| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
7
   |
Posted - 2013.02.08 15:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Basically I've been running a lot of numbers recently and for a lot of T2 ships I can't make them profitable. Is this the famous, "we can't compete with BPOs" or is this more likely the result of unstable T2 production lines?
Basically even with maxed skills, and putting out buy orders on components as cheaply as I can that will actually get filled, I can't seem to make any money on a great many T2 ships. I just wanted to know if I'm missing something in my calculations.
Prices are coming from Rens, using EveHQ Prism to calculate required quantities.
Please help this newbie industrialist. |
Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 15:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Some of the lesser used t2 ships have their markets controlled by the BPO holders. The majority of t2 ships and probably 98% of t2 items should be profitable with 1/2 decent skills though.
Ships also tend to be made by people with max or near max invention skills. Modules you can easily get away with 3/3/3. This makes ship margins a bit smaller.
Also, a large portion of ship invention uses DECRYPTORS... I highly suspect you are not using these. This would cause the ME levels to be -4 instead of a possible -2 or -1... which destroys the profitability.
List of random ships that are profitable to invent:
bombers
interceptors (low margins.)
Electronic attack ships (low margins)
Most assault ships
Mauraders
Black ops
Hics / Hacs
ect.
|
Mia Restolo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
88
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 16:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Also look at the price histories of the components to spot recent market manipulation. Your new builds could be competing with pre-manipulation pricing on components containing neodymium for example. |
shar'ra matcevsovski
white knightess
337
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 16:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quintessen wrote: Is this the famous, "we can't compete with BPOs"
its more the famous "cant do own research thing" thing
blindly producing random ships without doing research does and shouldn not work . btw its not just the BPO-¦s that are compeeting with you, its also and for the most part other invetors
shar'ra phone home |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 16:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thur Barbek wrote:Some of the lesser used t2 ships have their markets controlled by the BPO holders. The majority of t2 ships and probably 98% of t2 items should be profitable with 1/2 decent skills though.
Ships also tend to be made by people with max or near max invention skills. Modules you can easily get away with 3/3/3. This makes ship margins a bit smaller.
Also, a large portion of ship invention uses DECRYPTORS... I highly suspect you are not using these. This would cause the ME levels to be -4 instead of a possible -2 or -1... which destroys the profitability.
My calculations included decryptors.
|
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor
Black Core Alliance
865
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 17:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Supply and demand really. Some ships are bought, used for several months then sold. Others are destroyed every day.
I get by fine with level 4 skills. Just have to pick the right items and be flexible to market changes.
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 18:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Running these same ships through my other tool comes up with radically different numbers for the same parameters. I guess I'll have to figure out why that is. |
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
197
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 20:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
So don't invent ships if you can't make a profit on them 
I'm happy enough ticking along with invention concentrating on the small stuff and it's doing ok, sure it's not mega bucks, but it doesn't cost megabucks in failed inventions either.
|
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 20:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Emma Royd wrote:So don't invent ships if you can't make a profit on them I'm happy enough ticking along with invention concentrating on the small stuff and it's doing ok, sure it's not mega bucks, but it doesn't cost megabucks in failed inventions either.
At this point I believe it was a misuse of one or more of the tools I was using. Re-running the numbers with a slightly tweaked data set fixes the issue I believe. |
Raban Sardipan
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 21:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
In b4 Krixtal's Cranes.... |
Huttan Funaila
Terminal Radioactivity
Honey Badger Coalition
162
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 21:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Quintessen wrote:Basically I've been running a lot of numbers recently and for a lot of T2 ships I can't make them profitable. Is this the famous, "we can't compete with BPOs" or is this more likely the result of unstable T2 production lines?
Basically even with maxed skills, and putting out buy orders on components as cheaply as I can that will actually get filled, I can't seem to make any money on a great many T2 ships. I just wanted to know if I'm missing something in my calculations.
One blog post you really want to read is: http://k162space.com/2012/03/08/t2-bpo-returns/
Quote:The Good
93.95% of T2 Gyrostabilizers produced in March 2012 were from invention.
In March 2012, 90.23% of Hulks and 84.17% of Mackinaws produced were from invention.
89.77% of 1400mm II, 82.00% of Tachyon II, 87.34% of 425mm Rail II, 74.23% of Torpedo Launcher II produced in March were from invention.
55.25% of Improved Cloaks and 91.93% of Covert Ops Cloaks were produced via invention in March 2012.
86.81% of 220mm Vulcan Autocannons produced in March were produced through invention.
