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Leysritt
The Last Remnant
1
   |
Posted - 2011.10.12 07:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been thinking about ways to mitigate neutral reps during station games.
1. 10 Artillery Maelstroms to alpha strike Logistic ships.
2. ECM ships like falcon to reduce the number of Reps.
3. Bump logistics away from station using a 100mn Microwarpdrive Machariel, Cynabal, etc.
4. Sensor Dampening ships like arazu.
5. Cheap Droneboats with enough ECM drones.
6. Bump target away from station and jettison an orca full of shuttles to trap the target and cause Lag.
7. Use a black ops ship as bait to get target away from station and have it jump before the targets can get close enough to scram.
Anyone got any ideas or tactics? |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
59
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 07:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
8. Get out of highsec and just shoot the damn things. |
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 07:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:8. Get out of highsec and just shoot the damn things.
War Dec aggressors won't come out of highsec to fight us.
They fight with 20 neutral logistic ships repping them. They won't fight us if we bring 50 people.
We get lucky ganks here and there due to client error.
Got any cheap and dirty tactics to help us win and kill them?
|
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1350
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 07:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:8. Get out of highsec and just shoot the damn things. War Dec aggressors won't come out of highsec to fight us. They fight with 20 neutral logistic ships repping them. They won't fight us if we bring 50 people. We get lucky ganks here and there due to client error. Got any cheap and dirty tactics to help us win and kill them?
Like he said: stop living in high-security space, and this won't be a problem. |
|
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
226
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 07:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Moved from "Ships and Modules".
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator
@ccp_spitfire |
|
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
62
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 10:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:8. Get out of highsec and just shoot the damn things. War Dec aggressors won't come out of highsec to fight us.
Then get out of highsec and ignore them (and laugh at them). |
Feligast
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
175
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 10:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
1. Make it 20, the things have damned small sig radii. Have a Huginn for webs to reduce transversal, too.
2. 1 Falcon with Minmatar jammers will lock 2-3 logis out of the fight permanently.
3. Good luck if the logi is moving at all.
4. Probably wouldn't be effective enoiugh, unless you had the combat ships 40-50k off station.
5. Could work, Falcon would be far more effective.
6. Petitionable as an exploit when you drop the shuttles. Don't do this.
7. Obvious bait is obvious, but if it works, bonus. If you can get the logi 20k off the station, with superior firepower, you win. Just primary that logi. |
Tauren Tom
Order of the Silver Dragons
Clone Vat
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 13:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Feligast wrote:
6. Petitionable as an exploit when you drop the shuttles. Don't do this.
^ Like he said, it is petitionable and will result in many tears on your end as you lose said orca pilot to CCP instated bans for intentional lag spike on servers >.> |
Via Shivon
Kriegsmarinewerft
Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 13:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
1. Ignore those PussyWannabePvPlers
2. Get Alts in NPC Corp
3. Move to low/0.0
|
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1699
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 15:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
If you are going to stay in high-security space, then consider this link. |
Proteus Maximus
The Red Exhilez
Chaos Theory Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dock. Don't feed them a single ship. Roam low sec in a rifter for a week and get your pvp on or Play tanks for 7 days. After the first 3 or 4 days most of them loose interest and move on anyway. Best defense is to make them bored.
Eve... It's just a better class of Idiot. |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1729
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Proteus Maximus wrote:Dock. Don't feed them a single ship. Roam low sec in a rifter for a week and get your pvp on or Play tanks for 7 days. After the first 3 or 4 days most of them loose interest and move on anyway. Best defense is to make them bored.
This right here. Unless you make it fun for the enemy, he will lose interest. |
Feligast
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
181
|
Posted - 2011.10.12 19:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Proteus Maximus wrote:Dock. Don't feed them a single ship. Roam low sec in a rifter for a week and get your pvp on or Play tanks for 7 days. After the first 3 or 4 days most of them loose interest and move on anyway. Best defense is to make them bored.
QFT. The above post of mine is only if you're truly interested in fighting. |
Party Lips
Blackened Skies
THE UNTHINKABLES
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 02:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
well if they wont give you any fun then don't waste your time on them. just go do something else like go to low sec FW or just pirate. |
Mocam
EVE University
Ivy League
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 05:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
Via Shivon wrote:1. Ignore those PussyWannabePvPlers
2. Get Alts in NPC Corp
3. Move to low/0.0
4. Pack it into wormholes for a while to mix up some PvE with PvP.
Actually risky environments without the vast emptiness, hours on end of gate/station camps, flying around in a PvP fit ship just to find your target was hot-drop bait. Do the sites while there and see if anyone shows up while you're at it. Yes you'll PvP when it shows up but what shows will rarely be beyond a small teams ability to fight back against. You can make ISK -AND- PvP, just without the lulz PvP factor so prevalent in the other dangerous places.
