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Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
17
   |
Posted - 2013.02.11 15:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
..Just for the hell of it. And because Jerry proposed his view on helping MD in another thread.
MD and investments are a free and unregulated activity. As they should be, the sandbox and all that. Investing in Eve should not have the safety net of CCP to protect the investor.
But freedom of actions does not mean freedom from consequences.
Let me propose the Economic Security Status - ESS -. Along with this, the in game shares mechanic/interface would have to be redone. Which wouldn't be a bad thing, as the system is in rough shape.
Borrower A makes an IPO and raises 1b Isk, to be repaid in full plus interest in 30 days time (which is specified via the overhauled shares mechanic.).
If the IPO is fuffilled as stipulated, Borrower A gets +1.0 Economic Security Standing (or some non arbitrary number.)
If the IPO is defaulted as stipulated, Borrower A gets -1.0 Economic Security Standing (or some other non arbitrary number.)
Rewards:
Besides having the positive social aspects associated with a positive ESS, maybe this could also lower sales tax/brokers fees. I wouldn't want the reward to be so great as to force traders into making IPOs and raising money via legitimate ways, or alts, or otherwise gaming the system. But just enough to reward the successful and honest Borrower. I'd like to hear some thoughts on this and other rewards.
Punishments:
Breaking a contract should be considered a criminal act. As such, having a negative ESS will incur all of the punishments of having a negative Security Status that is currently in the game.
Furthermore, having a negative ESS will make you pay a separate tax as a % in direct correlation to your ESS in addition to the station tax and brokers fee when making market purchases. This tax would NOT go to the investors, but just be an ISK sink.
Additionally, to prevent the defaulter from using an alt or a friend to bypass this punishment by using contracts to get goods, a % of the value of the contract in direct correlation to your ESS will be imposed as a fee.
Fixing your ESS:
Fixing your ESS wouldn't be a matter of grinding belt rats.The only way to fix your ESS is by paying your investors back in full.
The numbers for ESS hits, % of tax fees from negative ESS, and positive rewards for positive ESS would all have to be worked over.
The practice of using throw away alts would still be in effect. The potential scammer and potential investor would have to weigh the economics of soiling a pilot. Like they currently do, but with ESS there is the addition of tangible consequences.
The ESS system would not prevent scams, would not protect investors, but would impose a bit of consequences for your decisions and actions.
I hope Jerry will pledge 20b. |
SinTeryx
Seamless Industries
241
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 16:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
This is a good idea however the biggest problem I see is the actual implementation of the status in-game. CCP would be required to develop an entirely new system in which people who wish to run a bond would be able to post into a system in-game. As it stands I think CCP enjoys the MD and how it works, the risks involved and the increasing hilarity of the things that arise from an entirely player built system.
However, I think someone who has some free time could make a post that might be stickied on the MD that has a list of trusted and successful bonds/operations and another list of scammers(although this list would have to be regularly cleaned up as most of the scammers are using alts =X).
Good idea all in all just the actual implementation and the fact that the MD is just a small portion of all the ideas people have of possible implementation to game mechanics. |
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
75
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 16:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think it's a little bit too complicated. And when it's a little bit too complicated it's more prone to slipping and exploiting.
I would personally see it as a 3rd party thingie.
Some sort of software that would keep the database of Good or Bad bonds via API. Maybe with an addition to menu like Lend Money (where you can set terms) and not just give money. If person fails to give money back as per terms, it opens a negotiation where both parties either agree or not (things happens, bond rollover etc). In case of default, a person goes to database with info of the bond along and everyone can check it.
You don't want total control over bonds implemented in EVE. It will defy the risk, will lower interest rates and probably will terminate the social aspect of it e.g. being reputable. (since that ESS will be grinded badly and people will get scammed)
DRINK COFFEE
Do stupid things Faster with More Energy |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
113
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 16:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Unfortunately, at the very worst this would increase the number of scams. At the least it wouldn't help anyone.
There still wouldn't be any real enforcement behind it, and there are some other potential problems as well that would lead people into a false sense of security.
what if someone and their alt account had an IPO. But not just one IPO. Many of them. To falsely boost their economic security status.
then they could just come on here. Use their status to potentially gain the trust of investors. and then walk away with the money.
