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LittleBo Peep
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
   |
Posted - 2013.02.13 07:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
I get that being having a bigger signature radius makes you generally easier to lock and hit, but how does speed come into play when you are attacking in a close orbit at high speeds?
In such a situation, is it usually better to have more speed or a lower signature when trying to avoid damage?
It also seems that speed is better generally to avoid missile damage, but when you are attacking turret ships in a close orbit at high speeds is a higher speed more important than a smaller signature radius?
I've tried to read a bunch of guides talking about the subject, but I'd just like to clarify with my own specific questions. But if anyone can give me any links to pages talking specifically about this... that would also be much appreciated.
BTW, I am a new player and I'm primarily concerned with frigate to frigate combat. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
2326
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 07:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Speed and transversal velocity are inversely related, as per this page.
That is, if you doubled your speed, that has the same effect as keeping the speed constant and halving your sig radius. Or, if you quintupled your sig radius (see: MWDs), it's the same effect as going at 1/5 your speed.
In real combat, though, it is much easier to manipulate your speed and distance than your sig radius (since sig radius can only be changed for the worse by everything but implants and leadership boosters). So, if you want to survive a fight via simply avoiding damage...
- You have to realize this will only ever be effective against a single target. Anyone from farther away will hit you easily.
- Pick a ship with naturally high speed and low sig, plus a tracking bonus, or if possible, missiles. (Minmatar ships and interceptors in general are good choices; I personally prefer the Malediction)
- Fit an afterburner. If possible, supplement your tank with a tracking disruptor.
- Get as close to the target as possible, orbiting them as fast as possible.
- Pew pew pew pew pew!
Good luck!
Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec FW operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
LittleBo Peep
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 08:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Speed and transversal velocity are inversely related, as per this page. That is, if you doubled your speed, that has the same effect as keeping the speed constant and halving your sig radius. Or, if you quintupled your sig radius (see: MWDs), it's the same effect as going at 1/5 your speed. In real combat, though, it is much easier to manipulate your speed and distance than your sig radius (since sig radius can only be changed for the worse by everything but implants and leadership boosters). So, if you want to survive a fight via simply avoiding damage... Fit an afterburner. If possible, supplement your tank with a tracking disruptor.
[/list] Good luck!
Thank you! +1. This is largely what I wanted to know. But I guess where my confusion comes in with the preference of an afterburner over a MWD. The latter still seems like it would be better for speed tanking (since it gives more speed) and you'll be more able to control the range. In my case... I'd like to close and shoot with short-ranged high-tracking guns. So it seems like a MWD would be better for that? Am I mistaken?
I suppose this might be assuming I'm not going to be hit with some sort of warp disruptor too. But I was thinking if I attacked another ship with a MWD and hit them with my scrambler (or if I got really lucky and found someone without a disruptor) then I'd be at least on equal footing and could rely on the other attributes of my ship to win the engagement. Again... is this sound logic? I really don't know as I am an utter and complete noob. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
725
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 08:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
You have to understand the differences between being fast because it's a tactical advantage and being fast to lower incoming damage.
If you want to lower incoming damage coming from turrets you have to orbit and then the whole tracking thing becomes important, overall tracking is based on 3 things; range (if outside optimal), angular velocity (force yourself to not learn to use "transversal", that's the wrong one) and turret size vs target size. So if you use your MWD your sig blooms up making it easier for bigger guns to hit you but also your max speed goes up so if you're close to max speed your extra speed outweighs the sig bloom meaning you get hit for less. But if you're still slow (you just hit your mwd and haven't gotten up to speed yet, or perhaps you bumped into something) or if you're not orbiting but move straight into or away from those guns (radial velocity) then they'll hit you hard.
Against missiles your vector doesn't matter and it only takes speed vs sig radius into account and it's the same thing, if you hit MWD and are up to speed then you lower incoming damage for the same reason; your increased speed outweighs the sig bloom but again; if you have mwd running and for whatever reason are still moving slow it's going to hurt.
