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Megyn Kendall
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.02.10 17:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
For a long time fleet miners have needed a survey scanner that matches the mining range of their barges.
As it is essential to have the scanner on the barge itself in order to mine efficiently by locking/unlocking on asteroids directly from the scanner, having the scan bonus on the capital ship is ineffectual.
This is especially so now that Hulks are purposed for fleet mining they're likely to always have an increased laser range. Their laser range is 26km and the best scanner is 22 leaving a sizable hole
Proposal:
A Role Bonus for Hulks to boost survey scanner range
-or-
Extend capital ship bonus to fleet members, perhaps as a leadership skill.
-or-
Increase range of Survey Scanner II |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2317
|
Posted - 2013.02.10 22:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
OR have an Orca in fleet that does this for you.
Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Megyn Kendall
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.02.10 22:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:OR have an Orca in fleet that does this for you. Thank for for your reply. But please do read the thread before making a knee-jerk form reply.
"As it is essential to have the scanner on the barge itself in order to mine efficiently by locking/unlocking on asteroids directly from the scanner, having the scan bonus on the capital ship is ineffectual." |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
1939
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Posted - 2013.02.11 00:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:OR have an Orca in fleet that does this for you.
This.
Have the Orca broadcast the asteroids for you.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2323
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Posted - 2013.02.11 00:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Megyn Kendall wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:OR have an Orca in fleet that does this for you. Thank for for your reply. But please do read the thread before making a knee-jerk form reply. "As it is essential to have the scanner on the barge itself in order to mine efficiently by locking/unlocking on asteroids directly from the scanner, having the scan bonus on the capital ship is ineffectual."
I did read it. As Shah pointed out, it is not essential for a barge to have an ore scanner to mine effectively. The tools are already available in game to allow you to do this efficiently. Hint: It requires teamwork.
Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Megyn Kendall
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.02.11 00:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Megyn Kendall wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:OR have an Orca in fleet that does this for you. Thank for for your reply. But please do read the thread before making a knee-jerk form reply. "As it is essential to have the scanner on the barge itself in order to mine efficiently by locking/unlocking on asteroids directly from the scanner, having the scan bonus on the capital ship is ineffectual." I did read it. As Shah pointed out, it is not essential for a barge to have an ore scanner to mine effectively. The tools are already available in game to allow you to do this efficiently. Hint: It requires teamwork.
The entire premise of the thread is fleet mining with a capital ship. Restating that a capital ship should be present when mining with a capital ship is a fairly clear indicator that you didn't read it and are trolling. |
Megyn Kendall
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.02.11 00:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:OR have an Orca in fleet that does this for you. This. Have the Orca broadcast the asteroids for you.
But you aren't a miner, so you don't get it, and are just trolling.
Miners lock and unlock asteroids directly from the scan result window (not the overview) - where the status of each asteroid can bee seen.
The capital ship having a scan result window does not allow the miner to lock on asteroids from it. So barges must have the scanner.
Hulks, being fleet purposed barges, should have a scanning ability at least equal to their laser range. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
1939
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Posted - 2013.02.11 03:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Megyn Kendall wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:OR have an Orca in fleet that does this for you. This. Have the Orca broadcast the asteroids for you. But you aren't a miner, so you don't get it, and are just trolling.
Just because I disagree with the reason you think you need this addition/alteration does mean I'm trolling. And I have mined in the distant past. The Orca/Rorqual scanned stuff and broadcasted the best 'roids. We targeted and mined.
Megyn Kendall wrote:Miners lock and unlock asteroids directly from the scan result window (not the overview) - where the status of each asteroid can bee seen.
And you can do the same using the broadcast window.
Megyn Kendall wrote:The capital ship having a scan result window does not allow the miner to lock on asteroids from it. So barges must have the scanner.
No they don't. The Orca/Rorqual simply needs to broadcast which asteroids are best.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2327
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 03:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Megyn Kendall wrote:The entire premise of the thread is fleet mining with a capital ship. Restating that a capital ship should be present when mining with a capital ship is a fairly clear indicator that you didn't read it and are trolling.
Last I checked, a Hulk is not a capital ship. I read your post & understood it perfectly, I just disagreed. Labelling anyone that disagrees with you as a troll doesn't help your argument.
Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
81
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 04:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Having the Orca call targets is fine with 2 or 3 people, but add in 5 or 6 and its a nightmare, letting the miners decide how to mine is best way to ensure max efficiency. No missed cycles, no burning crystals and no doubling up on rocks.
If the Orca had a way of assigning rocks to people that wasn't a fleet broadcast then great, but the current method sucks.
Add in that Off-grid boosting exists and there you are, Survey scanner II needs a range boost.
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Intar Medris
Four Pillar Production
Headshot Gaming
56
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Posted - 2013.02.11 04:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:OR have an Orca in fleet that does this for you.
And if you have three toons, and only one monitor WTF then.
I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2334
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Posted - 2013.02.11 05:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Intar Medris wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:OR have an Orca in fleet that does this for you. And if you have three toons, and only one monitor WTF then.