Sure that would negatively affect their eco-status. But of course the character who actually pulls the scam if a throwaway. and they immediately shed the bad status.
|
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 17:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
..Thanks for the replies.
Claire- Third party initiatives have been done with little success. Known scammer lists, ganker lists, bad poster lists, etc. They all face the same issue: little to no tangible consequences.
Grison- The ESS' focus would be on the punishments of having a negative ESS, and not the benefits of a positive ESS. I think maybe a token % relief from station tax and broker's fees might be in order, but nothing game breaking as to require traders to gain a positive ESS.
The real enforcement behind it would be the real consequences of having a negative ESS. All the hassles of havin a negative Security Status as well as leans on all of your market transactions and contracts.
All the negative issues that come wih a false sense of security are already in MD, in spades. Forum rep, regular posting, and successful bonds/IPOs. The problems you have layed out are already in effect. And as with any investment, one should never invest more then they are willing to lose, audits, API, ESS be damned.
And finally, I'm not trying to champion this feature to be implemented into Eve. I would like to hear other people's ideas on how to enforce some consequences on scammers, but at the same time not alienate the scammers. They do provide great content, and Eve's history would be a lit less interesting without them. |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
113
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 17:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..Thanks for the replies.
Claire- Third party initiatives have been done with little success. Known scammer lists, ganker lists, bad poster lists, etc. They all face the same issue: little to no tangible consequences.
Grison- The ESS' focus would be on the punishments of having a negative ESS, and not the benefits of a positive ESS. I think maybe a token % relief from station tax and broker's fees might be in order, but nothing game breaking as to require traders to gain a positive ESS.
The real enforcement behind it would be the real consequences of having a negative ESS. All the hassles of havin a negative Security Status as well as leans on all of your market transactions and contracts.
All the negative issues that come wih a false sense of security are already in MD, in spades. Forum rep, regular posting, and successful bonds/IPOs. The problems you have layed out are already in effect. And as with any investment, one should never invest more then they are willing to lose, audits, API, ESS be damned.
And finally, I'm not trying to champion this feature to be implemented into Eve. I would like to hear other people's ideas on how to enforce some consequences on scammers, but at the same time not alienate the scammers. They do provide great content, and Eve's history would be a lit less interesting without them.
And another thing, it seems like this eco-status would only be relevant to like 15 people who regularly post in MD about bonds and stuff.
When it comes to the large majority of traders. They are just using the standard brokerage system. And in the eye of the broker nobody gets scammed.
For example: when a margin scam order fails to go through, nobody loses any money. The person with the items gets the items back. and the person who placed the order gets the escrow returned.
How, and at what price the person got the items for is irrelevant at the point of the order going through.
It is impossible to tell the difference of Intent, when an order fails to go through because of lack of funds. |
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
75
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 18:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well, I was saying about API-enabled loans with "credit history"
Enforcing anything in the game is up to player, I believe that's CCP's ideology. Gaining trust, having revenge etc.
So eventually keeping records falls into player's hands too.
DRINK COFFEE
Do stupid things Faster with More Energy |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 18:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Edit. This post is for Alex.
..Not sure if I'm following your statement, but ill give it a shot.
IPO is made and set for 30 day maturity.
It gets defaulted on.
The defaulter now gets a -1.0 ESS.
With a -1.0 ESS, every market transaction (e.g. Buying a ship from the in game market) is subject to an additional fee, depending on the defaulter's ESS. This is an ISK sink.
Thinking about this tho, the MD forums are low traffic as of late. Makes me wonder if a the low MD player base warrants such a change.
It also makes me wonder if such a change is needed in order to increase MD traffic. |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 18:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
..Claire. Giving trust and getting revenge will still, and always be, in the player hands. My proposed ESS (or any other idea, I'd like to hear some) would simple turn a risk free endeavor (scammer) into an endeavor with some consequences.
Due diligence would still be firmly be placed in the players hands. |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
113
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 19:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:Edit. This post is for Alex.
..Not sure if I'm following your statement, but ill give it a shot.