Oh and nobody can just run a locator agent to find you then simply click the destination and pilot to it then setup out of a near by station. They actually have to go looking for the wormhole you happen to be in and there are no stations in such places to play those docking games at. |
Zoe Alarhun
Drunken Space Irish
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 07:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Go live in low sec. Shoot everything. No neutrals.
Low sec pvp is best pvp. |
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 20:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Since they can dock up at will, just use ECM. Lots and lots of ECM. If they're not fitting to have fun fights no reason you should either. Match races up to their logi, fit it to everything that has spare midslots, go to town. That many nuet logi probably means there aren't too many of them either, so ECM will allow your combat ships to disengage at will if you're good at communicating which tackle needs to be jammed off.
As people have said, denying fun is the best way to end a dec, and ECM is very good at denying fun.
|
DigDoug
Amber Lamps Labs
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 03:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:8. Get out of highsec and just shoot the damn things. War Dec aggressors won't come out of highsec to fight us.
I lol'd and then I stopped caring. Someone hands you the actual best answer, and it's very hard to have something that can be quantified as 'the best' when what is being discussed is just opinion based, and you dismiss it by actually confirming the awesomeness of it.
They won't come out of highsec to fight us. That doesn't sound like much of a war to me then. What's the problem?
|
Ronin Kisho
The Legendary Conquest
THE D0MINION
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 01:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:Since they can dock up at will, just use ECM. Lots and lots of ECM. If they're not fitting to have fun fights no reason you should either. Match races up to their logi, fit it to everything that has spare midslots, go to town. That many nuet logi probably means there aren't too many of them either, so ECM will allow your combat ships to disengage at will if you're good at communicating which tackle needs to be jammed off.
As people have said, denying fun is the best way to end a dec, and ECM is very good at denying fun.
problem with ecm and station campers is if they aggress ecm degresses them and they can dock
haha nvm i misread that.. |
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
19
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 04:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:8. Get out of highsec and just shoot the damn things. War Dec aggressors won't come out of highsec to fight us. They fight with 20 neutral logistic ships repping them. They won't fight us if we bring 50 people. We get lucky ganks here and there due to client error. Got any cheap and dirty tactics to help us win and kill them?
You already got the best advice there is to give. Ignore them and stay out of high-sec, and do your logistics with neutral alts. If people keep giving up kills, boot them for disregarding the order to stay out of high-sec.
The rules in empire space, as they stand, are designed to maximize the opportunities for faggotry and bad fights. The only way to win empire warfare is not to play. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
152
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 04:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
ffs.... does no one know of energy neutralizers????? Fit one or two on each of your ships and neut the damn thing to oblivion while pounding away at your intended target. Problem solved.
"Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one."
~Unknown |
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 07:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
With ACRs, 100mn and a PDS a stabber can bump at 5-6K easy. Only used it on Dreds but it should **** a logi right up on range.... |
george harries
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 10:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Having been in this situation one option would be to get everyone in frigs/destroyers - a load with ecm and the rest fit for gank - but use cheap modules. Get the ecm gang to lock the various DPS ships and then the gank boats attack their high value target(s). You will lose ships but it will hack off the pilots when they lose 100m+ isk ship(s) to your few million.
What about using alts to find where they may mission run, have POS, miners - hitting those targets makes you proactive, at the moment you are responding to them which is just going to play into their tactics and aims.
Failing that stay in station or do something else if you won't go to low/nul sec - they will get bored but also as you get near the end of the war dec they will make mistakes and less will camp station due to boredom so the frig tactic will possibly be more effective as less of their gang turn up.
|
Joshke
Epsilon Inc
STORM.
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 13:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
You don't need to change your life and go to live in low sec, just bait them to low sec and fight there. It can be fun for both sides :) |
Griznatch
Xicron Syndicate
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 15:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
JitaJane wrote:With ACRs, 100mn and a PDS a stabber can bump at 5-6K easy. Only used it on Dreds but it should **** a logi right up on range....
This isnt 100 percent reliable. If theyre moving theyre almost impossible to hit with any apeed and if they arent theyre so small you miss sometimes anyhow even burning straight at them. Stabbers work well for BS bumps, but for bumping cruisers I would recommend a Machariel. |
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 16:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:I've been thinking about ways to mitigate neutral reps during station games.
1. 10 Artillery Maelstroms to alpha strike Logistic ships.
2. ECM ships like falcon to reduce the number of Reps.
3. Bump logistics away from station using a 100mn Microwarpdrive Machariel, Cynabal, etc.
4. Sensor Dampening ships like arazu.
5. Cheap Droneboats with enough ECM drones.
6. Bump target away from station and jettison an orca full of shuttles to trap the target and cause Lag.
7. Use a black ops ship as bait to get target away from station and have it jump before the targets can get close enough to scram.
Anyone got any ideas or tactics?
Re: 1) Suicide ganking logistics ships will get expensive.
Re: 2) ECM on the NEUTRAL logi is aggression and CONCORD will kill your falcon.
Re: 3) Yes
Re: 4) Damps on logi = see 2
Re: 5) Drones aggressing = see 2
Re: 6) Maybe?
Re: 7) Why not just align with your bait ship and warp? Cheaper than risking a BOPs.
Best bets are bumping and baiting.
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
245
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 16:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Princess Bride wrote:Re: 1) Suicide ganking logistics ships will get expensive.
Re: 2) ECM on the NEUTRAL logi is aggression and CONCORD will kill your falcon.
You *do* know that aggression transfers to to logis, right? Seriously, so many people don't understand how this game works.
Here's what you do: Get a ship that can tank his firepower for a substantial amount of time, giving you a couple of minutes to deaggress and dock when you need to. Engage him, and then when the logi start, land a swarm of alpha maels on them. They'll probably be too far away from the fight for him to attempt to rescue them.
Proceed to alpha one logi after another until they manage to get all the alts docked up. If they all stop reps, attempt to kill the main ship until it gets dock.
Troll the hell out of local. |
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 16:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Princess Bride wrote:Re: 1) Suicide ganking logistics ships will get expensive.
Re: 2) ECM on the NEUTRAL logi is aggression and CONCORD will kill your falcon.
You *do* know that aggression transfers to to logis, right? Seriously, so many people don't understand how this game works. Here's what you do: Get a ship that can tank his firepower for a substantial amount of time, giving you a couple of minutes to deaggress and dock when you need to. Engage him, and then when the logi start, land a swarm of alpha maels on them. They'll probably be too far away from the fight for him to attempt to rescue them. Proceed to alpha one logi after another until they manage to get all the alts docked up. If they all stop reps, attempt to kill the main ship until it gets dock. Troll the hell out of local.
Meh, forgot they changed that. Sue me if I haven't played station games in high sec since they did.
But then what's the point of this thread, other than just "How do we counter logistics generally?" |
xenodia
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION
ORPHANS OF EVE
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 17:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:I've been thinking about ways to mitigate neutral reps during station games.
1. 10 Artillery Maelstroms to alpha strike Logistic ships.
2. ECM ships like falcon to reduce the number of Reps.
3. Bump logistics away from station using a 100mn Microwarpdrive Machariel, Cynabal, etc.
4. Sensor Dampening ships like arazu.
5. Cheap Droneboats with enough ECM drones.
6. Bump target away from station and jettison an orca full of shuttles to trap the target and cause Lag.
7. Use a black ops ship as bait to get target away from station and have it jump before the targets can get close enough to scram.
Anyone got any ideas or tactics?
8. Dont fight near a station.
Make the neutral logistics expose themselves at a spot where they cant just dock to escape aggression, and you will find that suddenly the neutral RR problem dissappears. For some reason, all those neutral guardian alts dont seem to want to get aggression flagged without the safety of a station sitting next to them :) |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
246
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 18:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
xenodia wrote:8. Dont fight near a station.
Make the neutral logistics expose themselves at a spot where they cant just dock to escape aggression, and you will find that suddenly the neutral RR problem dissappears. For some reason, all those neutral guardian alts dont seem to want to get aggression flagged without the safety of a station sitting next to them :)
The station jockeys won't fight away from them, though. I've seen whole corps that operate purely by waiting for war targets to come into trade hubs so they can hit them on the undock.
Besides, it's far more satisfying to beat them at their game. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
77
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 19:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
I always get confused about people that are complaining about various station games. If someone won't fight you anywhere other than at a station what exactly is forcing you to fight them at all? |
xenodia
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION
ORPHANS OF EVE
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 19:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:xenodia wrote:8. Dont fight near a station.
