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Behnid Arcani
Arcani Colonial Fleet
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 10:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
No don't hurt me! It's just some idle musing.
I don't know if this is being discussed somewhere else, but with the tiericide plans, I thought it might be nifty to think about. Basically, as the line up is now, Amarr have no drone boat progression beyond the new Prophecy.
People might want the Armageddon for that role, as it already has the biggest drone bay, but I'd rather that stuck to being a fountain of hot laser death. It even looks similar to the Omen and Harbinger, and it fits well there. Equally, I'd like the Abaddon to stay as it is... since it already fits with the Punisher line, and looks like a ship-of-the-line already.
Which leaves the Apoc... and I don't really want to touch it. Sniper Apocs have been around since forever, and it'd be a shame to change it's traditional role.
All I really would like to do is change the bonuses a little.
+5% Energy weapon Range +10% drone Hp/damage
Keep it as a sniper, but also a drone boat, with a big cap issue, and not so much of a tank. Increase the drone bay, adjust cap levels etc.
Obviously it'll have a split weapon issue, but I think it would be a nice counterpoint to the Domi that way. The Gallente have their close range, high damage bruiser, and the Amarr have a glorious artillery piece, guarded by hordes of canon fodder (thematically used for orbital bombardment and gun boat diplomacy).
I kind of hate suggesting it, as the 8-laser Golden Banana is so iconic, but I also think it would be a ice direction for this ship. |

Chris Slayter
Cypher Mortalis Aureus Alae
10
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 11:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
What you seem to forget is that the Apoc forfills also the role of an entry-level BS. New players (like me for example) chose the Apoc over the other BS's due to its genereous capacitor and rangebonus. Now if you take its capuse bonus from it and exchange it for a drone bonus, you basically make it a geddon 2.0 that lacks a rof bonus and will have to suffer from drawbacks like smaller dronebay or bandwidth to balance sentries on said new ship. So why change something that is fine the way it is? As you already said, the Apoc is good at long-range combat. I'd rather leave it there instead of messing with it by trying to get a 'Dominix Amarr Issue'.
Quote:People might want the Armageddon for that role, as it already has the biggest drone bay [...]
There you go. Why not stick with the geddon for those plans of yours? It already features what you are looking for... lasers and drones. Combine those and you get massive dps-output as is. |

Behnid Arcani
Arcani Colonial Fleet
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 11:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Chris Slayter wrote:What you seem to forget is that the Apoc forfills also the role of an entry-level BS. .
Well here's the thing. Tiericide should eliminate the need for an entry level BS, since they should all be relatively well balanced. And to be honest, with the drone skills trained up from time spent in the new Prophecy, wouldn't that make it an easier ship to hop into for new players? That's partly the reason people go Domi in the first place.... very easy PvE.
I'd imagine the drone bay on the Armageddon being reduced, with a buff to laser damage or speed, so that we have a similar analogue to Harbinger/Prophecy.
Actually, the point you bring up about sentries is interesting. Wouldn't that make it even more of a long range beast? I've never used them, so I'm not sure on their functionality.
Like I said, musings. Just thought it would be nice to have a different take on the Domi's guns and drones set up, especially since there's only one non-pirate dedicated drone BS.
|

Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
395
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 12:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm going to go ahead and say no... Not unless you do a composite bonus.
For example, this wouldn't be too bad: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy turret optimal range and capacitor use per level 10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level.
composite bonuses are something I've routinely advocated for amarr ships... the laser cap use bonus is *expletive deleted* Meanwhile, the abaddon is *expletive deleted* for many uses because of its lack of a cap bonus and its weak cap. It can barely sustain firing its guns for a usable amount of time... which is ok for a brick tank in a fleet... but its absolute *expletive deleted* for solo use. (in contrast to active rep bonuses like the hyperion,that make them ok for solo use, but the bonus is useless in fleets)
If the abaddon bonus were changed from 5% bonus to damage, to 5% bonus to damage and cap use, it would be a lot better |

