard against cynos).
There will be some, like you, who still think that that's :effort:, but they can, as I said, recruit miners and manufacturers and have the goods appearing at their base rather then in a trade hub.

It is indeed the same "work" pretty much, but with the difference that getting the huge work decrease from using the JFs require supporting them with other ships, making it a group activity. Anything is much more fun when you do it together with a good group of people rather then solo.

Nope, that's just your (wrong) opinion.
Since you keep ignoring the points of "this will be a group activity rather then work" and "if you don't agree with that, you can help the game by recruiting miners and manufacturers", I'll consider you a troll from now on though.

I've read it, and you haven't really answered it. You've said that EVE is designed in a way that requires vast quantities of materials to be shipped out to nullsec. But you're only half right - EVE is designed in a way that encourages vast amounts of materials to be shipped out to nullsec. A very large part of that encouragement is the ease with which JF logistics work.

On this, I agree - there's more to it than just the ease of JF logistics. But even if all those other things were fixed, JFs would still need to be nerfed, because reliance on them is just too easy.

So how do you explain the frequent use of JFs to move things like new T1 ship hulls, or PI-produced POS fuel?

Except it can use stargates and enter highsec. Show me another jump-capable capital ship that can do that?

Lots of good discourse since I've been here last.

Capital ship, fool: Learn to read

Er, no. I said 'jump-capable capital ship' because that is exactly what I meant. The JF is alone as a jump-capable capital ship in its ability to use gates and enter highsec.

You're not seriously suggesting that Black Ops are in any way comparable to JFs (or any other capital) besides their jump drive, are you? It's not like BO BS can be used for logistics (besides bridging blockade runners around, which is neither here nor there).

Is the Rorqual barred from highsec because of its combat capabilities?

Are you mad that people are actively discussing nerfing the ship you use to do your alliance's logistics? I mean, I for one might be a little mad that my gameplay might change and require more effort.

You want your easy-mode logistics to stay the same because you say it's boring. Clearly it is not that boring and soul crushing if you continue to do it. And you reap massive rewards charging your alliancemates for stuff with no risk to your ship ever.

Yes, that is a good description of your posts.