Window mode?
Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
469
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Posted - 2013.02.11 14:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
The non-miners *really* don't get it, do they?
The point of the scanner isn't to know which rocks are best, it's to know when to turn off *your* mining lasers so that you don't waste 50% or more of a cycle on a dead asteroid. This is not information that can be transmitted from the support ship as they don't have all the data necessary to make that call.
[edit]
What would be really useful is to have ships in a fleet share scanner results (for any type of scanner) automatically.
We have that whole subspace network thing going, it would make sense for such primitive data to be shared out along with general telemetry and such.
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
2343
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Posted - 2013.02.11 14:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:The non-miners *really* don't get it, do they?
They tell me I don't pay attention, then proceed to not pay attention.
I used to mine. I did it for a couple of years. The thing you're asking for is easy to manage with other people. If your Orca pilot can't give you a number when he scans the ore & do a tiny bit of math that takes a split second to process, then you need a more competent Orca pilot. It's kind of like FCing a fleet, only much easier.
Buzzy Warstl wrote:What would be really useful is to have ships in a fleet share scanner results (for any type of scanner) automatically.
Now this is a far better proposition, one that I would actually get behind.
Apparently booking your flight & accomodation to Iceland BEFORE you buy the tickets for the convention which is pretty much the only reason you wanted to go there in the first place is popular. |
Megyn Kendall
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.02.11 15:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
The barge pilot needs to be able to see how ore levels have changed in order to unlock asteroids before they deplete FROM THE SCANNER WINDOW so he unlocks the correct laser. Otherwise he wastes cycle time on empty asteroids. With many asteroids having only 1-2 cycles in them this is a constant process and not doing it can cut your m3/hr by upwards of 40%.
The only way to mine efficiently is for the scanner to be on the barge. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
1791
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Posted - 2013.02.11 18:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
I actually support this...
Increasing the range of an asteroid scanner isn't a big game breaking thing.... although.... perhaps we shouldn't boost the T2/Meta 4 to do this, and instead add an "Ore Survey Scanner" faction mod with the appropriate range....
A.) It creates an additional piece of bling to be fit on the barge Pi+Ķata.
B.) It uses up a valuable midslot... thereby weakening the potential tank of the mining vessel!!!
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Temp888
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.11 18:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Megyn Kendall wrote:For a long time fleet miners have needed a survey scanner that matches the mining range of their barges.
As it is essential to have the scanner on the barge itself in order to mine efficiently by locking/unlocking on asteroids directly from the scanner, having the scan bonus on the capital ship is ineffectual.
This is especially so now that Hulks are purposed for fleet mining they're likely to always have an increased laser range. Their laser range is 26km and the best scanner is 22 leaving a sizable hole
Proposal:
A Role Bonus for Hulks to boost survey scanner range
-or-
Extend capital ship bonus to fleet members, perhaps as a leadership skill.
-or-
Increase range of Survey Scanner II The OP is correct.
Scanners must be on the Hulks. Hulk pilots need to constantly monitor asteroid levels in order to efficiently manage their laser cycles.
Only trolls and non-miners give the 'dur, an orca kan du eet, dur!' answer.
Good idea, long overdue.
The Hulk Role Bonus is the most selective of the proposals with the least auxiliary impact.
+1 |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
1791
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 18:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Temp888 wrote:Megyn Kendall wrote:For a long time fleet miners have needed a survey scanner that matches the mining range of their barges.
As it is essential to have the scanner on the barge itself in order to mine efficiently by locking/unlocking on asteroids directly from the scanner, having the scan bonus on the capital ship is ineffectual.
This is especially so now that Hulks are purposed for fleet mining they're likely to always have an increased laser range. Their laser range is 26km and the best scanner is 22 leaving a sizable hole
Proposal:
A Role Bonus for Hulks to boost survey scanner range
-or-
Extend capital ship bonus to fleet members, perhaps as a leadership skill.
-or-
Increase range of Survey Scanner II The OP is correct. Scanners must be on the Hulks. Hulk pilots need to constantly monitor asteroid levels in order to efficiently manage their laser cycles. Only trolls and non-miners give the 'dur, an orca kan du eet, dur!' answer. Good idea, long overdue. The Hulk Role Bonus is the most selective of the proposals with the least auxiliary impact. +1
No.... no need for a role bonuses.... Just make a faction Mod to get that extra 20% range you covet... |
Temp888
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.11 19:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:No.... no need for a role bonuses.... Just make a faction Mod to get that extra 20% range you covet... The Role Bonus still takes up the tank slot you covet... |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
1792
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Posted - 2013.02.11 19:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Temp888 wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:No.... no need for a role bonuses.... Just make a faction Mod to get that extra 20% range you covet... The Role Bonus still takes up the tank slot you covet...
but a t2 scanner isn't worth much.... An Ore Faction Scanner might actually be worth 25-50m.... which is an important piece of the gankvalue-to-lootvalue ratio!!!