IPO is made and set for 30 day maturity.
It gets defaulted on.
The defaulter now gets a -1.0 ESS.
With a -1.0 ESS, every market transaction (e.g. Buying a ship from the in game market) is subject to an additional fee, depending on the defaulter's ESS. This is an ISK sink.
Thinking about this tho, the MD forums are low traffic as of late. Makes me wonder if a the low MD player base warrants such a change.
It also makes me wonder if such a change is needed in order to increase MD traffic.
But if someone is using a throwaway alt for the purposes of investment fraud they wouldn't be using it for regular market transactions. They could trade-window everything over from their main.
In what way would this eco-status be helpful in this scenario? |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 19:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
..Alex. Besides the pain and inconvience of flying a trade window pilot with you wherever you go, the ESS could also attach a lean to that trade window. Just like the contract stipulation, by way of a % of the value of assets being traded.
And throw away alts are left almost perfectly untouched. They can still grind rep for a few months and be able to get a 1-5b IPO funded. Although, with more reputable IPO originators with a vested interest in their pilot, small rep small time small reward high risk offers from throw away alts might be passed over.
Jut thinking about this, the age and sp of a pilot, and thus the usefulness of said pilot, will be subject to said pilots ESS. Imagine the Bad Bobby scam. He would not have been able to do that heist with a 4 month old pilot. So in order for him to run off with 400b, Bobby would have earned himself a -10.0 ESS. And the penalties of -10.0 ESS for a nulsec pilot would be quite a burden.
On this line of thinking, my pilot Syds Sinclair, is a high sec industrialist. I could suicide gank and loot an Iterion V and make a tidy profit. But I won't. For many reasons, one being that having a negative sec status would be a pain in my ass and complicate a lot of my operations.
The proposed ESS wouldn't stop scammer. It shouldn't stop scammers. I think scamming in Eve is great and should continue until the servers close. If it was impossible to scam, then me never falling for a scam would not be an achievement.
However, scamming is probably the only risk free activity in Eve. The only activity that is extremely profitable with no risk or consequence. |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
169
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 13:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Seriously, nobody is ever going to come up with a "fix" here. There have been countless discussions and debates about ways to instill trust, create repercussions for scammers, etc. These discussions and debates are never fruitful, nor has this one been.
What everything largely comes down to is that IPOs/bonds/whatever are more often than not just glorified roleplay. In other words, the person doesn't actually need to borrow the money. Typically, they either like managing money for others because it makes them feel like bigshot market trading people, or they're trying to scam the lenders in a long or short con. And sometimes the former turns into the latter.
Believe me, I wish there were some basis for trust in this game, and I wish that there were some real, widespread need for market trader services, such that managing others' money wouldn't be limited to RP most of the time, but rather be a real, legitimate service industry in the game.
Alas, better minds have gone to work crafting up all sorts of metaschemes and market revamps, and after all these years, nobody has managed to come up with a compelling idea. We are stuck in an entirely accountability-free environment, and as such, anything you add to the mechanics is going to be not much more than window dressing, and therefore a waste of developer time to implement.
Sorry to be the one to break that to you, but there you have it. |
Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 15:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:
Believe me, I wish there were some basis for trust in this game, and I wish that there were some real, widespread need for market trader services, such that managing others' money wouldn't be limited to RP most of the time, but rather be a real, legitimate service industry in the game.
There is a basis for trust: Collateral.
Collateral solves everyone's problems. |
Alex Grison
Grison Interstellar
113
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 17:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thur Barbek wrote:Mu-Shi Ai wrote:
Believe me, I wish there were some basis for trust in this game, and I wish that there were some real, widespread need for market trader services, such that managing others' money wouldn't be limited to RP most of the time, but rather be a real, legitimate service industry in the game.
There is a basis for trust: Collateral. Collateral solves everyone's problems.
Collatorol |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3811
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 18:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thur Barbek wrote:Mu-Shi Ai wrote:
Believe me, I wish there were some basis for trust in this game, and I wish that there were some real, widespread need for market trader services, such that managing others' money wouldn't be limited to RP most of the time, but rather be a real, legitimate service industry in the game.
