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Necroth
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Posted - 2005.07.26 12:19:00 -
[1]
I dont have any good solution to make enough money to efford cruisers.
I just need to find a cheap solution to have fun in 0.0
I just need something more powerfull than a frig but cheaper than a cruiser.
I just saw that the destroyers could be a good alternative, but it seems that no one are using it to do pvp, why ?
they arent fun to fly ? they are too weak/slow ? they seems to have decent firepower and agility... but i never saw them
in 0.0....
Any fan of the destroyers ?
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General Cane
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Posted - 2005.07.26 12:25:00 -
[2]
Destroyers are supposed to fight back Frigs attacking the bigger Battleship the Destroyer is guarding.
As the only Destroyers available are Tech1, they dont stand a chance against tech2 frigates. Or at least not against more than one elite frigate. And thats the problem. Every tech2 frigate does the job better than a tech1 destroyer.
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.07.26 12:32:00 -
[3]
The T2 frigs may be better, but they aren't as expendable. That's why people use them. Personally, for just messing around in 0.0, I would probably go for a destroyer myself
Free bumpage for all |
wild Ari
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Posted - 2005.07.26 12:32:00 -
[4]
the main problem is, that destroyers are fragile compared to elite frigs.
that compared with a way larger signature and less speed greatly reduces your survivability.
on the other hand a dessie is way cheaper than even the smallest assault frig so loosing one is not much of an issue.
a trasher with 7 280mm artilleries delivers a serious alpha strike. unfortunately after that strike you have to warp out.
and to be honest, when money for a cruiser is an issue - dont PvP.
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Necroth
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Posted - 2005.07.26 12:39:00 -
[5]
ok so, as every players in 0.0 space are using t2 ships, all t1 ships are useless except some cruisers and battleships.
so I only have the choice to fly a EW BB or a plated Thorax ? it sucks...
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Voltron
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Posted - 2005.07.26 12:39:00 -
[6]
use a target painter on your destroyer, you'll chew through inties........assault frigs you're on your own there.
Volt
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W0lverine
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Posted - 2005.07.26 12:42:00 -
[7]
used to be lots of them in 0.0 when they 1st came out
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gfldex
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Posted - 2005.07.26 13:27:00 -
[8]
You need realy nice skills to fit and fly a destroyer. If you got those skills you can buy and fly a AF. Thats it.
A cormorant is nice for gate camps. Fit a 20k scrambler and 3 sensor boosters for super fast tackling. If you wanna be nice fit remote sensor boosters. Every BS pilot will love you.
--
$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.26 13:33:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Voltron
use a target painter on your destroyer, you'll chew through inties........assault frigs you're on your own there.
Volt
not anymore.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.07.26 13:36:00 -
[10]
Because an assault does them oh so much better at the job of taking down other frigs.
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.07.26 13:47:00 -
[11]
personally I love a cormorant. I'd rather fly that over an inty (its more powerfull than an inty, and solo intys think they can take you, then you waste em), and its cheaper than an assault frig (which in very rare situations you can take down, but this is increadibly rare.. like webbing a blaster enyo and orbiting at 7.5 km pounding away for a loooooooong time.)
on a cormorant I normally use..
7x 150mm Railgun II
2x sensorbooster II, web + disrupter
1X MAPC
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.07.26 13:50:00 -
[12]
Destroyers don't have much say in 1v1, but if there are two (or mroe) destroyers they'll simply rip through interceptors (ceptors can't get good transversal on two targets, and focused fire of course).
Assault frigates are the T2 frigate that has the same role as Destroyers (which is one of the reasons I dislike the whole Destroyer concept), and will thus do a much better job than the T1 Destroyer.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Josameto III - Moon 1 |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.26 13:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ithildin
Assault frigates are the T2 frigate that has the same role as Destroyers (which is one of the reasons I dislike the whole Destroyer concept), and will thus do a much better job than the T1 Destroyer.
