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J'Poll
The Fiction Factory Tribal Band
1886
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 13:32:00 -
[61] - Quote
Miss Spent Youth wrote:J'Poll wrote:Post 4 = whine why falloff is even in game. Post 5 = whine that visuals don't matter. If you play EVE on your overview, you are doing it wrong. 3D really matters. Post 35 = again whining why CCP made falloff in game. And of course basically you are ignoring or classing all the people who give solid advice on yoru thread and many others as trolls I think you will get very far in EVE (and this line should be taken with a bucket full of sarcasm). Let me see. English is not your first language so you fail to understand what a whine is and what is discussion and query. Only two have trolled in this post and you are one of them. I have not got into any disputes with anyone else. Now, Crazy Dutch Guy, on yer bike! Yet you started it.
In my first post here I just gave you a short list of other things that are incorrect according to reality. But this isn't reality, it's a game and games tend to alter stuff so that it suits better in the game. So falloff, look up what it does and just agree that CCP implemented it cause they needed it for the sake of a good game.
No instead you started bitching about trolling, and if you want real trolling...I can give you it, but given that I just got released again by CCP I'm playing nice.
But none of my post are trolling post....at least not intended or even close to it IMO
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Miss Spent Youth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 13:46:00 -
[62] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Miss Spent Youth wrote:J'Poll wrote:Post 4 = whine why falloff is even in game. Post 5 = whine that visuals don't matter. If you play EVE on your overview, you are doing it wrong. 3D really matters. Post 35 = again whining why CCP made falloff in game. And of course basically you are ignoring or classing all the people who give solid advice on yoru thread and many others as trolls I think you will get very far in EVE (and this line should be taken with a bucket full of sarcasm). Let me see. English is not your first language so you fail to understand what a whine is and what is discussion and query. Only two have trolled in this post and you are one of them. I have not got into any disputes with anyone else. Now, Crazy Dutch Guy, on yer bike! Yet you started it. In my first post here I just gave you a short list of other things that are incorrect according to reality. But this isn't reality, it's a game and games tend to alter stuff so that it suits better in the game. So falloff, look up what it does and just agree that CCP implemented it cause they needed it for the sake of a good game. No instead you started bitching about trolling, and if you want real trolling...I can give you it, but given that I just got released again by CCP I'm playing nice. But none of my post are trolling post....at least not intended or even close to it IMO
You sir, are truly a moron. Bye.
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J'Poll
The Fiction Factory Tribal Band
1886
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 13:48:00 -
[63] - Quote
Miss Spent Youth wrote:J'Poll wrote:Miss Spent Youth wrote:J'Poll wrote:Post 4 = whine why falloff is even in game. Post 5 = whine that visuals don't matter. If you play EVE on your overview, you are doing it wrong. 3D really matters. Post 35 = again whining why CCP made falloff in game. And of course basically you are ignoring or classing all the people who give solid advice on yoru thread and many others as trolls I think you will get very far in EVE (and this line should be taken with a bucket full of sarcasm). Let me see. English is not your first language so you fail to understand what a whine is and what is discussion and query. Only two have trolled in this post and you are one of them. I have not got into any disputes with anyone else. Now, Crazy Dutch Guy, on yer bike! Yet you started it. In my first post here I just gave you a short list of other things that are incorrect according to reality. But this isn't reality, it's a game and games tend to alter stuff so that it suits better in the game. So falloff, look up what it does and just agree that CCP implemented it cause they needed it for the sake of a good game. No instead you started bitching about trolling, and if you want real trolling...I can give you it, but given that I just got released again by CCP I'm playing nice. But none of my post are trolling post....at least not intended or even close to it IMO You sir, are truly a moron. Bye.
And you do know that personal attacks get you banned
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J'Poll
The Fiction Factory Tribal Band
1887
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 15:21:00 -
[64] - Quote
Okay...as you are wondering why falloff exist.
Let's say that EVE is like your idea (bullets go on indefinately, hit/miss chance is only based on tracking).
You are in space.
I orbit you at 500 km (about max default grid size).
Cause my orbit is 500 km this means 1 orbit cycle is 2*radius*pi = 1000*3.14 = 31400 km
Now way my speed is 500 m/s
This means that 1 orbit cycle takes me 31.400 / 0.5 = 62.800 seconds.
Now let's translate that too an angular velocity.
1 orbit cycle is 2*pi radians. 2*pi = 6.28
6.28 / 62.800 second = 0.0001 rad / sec.
So any gun in EVE will just hit you if there is nothing to limit the range of guns/ammo.