The Eh
67.85% of Sabres and 65.01% of Wolves produced in March 2012 were the from invention.
72.27% of the 2,005 Falcons produced in March 2012 were produced through invention.
66.13% of Ishtars and 63.53% of Zealots produced in March 2012 were produced via invention.
The Ugly
27.60% of Curses and 22.16% of Pilgrims produced in March 2012 were from invention.
Only 7.07% of Absolutions and 23.62% of Sleipnirs produced in March 2012 were produced through invention.
44.58% of Cerberus and 6.00% of Eagles produced in March 2012 were procuded through invention
I have not seen any similar numbers for any more recent months.
The TL;DR summary is "it depends on the item and the market".
Changes in what is popular, combined with changes in ships (such as tiericide), change what is desired by other players. These changes mean that what is profitable one month can quickly become a money loser the next. Ship changes this summer will make some ships easier to get into. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3425
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 13:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Raban Sardipan wrote:In b4 Krixtal's Cranes....
Actually it was a near 400,000,000 loss manufacturing Bustards.
edit: Some were on the market, especially in Rens, at shockingly below manufacture cost prices. Researched T2 BPO's ? I don't know. It seemed to be more of a .01 ISK War by Market Bots that kept going down and downward with nobody monitoring, or caring, the fact that they were so below cost.
This was around 2 years ago now so it may be different, but I'm certainly not going there again.
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
- Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
24
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 15:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
There is truth in what previous posters have said about BPO raw material advantages and market swings. But never underestimate the power of human stupidity and laziness. There are many, many, producers out there who are stuck in the meme "materials I produce myself are free." This is most obvious with miners producing minerals for T1 production, but there is an element of it in T2 production as well. Many of the subcomponents that go into T2 items come from Planetary Interaction, and I have seen producers develop the same "materials I produce myself are free" meme with PI as asteroid mining. One would think that most people extracting and reacting moon minerals would be cognizant enough of POS fuel costs to leave that meme behind, but I don't doubt there are players so eager to "make stuff" that they happily run POS's making moon materials at a loss without understanding they are doing so.
You simply cannot pick up a random blueprint in Eve and expect to be able to make the item at a profit. Ships are a particularly dangerous minefield of the market, making ships seems to be "sexier" than humdrum stuff like drones, modules, and rigs (which consistently make way higher profit margins) attracting exactly the sort of clueless producer who can't be bothered with doing cost analysis. Around half the items in the game cannot be made at a profit. Most of the rest make profits so slowly they aren't worth the time and effort. The first, most crucial step of any Eve industry is to identify items that can be made at a high enough profit to be worth bothering with. This takes careful research. People don't refer to Eve industry as "spreadsheets R us" for no reason. Fortunately, talented players have developed third party tools that vastly speed up the "find out what's worth making" stage. I am personally fond of Eve IPH. There are numerous others out there to choose from if Eve IPH doesn't suit you. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3426
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 15:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Or they could be deliberately taking a loss without care just to Gank the Market in that particular form of "PvP".
After all, it's not really a big deal to take huge losses on something like this when nowadays you can spend $20 and get 530,000,000 ISK to re-pad your account. (I did this back then for about 350,000,000 ISK to make up for the loss, but only because I just wanted to get rid of the ships at that point).
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
- Oscar Wilde - 1870's |
J'Ribs
Ribsco
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 17:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
http://bp.kiwi.frubar.net/
Hi there.
I'm sitting with 30 billion in my wallet, ALL from t2 invention.
that link is worth it's weight in gold.
If it says it's not profitable, it just ain't.
Fair warning: I was a t2 RIG inventor almost exclusively.
You have to scroll thru each decryptor to see if ANY are profitable. Takes about 30 seconds.
btw: Some Mag Sites in null drop ME 0 Rig BPCs so sometimes you are fighting against explorers too.
|
Quintessen
Nakamori Ventures
11
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 18:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
J'Ribs wrote:http://bp.kiwi.frubar.net/
Hi there.
I'm sitting with 30 billion in my wallet, ALL from t2 invention.
that link is worth it's weight in gold.
If it says it's not profitable, it just ain't.
Fair warning: I was a t2 RIG inventor almost exclusively.
You have to scroll thru each decryptor to see if ANY are profitable. Takes about 30 seconds.
btw: Some Mag Sites in null drop ME 0 Rig BPCs so sometimes you are fighting against explorers too.
Once I figured out what I was doing wrong with the software, yes I can see them very profitable. |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |