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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 09:19:00 -
[1]
It's the geddon that's ****** up. A long range geddon will do upwards to 950 dps at 40k making a megabeam geddon the third most damaging bs after the megapulse geddon and blaster mega. It's simply horribly unbalanced in todays eve.
I would think that buffing the mega and tempest is not the way to go unless you all want even shorter battles. I was under the impression that everyone wanted longer battles and from that perspective a nerf of the geddon would be the right way to go.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 10:40:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: mahhy
I say the Mega has more "HP" overall, and is the more versatile ship being that it has more med slots.
Right now you are bull****ting my good man. I suspect you fly amarr and try to be a moron. The versatility of being able to engage from 5k to 60k vastly outscores your hp and 1 med slot advantage. A gank blasterthron is dead in about 20 secs to a gank geddon in every unscouted situation.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 10:44:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
I had to train surgical 5, large energy 5, and get tech 2 megapulse, so taht with 6 of them i could break the tank of the more powerfull npcs (1mill+) that orbit around the 40km!
So, you are fitting below max amount of guns. A tank in the lows. and then complain about damage output. You sir, are off the mark. Because megapulse are still more damaging with more range than other guns. you can't base balance discussions on your individual struggle to take out npc's.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 10:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: mahhy
Secondly, you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about and yet you think you can effectively engage with MP from 5km up to 60? Dead wrong.[/Quote]
You'd win the engagement up to 60k for sure meeting a gank blasterthron. And you'd be very helpful in a fleet battle up to 60k. One small clarification I'm talking T2 MP ofcourse.
[Quote]Then you try and state that a gank blaster is dead to a gank geddon in every situation? Again, dead wrong. Do you ever actually PVP?
All the time yes. And more succesfully than mass I would say. And I said unscouted because it's generally very hard to start a fight in less than 10k unscouted. The mega fills a very select niche and does it no better than a geddon. Which has alot more versatility due to the mega pulse range.
Quote:
Finally, go and figure out what the MP actually does for damage, as a turret, compared to Blasters. Then maybe people will start realizing if a change is needed, it needs to be the stacking penalty.
Well I'm actually inclined to say it's the geddon that needs nerfing. That a t1 can take out it's t2 counterpart in same config is wrong imho. Amarr in itself is not balanced and it ****s up risk vs. reward.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 11:10:00 -
[5]
You asked, I answered. Ofcourse, your opinion might differ from mine. But that does not change the fact that if you get prissy with me I'll answer in due style. Now get over yourself.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 13:46:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Joan Smith
ganktempest with auto vs a gankgeddon (both t2 guns fited)
and tempest won with 20% hull seems balance to me
try ur self on test!
Not correct. Maxed out Tempest and Geddons are not even close in damage output. The tempest is almost 300dps behind, with alot shorter range.
The tempest have a few other things going for it but when it comes to damage output it simply is nowhere near close to geddon or blasterthron. A long range geddon outdamages an ac pest lmao.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 14:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
The damage mod stacking penalty is the only thing that needs changing, not the megapulse OR the geddon. If a geddon can only fit 3 damage mods, it suddenly isnt all that amazing anymore. And tbh post-nerf megapulse are pretty crappy on apocs which get no damage bonus, so they arent the problem. This would also make combat in eve last a littttttttttle longer which is always good IMO.
gank 4tl
A megapulse geddon is generally the best close range bs. The only tier 1 to even remotely factor in discussion and arguably better than any t2 bs. A megabeam geddon is the absolute same (see shirei's post).
The armageddon even beats it's own t2 bs. How much more obvious can it get what needs changing?
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 16:24:00 -
[8]
Well, I guess we won't get any further. My opinion is that putting a limit to 3 damage mods would seriously suck. If someone wants to specialize his setup so it can only do one thing. Then I think this game profits from allowing that.
And remember, it is only one ship that sticks out. And it sticks out by alot alot alot on both long and short range. The rest is more or less fine.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 19:18:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Fred0 on 21/07/2005 19:26:23
I haven an even greater idea. Allow only 1 of each mod or gun on a ship. Next up is hardeners when taking becomes uber. Nobody is allowed to specialize in anything and we all have relaxed setups where everyone can do everything atleast a little bit but noone is allowed to specialize in anything.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 19:28:00 -
[10]
Specialization in my world is bringing both skills and ship setup together so that they match each other and bring out superior performance to others.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 20:07:00 -
[11]
First off. Putting restrictions on modules is the absolute worst way to develop this game imho. Increasing stacking penalty, sure. Increasing hitpoints, sure. But not restricting the amount of one type of mods you can fit. Right now it might look like achieving the right thing but in the long run it will lead to even more conformity and other modules being treated the same way. End result will be forcing people to use setups that are not as refined.
Secondly. There are already low slot modules that mean more in small gangs than damage mods do. Plates are high up for staying in for that extra volley nowadays. People use running setups (wcs) to beat the odds.
But if you are trying to achieve that gangs should not strive for max damage I think you have not understood how fighting works. Larger gang fights will always be about bringing as much heat as you can and overpowering your opposition.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 20:24:00 -
[12]
They can do one thing, and one thing only. And they do it to their full potential so much that infact they cannot do anything else. 
oops, did I repeat myself?
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 20:54:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Fred0 on 21/07/2005 20:58:09
I would hope that you could specialize in many things. But never at the same time. That's my vision for this game.
Sadly it's not CCP's. (atleast not to the same extreme)
Oh and btw. Before you attack me because of the gankageddon. I feel that the gankageddon needs to be nerfed, it is out of line. It's the one tier1 bs that wins over all t2 bs in damage output. It is unbalanced.
But that does not mean I want all gank setups gone. I still want gank to be an option for kitting your ship out.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 21:23:00 -
[14]
I said can win in damage output. That a geddon has raw dps over every other ship ****s up risk vs reward in fleetbattles as it stands. And that it has it in the abundance it does is staggering.
Everything can be countered but that's hardly relevant in this thread. Don't mix jamming into this. That's all fine if it's what you want to do imho but it has **** all to do with a discussion on damage.
Oh and lmao at the ship descriptions. You've really run out of arguments if that's what youre quoting.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.21 21:43:00 -
[15]
I can't believe this. There are a bunch of contradicting explanations for every bit of kit out there. Compare all bs and see if you find any overlap. Well you do, alot. And you must be ****ting us if you think that this one is the correct one.
I agree that jamming has an effect on battles. A big one. But that does not mean that you can't have a discussion about damage and the balance of damage without having to cloud the issue with jamming.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.22 07:42:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Fred0 on 22/07/2005 07:47:52
Edited by: Fred0 on 22/07/2005 07:47:22
Originally by: Ante
Can't harbour any bias for either ship. If one of them is nerfed to be brought in line there's no reason the other shouldn't be. Not much of a problem with the typhoon anyway...
Are you freaking serious? You have 5 pages on arguments of why the geddon is uber infront of you and you bring up slot layout?
My suggestion is to remove the ROF bonus for the geddon. It's been suggested by alot of people before me and it remains the most sensible solution. The apoc is not as overpowered and I would currently go as far as to say that the apoc fits nicely in line with the tempest and mega, well not really but good enough.
One ships sticks out alot compared to others. And it should be brought in line.
Oh and no mahhy. I drove one of those geddons myself last night. It's an absolute beauty with 7 megabeams and 7 hs's. Oh and have a look on the killboards, alot of people know this and use this right now.
EDIT: I see that a few are thinking it's fine that the geddon has an absolute damage/range edge compared to all other bs. Now that is fine but there is not much point in us arguing about that because my beef is with the people who don't realise that the geddon is overpowered.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.22 08:03:00 -
[17]
Now wolverine, please go back and read the whole thread. Because you are starting this thread right over posting things that were refuted 3 pages back.
And the megathron was built as both a rail and blaster platform. That's why it gets bonus to both of those.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.22 08:07:00 -
[18]
Special Ability: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level.
Applies to both rails and blasters. Learn the ships. Learn the math. Then come back and argue.
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Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.22 08:38:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Fred0 on 22/07/2005 08:39:42
Mahhy, perhaps we can agree to disagree. I really think it is overpowered but I don't have the stamina to requote the arguments. I give up.
Oh but, I'll reiterate this. Tamper with the stacking penalty for sure. Increase HP's, sure. But restricting the use of mods is the worst way to go if you want this game to become more varied in setups.
Imho, you should be able to fill your ship with modules specced for any role you wish to fill.(all modules, all slot sizes) Be it damage, tanking, running, jamming or whatever.
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