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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
84
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nuela wrote:You young whippersnappers may not know but after Star Wars came out, Lucas thought he pretty muched owned 'Space'. Any movie in Space had to contend with Lucas's Lawyers. Battlestar Galactica had loads of issues with them.
Did he also sue Ronald Reagan for naming his private money sink after his beloved movie? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Gordian Knot Holdings
5786
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 18:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Marines in space is a popular theme in Science Fiction, tbh GW haven't got a leg to stand on
To add to the literary references above there's also the Honorverse series of books, all of which feature Marines as ground assault and ship boarding troops attached to Naval units in space. The author even refers to them as a throw back to historical Earth based naval terms and tactics (he calls it wet navy) and keeps their command structure as it exists today.
Eve in a nutshell, it's me vs the universe, and everybody in it. |
Joran Dravius
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
67
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Posted - 2013.02.18 19:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:I don't think this has anything to do with DUST, though. The contension is over the term 'space marine', not the idea of superdudes in armour. A lot of trademark claims appear riduculous on the face but defending them is a necessity to maintain a a certain image your competitors don't
Yes, the image of being a greedy bully who abuses the trademark system for financial gain.
Nuela wrote:
You young whippersnappers may not know but after Star Wars came out, Lucas thought he pretty muched owned 'Space'. Any movie in Space had to contend with Lucas's Lawyers. Battlestar Galactica had loads of issues with them.
To be fair, it's hard not to notice how much the BSG ships look like x-wings. |
Davith en Divalone
Plate of Beans Incorporated
74
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Posted - 2013.02.18 19:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
At least according to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, descriptive trademarks that use common, everyday words associated with an object are weak and often unenforceable. You probably can't enforce a trademark on a soft drink named "soda" or a yogurt named "creamy." |
Jonah Gravenstein
Gordian Knot Holdings
5787
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Posted - 2013.02.18 19:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
Davith en Divalone wrote:At least according to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, descriptive trademarks that use common, everyday words associated with an object are weak and often unenforceable. You probably can't enforce a trademark on a soft drink named "soda" or a yogurt named "creamy."
Unless you're Apple, then you can trademark anything that contains the words "Pod" or "Phone" even if there is good evidence of prior use. Money talks, so does bullshit.
Eve in a nutshell, it's me vs the universe, and everybody in it. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
1169
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Posted - 2013.02.18 19:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Trademarks are either defended, or they're lost. If everyone uses them, without license, they become 'generic terms'. Hoover have a problem here. As do Xerox. And Bandaids.
And there's no real concept of prior art with them.
They are, however, specific.
Trademark space marine, and you don't get 'star marine','colonial marine' or anything along those lines.
(I'm not saying GW are right here. But if they think they have a relevant mark, they pretty much /need/ to act)
FuzzWork Enterprises
http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/
Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities.As well as mysql and CSV/XLS conversions of the Static Data Extract. |
Darvaleth Sigma
196
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Posted - 2013.02.18 20:59:00 -
[37] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Games Workshop can take, and its IP rights, and shove them so far up their collective asses that they taste the ink.
[Big load of anger, sorely lacking in the grammar department].
I'm sorry, but just because you were bad at the game doesn't mean it was purposefully biased against you. Any army can be led to success if the general is good; if they're awful, then their record will reflect that. Please don't spout eye-offending butthurt just because you sucked.
Mars Theran wrote:
Space - Cannot trademarked
Marine - Cannot be trademarked
Space Marine cannot be trademarked.
Really? What about "Death Star"?
Death - Cannot be trademarked
Star - Cannot be trademarked
Death Star - "HERPDERP everyone steal Lucas' idea, 'cause you can't trademark the word "death" or "star"!"
Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life! |
Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures
Surely You're Joking
354
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Posted - 2013.02.19 03:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:Games Workshop can take, and its IP rights, and shove them so far up their collective asses that they taste the ink.
[Big load of anger, sorely lacking in the grammar department]. I'm sorry, but just because you were bad at the game doesn't mean it was purposefully biased against you. Any army can be led to success if the general is good; if they're awful, then their record will reflect that. Please don't spout eye-offending butthurt just because you sucked. Mars Theran wrote:
Space - Cannot trademarked
Marine - Cannot be trademarked
Space Marine cannot be trademarked.
Really? What about "Death Star"? Death - Cannot be trademarked Star - Cannot be trademarked Death Star - "HERPDERP everyone steal Lucas' idea, 'cause you can't trademark the word "death" or "star"!"
ive actually won tournaments, only ones ive lost are when i end up against a space marine player in the finals/semifinals, cause anyoen smart enough to havea half-decent space marine setup already ahs their opponent gimped for not having tehir own half-decent space marine army. |
dark heartt
Space Truckers Assoc
11
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Posted - 2013.02.19 04:09:00 -
[39] - Quote
So now the author can enjoy all the free advertising for her book that GW just provided. Clearly GW was trying to do her a favour haha. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
918
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Posted - 2013.02.19 04:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Well it's a good thing that EvE doesn't use any terms like "warp drive" and "cloaking device" or Star Trek would sue.
