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Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Exiliar Syndicate
42
   |
Posted - 2013.02.15 14:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings.
I would like to ask the community but mainly the GM's, if abandoning 100-200 cheap drones around low sec gate is an exploit or not?
I submitted petition with specific system and specific alliance/corps doing that, but response I received said:
'We'll investigate and take action as appropriate according to the EVE Online End Users License Agreement and Terms of Service. Please bear in mind that any action that may or may not be taken against any reported pilot may not be discussed with a third party.' I would like to state I dont want to discuss the petition, but I really wonder if its an exploit or not, since the response from GM basically did not state YES neither NO.
Please keep this serious, I did not loose any ship to this, I am not whining, I lived more than 50% of my eve live in 0.0 as well as low sec etc-no trolls and offences please.
I just think this game tactic should be treated as an exploited, as it causes server lag and its very dishonest. Skilled players know how to decloak a ship even without popping drones everywhere.
tl;dr Is abandoning load of drones at gate an exploit or not? Should it be reported or no?
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
581
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 14:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
USES SEARCH!
"Also, your boobs  " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
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IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Wolfsbrigade
Lost Obsession
319
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 14:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Whether it is or isn't an exploit doesn't really matter, just comes down to who answers the petition as there doesn't seem to be a consensus.
If someone you don't like does it: Report it and hope whoever answers the petition sides with you.
If you want to do it: Go for it and hope that whoever answers the petition sides with you. |
Skorpynekomimi
433
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 14:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
IIRC, it WAS declared that piles of junk around lowsec gates to decloak you was an exploit, at one point. |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Exiliar Syndicate
42
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 14:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:IIRC, it WAS declared that piles of junk around lowsec gates to decloak you was an exploit, at one point.
I think so as well, but cant find it anywhere official.  |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
570
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 14:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zakarumit CZ wrote:I just think this game tactic should be treated as an exploited, as it causes server lag and its very dishonest.
Which Eve is all about.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Officer Nyota Uhura
308
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 14:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
So... what did you lose? Maybe you should learn how to cope outside hi-sec before venturing into low and null. That way you wouldn't need to come here to whine about your loss... |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
14075
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 15:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Last I heard was if it caused lag, then it was an exploit. But it really depends upon the GM you get and how many drones there are.
There doesn't seem to be a fixed rule about this. AFAIK
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Wolfsbrigade
Lost Obsession
320
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 15:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Skorpynekomimi wrote:IIRC, it WAS declared that piles of junk around lowsec gates to decloak you was an exploit, at one point.
I can't post petition responses as per forum rules but my experience has only ever been that it was not an exploit. Although I've heard of many cases where it was deemed an exploit. I've also heard of a clause that said it was fine up until the point where it caused lag, which is impossibly vague. |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
R O G U E
227
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 15:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
if folks are doing to cause lag then its an exploit but i see no problme with useing them to decloak folks trying to escape a campe, think its a pretty dam good idea. although i would rather see some sort of dedicated ship module or ship that specialises in decloaking ships |
Lexmana
900
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 15:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
I am pretty sure it is not an exploit as long it is not done to cause lag. |
Lykouleon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
648
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 15:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
The forum 'search' thing is there for a reason.
Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD
Also, your boobs :o --áCCP Eterne, 2012.11.05 14:50 |
Shirley Serious
The Khanid Sisters of Athra
24
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 15:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Officer Nyota Uhura wrote:So... what did you lose? Maybe you should learn how to cope outside hi-sec before venturing into low and null. That way you wouldn't need to come here to whine about your loss...
How would he learn how to cope in low/null sec, without leaving highsec ?
or is this one of those Zen things ? |
Jaden Li
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 15:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:USES SEARCH!
lol....I think I've started something here... |
Othran
Route One
450
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 17:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Its not an exploit.
Nor is anchoring 200+ bubbles which causes WAY more client-side lag.
As long as you are doing it for (and I quote) "a strategic reason" then its fine. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2164
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 17:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Awww...Someones cloaky hauler gotted decloaked and shotted.
Show us on the ship doll where the bad lowsec men touched your Viator.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Shamus O'Reilly
Gungnirs' Point
I Know Right
83
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 18:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Last I heard was if it caused lag, then it was an exploit. But it really depends upon the GM you get and how many drones there are.
There doesn't seem to be a fixed rule about this. AFAIK
Last i heard if it force decloaks you upon entry and is NOT a piloted ship it is considered exploit. This involves canspams and the such. Doesnt matter to me though. If it is pew it is pew to me  |
Abrazzar
793
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 18:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's a grey area, which means you might get out fine or you end up with a hammer to the back of your head.
Mining Overhaul
Nothing changed since 2008. |
Wodensun
ZeroSec
35
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 18:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
INb4LOCK
Posting GM correspondence on eve-o forums is not allowed. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
355
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 18:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well, they outlawed can art at gates because of lag and so on, dunno why this wouldn't be considered the same thing if it is lag inducing.
( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
14077
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 18:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:Mag's wrote:Last I heard was if it caused lag, then it was an exploit. But it really depends upon the GM you get and how many drones there are.
There doesn't seem to be a fixed rule about this. AFAIK Last i heard if it force decloaks you upon entry and is NOT a piloted ship it is considered exploit. This involves canspams and the such. Doesnt matter to me though. If it is pew it is pew to me That may be true, although I have to say it's the first I've heard of it.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2720
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 21:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1555366&page=1#4
GM Hormonia wrote:Normally I would direct anyone with specific question to our petition system. However, we get this question a lot and a large part of our players seem to think that this is an exploit; thus let me answer this question as clear as possible:
No, this is not an exploit and is fully allowed.
