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EvilSyKOSkitzo
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Posted - 2005.07.29 12:22:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: R31D
400mm Plated Wolf is pretty cool.
Imagine the Claw setup + a membrane or two
Stupid Question: What is the Claw setup?
- Evil
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Apoll
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Posted - 2005.07.29 12:38:00 -
[32]
Great thread.
I fly with my retrib and I love more than anything that ship. Is the more versatile AF for fleets in PVP and soloing in PvE.
It's only thing that everyone complain is the 1 med. Soz folks but that ship is for team players. That's why you group with ceptor and kick everyone in range.
That ship has the biggest grid and the best cap (big and fast rechargable).
The best resistances (even without hardeners) all round, and +100 armor than Enyo before skills or items.
With 400mm rolled armor you get 1960 hp (hull upg 5) high resist one. Ofc you either do aprox 10% damage less (by using light laser) or go for full damage autocannons.
(Please not another flame for them, there are 10 threads already discussed the same subject read them).
Also you need more skills to fit the very best items. An advance weapon upgrades 4 will lower the weapons needs by that little grid to fit something better.
Ideas for fitting?
4 med pulses T2
Sensor booster
Small Armor rep T2- 200mm rolled/t2 armor - tracking enhacer - cap relay - hardener/membrane
4 light beams (or 4 light pulses and do some modification)
t2 ab
Small Armor rep T2- 400mm rolled/t2 armor - MAPC - cap relay - Hardener (active, passive, energised) everything fit with advance weapon upgrades 4.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.07.29 13:22:00 -
[33]
What purpose does a plate serve on an AF?
AFAICT it only serves to make you interceptor bait.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
MrRookie
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Posted - 2005.07.29 13:36:00 -
[34]
as long as you can hitt as far as 20 km I doubt a ceptor will ever beat a 1800 armor HP Retribution. You can actualy take a cup of tea and then warp off if you :p
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy... 
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.07.29 14:13:00 -
[35]
Edited by: j0sephine on 29/07/2005 14:14:19
"The amount of HP and resistance isnt silly at all, the current gankfest is more silly. They should boost the plates even more imo  "
Well, the silly part is: regular battleship with base resistances (35% average) = ~7.6 k armour, plated frigate with 70+ resistances: ~6.6 k armour (and the more focused damage is dealt, the better frigate gets over the battleship)
won't be getting into the hp discussion as it's been done to death in relevant thread, but.. the harder you make something to kill, the more you encourage all-out-damage setups and blob warfare... simply because you need increased firepower to actually kill something before it runs/logs. Two ships pounding at each other for hour with no resolution, because neither on their own can do enough damage to get the other's defenses down... yawn.
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Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2005.07.29 14:16:00 -
[36]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 29/07/2005 14:14:19
"The amount of HP and resistance isnt silly at all, the current gankfest is more silly. They should boost the plates even more imo "
Well, the silly part is: regular battleship with base resistances (35% average) = ~7.6 k armour, plated frigate with 70+ resistances: ~6.6 k armour (and the more focused damage is dealt, the better frigate gets over the battleship)
won't be getting into the hp discussion as it's been done to death in relevant thread, but.. the harder you make something to kill, the more you encourage all-out-damage setups and blob warfare... simply because you need increased firepower to actually kill something before it runs/logs. Two ships pounding at each other for hour with no resolution, because neither on their own can do enough damage to get the other's defenses down... yawn.
dosnt happen alot tho might be more commen, still its not as silly as 5 caprelays ravens used to be 
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.07.29 14:45:00 -
[37]
Originally by: EvilSyKOSkitzo
Originally by: R31D
400mm Plated Wolf is pretty cool.
Imagine the Claw setup + a membrane or two
Stupid Question: What is the Claw setup?