Actually, IMO assault frigs are technically supposed to be anti cruiser. Look at the path, it goes assault frig-->HACs. And as we all know, HACs are anti-BS cruisers. So hence shouldn't assault frigs be anti-cruiser frigs? The only reason they arent is because they suck.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Arimas Talasko
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Posted - 2005.07.26 13:55:00 -
[14]
Because they are mostly ugly, except for the Catalyst which no one uses since ... well... yeah. They are also paper thin, and with unnamed t1 weapons don't really do a whole lot that AF's can't as has been said before, and aren't really much fun to fly compared to AFs and Inties due to their rather sluggish turning, and it's a pain to hit F1-8 every time you see somebody, and if you load em up with t2 guns then it kind of defeats the purpose of having a super cheap frig killer, since a cruiser will just run at you and demolish you in a second costing you a couple million for no reason. And there's nothing really glamorous in flying a destroyer. And usually cruisers and BS do a better job at anti frig, not to mention elite frigs. So that's why I think no-one really uses Destroyers all that often, especially the Catalyst which really does look cool. I guess the min one looks okay too, and the amarr one, well, it's got all these black splotches all over it where the guns are supposed to be... and the caldari one, well, it's caldari so that means it's ugly
Supremacy Keepin it Real |
Dirty Knave
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Posted - 2005.07.26 13:56:00 -
[15]
I PVP in my Thrasher destroyer once in a while. They can pop t1 frigs in 1 volley but if you come up against a ceptor or an AF your done. Or anything bigger except maybe a BS because I dont know how much they could hit you... very little.
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Loka
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Posted - 2005.07.26 14:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dirty Knave
I PVP in my Thrasher destroyer once in a while. They can pop t1 frigs in 1 volley but if you come up against a ceptor or an AF your done. Or anything bigger except maybe a BS because I dont know how much they could hit you... very little.
Never missed a DD in my BS  . I dunno why, but DD die like flys to large guns.
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Dead or Alive
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.07.26 15:11:00 -
[17]
Combining the mobility of a Cruiser with the durability and firepower of a Frigate, the Destroyer provides the worst aspects of both into one battle losing package.
Seriously, the Thrasher has a 3/4 the sig radius of the Stabber, for only 1/6 the grid and half the CPU. It dies to quickly, for the too little damage it does to be a practical warship. That's pretty much true for all of the DDs.
Harry Voyager
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FalloutBoy
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Posted - 2005.07.26 15:19:00 -
[18]
if I didn't want to fly a AF at the time and was looking for something cheap an expendable a cruiser fits the job alot better
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Ghey Iislandur
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Posted - 2005.07.26 15:30:00 -
[19]
I think the key with the destroyer has already been mentioned. Used en masse, they can be quite nasty. Certainly nastier than any small T1 frigate.
While 7 x 280mm aren't going to bring down a BS on their own, 5-10 destroyers with this setup make one hell of a cheap raiding force to use behind enenmy lines shooting up transports, barges, frigates and the like.
______________________________________________
Won't you give to the Minmatar Orphans of War Charities? With your generous donation of ore or isk, we can reunite a Minmatar slave with his family. |
dabster
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Posted - 2005.07.26 16:30:00 -
[20]
I'd love to see the ceptor who survives engaging my Thrasher, hasn't happened yet :/
They only cost 1/10th of a ceptor aswell.
But ofc it sure wouldnt hurt if they got a radius cut in half and a little more speed.
___________________________
Chicks dig Brutor's |
Cycerin Strikebeam
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Posted - 2005.07.26 17:05:00 -
[21]
IMO the coercer is one of the prettiest ships in game atm.
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Linavin
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Posted - 2005.07.26 17:05:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Linavin on 26/07/2005 17:05:52
Edited by: Linavin on 26/07/2005 17:04:55
The problem is that they're argueably the least survivable ship class in the whole game. Mainly because they don't have the speed to compensate for their low hps, unlike frigs.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.26 17:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Actually, IMO assault frigs are technically supposed to be anti cruiser. Look at the path, it goes assault frig-->HACs. And as we all know, HACs are anti-BS cruisers. So hence shouldn't assault frigs be anti-cruiser frigs? The only reason they arent is because they suck.
Exactly.
Tech 1 cruisers walk over af's which cost up to 3-4x more.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.26 17:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cycerin Strikebeam
IMO the coercer is one of the prettiest ships in game atm.
