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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.07.18 22:18:00 -
[31]
i dont believe that one with 50m trit..
well as the ddc guy aboce said, come here and enjoy it too then, err u are afraid of teh ebil gategriefers?well thats why u make more money in 0.0 then in empire, at least after the new missile fix,
its called Risk vs Reward - it also means u need mroe isk cause u loose some.
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.07.18 22:41:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
And for all the whiners "omg 0.0 is teh wonderland" well just move there and realise for yourself the good profit is evened by the time you must spend defending it and working on relations with other ppl to keep the thing working.
Heheh, no offence mate, been there done that.. made far more if i wanted.. then i ever did on lv4's while defending the empire against the forces of evil (well CA but close)
Ps... one of your corpies was trying to flog me 200k zyd, 100k mega last week... id whip him into shape if i were you, he's obviously got too much time on his hands
Ohh and have a word with certain members of your alliance who keep on posting how safe it is deep inside your borders in the thou much go to 0.0 space threads.....
Funny all of it
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"I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."
'A Streetcar Named Desire' |
Derisor
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Posted - 2005.07.18 22:42:00 -
[33]
THose spawns are out of reach to any low to mis skillpoint chars or anyone without a good sized, advanced corp.
Dotn let them fool you into thinking you can take a cruiser in 0.0 and do soemthing meaningful. You cant.
---------
The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
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Darkrydar
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Posted - 2005.07.18 22:44:00 -
[34]
We got 82.5M trit in one spawn in HLW-HP. Each of the three npc haulers dropped 10X cans that were full of trit (2.75M).
OMG, WE'RE UBER (POS KILLS for the nubs) |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2005.07.18 22:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Moghydin
I'm not a miner, but this thing is a joke. Miners in empire have to grind rocks for days to get this amount of minerals and PvPers are getting it for free. And yes, suddenly it's silence. No one is whining against un-balanced loot and nerfing. If they can get millions of minerals for free, why can't mission runners get officer spawnes that drop faction loot in missions?
The reason there is little or no whining is who benefits.
Not many empire people actually know how profitable 0.0 is and how dificult it is to survive out there and thus they are silent.
Alliances and 0.0 pilots arent dumb and thus if they find they can make huge amounts of isk fast they are not going to whine about their huge profits.
In short there is silence and anyone who actually knows the score and tries to inform is a whining carebear.
Next we come to the risk vs reward argument.
Inherently we know that anything done in 0.0 is risky as hell and thus any amount of isk ganed from any source there complies to the overused risk vs reward formula.
Lets however take a look at the risk involved in this threads example:
You kill a rat that drops 50mil trit.
This is a worthwhile load you may think and call in a hauler (fly get one yourself or call a buddy/alt/whatever).
The hauler is naturally fitted for size and as its in 0.0 its fitted cheap.
Lets take a hoarder as an example, the hauler has industrial lev 4 and standard tech I expanders, the hauler and mods will all come at max 500k.
The hauler would be able to carry 10.055,35584m3 of cargo wich would meen you bring in 1.005.535units of trit in one run.
This would meen you could loose 1 hauler and all its mods every second trip and still make a profit.
True bringing in all that trit will take some 50ish trips but with just 500k on the line that is a very high reward vs a very small risk, in reality the 0.0 hauler is taking a much smaller risk than the lev 4 raven mission runner was doing pre patch as even if the hauler would lag out, loose his ship and pod he would still only be out 500k in hauler and gear plus the clone... and if you are an alliance player without access to expendable hauler characters then I dont know what you have in your head.
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Cylynex
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Posted - 2005.07.18 22:55:00 -
[36]
This is perhaps the biggest slap in the face since the t2 bpo handouts. One more flush to the game.
"What, you guys out in 0 sec don't want to mine? No problem, we'll just have some convoys drop huge amounts of minerals."
Anyone who thinks this is fair and balanced....well I think even those people can't keep a straight face while saying "YEAH THIS IS BALANCED"
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Uncle George
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Posted - 2005.07.18 23:28:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
i dont believe that one with 50m trit..
well as the ddc guy aboce said, come here and enjoy it too then, err u are afraid of teh ebil gategriefers?well thats why u make more money in 0.0 then in empire, at least after the new missile fix,
its called Risk vs Reward - it also means u need mroe isk cause u loose some.