Basically, falloff and optimal are just a range limiters for the guns. And buy having 2 separate parameters it means you can build a lot more different possibilities and still have them balanced to each other. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
283
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 15:23:00 -
[65] - Quote
Miss Spent Youth wrote:As I have pointed out I am talking about space where there is no friction or anything else. On earth I agree guns are inaccurate. Guns will still be inaccurate even without an atmosphere. But, of course, you already knew that. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Merouk Baas
559
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 17:04:00 -
[66] - Quote
Here's how "I don't understand" can be a whine, troll, or flame:
I don't understand how you can be so dumb. I don't understand why you didn't think of googling your answers first. I don't understand why the devs didn't implement realistic physics. Thanks for your explanations why the devs didn't implement realistic physics, but I still don't understand how they possibly thought it would be a good idea.
Here's how a question is not a question:
Why are you so dumb? What were you thinking? Why does everybody hate me? Why does this game suck? |
Miss Spent Youth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 17:18:00 -
[67] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Okay...as you are wondering why falloff exist.
Let's say that EVE is like your idea (bullets go on indefinately, hit/miss chance is only based on tracking).
You are in space.
I orbit you at 500 km (about max default grid size).
Cause my orbit is 500 km this means 1 orbit cycle is 2*radius*pi = 1000*3.14 = 31400 km
Now say my speed is 500 m/s
This means that 1 orbit cycle takes me 31.400 / 0.5 = 62.800 seconds.
Now let's translate that too an angular velocity.
1 orbit cycle is 2*pi radians. 2*pi = 6.28
6.28 / 62.800 second = 0.0001 rad / sec.
So any gun in EVE will just hit you if there is nothing to limit the range of guns/ammo.
Basically, falloff and optimal are just a range limiters for the guns. And buy having 2 separate parameters it means you can build a lot more different possibilities and still have them balanced to each other.
EDIT:
And of course because having fleet fights where people will just sit on the edge of grid from each other isn't what normal people playing EVE call exiting.
Thank you
Why could you have not put this at the start I will never understand. *shakes head* |
Merouk Baas
559
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 17:27:00 -
[68] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:So any gun in EVE will just hit you if there is nothing to limit the range of guns/ammo.
No, because the ship is not stabilized, it bobs up and down with the wind, and it's really hard to stabilize a platform so the aiming dot doesn't shake at long distances.
Aiming and hitting things are complicated. The game approximates this with accuracy falloff and tracking. It's not bullet falloff, it's accuracy falloff, as in, if you were to plot the accuracy on a graph the line would fall off the page. It's a game, a simulation that approximates reality.
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Miss Spent Youth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 17:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:Here's how "I don't understand" can be a whine, troll, or flame:
I don't understand how you can be so dumb. I don't understand why you didn't think of googling your answers first. I don't understand why the devs didn't implement realistic physics. Thanks for your explanations why the devs didn't implement realistic physics, but I still don't understand how they possibly thought it would be a good idea.
Here's how a question is not a question:
Why are you so dumb? What were you thinking? Why does everybody hate me? Why does this game suck?
I typed out a long details response and my browser ate it. I cannot be bothered to type it all again.
the TLDR version
That is just plain offensive and uncalled for. I asked a question in here as it is the right place to ask question a new player might have. I do not believe everyone hates me, never have, just yours and J'Polls behaviour is trolling. I never have said this game sucked. Until J'Poll's last post not a single person has explained in clear terms why Fall off is in this game the way it is. In my opinion, both you and J'Poll saw the part of the post I made about how the combat is "click, orbit ad nausium" and went all childish defensive about your precious game. Although I do admit (and the only thing I admit to doing wrong) is that, that was a poor choice of words to describe the combat. I truly am done with this now. You both have your knickers in a bunch and attribute things to me that have not said or done to prove whatever! cya
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Seven Noctis
158
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 17:40:00 -
[70] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote: It's a game, a simulation that approximates reality. *sigh* I really wish people would stop saying that... EVE does not simulate or approximate the reality of anything. Nor does it advertise doing so. It's statements like this that confuse people.
Again, EVE is great at what it does, but simulation is not it (and if it was a simulation, most people getting into silly arguments on these forums would not be here as it would be "too boring" for them). |
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J'Poll
The Fiction Factory Tribal Band
1887
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:05:00 -
[71] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:J'Poll wrote:So any gun in EVE will just hit you if there is nothing to limit the range of guns/ammo. No, because the ship is not stabilized, it bobs up and down with the wind, and it's really hard to stabilize a platform so the aiming dot doesn't shake at long distances. Aiming and hitting things are complicated. The game approximates this with accuracy falloff and tracking. It's not bullet falloff, it's accuracy falloff, as in, if you were to plot the accuracy on a graph the line would fall off the page. It's a game, a simulation that approximates reality.