Behnid Arcani
Arcani Colonial Fleet
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 13:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Is the cap drain on Amarr BSs that bad? I've never really flown bigger than a battlecruiser, but I was under the impression people were in more favour of non-cap reduction bonuses. I remember that part of the Prophecy's problem was just the energy gun usage bonus, without any real benefit over other weapon types.
Hate to suggest it, but if cap use is a problem... maybe drop a turret? I'd think that make any Apoc fan cry though. |

Chris Slayter
Cypher Mortalis Aureus Alae
10
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 15:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Behnid Arcani wrote:Is the cap drain on Amarr BSs that bad? I've never really flown bigger than a battlecruiser [...] Hate to suggest it, but if cap use is a problem... maybe drop a turret? I'd think that make any Apoc fan cry though.
So you have no experience with Amarr BS whatsoever and suggest tremendous changes to a ship that is far from being in need of a change, solely because you are a huge fan of the Prophecy and the changes ahead? I really think there shouldn't be an Amarr drone BS you are aiming for, simply because that's Gallente-style. Amarr has several good drone boats like Arbitrator, Pilgrim and the Geddon (as a laser/drone mix). When talking about skill progression, I can't see why there has to be another drone/laser mixed bs. Skill progression for Amarr usually is Maller/Omen -> Harbinger -> Apocalypse/Abaddon. At least for missioning that is. Now if a player wants to fly drone-based ships you go with Arbitrator -> New Prophecy -> Armageddon. I'd say this is fair enough. If one wants to fly dedicated drone ships there are plenty of Gallente ones to pick from.
tl;dr. Giving every faction a ship for every purpose leads to factions not being unique any longer and thus becoming obsolete. |

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
907
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 15:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
To the best of my knowledge, the Redeemer is the only Amarr ship to break the 75 bandwidth ceiling and hit the 125 required to properly use sentry drones. And it's T2, meaning it is far beyond the skill and ISK range of many pilots.
So yes, Arbitrator is pretty much the largest dedicated Amarr drone ship, and that makes me sad. EvE Forum Bingo |

Dersk
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
150
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 16:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:To the best of my knowledge, the Redeemer is the only Amarr ship to break the 75 bandwidth ceiling and hit the 125 required to properly use sentry drones.
May I introduce to you the previously mentioned Armageddon |

Mister Tuggles
Prime Numbers
32
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 17:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Behnid Arcani wrote:Chris Slayter wrote:What you seem to forget is that the Apoc forfills also the role of an entry-level BS. . Well here's the thing. Tiericide should eliminate the need for an entry level BS, since they should all be relatively well balanced. And to be honest, with the drone skills trained up from time spent in the new Prophecy, wouldn't that make it an easier ship to hop into for new players? That's partly the reason people go Domi in the first place.... very easy PvE. I'd imagine the drone bay on the Armageddon being reduced, with a buff to laser damage or speed, so that we have a similar analogue to Harbinger/Prophecy. Actually, the point you bring up about sentries is interesting. Wouldn't that make it even more of a long range beast? I've never used them, so I'm not sure on their functionality. Like I said, musings. Just thought it would be nice to have a different take on the Domi's guns and drones set up, especially since there's only one non-pirate dedicated drone BS.
If you had been reading the dev blogs the whole tiericide thing isn't hitting BS'es all that hard. MOST of them are already pretty balanced. They are just doing a few tweaks here and there.
The biggest thing about BS'es is the costs. People run an Apoc not because of "ease of entry", but because of how damn cheap it is for what it does. |

Techno General
Universal Nova Tech Inc. Enigma Project
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 23:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Behnid Arcani wrote:No don't hurt me! It's just some idle musing.
I don't know if this is being discussed somewhere else, but with the tiericide plans, I thought it might be nifty to think about. Basically, as the line up is now, Amarr have no drone boat progression beyond the new Prophecy.
People might want the Armageddon for that role, as it already has the biggest drone bay, but I'd rather that stuck to being a fountain of hot laser death. It even looks similar to the Omen and Harbinger, and it fits well there. Equally, I'd like the Abaddon to stay as it is... since it already fits with the Punisher line, and looks like a ship-of-the-line already.
Which leaves the Apoc... and I don't really want to touch it. Sniper Apocs have been around since forever, and it'd be a shame to change it's traditional role.
All I really would like to do is change the bonuses a little.
+5% Energy weapon Range +10% drone Hp/damage
Keep it as a sniper, but also a drone boat, with a big cap issue, and not so much of a tank. Increase the drone bay, adjust cap levels etc.
Obviously it'll have a split weapon issue, but I think it would be a nice counterpoint to the Domi that way. The Gallente have their close range, high damage bruiser, and the Amarr have a glorious artillery piece, guarded by hordes of canon fodder (thematically used for orbital bombardment and gun boat diplomacy).
I kind of hate suggesting it, as the 8-laser Golden Banana is so iconic, but I also think it would be a ice direction for this ship.
No. Dont touch my apoc. |