Good point. Risk Versus Reward in 0.0 is like saying 1 = 1. You get more you lose more. I spent nearly a year in 0.0, but after all of the wars and fighting pirates, I still had ****e for nout in my ISK account. The only people that make lots of money in 0.0 are those that don't muck in with the combat to protect their areas and the technical term for those isn't carebears, it's ****s.
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.07.18 23:35:00 -
[38]
Let me straight this out.
The 0.0 allaince space core, IS mostly safe. Apart from the occasional pirate frig raids and stuff like that ur usually quietly making your isk.
The risk is another - the risk is about being suddently thrown out of the alliance (or corp) because of some random sh*t, the risk is having teh big guys leading the allaince mess up - and finding 50 men angry fleet pounding your station the next time you log in... and YOU cant do sh*t about that, someone else was too shortsighted with handling deplomacy and suddently ur out in the road (*cough* Xetic, FA *cough*).
Without turning this post into an aliance discussion (I'm afraid its too late anyway), i wanna sum up in this:
The real risk is *NOT* to have somebody blowing you up, its about losing the CONNECTIONS that allow you to dwell in that region of space for which (other) people lost their time and ships to claim/defend it.
- Gob |
Gungankllr
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:12:00 -
[39]
Well, now I know how the low ends are going to be found for outposts and Freighters/Dreads/Carriers.
Brilliant move by CCP.
Mining veldspar isn't very fun.
(Unless you're in BoB, those big Veld boulders in Fountain must be rather relaxing to chip away at)
www.hadean.org
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Kuroro Lucifer
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:21:00 -
[40]
It's not fair! Make them drop 100,000 x Passive Targeters!
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The spider will live forever
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Larsson7
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Cylynex
This is perhaps the biggest slap in the face since the t2 bpo handouts. One more flush to the game.
"What, you guys out in 0 sec don't want to mine? No problem, we'll just have some convoys drop huge amounts of minerals."
Anyone who thinks this is fair and balanced....well I think even those people can't keep a straight face while saying "YEAH THIS IS BALANCED"
I see where you are coming from. It takes a group of miners an extremely long time to mine ore, haul it and refine it. The insane mineral drops in 0.0 must make it seem that low sec residents get something for nothing.
This could not be further from the truth.
These spawns come in different shapes and sizes. They range from a single cruiser sized spawn to triple Angel Carriers and their support is usually impressive.
For those who have never been to 0.0 and think we just land on 3 carriers and pop them in two volleys - think again.
A triple carrier spawn will come with an escort of several Angel Seraphims and Arch Angel Legionnaires - at least 6 of these very hard hitting cruisers. The haulers will make a run for it and, if you destroy enough of the support, the carriers will flee and you end up with nothing. The Angels will hit you with all 4 damage types constantly so taking these spawns out solo is very difficult.
Yes - the rewards are fantastic. Just last night a corp mate and I received 14 mil Trit and 4.5 Mil Pye from a spawn. In the last two months I have probably got a total of 100 Mil Trit, 20 Mil Pye, 10 Mil Mex and 7 Mil Iso.
The fact still remains also that these cargos can be very difficult to move and very dangerous. 0.0 residents should be rewarded with better spawns than Empire residents. Is it too much? Perhaps - yet I do not program the drops.
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Duracell
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:44:00 -
[42]
Its possibly worth mentioning that these spawns are 'fairly' rare and are not the convoys that go from station to station,
They are the belt rat convoy spawns.
Duracell.
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Hans Roaming
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Posted - 2005.07.19 09:58:00 -
[43]
Yeah I've noticed the spawns and loot is better than it was, to be honest though before it felt like the reward wasn't worth the hassle of securing your space.
If anyone feels this is unfair, come out to 0.0 and try it. Oh low sp chars can always be part of a team and haul the mins. Anyone else can always just whine.
WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa.
WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK |
Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Derisor
THose spawns are out of reach to any low to mis skillpoint chars or anyone without a good sized, advanced corp.
Dotn let them fool you into thinking you can take a cruiser in 0.0 and do soemthing meaningful. You cant.
OMGWTF
Really ?