Make the neutral logistics expose themselves at a spot where they cant just dock to escape aggression, and you will find that suddenly the neutral RR problem dissappears. For some reason, all those neutral guardian alts dont seem to want to get aggression flagged without the safety of a station sitting next to them :) The station jockeys won't fight away from them, though. I've seen whole corps that operate purely by waiting for war targets to come into trade hubs so they can hit them on the undock. Besides, it's far more satisfying to beat them at their game.
one of the worst tactical mistakes you can make is fighting an enemy on terms that they dictate. If they wont engage away from station, then guess what... they pay for a wardec that they get no joy out of, and will probably end it quickly. Make them choose to either come out of their comfort zone (and safe neutral RR zone) by fighting off grid from stations, or pay for a war that they cant/wont fight.
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
247
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 21:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
xenodia wrote:
one of the worst tactical mistakes you can make is fighting an enemy on terms that they dictate. If they wont engage away from station, then guess what... they pay for a wardec that they get no joy out of, and will probably end it quickly. Make them choose to either come out of their comfort zone (and safe neutral RR zone) by fighting off grid from stations, or pay for a war that they cant/wont fight.
If your enemy sits in the same spot day after day doing the same thing, you are perfectly able to dictate terms. You have all the time you want to plan and execute a trap for the neutral logi.
Passing him by and ignoring him is effective. I just prefer the method of making them regret ever messing with me.
|
Borun Tal
One More Corp
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 22:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
If your enemy sits in the same spot day after day doing the same thing, you are perfectly able to dictate terms. You have all the time you want to plan and execute a trap for the neutral logi.
This. +1 |
Desudes
Federal Defence Union
Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 01:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
The only time I had to deal with neutral RR we just webbed the **** out of the target ship and ate his face off with overheated blasters and ogres, willy-nilly their RR. Go team 1k dps domi's. **** yo reppers.
If the logi are close range, vampire domi them. A dominix will pull 450dps on the primarily while pumping 3-4 neuts into someone while having a huge shield buffer tank. If they are far off: got any Curse pilots? Hell, use sniper HACs if the logi are speed tanking.
Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu? |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 08:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
This whole thread is "I see your neutral logi and raise you an improbable confluence of factors that will somehow make hisec station hugging and hisec PVP, in general, suck less than a crack ***** on a pizzle bender".
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man.
Sun Tzu
|
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 13:32:00 -
[37] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:xenodia wrote:8. Dont fight near a station.
Make the neutral logistics expose themselves at a spot where they cant just dock to escape aggression, and you will find that suddenly the neutral RR problem dissappears. For some reason, all those neutral guardian alts dont seem to want to get aggression flagged without the safety of a station sitting next to them :) The station jockeys won't fight away from them, though. I've seen whole corps that operate purely by waiting for war targets to come into trade hubs so they can hit them on the undock. Besides, it's far more satisfying to beat them at their game.
Than Alpha them is the way to go, while ecm would still work (and need less ships), it would not be anymore their game. Just like not fighting at stations.
Alpha the **** out of them and docking games won-¦t work very well anymore.
New forum, still no automatic double post merge. CCP Excellence.-á
.
Playing the game of life means to pvp. Get used to it or become extinct. |
shal ri
Zanzibar Land
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 22:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
if they wont fight off station then they suck at pvp and u simply just dont have to worry about them any way.
ps low sec is the same way the with ppl not wantin to fight off stations if they do its most likely a blob and u die any way.ofc theres always those rare moments when **** goes ur way. who doesnt like being outnumbered 3 to 1 and kickin enemy fleet ass. |
Via Shivon
Kriegsmarinewerft
Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 08:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
the best tactic would be that ccp fixes this BUGUSING **** = agression for helping, byebye logi  |
Letseatlunch
DSC inc
RED Citizens
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 12:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Leysritt wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:8. Get out of highsec and just shoot the damn things. War Dec aggressors won't come out of highsec to fight us. They fight with 20 neutral logistic ships repping them. They won't fight us if we bring 50 people. Got any cheap and dirty tactics to help us win and kill them?
20 neutral logi? If these battles are happening near gates and stations there is no way to combat that other than bringing your own 20+ neutral logi. If you are an industrial corp just pay them off, its quicker. Unforunately there isn't that magic answer your looking for. The ECM drones would work but not against 20 nuetral logi, same with nuets/nos and damps. Even if it was effect against half of them thats still 10 logi boats to keep their fleet alive long enough to kill you. Not to mention if you spend so much effort combating the logi boats you're not going to be focused on the actual war targets making it easy for them to kill you. |
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