Using debris to decloak ships is a perfectly valid strategy. You can use cans, drones, and any other object that decloaks a ship. This is simply a clever use of normal game mechanics.
The Exception: The only thing you may not do is deploy so much debris that it causes lag.
How much debris will cause lag? Well, there is no hard answer for that as this is highly dependent on too many factors to formulate a definition that can always be applied. Common sense will need to be applied (and GMs have certain protocols to use to determine if it causes lag or not, to make sure that all GMs use the same benchmark).
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard
Imperium Directive
131
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 22:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'm going to post below Ruby because I read the damned thread and it is my right to post. But really there's nothing more to say. Except Mags was right and a few other people were wrong, I guess that can be added.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
572
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 22:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1555366&page=1#4 GM Hormonia wrote:Normally I would direct anyone with specific question to our petition system. However, we get this question a lot and a large part of our players seem to think that this is an exploit; thus let me answer this question as clear as possible:
No, this is not an exploit and is fully allowed.
Using debris to decloak ships is a perfectly valid strategy. You can use cans, drones, and any other object that decloaks a ship. This is simply a clever use of normal game mechanics.
The Exception: The only thing you may not do is deploy so much debris that it causes lag.
How much debris will cause lag? Well, there is no hard answer for that as this is highly dependent on too many factors to formulate a definition that can always be applied. Common sense will need to be applied (and GMs have certain protocols to use to determine if it causes lag or not, to make sure that all GMs use the same benchmark). I'm just going to leave this here...
Short answer: depends on who answers your petition and his mood.
Quite Eve'ish to me.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Generals4
Liandri Covenant
1723
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 22:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1555366&page=1#4 GM Hormonia wrote:Normally I would direct anyone with specific question to our petition system. However, we get this question a lot and a large part of our players seem to think that this is an exploit; thus let me answer this question as clear as possible:
No, this is not an exploit and is fully allowed.
Using debris to decloak ships is a perfectly valid strategy. You can use cans, drones, and any other object that decloaks a ship. This is simply a clever use of normal game mechanics.
The Exception: The only thing you may not do is deploy so much debris that it causes lag.
How much debris will cause lag? Well, there is no hard answer for that as this is highly dependent on too many factors to formulate a definition that can always be applied. Common sense will need to be applied (and GMs have certain protocols to use to determine if it causes lag or not, to make sure that all GMs use the same benchmark). I'm just going to leave this here...
Why they didn't share that "benchmark" with the community is beyond me. They are litterally saying something is ok up to a certain point without defining that point.
-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3562
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 22:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1555366&page=1#4 GM Hormonia wrote:Normally I would direct anyone with specific question to our petition system. However, we get this question a lot and a large part of our players seem to think that this is an exploit; thus let me answer this question as clear as possible:
No, this is not an exploit and is fully allowed.
Using debris to decloak ships is a perfectly valid strategy. You can use cans, drones, and any other object that decloaks a ship. This is simply a clever use of normal game mechanics.
The Exception: The only thing you may not do is deploy so much debris that it causes lag.
How much debris will cause lag? Well, there is no hard answer for that as this is highly dependent on too many factors to formulate a definition that can always be applied. Common sense will need to be applied (and GMs have certain protocols to use to determine if it causes lag or not, to make sure that all GMs use the same benchmark). I'm just going to leave this here...
Yeah, it's a little tricky.
I'll tell you the rule of thumb I always use, and seems to work, but it is highly subjective on my part.
Generally it seems if no more than 5 drones per ship present (in the camp) are set adrift (or cans, whatever) you are okay. But if you go much beyond that number it becomes increasingly more likely that you can get nailed for it.
So 10 ships present "might" get away with 50 drones etc. abandoned around the gate... but anything beyond that is getting pretty iffy.
I have litlte doubt there are wildly varying exceptions to this though.
Thanks for that quote.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Exiliar Syndicate
42
|
Posted - 2013.02.15 23:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Thanks for all good answers, I hoped there might be something saying what causes lag and what not but seems like it really depends on GM and situation.
In my situation it was roughly 100-200 abandoned drones and it caused grid to load after jump obivously slower-about 2-3s compared to not-drone-spammed gate.
Anyway, my opinion is decloak should be performed by 'more human interaction' than jettisoning load of garbage around. We have interceptors, we can assign drones, we have MWDs and so, right?
Also I am kinda said for people that are obviously trolling or they did not even read my OP, which is clearly saying I did not loose anything to this and I am not whining. I was just curious. |
Dark Drifter
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
64
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 00:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
IT IS AN EXPLOIT.
CCP did state that intentionally abandoning assets on any grid with the intention of causing LAG (in this case grid load lag, to get easy kills)
so following instances are considered exploits:
-abandoning drones rookie ships on gates.
-jettisoning excess shuttles on stations (and grid) "for edd"
-to many cans in belts
having 100 bubbles on a gate in null sec is however not an exploit |
Corey Fumimasa
Royal Caldari Imperial Guard
Imperium Directive
131
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 01:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dark Drifter wrote:IT IS AN EXPLOIT.
CCP did state that intentionally abandoning assets on any grid with the intention of causing LAG (in this case grid load lag, to get easy kills)
so following instances are considered exploits:
-abandoning drones rookie ships on gates.
-jettisoning excess shuttles on stations (and grid) "for edd"
-to many cans in belts
having 100 bubbles on a gate in null sec is however not an exploit
Its only a problem if there is lag, the DM's have some mysterious lagometer that they all use. And every node is a bit different. By their definition the number of drones or crap is not the issue, its the lag caused that makes something problematic. So dump drones until it gets laggy, then blast a few of them.
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
80
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 03:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'm confused, an exploit isn't the same as an achievement?
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