Thats awfull, devls please fix that.
Also please fix 7-10\10 complexes - I cant solo them in my 100k SP alt 8(
It`s the multiplayer game dude (
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:16:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Kerby Lane on 19/07/2005 10:17:09
Originally by: Cylynex
This is perhaps the biggest slap in the face since the t2 bpo handouts. One more flush to the game.
"What, you guys out in 0 sec don't want to mine? No problem, we'll just have some convoys drop huge amounts of minerals."
Anyone who thinks this is fair and balanced....well I think even those people can't keep a straight face while saying "YEAH THIS IS BALANCED"
Come and get it.
We destroyed a can yesterday but we can sell next one to someone.
PS I also will be happy to exchange it to the T2 BPO.
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Snakes
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Posted - 2005.07.19 10:32:00 -
[46]
Please consider the time value of money when suggesting that 50 trips carrying trit is worthwhile. Its not.
btw i have killed (with some help) 3 cargo ships, had 5m trit, 50k mex, and 500k pyerite. |
Dellant
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:30:00 -
[47]
Sounds like another good reason to have hundreds of millions of minerals stockpiled. Revenge!
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
The risk is another - the risk is about being suddently thrown out of the alliance (or corp) because of some random sh*t.
The real risk is *NOT* to have somebody blowing you up, its about losing the CONNECTIONS that allow you to dwell in that region of space for which (other) people lost their time and ships to claim/defend it.
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Na'Axin
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:38:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kuroro Lucifer
It's not fair! Make them drop 100,000 x Passive Targeters!
you mean those things that refine for 12.500 trit?
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Dellant
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Posted - 2005.07.19 11:40:00 -
[49]
It just really depends on how close a station is. 50 million trit will only take around 25 trips in an Iteron Mark V.
More than a few jumps and even I won't bother hauling it.
Just knowing that you have enough trit to build your next 6 or 7 level 2 battleships is worth it sometimes.
Originally by: Snakes
Please consider the time value of money when suggesting that 50 trips carrying trit is worthwhile. Its not.
btw i have killed (with some help) 3 cargo ships, had 5m trit, 50k mex, and 500k pyerite.
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Tar om
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Posted - 2005.07.19 15:26:00 -
[50]
This is a very strange thread.
People are complaining that there is "free" trit/lowends in 0.0 but not in empire? WTF? If you live in Empire its because you WANT TO MINE. If you don't like mining you move out to 0.0 and mine less (highends) or shoot NPCs for your cash. Its the empire dwellers who are fat and rich with their all T2 agent running Battleships, and HACs for each complex. You find much less wealth going on in 0.0 - its the frontier and PvP setups are far less likely to be all T2 than an agent runners ship.
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.07.19 15:32:00 -
[51]
Are these spawns pirate convoys or empire convoys.
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Larsson7
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Posted - 2005.07.19 15:50:00 -
[52]
They are Pirate Convoys. At least anyone that I have ever found has belonged to a pirate faction.
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.07.19 15:57:00 -
[53]
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Ben Derindar
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Posted - 2005.07.19 20:46:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Derisor
Dotn let them fool you into thinking you can take a cruiser in 0.0 and do soemthing meaningful. You cant.
What Derisor means to say here is that *he* can't.
/Ben
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Kalened
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Posted - 2005.07.19 20:50:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Galk
Yep.
They were posting about this the other week.... 50 million droped trit there... 65k zyd here ect....
While everybody in the empire is having to grind there minerals to build... seems the jocks in 0.0 atm are getting it droped in their laps for free.... leaving them time to do other things.
Ofcourse.. like nobody is gona scream 'nerf' it are they
I don't see the balance here.... surely if you want the highend content, if your empire or 0.0.. you should still have to have mining crews grinding it out... drops like this on any sort of regular basis negate that need... massive unbalance in the force in ensues.....
Last i was around in 0.0 i remember it being about 4 million trit a drop... and we found haulers quite often.. if they have increased in numbers.. and these huge drops are about.. well.... bugger meh with the nerfbat why don't ya
There is no balance between 0.0 and empire space nor should there be. The Alliances out in 0.0 have to deal with many more threats and they are rewarded with much better money. If you don't like this move to 0.0.