There is a basis for trust: Collateral. Collateral solves everyone's problems.
Advanced scammers and creative people can do wonders even when collateral is used.
I am not going to tell more, as there are many less than innocent ears busy picking up all sorts of possible "suggestions".
Edit: and that's why 3rd party services exist.
If anyone believes EvE is dark, harsh, obscure and full of pitfalls, then they are just at the beginning. It's much more involved and even more obscure than that.
When we see some "how to fleece roleplay investors" threads, remember that anything that goes "public" (applies both to RL finance and much more) it's because it's now old, trite, known. The true escalation is an ongoing race, the cutting edge of scamming is well ahead of that.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 06:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
..Yeah it's all pretty much just a crap shoot.
The MD forums are suffering from a serious failure to launch syndrome:
 Bonds/IPOs? Don't invest, they are all scams.
Secured bond? lol2%intrustkthxbai
Discussing the Markets? Manipulation attempt.
[Thread] Noobie trader advice? Do your own research and find your own profit!
Ebank? Give us your full API and you might get %50 of your ISK back.
Just what exactly are the MD forums good for? Trolling legit traders/RPers out of their own threads? A place scammers to RP their way into billions of isk? A place for RP investors to make Hail Mary's into scammers wallets? |
Candy Oshea
Techfree Investment Group
74
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 07:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..Yeah it's all pretty much just a crap shoot.
I've been following this thread, I have an idea that will give the community some confidence back, its going to take some time, the bottleneck for me ATM is a trustworthy 3rd party, and how they fit into it.
Whether the negatives like to admit it or not, there are multiple legit MD Fund managers, even innovators out there, logging in, paying interest & grinding away at trading/w/e there 'roleplay' is, (trying not to undock.)
A metaphoric Sample.
MD is much like my countries Child Custody laws, the Negatives(MD) believe all men are wife beaters, scumbags cheaters(Scammers) etc, and because this is the case, the law has been written & enforced to suit the Negatives (jerrys 20b, this thread, jerrys other thread, all the regular trolls etc etc). And the guy that "just wants to see his kids" (new fund manager), is immediately labeled, as a Scammer.
As it does happen, there really are scumbags that do that stuff, so the laws 'Scope' assumes this is the case, and the nice guy, gets shafted, even humiliated. Whether threads like these or Jerry's are helping or making it worse of course is a matter of opinion and we are all entitled to one.
Coming soon TM
I've accidentally swallowed some Scrabble tiles. My next **** could spell disaster.
iCandy |
Vurt Konne
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 08:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..Yeah it's all pretty much just a crap shoot. The MD forums are suffering from a serious failure to launch syndrome: Bonds/IPOs? Don't invest, they are all scams. Secured bond? lol2%intrustkthxbai Discussing the Markets? Manipulation attempt. [Thread] Noobie trader advice? Do your own research and find your own profit! Ebank? Give us your full API and you might get %50 of your ISK back. Just what exactly are the MD forums good for? Trolling legit traders/RPers out of their own threads? A place scammers to RP their way into billions of isk? A place for RP investors to make Hail Mary's into scammers wallets?
vote for sticky
sums up like 95% of what i have seen on MD in my short time here, you could have saved me so much reading ;-)
|
Alex Grison
grison interstellar
126
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 16:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Thur Barbek wrote:Mu-Shi Ai wrote:
Believe me, I wish there were some basis for trust in this game, and I wish that there were some real, widespread need for market trader services, such that managing others' money wouldn't be limited to RP most of the time, but rather be a real, legitimate service industry in the game.
There is a basis for trust: Collateral. Collateral solves everyone's problems. Advanced scammers and creative people can do wonders even when collateral is used. I am not going to tell more, as there are many less than innocent ears busy picking up all sorts of possible "suggestions". Edit: and that's why 3rd party services exist. If anyone believes EvE is dark, harsh, obscure and full of pitfalls, then they are just at the beginning. It's much more involved and even more obscure than that. When we see some "how to fleece roleplay investors" threads, remember that anything that goes "public" (applies both to RL finance and much more) it's because it's now old, trite, known. The true escalation is an ongoing race, the cutting edge of scamming is well ahead of that.