- Evil
Not giving away specifics, but it generally revolves around:
3x AC's
1x Rocket launcher
1x web
1x scramble
1x 400mm plate
1x small armour rep
2x something else
Some people like to fit an AB/MWD on it, some people don't. What you put in those extra lows is down to the pilot's preference/needs
Free bumpage for all |
Jamius
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Posted - 2005.07.29 15:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 29/07/2005 14:14:19
"The amount of HP and resistance isnt silly at all, the current gankfest is more silly. They should boost the plates even more imo "
Well, the silly part is: regular battleship with base resistances (35% average) = ~7.6 k armour, plated frigate with 70+ resistances: ~6.6 k armour (and the more focused damage is dealt, the better frigate gets over the battleship)
won't be getting into the hp discussion as it's been done to death in relevant thread, but.. the harder you make something to kill, the more you encourage all-out-damage setups and blob warfare... simply because you need increased firepower to actually kill something before it runs/logs. Two ships pounding at each other for hour with no resolution, because neither on their own can do enough damage to get the other's defenses down... yawn.
What is wrong with us being able to make our ships harder to kill while retaining a decent damage setup (realative for the ship type) that results in longer fights. There is nothing worse than dying so quick you hardly get a lock on someone. You learn nothing and get zero fun. Even if I die but put up a bit of a fight I've still enjoyed myself and tougher ships allow this.
Is everyone's idea of fun only when you kill your opponent? I simply enjoy a good fight. If no one wins then you have a good chat with your opponent in local afterwards and you both learn from it.
Don't get me wrong I love to pop an opponents ship but a good, hard fought scrap is fun too. I even feel bad sometimes when I kill someone and we chat afterwards about the fight - cos that was the fun part and now a new chum has lost his ship. It's meant to be fun for all parties involved remember, not just you.
The plate thing might indeed need tweaked but guess what. We can all take advantage of it so if a plate cruiser blows your BS up, learn from it.
Nice AF setup btw. I will fear the little critters more the next time I meet one in my bigger ships.
I can see it now.
"that AF is attacking me solo - are they mad!! Ah well, they asked for it. 5 tech II rails activated, I'll sit back and enjoy the explosion"
" wait a minute, why do they still have most of their armour intact? Oh oh!!"
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Captin Biltmore
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Posted - 2005.07.29 17:27:00 -
[39]
Ok, I think this is the best possible setup:
High: 4 Med Pulse II
Med: 1 PWNAGE Target Painter
Lows: 1 Small TII Armor Rep, 1 400mm Rolled Tungston, 1 True Sansha Thermal Hardener, 1 True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano, 1 Micro 'Vigor' Core
This will all fit with Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 4. You get the phenominal Med Pulse II damage (with ability to hit beyond 20km) and these resists: 69, 84.5, 71, 73.2 with 1820hp of armor. Even better resists and it has 0 reduced damage. Common, be honest.....who's opinion of the retribution has changed now  ? I know mine has.
Assasin For Hire - Contact in game |
Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.07.29 18:04:00 -
[40]
I realy hope you all die to longrange Intys...
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.07.29 18:21:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Captin Biltmore
Ok, I think this is the best possible setup:
High: 4 Med Pulse II
Med: 1 PWNAGE Target Painter
Lows: 1 Small TII Armor Rep, 1 400mm Rolled Tungston, 1 True Sansha Thermal Hardener, 1 True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano, 1 Micro 'Vigor' Core
This will all fit with Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 4. You get the phenominal Med Pulse II damage (with ability to hit beyond 20km) and these resists: 69, 84.5, 71, 73.2 with 1820hp of armor. Even better resists and it has 0 reduced damage. Common, be honest.....who's opinion of the retribution has changed now ? I know mine has.
With the amount of isk that costs, you could buy a Zealot.
Of course after spending all that isk you still can't kill anything alone...what a waste.
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Jamius
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Posted - 2005.07.29 18:26:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Bruchpilot
I realy hope you all die to longrange Intys...
heh heh - some interesting new fight's coming up. I sure am glad I can use an AF in 3 days time :)
As a quick sideline - if this plate theory gets used with HAC's are they not going to be beastly now?