It used to be back in the exodus test. It was nice and shiny but then they nerfed the texture/shader
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.07.26 17:16:00 -
[25]
I find Speed and Handling of a Catalyst to be good enough for survivablity. The Sig Radius however is not. Besides, it is supposed to be an Anti-Frig, but Frigs packs small turrets and missiles, and those hits a Destroyer pretty much everytime. I havn't put one up against a battleship, and I think they might be fairly survivable, but that is not where you wanna use your Destroyer anyhow.
The way I see it, they need to be used in great numbers (where sacrifice is part of the tactic) or simply sneak around bigger ships in a fleet battle to surprize interceptors and drones. I suppose they are too specialized and not good enough at what they specialize in.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.07.26 17:18:00 -
[26]
I like the trashers cap
enough to run some EW
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Grandorr
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Posted - 2005.07.26 17:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Arimas Talasko
and it's a pain to hit F1-8 every time you see somebody
Pick up a nostromo speedpad, makes you wonder why one uses the function keys for eve. 1 press all the guns are selected and firing, starmap, scanner, all at a press of a button. Works wonders on other games too. Takes a bit of time to get your profile mapped out for the particular game, but once you do, it makes those complicated alt+key combinations easy to do. 
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Black January
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Posted - 2005.07.26 17:49:00 -
[28]
I <3 my thrasher. I really do. Inties just die. Horribly. AFs can usualy survive the first two vollies, but they never survive the 3rd. To top it all off, no one ever makes you primary target, (because it's a destroyer, I mean they suck, right?) so you can sit there doing cruiser damage with impunity from a 1.2m isk platforum.
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Hideki Shenzai
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Posted - 2005.07.26 18:17:00 -
[29]
The key to destroyers has been mentioned - find a buddy. They are only good for soloing in rare situations, like dumb inty pilots or frig pilots.
The Cormorant has a nice set of midslots on a frig hull. You can make a nice little EW boat for your tackling buddy and bring some decent firepower.
The Catalyst has rocking damage with a rack of blasters, but it's the spacefaring equivalent of a loincloth. I bet a Velator has more armor than that thing.
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Cycerin Strikebeam
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Posted - 2005.07.26 18:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Cycerin Strikebeam
IMO the coercer is one of the prettiest ships in game atm.
It used to be back in the exodus test. It was nice and shiny but then they nerfed the texture/shader
You sssssilly boy, the beuty is in its pretty lines. 
I think that destroyers should be fitted to be inexpensive and fun to fly. The Catalyst is actually pretty cool with 8 ions because of the falloff bonus. The trasher cripples any similar-or-smaller ship with its mighty 280mm salvoes. The coercer owns with 400mm plate and dual light pulse. The cormorant can hit further out than any other dessie, backed up by its ECM systems.
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Alerce
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Posted - 2005.07.26 19:02:00 -
[31]
Cormorant only got 1 low slot, so cant even fit 2 warp stabs.
So why even bother for a slow like that one to pvp in it?
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Arimas Talasko
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Posted - 2005.07.26 19:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Alerce
Cormorant only got 1 low slot, so cant even fit 2 warp stabs.
So why even bother for a slow like that one to pvp in it?
!?
Supremacy Keepin it Real |
Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.07.26 19:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: lythos miralbar
personally I love a cormorant. I'd rather fly that over an inty (its more powerfull than an inty, and solo intys think they can take you, then you waste em), and its cheaper than an assault frig (which in very rare situations you can take down, but this is increadibly rare.. like webbing a blaster enyo and orbiting at 7.5 km pounding away for a loooooooong time.)
on a cormorant I normally use..
7x 150mm Railgun II
2x sensorbooster II, web + disrupter
1X MAPC
Man whats the point in tech II fittings on a shipyou choose for its cheapness? 
- Gob (also known as Admiral Goberius) |
Serret
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Posted - 2005.07.26 19:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Alerce
Cormorant only got 1 low slot, so cant even fit 2 warp stabs.
So why even bother for a slow like that one to pvp in it?
Cormorant got only 7 turret slots, so why even bother to run?
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.26 19:35:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Black January
I <3 my thrasher. I really do. Inties just die. Horribly. AFs can usualy survive the first two vollies, but they never survive the 3rd. To top it all off, no one ever makes you primary target, (because it's a destroyer, I mean they suck, right?) so you can sit there doing cruiser damage with impunity from a 1.2m isk platforum.