I was talking about shooting in space. So no wind etc. |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Coldest Sea Sailing The Honda Accord
30
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:09:00 -
[72] - Quote
Miss Spent Youth wrote:
English is not your first language so you fail to understand what a whine is and what is discussion and query.
Only two have trolled in this post and you are one of them. I have not got into any disputes with anyone else.
Now, Crazy Dutch Guy, on yer bike!
Really? Desperately trying to insult someone based on their nationality in a game enjoyed by many around the world... The only person you've succeeded in insulting is yourself m8. gj... I'm listening to-áBj+¦rk, playing EVE, eating fishsticks, and I'm cold....this is immersion gaming. |
J'Poll
The Fiction Factory Tribal Band
1887
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Miss Spent Youth wrote:J'Poll wrote:Okay...as you are wondering why falloff exist.
Let's say that EVE is like your idea (bullets go on indefinately, hit/miss chance is only based on tracking).
You are in space.
I orbit you at 500 km (about max default grid size).
Cause my orbit is 500 km this means 1 orbit cycle is 2*radius*pi = 1000*3.14 = 31400 km
Now say my speed is 500 m/s
This means that 1 orbit cycle takes me 31.400 / 0.5 = 62.800 seconds.
Now let's translate that too an angular velocity.
1 orbit cycle is 2*pi radians. 2*pi = 6.28
6.28 / 62.800 second = 0.0001 rad / sec.
So any gun in EVE will just hit you if there is nothing to limit the range of guns/ammo.
Basically, falloff and optimal are just a range limiters for the guns. And buy having 2 separate parameters it means you can build a lot more different possibilities and still have them balanced to each other.
EDIT:
And of course because having fleet fights where people will just sit on the edge of grid from each other isn't what normal people playing EVE call exiting. Thank you Why could you have not put this at the start I will never understand. *shakes head*
Why not as my first post. Because this is easily found with 1 google search about falloff. |
Slymah
33 RD Rebel Alliance of New Eden
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:21:00 -
[74] - Quote
Miss Spent Youth wrote:Merouk Baas wrote:Here's how "I don't understand" can be a whine, troll, or flame:
I don't understand how you can be so dumb. I don't understand why you didn't think of googling your answers first. I don't understand why the devs didn't implement realistic physics. Thanks for your explanations why the devs didn't implement realistic physics, but I still don't understand how they possibly thought it would be a good idea.
Here's how a question is not a question:
Why are you so dumb? What were you thinking? Why does everybody hate me? Why does this game suck? I typed out a long details response and my browser ate it. I cannot be bothered to type it all again. the TLDR version That is just plain offensive and uncalled for. I asked a question in here as it is the right place to ask question a new player might have. I do not believe everyone hates me, never have, just yours and J'Polls behaviour is trolling. I never have said this game sucked. Until J'Poll's last post not a single person has explained in clear terms why Fall off is in this game the way it is. In my opinion, both you and J'Poll saw the part of the post I made about how the combat is "click, orbit ad nausium" and went all childish defensive about your precious game. Although I do admit (and the only thing I admit to doing wrong) is that, that was a poor choice of words to describe the combat. I truly am done with this now. You both have your knickers in a bunch and attribute things to me that have not said or done to prove whatever!cya
You are extremely annoying.
Your OP was answered by the very first reply. You have kept this stupid thread going by not only misunderstanding how the game works but also argueing against everyones correct answers.
edit: post directed at OP |
Jonah Gravenstein
Gordian Knot Holdings
5744
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 19:31:00 -
[75] - Quote
Miss Spent Youth wrote:But in space there is no friction so why would a shot be inaccurate?
Space is not a true vacuum, if it was then your statement may well be true. Real space contains dust, ice and many other particles of debris, if a projectile encounters such an item then it will suffer from friction and possibly course deviation, albeit a minuscule amount. If a beam of photons encounters such an item it will suffer from refraction or even reflection, albeit a minuscule amount. Gravitational forces would affect both.
That said, Eve is closer to a submarine simulator than a spaceship simulator, in space you would only need initial acceleration to coast a vast distance, in Eve you need constant acceleration to acheive the same distance, get a ship up to maximum velocity and then cut the engines, turn on a MWD and then turn it off, you will quickly come to a stop. Eve space has friction, it also has an up and down.