I think this is a good thing for AF's and HAC's - they deserve it with the training required (especially for HAC's) and the loss you incur when you lose one.
Also would be interested in how an apoc would be with 2 or 3 (if it's possible) of these plates and medium sized tech II guns ( I would imagine you would have to downsize the guns). A fight against a gankageddon and an, em, armourgeddon would be interesting.
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Captin Biltmore
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Posted - 2005.07.29 18:37:00 -
[43]
This theory cannot work with HAC's for 1 reason....MAPCS. The module that makes this all possible is only viable on frig sized ships. 1 MAPC gives a retribution a 20% increase on your powergrid. To get a large powergrid boost on a HAC you need an RCU...and even the TII RCU only gives 15% increase. I guess a zelot (with it's abnormal ammount of low slots like a retribution) could use this theory, but I doubt many more could.
Assasin For Hire - Contact in game |
Vigilant
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Posted - 2005.07.29 18:41:00 -
[44]
Micro Aux Cores give 10 PG period... not percentages.... like RCU/Power Diags (PDU).....
T2 Micro Aux would be every AF/Ceptor Pilots Wet dream
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2005.07.29 18:47:00 -
[45]
wolf dont got teh grid but its poss with newb membrane and a 10pg mod
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.07.29 19:55:00 -
[46]
Originally by: MrRookie
as long as you can hitt as far as 20 km I doubt a ceptor will ever beat a 1800 armor HP Retribution. You can actualy take a cup of tea and then warp off if you :p
I would generally agree with you in most cases. However, I have run into a few situations where long range set ups on my retribution have gotten me killed. For example a Claw with Autocannons and a 400mm plate will get in a 500m orbit going about 500-600 m/s and chew up a retribution. Without a web fitted your beams and pulses will not be able to track enough to hit.
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Captin Biltmore
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Posted - 2005.07.29 20:46:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Vigilant
Micro Aux Cores give 10 PG period... not percentages.... like RCU/Power Diags (PDU).....
T2 Micro Aux would be every AF/Ceptor Pilots Wet dream
/me slaps some math into Vigilant
MAPC is only 10pg improvement yes. But look at the base powergrid of your frig. A retribution is 56pg. when u add 10pg it goes up to 66pg. 66pg is 18% more than 56 (hence the percentage). The name MAPC is 12pg....so it would go up to 68pg wich is 21% more than 56pg. And since skills are added AFTER the MAPC increase skills are ir-relavant to the percentage increase.
/me sends Vigilant back to 3rd grade to learn basic algebra.
Assasin For Hire - Contact in game |
Captin Biltmore
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Posted - 2005.07.29 20:48:00 -
[48]
Originally by: xenorx
Originally by: MrRookie
as long as you can hitt as far as 20 km I doubt a ceptor will ever beat a 1800 armor HP Retribution. You can actualy take a cup of tea and then warp off if you :p
I would generally agree with you in most cases. However, I have run into a few situations where long range set ups on my retribution have gotten me killed. For example a Claw with Autocannons and a 400mm plate will get in a 500m orbit going about 500-600 m/s and chew up a retribution. Without a web fitted your beams and pulses will not be able to track enough to hit.
If your med pulse II's cant hit a target at 500m orbiting at 5-600m/s you need to train some skills. I can hit that (and wreck) no problem. Then add on that Painter....u better be able to hit that or just hang up your gunnery skill points cause you suck.
Assasin For Hire - Contact in game |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.07.29 21:31:00 -
[49]
Originally by: R31D
400mm Plated Wolf is pretty cool.
Imagine the Claw setup + a membrane or two
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.07.29 21:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Julien Derida
It works very nicely with a Wolf, just set it up like a plate Claw. Bear in mind that you'll have to watch out for long-range inties, as they will cause you major problems.