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Intar Medris
Four Pillar Production
Headshot Gaming
61
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Posted - 2013.02.12 00:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Megyn Kendall wrote:The barge pilot needs to be able to see how ore levels have changed in order to unlock asteroids before they deplete FROM THE SCANNER WINDOW so he unlocks the correct laser. Otherwise he wastes cycle time on empty asteroids. With many asteroids having only 1-2 cycles in them this is a constant process and not doing it can cut your m3/hr by upwards of 40%.
The only way to mine efficiently is for the scanner to be on the barge.
Pro tip: Don't mine multiple rocks at the same time. Focus on one mining at half cycles if necessary. Mining 2-3 rocks ar the same time is over complicating it. But the scanner could still buffed a bit.
I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen. |
AnJuan Jackson
SHUN THE NON BELIEVER
Li3 Federation
49
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Posted - 2013.02.12 03:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Harden up and take it like a man. Teamwork, organization, and communication should be the only tools needed to accomplish effective mining. |
Intar Medris
Four Pillar Production
Headshot Gaming
61
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Posted - 2013.02.12 12:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
AnJuan Jackson wrote:Harden up and take it like a man. Teamwork, organization, and communication should be the only tools needed to accomplish effective mining.
LOL 99% of the mining in EVE is done solo. Even if you an Orca with a 3-4 Hulks chances are it is the same person.
I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen. |
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
84
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Posted - 2013.02.12 14:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Even with me and one other pilot in a belt together it can be hard simply to determine what rocks the other is mining.
Having a system in place to tag asteroids ( the current system blows )
Best option; Make it so you can see fleet locks in the overview next to the target. |
Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
587
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Posted - 2013.02.12 18:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Completely support this.
A completely decked out hulk - with faction strips, max boosts, can get up to 40km out - if I remember Tau's post on it correctly.
A Survey Scanner II can currently only reach 22km.
Survey Scanner II's should be able to reach out to a Max'd miner's range -- about 29-30 km - with appropriate ship / skill bonuses.
Adding a faction scanner to reach out to that max range around 40km would be perfect - I know I'd use one.
+100 for the OP.
 For you "harden up" / use an Orca folks - go troll elsewhere. Let's see you tell 30 Miners what rocks they need to target and how much ore is left in them.
And you'll need to do it sitting in the belt in a Rorqual because the Orca doesn't have the range to reach the farthest rocks in those really big Grav sites.
Learn to understand what you're talking about before make posts that are otherwise non-constructive.
HROLT CEO
Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression - The only way to go! |
Megyn Kendall
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.02.13 19:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
AnJuan Jackson wrote:Harden up and take it like a man. Teamwork, organization, and communication should be the only tools needed to accomplish effective mining. Sucking it up does not mean putting a scanner on the orca. As the miners here have explained to the non-miners it's impossible to fleet mine efficiently without scanners on the hulks themselves, or otherwise being able to directly lock/unlock directly from the scan result window.
So sucking it up means not utilizing hulk's extended laser range and being limited by the 22km scanner range. This means you suck the meat out of the center of belt and leave the fringes before moving on to a new belt to do the same to it.
This leaves fewer worthwhile belts for other miners, people mine less, ore prices go up, and all you non-miners pay more for everything.
Every Orca/Hulk pilot worth his salt already has a scanner on his Hulks. This proposal just allows these fleet miners to ultilize their laser range bonus. |
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Tactical Narcotics Team
1
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Posted - 2013.02.13 20:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
How about a Modulated Strip Miner III, that has a reduced output compared to Modulated Strip Miner II, but includes a asteroid scanner, that has the same (including boosts) range as the Strip Miner III does, that is accessed via the existing ship scanner interface (which should be where any scanning results should be anyway, imho). |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor
Black Core Alliance
871
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Posted - 2013.02.13 22:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
I support this completely. Those that use the standard/unoriginal reply "use an orca/rorq" are just arguing to argue. I don't think they realize yet that it's not convincing anyone who mines regularly either.
This change is such a non-issue to anyone other than those that mine. It's also stupidly uncontroversial, incredibly easy to change, and completely benign to game balance. The benefits would be very welcome to anyone who mines with orca/rorq boosts.
The two options that work the best:
- Increase the range of the T1 and T2 scanners. It's simple (seriously, this is changing a number right?) and gets the desired effect
- Add a ORE faction scanner with the 30-35km range. This adds a new item, but creates a market for something useful, keeps within the spirit of the game (conflict in Ore Ring, ORE is the provider of the top quality mining gear, etc), and creates a positive incentive to obtain it.
This change really is a no-brainer.
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Kate stark
113
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Posted - 2013.02.13 23:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
i'd rather see them add a "volume" column to the scanner, before they started messing around with the range of the scanner.
volume is the only real piece of information i want from my scanner, not units, not distance, but volume.
get me a column displaying volume, then i'll give a **** about the range. |
TemporalEvent
Confederation Navy Research
Epsilon Fleet
1
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Posted - 2013.02.14 01:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
I also completely support this. It should be easy to implement, and does not break any other features. In my opinion, there are no real reasons not to. |
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