EvE Forum Bingo |
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Davith en Divalone
Plate of Beans Incorporated
76
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Posted - 2013.02.19 04:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:
Really? What about "Death Star"?
Currently a dead trademark according to the USPTO, except as a translation for some tequilas. The dead trademark filed by 20th Century Fox in 1978 only applied to board game equipment.
The trademarks filed by Games Workshop in the United States only apply to games, toys, models, and paint.
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Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
Hegemonous Pandorum
93
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Posted - 2013.02.19 08:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
in b4 OOPE
Not as bad as the fact that Superhero is trademarked and held by Marvel and DC. That is Superhero, Super Hero, Super-Hero, etc.
GW does have a strong case that they own a trademark on Space Marine. And they do need to pursue this otherwise the case will be used to errode their Trademark in all areas they use it, which they don't particularly want. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
Home Front Coalition
347
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Posted - 2013.02.19 13:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
As a long-term Warhammer 40.000 player, I still think GW is being very silly. I expected better of them. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe
Defiant Legacy
1039
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Posted - 2013.02.19 13:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
Well, you can't have it both ways.
Either greed is good, and thus anything Games Workshop has claimed can't be used without their permission, or everything is fair and everything belongs to the people and we're heading into the bright communist future. Take your pick, because you can't have both.
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ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
R O G U E
234
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Posted - 2013.02.19 13:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Space marine just means a marine... in space, im sure folks will start calling marines that are based in space somewhere in the not to distant future will be called space marines, just maybe not in fancy 3-4cm thick power armor lol :-P |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade
The East India Co.
975
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Posted - 2013.02.19 14:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
This reminds of the sue happy era that happened at TSR (former maker of the Dungeons and Dragons line) in the late 80's early 90's. The company changed ownership and decided to get crazy suing fans of the game for releasing ANY fan based material even loosely based on the game.
Then they got sued by the Tolkien estate for lifting some of their IP for one of their expansions and that pretty much shut them up for a while.
I could understand if the author had marketed her book as being about the GW brand space marines, or based in that world, or used more of their terminology - trademarks are intended to protect again brand dilution or confusion among consumers. This case clearly has none of those markers, and I doubt seriously that GW will pursue it any further. But that's just my opinion.
(Also, no, not a lawyer, before anyone asks, but I have published a couple of books, so I do have some basic knowledge of IP laws - you have to these days, if you plan to write a book or anything else, just to be able to defend against this kind of stupid).
The Margin Trading Scam: If you fell for it, it's your own damned fault.
Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation
Beacon Light Alliance
147
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Posted - 2013.02.19 14:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:This reminds of the sue happy era that happened at TSR (former maker of the Dungeons and Dragons line) in the late 80's early 90's. The company changed ownership and decided to get crazy suing fans of the game for releasing ANY fan based material even loosely based on the game.
Then they got sued by the Tolkien estate for lifting some of their IP for one of their expansions and that pretty much shut them up for a while.
I could understand if the author had marketed her book as being about the GW brand space marines, or based in that world, or used more of their terminology - trademarks are intended to protect again brand dilution or confusion among consumers. This case clearly has none of those markers, and I doubt seriously that GW will pursue it any further. But that's just my opinion.
(Also, no, not a lawyer, before anyone asks, but I have published a couple of books, so I do have some basic knowledge of IP laws - you have to these days, if you plan to write a book or anything else, just to be able to defend against this kind of stupid).
Yup.
It got so bad that the Tolkien estate tried to forbid them to us e the word 'ring'.
In TSR's Magazine (The Dragon) there was a comic strip about this showing TSR's office and people saying things like:
"Would somebody answe the phone...it's metallic circular banding"
"I just got engaged! Come see my engagement metallic circular band!"
This actually happened in late 70's/early 80's. TSR getting sue happy happened about when you said.
"Doctor says I have Tinitis...it's metallic circular banding in the ears"
You get the idea :) |
Davith en Divalone
Plate of Beans Incorporated
76
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Posted - 2013.02.19 14:51:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Well, you can't have it both ways.
Either greed is good, and thus anything Games Workshop has claimed can't be used without their permission, or everything is fair and everything belongs to the people and we're heading into the bright communist future. Take your pick, because you can't have both.
The common-sense middle ground between these two alternatives is to recognize that trademarks serve to prevent confusion and fraud within a specific market for a specific class of products. Perpetual or universal government-granted monopolies serve to suppress free-market dynamics as well.
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De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade
The East India Co.
975
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 14:56:00 -
[49] - Quote
Nuela wrote:De'Veldrin wrote:This reminds of the sue happy era that happened at TSR (former maker of the Dungeons and Dragons line) in the late 80's early 90's. The company changed ownership and decided to get crazy suing fans of the game for releasing ANY fan based material even loosely based on the game.