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2005.07.19 21:23:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kalened
There is no balance between 0.0 and empire space nor should there be. The Alliances out in 0.0 have to deal with many more threats and they are rewarded with much better money. If you don't like this move to 0.0.
Yes, move to 0.0 where you'll get torn to shreads by the same alliances. Looks like the alliances were unable (or unintersted) in creating an economic infrastructure in thier controlled territories. They were too busy shooting neutrals (i know they had their motives, at least sometimes). So, in order to buy new big toys they had to come to empire and buy minerals from the lowly miners. But no more. They recieved a gift from heaven. They get all they need for the new staff as a gift.
Now 0.0 ppl are telling about huge risk of living there, of need to replace ships and modules that get destroyed all the time. But only a few threads away the very same ppl were talking about how the 0.0 could be safe just if you use your brain and common sence.
Conclusions anyone?
P.S. May be 0.0 can be safe if you're part of an alliance. The point is - most people aren't.
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slapp
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Posted - 2005.07.19 21:34:00 -
[57]
EXODUS LADS!
__________________________________________________
CAREBEAR, n.
A member of a large and powerful tribe whose influence in CCP affairs has always been dominant and controling. |
Jezala
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Posted - 2005.07.19 21:43:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Jezala on 19/07/2005 21:43:40
Originally by: Moghydin
Yes, move to 0.0 where you'll get torn to shreads by the same alliances. Looks like the alliances were unable (or unintersted) in creating an economic infrastructure in thier controlled territories. They were too busy shooting neutrals (i know they had their motives, at least sometimes). So, in order to buy new big toys they had to come to empire and buy minerals from the lowly miners. But no more. They recieved a gift from heaven. They get all they need for the new staff as a gift.
Now 0.0 ppl are telling about huge risk of living there, of need to replace ships and modules that get destroyed all the time. But only a few threads away the very same ppl were talking about how the 0.0 could be safe just if you use your brain and common sence.
Conclusions anyone?
P.S. May be 0.0 can be safe if you're part of an alliance. The point is - most people aren't.
Are you saying that the boost to convoy drops and loot in general is still not enough to offset the risks in 0.0 for you.
What kind of rewards would make it worth the effort to suffer the the current 0.0 risk (for those not in alliances)? How about doubling the mineral drops and increasing the frequency of faction loot? Well I happen to agree with you, if the current rewards are still not enough to offset the 0.0 risks then CCP should consider increasing the rewards...perhaps by two or three-folds.
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2005.07.19 22:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jezala
Are you saying that the boost to convoy drops and loot in general is still not enough to offset the risks in 0.0 for you.
What kind of rewards would make it worth the effort to suffer the the current 0.0 risk (for those not in alliances)? How about doubling the mineral drops and increasing the frequency of faction loot? Well I happen to agree with you, if the current rewards are still not enough to offset the 0.0 risks then CCP should consider increasing the rewards...perhaps by two or three-folds.
Let me explain how I see this from non-alliance player point of view. No matter how high the rewards are in 0.0, it means only more strength in the hands of 0.0 players and nothing to me. Why? Because I won't be lucky enough to get to those rewards. I, for example, have no 0.0 base of operations, so I have no "my own" 0.0 territory. Between me and 0.0 are a doezn of low sec gank systems. And in order to get something from 0.0 rewards I'll have to go all this way in a battleship. How high are my chances of getting there (considering that PvP and NPC setups are not the same). Then I'll have to hunt NPC's in 0.0 and then go back to the empire through the very same gank systems.
I estimate my chances of returning back in my ship and not to my clone are pretty slim.
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.07.19 22:18:00 -
[60]
Edited by: babyblue on 19/07/2005 22:19:17
I think that, yes a problem with going into 0.0 is alliances, but there are alliances in game that will let you show up in their space, provided you aren't a complete **at. Just make contact with them. Check out the recruitment board to find out whose who. You will more than likely be blown out by Stain and FA (they still exist?) and other high minded, AR alliances. People like the 5 are pretty cool about things though.
Questions about the drops though: do the cans still pop after 2 hours? Has anyone ever been able to haul this stuff back to station? I did it once in Immensea with 3m trit - never again , and that was before the Uber drops.
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