The cutting edge of anything ( including scamming )
is rectangle |
Oswaldos
Sine Nobilitatis
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 17:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Fairly young to the eve trade market and the bond market that goes with it but it seems to me that the best way to add some sort of accountability is to do a little meta gaming and legitimize a persons identity in out of game ways like logging IP/MAC address. Its certainly far from fool proof but its better then nothing. A third party service also has merit but with the ease to recycling toons i assume their would be some prerequisites SP wise before one was even considered reputable for an IPO.
My 2 cents |
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
85
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 17:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
I can imagine the amount of possible violence over the game. Scammers don't go to Fan Fests either, I guess 
DRINK COFFEE
Do stupid things Faster with More Energy |
Alex Grison
grison interstellar
127
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 18:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Oswaldos wrote:Fairly young to the eve trade market and the bond market that goes with it but it seems to me that the best way to add some sort of accountability is to do a little meta gaming and legitimize a persons identity in out of game ways like logging IP/MAC address. Its certainly far from fool proof but its better then nothing. A third party service also has merit but with the ease to recycling toons i assume their would be some prerequisites SP wise before one was even considered reputable for an IPO.
My 2 cents
Lets just stop right here.
1) IP addresses are easily changed and covered up.
2) There are 2 reasons you might have to want to know someone's IRL identity, in the sense you have described
-You are planning to try to hunt them down to harrass / harm them / threaten them ( which would get you immediately removed from the eve universe and subjected to criminal charges )
-You are planning to try to sue them if they scam you. Also note that such a case would be immediately thrown out of court. As you hold no interest in the value, time, currency or items in your account.
You also do not own any of the currency, items/etc in your account.
Really, in what ways will knowing who someone is IRL help anyone? |
Oswaldos
Sine Nobilitatis
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 20:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alex Grison wrote:Oswaldos wrote:Fairly young to the eve trade market and the bond market that goes with it but it seems to me that the best way to add some sort of accountability is to do a little meta gaming and legitimize a persons identity in out of game ways like logging IP/MAC address. Its certainly far from fool proof but its better then nothing. A third party service also has merit but with the ease to recycling toons i assume their would be some prerequisites SP wise before one was even considered reputable for an IPO.
My 2 cents Lets just stop right here. 1) IP addresses are easily changed and covered up. 2) There are 2 reasons you might have to want to know someone's IRL identity, in the sense you have described -You are planning to try to hunt them down to harrass / harm them / threaten them ( which would get you immediately removed from the eve universe and subjected to criminal charges ) -You are planning to try to sue them if they scam you. Also note that such a case would be immediately thrown out of court. As you hold no interest in the value, time, currency or items in your account. You also do not own any of the currency, items/etc in your account. Really, in what ways will knowing who someone is IRL help anyone?
It would be harder to spoof a MAC address or IP address then say delete an eve toon and the purpose of having someones IP/ MAC address would be to cross reference it against a list of known bad eggs so to limit your chances of being hosed. As for harassing/threatening outside of game that's rather pointless. Although their would be benefits to knowing about a persons in game assets so you could make appropriate retributions in game on someone who scammed you  |
Alex Grison
grison interstellar
127
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 20:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Oswaldos wrote:Alex Grison wrote:Oswaldos wrote:Fairly young to the eve trade market and the bond market that goes with it but it seems to me that the best way to add some sort of accountability is to do a little meta gaming and legitimize a persons identity in out of game ways like logging IP/MAC address. Its certainly far from fool proof but its better then nothing. A third party service also has merit but with the ease to recycling toons i assume their would be some prerequisites SP wise before one was even considered reputable for an IPO.