Then they got sued by the Tolkien estate for lifting some of their IP for one of their expansions and that pretty much shut them up for a while.
I could understand if the author had marketed her book as being about the GW brand space marines, or based in that world, or used more of their terminology - trademarks are intended to protect again brand dilution or confusion among consumers. This case clearly has none of those markers, and I doubt seriously that GW will pursue it any further. But that's just my opinion.
(Also, no, not a lawyer, before anyone asks, but I have published a couple of books, so I do have some basic knowledge of IP laws - you have to these days, if you plan to write a book or anything else, just to be able to defend against this kind of stupid). Yup. It got so bad that the Tolkien estate tried to forbid them to us e the word 'ring'. In TSR's Magazine (The Dragon) there was a comic strip about this showing TSR's office and people saying things like: "Would somebody answe the phone...it's metallic circular banding" "I just got engaged! Come see my engagement metallic circular band!" This actually happened in late 70's/early 80's. TSR getting sue happy happened about when you said. "Doctor says I have Tinitis...it's metallic circular banding in the ears" You get the idea :)
Thanks for the correction. Glad I'm not the only one that remembers those dark days.
The Margin Trading Scam: If you fell for it, it's your own damned fault.
Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. |
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
251
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Posted - 2013.02.19 16:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
If Tolkien (or his estate or whomever) had taken this attitude, they probably would have had to set up special courts just to handle all the cases. |
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Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
433
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Posted - 2013.02.19 16:44:00 -
[51] - Quote
Well the Amarr Empire is basically Warhammer 40k's Imperium of Mankind. They even had an Emperor that was on a life support device similar to that of WH40Ks "The Golden Throne" which has been keeping the God Emperor in a state of barely living for 10,000 years.
Games Workshop's Warhammer 40k has inspired almost every sci-fi setting for the past 30 or so years now. Starcraft outright copied almost everything from WH40k. Other science fiction universe like Halo draw inspiration from them as well. You can't really blame GW for wanting to sue people because these franchises are getting very popular on ideas that are either identical to or the same as the ones GW came up with.
GW is only suing for similarities to Space Marines though because those are the Poster-boys of the franchise. The Adeptus Astartes or the Space Marines are easily the most recognizable figures in the WH40k universe.
Though I don't think this is the way GW should be protecting their interest. Suing everyone won't really accomplish much other than making them look like a ****. They will rarely have a case and when they do they won't make any significant gains. GW should just stay focused on their own franchise rather than what everyone else is doing. WH40k is very different than every other sci-fi universe out there right now. As long as it keeps it's own identity, WH40k will grow in popularity.
Really the only thing I can think of that GW could win a case in is if they sue blizzard for Starcraft's Terran Marines. If you look at a Terran Marine from Starcraft, and then at a Space Marine from WH40k it's very clear that blizzard copied the design. Really the only thing they changed was the helmet.
Also, I think DUST 514 shouldn't have any problems. None of the soldiers act or look anything like the iconic Space Marines.
I accidentally my assets, is this bad?-á |
Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2013.02.19 17:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
Companies have to defend their property, or they'll have been implied to have allowed the use of it. Anyone unfamiliar with how this works should probably read up on it. It may seem like a bullying tactic, but the mechanism at play also protects the little guys from having their stuff stolen by big guys. Any author who is publishing works independently may encounter issues they're not prepared to handle. If the author is considering to continue writing, she may want to get an agent and publisher, at which point they can help provide the legal protections she may need moving forward.
315 4 CSM 8 |
Davith en Divalone
Plate of Beans Incorporated
76
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Posted - 2013.02.19 17:11:00 -
[53] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Games Workshop's Warhammer 40k has inspired almost every sci-fi setting for the past 30 or so years now.
As someone who actually READS science fiction, practically everything in Warhammer 40K strikes me as shallow and derivative of much better fiction, emperor included. For them to claim ownership over a term that originated in the 30s pulps and was substantially developed by Heinlein and others is ridiculous.
I don't have a problem with them pissing around their tiny little corner in the sandbox tabletop gaming and miniatures. But you don't get to improvise off of Herbert, Heinlein, Doc Smith, Moorcock, and Lovecraft and then play the schoolyard bullies when other people do the same. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
747
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Posted - 2013.02.19 17:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
Perhaps we should find out where WG HQ is and bomb it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
497
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Posted - 2013.02.19 17:37:00 -
[55] - Quote
3 pages because the OP read Mercenaries as Marines? Jeez
wumbo |
Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures
Rim Worlds Protectorate
4
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Posted - 2013.02.19 17:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Trdina Rasputin wrote:Who was first? Aliens 2 or workshop marines?
REFERENCE :D
They are BIG part of that movie.
doesn't matter. the marines in the alien universe are Colonial Marines, not space marines.
also, its just Aliens. Alien, Aliens and Alien 3. we don't talk about ::censored:: |
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