Austin McLaren
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 00:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
No official word on battleships but make your own assumptions.
Prophecy:
It is no coincidence that the Prophecy is the least used Battlecruiser in the current meta. The combination of anemic damage and slow speed left the ship relegated to the role of obvious bait with the occasional creative fit that relied on the element of surprise rather than competitive performance.
The Prophecy was in dire need of a completely new role, and it has now found that role as the next step in the Amarr EmpireGÇÖs expanding drone carrier program. The energy weapon capacitor bonus is being replaced with a 10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level, and the drone bandwidth is being increased to 75mbit (equal to the current Myrm) with a giant 225m3 bay to hold a wide variety of drones in the tradition of Amarrian drone doctrine.
The Prophecy is also seeing two highslots removed to make room for an extra midslot and lowslot, and the addition of missile launcher hardpoints alongside the turrets to give plenty of fitting options for the creative pilot.
Quote:The Prophecy was in dire need of a completely new role, and it has now found that role as the next step in the Amarr EmpireGÇÖs expanding drone carrier program
Found Here |

Cage Man
166
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 02:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mister Tuggles wrote:
The biggest thing about BS'es is the costs. People run an Apoc not because of "ease of entry", but because of how damn cheap it is for what it does.
I think you have this wrong.. People use it as it is easy to get into as a first amarr BS. Fits easier and has better cap. It also gets a range bonus.. but that for a new player is not as important as not having the complete fitting and support skills. Say what you want, no new player, me included when I started, is going to wait to get into a BS.
Oh PLEASE!!! CCP Fozzie Can I haz a Navy moa....... |

Behnid Arcani
Arcani Colonial Fleet
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 03:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Chris Slayter wrote:Behnid Arcani wrote:Is the cap drain on Amarr BSs that bad? I've never really flown bigger than a battlecruiser [...] Hate to suggest it, but if cap use is a problem... maybe drop a turret? I'd think that make any Apoc fan cry though. So you have no experience with Amarr BS whatsoever and suggest tremendous changes to a ship that is far from being in need of a change, solely because you are a huge fan of the Prophecy and the changes ahead? I really think there shouldn't be an Amarr drone BS you are aiming for, simply because that's Gallente-style. Amarr has several good drone boats like Arbitrator, Pilgrim and the Geddon (as a laser/drone mix). When talking about skill progression, I can't see why there has to be another drone/laser mixed bs. Skill progression for Amarr usually is Maller/Omen -> Harbinger -> Apocalypse/Abaddon. At least for missioning that is. Now if a player wants to fly drone-based ships you go with Arbitrator -> New Prophecy -> Armageddon. I'd say this is fair enough. If one wants to fly dedicated drone ships there are plenty of Gallente ones to pick from. tl;dr. Giving every faction a ship for every purpose leads to factions not being unique any longer and thus becoming obsolete.
|

Kasutra
Tailor Company Hashashin Cartel
145
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 03:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Behnid Arcani wrote:Chris Slayter wrote:
So you have no experience with Amarr BS whatsoever and suggest tremendous changes to a ship that is far from being in need of a change, solely because you are a huge fan of the Prophecy and the changes ahead?
No just idle theory crafting. Amarr have a new drone policy now, and I'd like to see a battleship to roll with those changes. As has already been mentioned, we have one. It's the Armageddon.  |

Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis
187
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 03:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Behnid Arcani wrote:Chris Slayter wrote:
So you have no experience with Amarr BS whatsoever and suggest tremendous changes to a ship that is far from being in need of a change, solely because you are a huge fan of the Prophecy and the changes ahead?
No just idle theory crafting. Amarr have a new drone policy now, and I'd like to see a battleship to roll with those changes. The Abaddon will most likely be changed to fit this though. I do't know how drastic the changes to T2 ships will be, but maybe the Paladin and Absolution will pick up the role of all guns / all tank/ limited utility, with the Abaddon becoming a Khanid inspired close range ship, with unbonused missile options. Like the new Prophecy. I just thought there would be a way to keep the Apocs current role as sniper, whilst giving it more options as a drone boat. The biggest problem so far to that idea is cap use on lasers and the loss of the energy use bonus... and Abaddon pilots somehow deal with that. Don't you goddamn touch my abaddon you evil man you.
Good god now I know how those dirty minnie pilots felt with the battlecruiser changes. |

Behnid Arcani
Arcani Colonial Fleet
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 07:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kasutra wrote:Behnid Arcani wrote:Chris Slayter wrote:
So you have no experience with Amarr BS whatsoever and suggest tremendous changes to a ship that is far from being in need of a change, solely because you are a huge fan of the Prophecy and the changes ahead?
No just idle theory crafting. Amarr have a new drone policy now, and I'd like to see a battleship to roll with those changes. As has already been mentioned, we have one. It's the Armageddon. 
Well... okay, looking at the Armageddon as a drone boat in comparison to the Domi, it can fit with the different drone use styles. Without the bonus the Domi has, but the same bandwidth, the Gallente keep the brute force tactic. I'd like to see the Armageddon get an expanded drone bay though... so they can still have the back up drone benefits the other Amarr carriers have over the Gallente.
|

Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
178
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 09:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Austin McLaren wrote:No official word on battleships but make your own assumptions.
Scroll down: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530
OP: Apocalypse and Abaddon are fine, I'd say Armageddon is too, but given the Amarr are getting a dedicated drone line, I half expect it to get a drone bonus and the ability to fit missile launchers along with lasers. Also note that devs said to be working on a new apocalypse model to shift it away from the machine gun look. Considering what they did with Stabber last year, I'm very much looking forward to it. |

Nikea Tiber
Backwater Enterprises RD
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 09:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
If the geddon gets a drone damage bonus in lieu of an energy turret cap use bonus it needs a bigger cap. If you think the cap on theabaddon is bad, the geddon is worse. The apoc would be a good drone boat even without the turret cap use bonus, as long as itcould use 5 heavies/sentries. |

Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
178
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 09:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
And changing the cap would be a problem because...? |

Alice Saki
Suddenly Spaced Out Suddenly Spaceships.
30421
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 09:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Get your hands off my NavyApoc :D
Normal Apoc meh Couldn't Care :P I lack any Moral Fiber :D |

Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
395
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 10:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Behnid Arcani wrote:The Abaddon will most likely be changed to fit this though. I do't know how drastic the changes to T2 ships will be, but maybe the Paladin and Absolution will pick up the role of all guns / all tank/ limited utility, with the Abaddon becoming a Khanid inspired close range ship, with unbonused missile options. Like the new Prophecy.
I think you have no idea what you are talking about |

Behnid Arcani
Arcani Colonial Fleet
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 10:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Behnid Arcani wrote:The Abaddon will most likely be changed to fit this though. I do't know how drastic the changes to T2 ships will be, but maybe the Paladin and Absolution will pick up the role of all guns / all tank/ limited utility, with the Abaddon becoming a Khanid inspired close range ship, with unbonused missile options. Like the new Prophecy. I think you have no idea what you are talking about
Not really. I just like talking about different possibilities. I'd like people to educate me though, hence opening up the thread 
I'm learning a lot though, from people's responses. Mostly that the Amarr BS line up is considered good enough already, and that the game play for Armageddon in particular is what I should be building for. I always thought it was supposed to be the close range damage dealer, so I'm a little surprised it's considered a drone boat already.
|