My 2 cents Lets just stop right here. 1) IP addresses are easily changed and covered up. 2) There are 2 reasons you might have to want to know someone's IRL identity, in the sense you have described -You are planning to try to hunt them down to harrass / harm them / threaten them ( which would get you immediately removed from the eve universe and subjected to criminal charges ) -You are planning to try to sue them if they scam you. Also note that such a case would be immediately thrown out of court. As you hold no interest in the value, time, currency or items in your account. You also do not own any of the currency, items/etc in your account. Really, in what ways will knowing who someone is IRL help anyone? It would be harder to spoof a MAC address or IP address then say delete an eve toon and the purpose of having someones IP/ MAC address would be to cross reference it against a list of known bad eggs so to limit your chances of being hosed. As for harassing/threatening outside of game that's rather pointless. Although their would be benefits to knowing about a persons in game assets so you could make appropriate retributions in game on someone who scammed you
Well good luck getting everyone to divulge this info for the sake of "security"
|
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 23:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
..Candy I have to admit that what you have hinted at intrigues me.
Alex, Claire, I have to admit I am disappointed that both of you could not add anything of value to the discussion. I expected you two to have ideas that you would want to express.
I'm thinking about making a thread dedicated to teaching new/inexperienced traders. And not theory, but practice. Of the "give a man a fish" variety.
I think of it as a "do this, buy here, sell there, update orders x amount of times" course.
It's the only way I can thi I to add value to MD. |
Alex Grison
grison interstellar
127
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 23:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
There is no real way to add value than to offer collaterol for any investments.
Other than that, nothing in eve is enforceable.
MD is also only like 30 or 40 regular people. out of everyone in eve. So CCP Doesn't have a lot of incentive to spend time on MD specific things
Remember that 99% of eve never does any player investment and would instantly call it out as a scam, regardless of collateral. |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 23:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
..Alex, I agree that there are 30-40 active MD posters. But there are a ton of lurker a that try to glean some useful information from these forums.
I've been trying to think of a way to implement the same consequences that a real person would face should he commit fraud. But even in real life there is little enforcement. A person can rack up hundreds of thousands of debt and declare bankruptcy. That person might even get the chance to acquire more debt after a few years.
|
Claire Coffee
Coffee Inc
85
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 01:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:But even in real life there is little enforcement. A person can rack up hundreds of thousands of debt and declare bankruptcy. That person might even get the chance to acquire more debt after a few years.
Oh it really depends on country of residence. In some countries people are thrown into snake pits 
DRINK COFFEE
Do stupid things Faster with More Energy |
Kazuma Gaterau
Fenrir's Dogs of War
Union 0f Revolution
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 01:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Of the initial proposal of this thread, I do agree with Alex that this won't really actually create any sort of enforcement as people have the ability to adapt to new changes and will find new ways to con. I do agree on the principal ideals though that this acts, and behaves, like a Credit Bureau.
I feel that this should just remain a database for people to look at borrowing track records and not really have any positives or negatives either way. Create a Credit Score database online that shows successful and failed transactions for characters.
I'm sure there will be that one guy that gets his credit sore up really great just so he can default and take the money and run, but let's be real. In the EVE Universe you can do that whenever you want and are at the same risk. Although this provides no actual additional security, it does provide some sort of background check on previous transactions and agreements. I feel this would benefit a few people. Let's say someone in game asks to borrow 500m and promises to pay it back ,you look on the database that other people report in of transactions that are defaulted on. This HAS to be verified with API keys though as anyone can claim anyone failed to uphold their end of the bargain.
tl;dr
Agree on a credit bureau database, but not on perks/negativity actually within game. Just a way to quickly analyze the probability of a scam. |
Callduron
180
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 02:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Oswaldos wrote:Fairly young to the eve trade market and the bond market that goes with it but it seems to me that the best way to add some sort of accountability is to do a little meta gaming and legitimize a persons identity in out of game ways like logging IP/MAC address. Its certainly far from fool proof but its better then nothing. A third party service also has merit but with the ease to recycling toons i assume their would be some prerequisites SP wise before one was even considered reputable for an IPO.
My 2 cents
If I were scamming I'd be prepared to walk down the road and post from the cafe using their wifi and their IP address. Or simply turn my router off and on.
Also very slippery slope. Effectively you're asking CCP to take real life sanctions against people who conduct themselves in-game a certain way. What's more it's a way endorsed and supported by the game company. If you took it further, realising that IP bans don't work so using credit card bans and/or real life address bans you're removing players from Eve for doing something they're allowed to do.
You could set up a third party verification site that audits by IP but then who would regulate you? |
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