Um you dont do cruiser damage, in fact most inties outdamage you. A plate inty (which almost all are nowadays) will utterly own a destroyer.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Al Capown
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Posted - 2005.07.26 21:54:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Al Capown on 26/07/2005 21:55:36
Edited by: Al Capown on 26/07/2005 21:54:54
has anyone tries putting 7 125mm railgun II's on them yet? that would be NASTY
(Edit)nevermind i didnt read the whole forum
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Flash Landsraad
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Posted - 2005.07.26 21:57:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Necroth
ok so, as every players in 0.0 space are using t2 ships, all t1 ships are useless except some cruisers and battleships.
You couldn't be more far from the truth in my opinion. T1 frigates are great fun to fly into 0.0 for an arse around - you just have to choose your targets.
I usually fly an inty - but I regularly take punishers/rifters/vigils into 0.0 for a bit of fun.
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Aneskha
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Posted - 2005.07.26 23:08:00 -
[38]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 26/07/2005 19:36:46
Originally by: Black January
I <3 my thrasher. I really do. Inties just die. Horribly. AFs can usualy survive the first two vollies, but they never survive the 3rd. To top it all off, no one ever makes you primary target, (because it's a destroyer, I mean they suck, right?) so you can sit there doing cruiser damage with impunity from a 1.2m isk platforum.
Um you dont do cruiser damage, in fact most inties outdamage you. A plate inty (which almost all are nowadays) will utterly own a destroyer.
Exactly. Besides, most asault frigs will wtfpwn you before you get that third salvo off. You'll probably already be into structure when your guns are ready to fire the second volley.
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.07.26 23:23:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Flash Landsraad
Originally by: Necroth
ok so, as every players in 0.0 space are using t2 ships, all t1 ships are useless except some cruisers and battleships.
You couldn't be more far from the truth in my opinion. T1 frigates are great fun to fly into 0.0 for an arse around - you just have to choose your targets.
I usually fly an inty - but I regularly take punishers/rifters/vigils into 0.0 for a bit of fun.
T1 frigs/destroyers in 0.0 are great. All you've got to worry about is the payment for a new clone 
Free bumpage for all |
Ice Foxy
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Posted - 2005.07.26 23:27:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Necroth
I just saw that the destroyers could be a good alternative, but it seems that no one are using it to do pvp, why ?
They are weekly armoured and slow, a better alternative is a HAS which are better armoured and suffer no lame rof penalty.
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.27 01:46:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Alerce
Cormorant only got 1 low slot, so cant even fit 2 warp stabs.
So why even bother for a slow like that one to pvp in it?
Hm.. Why do you need WCS on Tech 1 frigate ?
Sarcasm ?
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Christopher Scott
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Posted - 2005.07.27 02:36:00 -
[42]
The biggest reason nobody flew destroyers: their survivability towards cruise missiles was terrible. This was pre-missile patch.
Now, their firepower and survivability fits nicely between a frigate and cruiser. They will start to be flown more often, methinks.
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Voltron
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Posted - 2005.07.27 03:59:00 -
[43]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Voltron
use a target painter on your destroyer, you'll chew through inties........assault frigs you're on your own there.
Volt
not anymore.
what'd I miss this time? they re-balance the painters?
Volt
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.27 04:41:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Voltron
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Voltron
use a target painter on your destroyer, you'll chew through inties........assault frigs you're on your own there.
Volt
not anymore.
what'd I miss this time? they re-balance the painters?
Volt
Yeah, there isnt the uber bug where painting a mwding inty = sig of a moon. So you cant get like 7x wreckings.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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slothe
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Posted - 2005.07.27 08:06:00 -
[45]
Our corp sometimes flies a cormorant wolfpack, a group of 6 + destroyers. they kick ass in a team.
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
lordmix >... i helped a corp m8 pull it off |
Sun Ra
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Posted - 2005.07.27 08:07:00 -
[46]
When they removed duel oversized ab that killed the thrasger for me
/me misses 5k m/s thrasher
We're coming for you |
Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.07.27 08:12:00 -
[47]
Destroyers:
1) T1 frig-level damage
2) T1 frig-level tank
3) T1 cruiser-level speed
The worst characteristics of two ship classes combined to make a craptastic light weapons platform with no redeeming characteristics and no role not filled better by other ships.