I am Ohm of Borg, Resistance is Voltage/Current. |
Kalanaja
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 20:13:00 -
[76] - Quote
There is always gravity in space. The idea that gravity suddenly stops working outside the limits of an atmosphere is wrong. Yes, in orbit you don't touch the floor and there is no up or down. That's because the object you would be inside has a small amount of gravity created by it's mass. So it's not zero gravity, it's micro gravity. However, the object itself is being acted on by the gravity of the planet, which in turn is being acted on by the gravity of the sun. The moon is being affected by earth's gravity which is why it doesn't just wonder off into space completely and continues it's monthly spin around the planet. Even the human body has it's own gravity due to mass. It's the most miniscule amount that can probably not ever be measured, and while on a planet would not make the least affect since it is basically beaten down by the massive chunk of dirtball said human is standing on. |
Kalanaja
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 20:15:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Miss Spent Youth wrote:But in space there is no friction so why would a shot be inaccurate? Space is not a true vacuum, if it was then your statement may well be true. Real space contains dust, ice and many other particles of debris, if a projectile encounters such an item then it will suffer from friction and possibly course deviation, albeit a minuscule amount. If a beam of photons encounters such an item it will suffer from refraction or even reflection, albeit a minuscule amount. Gravitational forces affect both, in the case of a beam of photons, you have to look no further than a black hole, where gravity is so powerful that not even light can escape its grip. That said, Eve is closer to a submarine simulator than a spaceship simulator, in space you would only need initial acceleration to coast a vast distance, in Eve you need constant acceleration to acheive the same distance, get a ship up to maximum velocity and then cut the engines, turn on a MWD and then turn it off, you will quickly come to a stop. Eve space has friction, it also has an up and down.
Also this, throughout space there are dust clouds, chunks of rock, ice etc. Even in the space of a solar system there are individual atoms and molecules moving and shifting. While the amount is miniscule they are there. |
Miss Spent Youth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 20:24:00 -
[78] - Quote
Slymah wrote: You are extremely annoying.
Your OP was answered by the very first reply. You have kept this stupid thread going by not only misunderstanding how the game works but also argueing against everyones correct answers.
edit: post directed at OP
Go back read the thread without those blinkers on.
The thread was going along happily enough until J'Poll chimed in with his dismissive aggressive attitude. Then it descended into farce and BS because him and others wanted a fight. Or to put it another way, Trolling. I at no point disagreed with the posters on the first page. I was only seeking knowledge. If you cannot see that then you are as bad as the trolls. |
Miss Spent Youth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 20:40:00 -
[79] - Quote
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Miss Spent Youth wrote:
English is not your first language so you fail to understand what a whine is and what is discussion and query.
Only two have trolled in this post and you are one of them. I have not got into any disputes with anyone else.
Now, Crazy Dutch Guy, on yer bike!
Really? Desperately trying to insult someone based on their nationality in a game enjoyed by many around the world... The only person you've succeeded in insulting is yourself m8. gj...
Click his name and look at his Bio. I was not being racist. the phrase "on yer bike" is a British term for someone to go away as is "sling your hook" He is a "Crazy Dutch guy" and they like cycling alot in the Netherlands I put those things together to make a joke. I am not racist.
ref: "On your bike! Slang. Get lost. Short, according to Bernard Levin in 'The Times' (London), for 'It would be better for you if you get on your bike promptly and pedal fast.'" British English A to Zed by Norman W. Schur:
Citation needed: GÇÿSling your hookGÇÖ is polite way of telling someone to go away. This term has a nautical origin. GÇÿHookGÇÖ was a name given to the shipGÇÖs anchor, and the GÇÖslingGÇÖ was the cradle that housed the anchor. Therefore, to GÇÿsling your hookGÇÖ meant to lift anchor, stow it and sail away.
Every Dutch shed keeps at least a dozen bicycles There are more bicycles than people in the Netherlands. For short distances people prefer biking over driving and waking.. Dutch also take pride in decorating their bikes. Every morning thousands of Dutch school kids will take their bikes an ride a distances up to 20km to get to school. Every season, rain or shine, summer or winter Dutch are seen on their bikes. There is probably nowhere else you will see many women in elegant dresses or skirts pedalling on their bikes |
Forest Archer
Explorer Corps Exhale.
30
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 21:01:00 -
[80] - Quote
Look no one is attacking you but you are being extremely aggressive, and dismissive to the answer to your original question. And the you opersonally attack those trying to help. I would recommend that if you have personal problems with a person you settle it privately. Also I would recommend when you start looking or join a decent corp you do not act like this or your likely to be kick or get a bad reputation. Good luck. Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if your in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. |
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J'Poll
The Fiction Factory Tribal Band
1887
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 21:59:00 -
[81] - Quote
Miss Spent Youth wrote:Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Miss Spent Youth wrote:
English is not your first language so you fail to understand what a whine is and what is discussion and query.