And that Claw might well still manage to kick your ass. But yea..
j0sephine, given this is on a 1 mid-slot ship, I'm not too worried. I can allways disengage in my Claw if it's set up too well for me :)
Vigilant, I'd take a normal supply of NAMED micro aux's.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2005.07.29 22:00:00 -
[51]
Please, let people find out these things by themselves.
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Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.07.29 22:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And that Claw might well still manage to kick your ass. But yea..
Indeed it might, the tracking bonus on the Claw is a useful thing. It's a moot point really though, it's not a general purpose setup and I would never take it out hunting inties. It's just something that works pretty nicely against the many plated cruisers that use small beam lasers, and an occasional BS.
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Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK |
xenorx
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Posted - 2005.07.29 23:38:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Captin Biltmore
Originally by: xenorx
Originally by: MrRookie
as long as you can hitt as far as 20 km I doubt a ceptor will ever beat a 1800 armor HP Retribution. You can actualy take a cup of tea and then warp off if you :p
I would generally agree with you in most cases. However, I have run into a few situations where long range set ups on my retribution have gotten me killed. For example a Claw with Autocannons and a 400mm plate will get in a 500m orbit going about 500-600 m/s and chew up a retribution. Without a web fitted your beams and pulses will not be able to track enough to hit.
If your med pulse II's cant hit a target at 500m orbiting at 5-600m/s you need to train some skills. I can hit that (and wreck) no problem. Then add on that Painter....u better be able to hit that or just hang up your gunnery skill points cause you suck.
I made a constructive point generally agreeing with you with one exception. I pointed out the fact that the long range set ups are not perfect. In response I get a personal insult worthy of a 12 year old. Perhaps you should change your sig for accuracy. Something like Ass-H*le for Hire would be more better.
Perhaps your target painter is more effective than a web. I dont know since I have had great success with the web and never bothered with the painter.
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.07.29 23:41:00 -
[54]
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: R31D
400mm Plated Wolf is pretty cool.
Imagine the Claw setup + a membrane or two
The quote isn't funny. The fact I know exactly why your laughing is funny
Free bumpage for all |
R31D
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Posted - 2005.07.29 23:45:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Jamius
Originally by: Bruchpilot
I realy hope you all die to longrange Intys...
heh heh - some interesting new fight's coming up. I sure am glad I can use an AF in 3 days time :)
As a quick sideline - if this plate theory gets used with HAC's are they not going to be beastly now?
I think this is a good thing for AF's and HAC's - they deserve it with the training required (especially for HAC's) and the loss you incur when you lose one.
Also would be interested in how an apoc would be with 2 or 3 (if it's possible) of these plates and medium sized tech II guns ( I would imagine you would have to downsize the guns). A fight against a gankageddon and an, em, armourgeddon would be interesting.
I like your thinking sir, but will anybody adopt my 40k+ hp Apoc, no they won't.
Seriously, it's the answer to ganking. I fit that, 7x megapulses and a Large Armour Rep
Free bumpage for all |
Phelan Lore
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Posted - 2005.07.29 23:49:00 -
[56]
Originally by: R31D
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: R31D
400mm Plated Wolf is pretty cool.
Imagine the Claw setup + a membrane or two
The quote isn't funny. The fact I know exactly why your laughing is funny
already has 1 or 2?
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.07.30 02:58:00 -
[57]
Nope. He doesn't afaik 
Free bumpage for all |
Mao TseTung
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Posted - 2005.07.30 05:59:00 -
[58]
Originally by: kessah
lol retribution a scarecrow. i solo in mine and i do well in it well until recently. Ceptors once there in range last about 5-15 seconds depending on ceptor and set-up. Med pulse track very well for me duno about anyone else.
There dangerous ships high damage highly tankable, med slots are overrated.
If interceptors are so easy to kill, why did 2 of us have you running away?
Lieutenant Mao TseTung
Caldari Assault Group
"The pen and the sword are inexorably linked."
C.A.G. website http://bosie.proboards40.com/ |
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