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Cadman Weyland
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Posted - 2005.07.27 08:14:00 -
[48]
Originally by: slothe
Our corp sometimes flies a cormorant wolfpack, a group of 6 + destroyers. they kick ass in a team.
Indeed, Hacs and BS crumple fast
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear |
Fred0
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Posted - 2005.07.27 08:20:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Alerce
Cormorant only got 1 low slot, so cant even fit 2 warp stabs.
So why even bother for a slow like that one to pvp in it?
The purpose of pvp is not to run. The purpose of pvp is to kill your enemy. And if you fit wcs you've limited your chance of winning because you are too lazy to scout properly.
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Geoff W
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Posted - 2005.07.27 08:38:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sun Ra
When they removed duel oversized ab that killed the thrasger for me
/me misses 5k m/s thrasher
didn't they introduce destoryers in Exodus, the same time they took out dual MWD/AB ?
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Alerce
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Posted - 2005.07.27 11:10:00 -
[51]
With such a ship, you should be doing hit and runs, then again the ship is just too slow, so you will be scrambled very often.
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Cycerin Strikebeam
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Posted - 2005.07.27 11:13:00 -
[52]
I would love to see tech 2 dessies with no stupid ROF penalty, that can actually give ass frigs and cruisers a decent fight.
/me drools thinking of a gallente dessie with 15 light drones 
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.07.27 14:23:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Destroyers:
1) T1 frig-level damage
2) T1 frig-level tank
3) T1 cruiser-level speed
The worst characteristics of two ship classes combined to make a craptastic light weapons platform with no redeeming characteristics and no role not filled better by other ships.
They have twice the damage of a T1 frigate (6 guns as opposed to 3, note how 25% RoF penalty on 8 guns makes them equivalent of 6) and they don't cost all that much. The only thing bad about them is that they have a slightly too large sig radius. Speed is Ok as they aren't meant to go tackle anyone - they're frigate control and they outrange and out-track frigates.
As for AF, they still need their second frigate skill bonus...
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Josameto III - Moon 1 |
Sedory Darklight
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Posted - 2005.07.27 14:25:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Destroyers:
1) T1 frig-level damage
2) T1 frig-level tank
3) T1 cruiser-level speed
The worst characteristics of two ship classes combined to make a craptastic light weapons platform with no redeeming characteristics and no role not filled better by other ships.
Why not use T2 weapons on it? If you corp can make them, they're likely cheap for those in the corp. Ya don't tank, you gank.
--------------------
-Oi- Sedory Darklight |
Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.07.27 15:20:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ithildin
They have twice the damage of a T1 frigate (6 guns as opposed to 3, note how 25% RoF penalty on 8 guns makes them equivalent of 6) and they don't cost all that much. The only thing bad about them is that they have a slightly too large sig radius. Speed is Ok as they aren't meant to go tackle anyone - they're frigate control and they outrange and out-track frigates.
I can only speak for Gallente here, but the Catalyst does not get a Small Hybrid Turret Damage bonus like, well, every other combat ship of Gallente, so I don't think it outdamages a normal frig by too much. I agree that they outrange and out-track T1 frigates though, but T2 frigates has better bonuses that makes them more efficient killers.
The only REAL problem about the Catalyst (and the other destroyers) is that the Sig Radius garuantees small turrets to deal serious damage in every shot, and Medium turrets seem to miss very few shots. A ship this easy to kill should deal much more damage, or it should have it's Sig Radius decreased. Preferably both.
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Oberon Oblique
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Posted - 2005.07.27 16:28:00 -
[56]
DD's need midslots in a big way. The amarr one has 1 midlsot? like you can pvp in that?
Now if it was 5/4/4 insted of 8/1/4 that would be another matter.
-The mind is strong and the flesh is weak, but oh the flesh... |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.07.27 17:29:00 -
[57]
Thrashers are good because they are strong T1 frigates that are cheap and can be built deep in 0.0 en masse.
If 5 T2 frigates come through a gate against 5 destroyers, the T2 frigates will win the battle, but the destroyers will come out on top moneywise.
In Starcraft this type of blunder can cost you a war.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
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