Only two have trolled in this post and you are one of them. I have not got into any disputes with anyone else.
Now, Crazy Dutch Guy, on yer bike!
Really? Desperately trying to insult someone based on their nationality in a game enjoyed by many around the world... The only person you've succeeded in insulting is yourself m8. gj... Click his name and look at his Bio. I was not being racist. the phrase "on yer bike" is a British term for someone to go away as is "sling your hook" He is a "Crazy Dutch guy" and they like cycling alot in the Netherlands I put those things together to make a joke. I am not racist. ref: "On your bike! Slang. Get lost. Short, according to Bernard Levin in 'The Times' (London), for 'It would be better for you if you get on your bike promptly and pedal fast.'" British English A to Zed by Norman W. Schur: Citation needed: GÇÿSling your hookGÇÖ is polite way of telling someone to go away. This term has a nautical origin. GÇÿHookGÇÖ was a name given to the shipGÇÖs anchor, and the GÇÖslingGÇÖ was the cradle that housed the anchor. Therefore, to GÇÿsling your hookGÇÖ meant to lift anchor, stow it and sail away. Every Dutch shed keeps at least a dozen bicyclesThere are more bicycles than people in the Netherlands. For short distances people prefer biking over driving and waking.. Dutch also take pride in decorating their bikes. Every morning thousands of Dutch school kids will take their bikes an ride a distances up to 20km to get to school. Every season, rain or shine, summer or winter Dutch are seen on their bikes. There is probably nowhere else you will see many women in elegant dresses or skirts pedalling on their bikes
No offense taken. I have a thick skin and heard worse remarks about our glorious Dutch.
And I was never trolling. In my first post i just made clear there are a lot more things which arent realistic and that it doesnt have to be because this is a game.
And on the first page (well before I posted) you do disagree with the replies in the way you dont see how that falloff should be in game, without understanding what something is and dies how can you say that it isnt needed.
To most this just comes acros as a new player whining about something he does understand. |
Miss Spent Youth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 22:41:00 -
[82] - Quote
J'Poll wrote: No offense taken. I have a thick skin and heard worse remarks about our glorious Dutch.
And I was never trolling. In my first post i just made clear there are a lot more things which arent realistic and that it doesnt have to be because this is a game.
And on the first page (well before I posted) you do disagree with the replies in the way you dont see how that falloff should be in game, without understanding what something is and dies how can you say that it isnt needed.
To most this just comes acros as a new player whining about something he does understand.
Listen, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I think you are wrong and a troll you think I have committed some crime against the game and are a whiner.
/enough already.
...and for the record, you should not even remotely think I was being racist and taking my remark as being anything other than a friendly poke at the Dutch stereotype. I love the Netherlands and have booked on a cycling trip to Assen in Drenthe for this year. |
J'Poll
The Fiction Factory Tribal Band
1887
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 22:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
Miss Spent Youth wrote:J'Poll wrote: No offense taken. I have a thick skin and heard worse remarks about our glorious Dutch.
And I was never trolling. In my first post i just made clear there are a lot more things which arent realistic and that it doesnt have to be because this is a game.
And on the first page (well before I posted) you do disagree with the replies in the way you dont see how that falloff should be in game, without understanding what something is and dies how can you say that it isnt needed.
To most this just comes acros as a new player whining about something he does understand.
Listen, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I think you are wrong and a troll you think I have committed some crime against the game and are a whiner. /enough already. ...and for the record, you should not even remotely think I was being racist and taking my remark as being anything other than a friendly poke at the Dutch stereotype. I love the Netherlands and have booked on a cycling trip to Assen in Drenthe for this year.
I"m fine by that.
And actually are quite a fan myself to use Dutch stereotypes myself. The only times I hate being a Dutch guy is when I hear some other Dutch pilots try to talk English on comms.
EDIT:
You will love that cycling tour you booked. |
Miss Spent Youth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.16 23:22:00 -
[84] - Quote
Cycling is my passion. I used to be a professional cyclist when I was a youngster in London in the mid 80s as a dispatch rider. Before it became infested with hipsters. I have been coaching my wife into becoming a cyclist too, so after many years of badgering her she is going to come on a cycling holiday with me. Her only stipulation was "no hills". So, as I have always wanted to go to the Netherlands, it seemed the perfect choice. |
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