Caldari 5
The Element Syndicate
45
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 10:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Behnid Arcani wrote:Kasutra wrote:Behnid Arcani wrote:Chris Slayter wrote:
So you have no experience with Amarr BS whatsoever and suggest tremendous changes to a ship that is far from being in need of a change, solely because you are a huge fan of the Prophecy and the changes ahead?
No just idle theory crafting. Amarr have a new drone policy now, and I'd like to see a battleship to roll with those changes. As has already been mentioned, we have one. It's the Armageddon.  Well... okay, looking at the Armageddon as a drone boat in comparison to the Domi, it can fit with the different drone use styles. Without the bonus the Domi has, but the same bandwidth, the Gallente keep the brute force tactic. I'd like to see the Armageddon get an expanded drone bay though... so they can still have the back up drone benefits the other Amarr carriers have over the Gallente.
Arbitrator Bandwidth 50, Done Bay 150 Planned Prophecy Bandwidth 75, Drone Bay 225 Projected Armageddon Bandwidth 125, Drone Bay 375? Maintaining the Bay being 3 times the Bandwidth? |

Behnid Arcani
Arcani Colonial Fleet
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 11:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Caldari 5 wrote:Behnid Arcani wrote:Kasutra wrote:Behnid Arcani wrote:Chris Slayter wrote:
So you have no experience with Amarr BS whatsoever and suggest tremendous changes to a ship that is far from being in need of a change, solely because you are a huge fan of the Prophecy and the changes ahead?
No just idle theory crafting. Amarr have a new drone policy now, and I'd like to see a battleship to roll with those changes. As has already been mentioned, we have one. It's the Armageddon.  Well... okay, looking at the Armageddon as a drone boat in comparison to the Domi, it can fit with the different drone use styles. Without the bonus the Domi has, but the same bandwidth, the Gallente keep the brute force tactic. I'd like to see the Armageddon get an expanded drone bay though... so they can still have the back up drone benefits the other Amarr carriers have over the Gallente. Arbitrator Bandwidth 50, Done Bay 150 Planned Prophecy Bandwidth 75, Drone Bay 225 Projected Armageddon Bandwidth 125, Drone Bay 375? Maintaining the Bay being 3 times the Bandwidth?
Something like that, but then that'll be the same as the Domi... so reduce the Domi drone bay, to bring it in line with the cruiser/battlecruisers ratio between Gallente and Amarr.
I guess either would be poorly received by players. Such a big drone bay on an un-bonused ship would seem silly, and reducing the Domi drone bay would have, well, predictable results.
|

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
561
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 11:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31508643.jpg
I cannot think of a change that would **** me off more than that. |

Alayna Le'line
National Liberation Force Nomads.
73
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 13:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Behnid Arcani wrote:I guess either would be poorly received by players. Such a big drone bay on an un-bonused ship would seem silly, and reducing the Domi drone bay would have, well, predictable results.
I'm already sharpening my knives. |

Hulasikaly Wada
G.P.S. Global Private Security Agency
10
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 15:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
i wish to see more BSs with with 100/125 Mb and 150/175 m3 of drone bay ( Apocapse/Typhoon navy love ) and maybe a different set of drone bonuses ( 10% optimal/speed ? speed/accuracy? Even drone control range isn't bad on a Bs ... ) making drones a real second weapon system BUT perventing it from becoming primary like on Domi/Rattlesnake. Most of BSs without 125 Mb use it only for light and ECM/logistic drones.
Hula |

Hakaimono
Stillwater Corporation
47
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 16:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Armageddons don't get a drone bonus unless the Typhoon does. Until then, leave it to Gallente. |

Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis
188
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 16:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hakaimono wrote:Armageddons don't get a drone bonus unless the Typhoon does. Until then, leave it to Gallente. I must stand with this upstanding citizen. The armageddon is perfectly fine just having an unbonused drone bay. You don't need a dedicated drone hull for every ship class in the amarr lineup.
|

Gabriel Karade
Noir. Black Legion.
30
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 18:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
The battleship line is probably the most functional and balanced part of the Amarr fleet, there is no reason why it should be tinkered with.
I know there is a recent penchant for sticking drone bonuses on more Amarr ships, but that really doesn't have to extend to the Battleship level, nor should it IMO - that should be reserved for Gallente hulls.
Gallente MkII: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1227770 War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293 |
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