Now realise that the speed vs sig bloom does ofcourse not exist for AB, there you only get a speed increase and because of that the mitigating effect is a lot more to a point where it just becomes silly (in the right situation). Thing is ofcourse that fitting AB or MWD is also a tactical choice but that's what you have to decide; do you want the amazing damage mitigation from the AB or do you want to be able to get in or out of trouble real fast...
Note that some ships (mostly frigates) solve this problem by fitting both MWD as AB, it's called dual prop.
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
LittleBo Peep
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 08:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:do you want the amazing damage mitigation from the AB or do you want to be able to get in or out of trouble real fast...
I think I want the latter. 
Anyway.... thank you very much! Your post really put things into the terms I was looking for. Also... I'm hoping to get all the skills I need to have a stable cap for my MWD -- so, hopefully, I won't ever get caught moving too slowly while it's firing up. I'm hoping to develop a very in-your-face style of engagement where I move in close very quickly, orbit at high speed, and then use high-tracking autocannons to PEW PEW my opponents until they explode. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
725
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 08:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
LittleBo Peep wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:do you want the amazing damage mitigation from the AB or do you want to be able to get in or out of trouble real fast... I think I want the latter. Anyway.... thank you very much! Your post really put things into the terms I was looking for. Also... I'm hoping to get all the skills I need to have a stable cap for my MWD -- so, hopefully, I won't ever get caught moving too slowly while it's firing up. I'm hoping to develop a very in-your-face style of engagement where I move in close very quickly, orbit at high speed, and then use high-tracking autocannons to PEW PEW my opponents until they explode.
Outside frigates there aren't many ships that can make a MWD stable, also MWD gets disabled by scramblers (not long range point) and smart PVPers will fit exactly that so if your idea is to get close and personal then MWD might put you in trouble (which is why many frigs dual prop). Generally there's two ways of doing things in a frigate;
1) within scram range while running AB
2) outside scram range (but within point range obviously) running MWD, called kiting and preferably aided by damps or TDs
Also; running AB (and thus being within scram range) means you're committed to the fight, if stuff is about to go wrong for whatever reason you can't (or at least not that easily) GTFO. MWD kiters can disengage at will (assuming they have the speed advantage). Because PVP is hardly ever a clean 1v1 but mostly you trying to take on 4-5 people at a time (by separating them) you want to be able to get the hell out.
Fun fact; these days Minmatar has mediocre kiting frigs compared to most others :P
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
LittleBo Peep
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 08:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:Generally there's two ways of doing things in a frigate;
1) within scram range while running AB
2) outside scram range (but within point range obviously) running MWD, called kiting and preferably aided by damps or TDs
That made too much sense and now I feel like and idiot. 
Anyway, +1 for you! Thanks again! This post was actually very helpful and will be causing me to reopen my EFT. |
Orlacc
232
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 16:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
As mentioned the downside of MWD is it makes your frig sig big like a BS... |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
2330
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 17:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:As mentioned the downside of MWD is it makes your frig sig big like a BS...
Well, not quite BS, but rather that of a very big (and shield tanked) crusier, like the Moa. Very easy to hit.
Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec FW operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Pinaculus
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
213
|
Posted - 2013.02.13 22:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
LittleBo Peep wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:Generally there's two ways of doing things in a frigate;
1) within scram range while running AB
2) outside scram range (but within point range obviously) running MWD, called kiting and preferably aided by damps or TDs
That made too much sense and now I feel like an idiot. Anyway, +1 for you! Thanks again! This post was actually very helpful and will be causing me to reopen my EFT.
3) Using MWD to get within scram range
4) Using an AB + Nano to kite ships with just an AB at Disrupter range
5) Using an AB on a kinda fast ship to stay inside scram range, but at the edge of your opponent's optimal (Scram Kiting)
I'm sure there's more styles of range control that haven't been mentioned, or that I've never heard of.
I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
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