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Akilah Ashaki
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:11:00 -
[1]
Reading those thread about flying in formation gave me this idea :
A problem in this game is you cant really escort a convoy, because even if u gather an overwhelming force, a small enemy force focusing fire on the weak escroted ships will always manage to destroy ur precious convoy.
For this reason escorting indies isnt worth the time most of the time and your best bet is to send a scout ahead.
here the idea to counter this :
An "escort link" module : Hi slot module fitted by escorters.
This module can only target industrial ship, shuttle (for VIP escort :p) and perhaps logistic cruisers.
While targetted at least by one of this module, all non gang member locks are lost on the escorted ship and it cannot be targeted anymore by non gang member.
The escorted ship cannot warp out nor jump nor target non gang member.
this way attacker must defeat the escort before taking on the convoy. as a counter part, the convoy must stay in place and cannot escape while it is immune to locking.
keep in mind that only indy, shuttle and perhaps logistics cruiser will be able to be protected by this way
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:18:00 -
[2]
while its a nice idea id have to say no imho.
I know paralells to RL suck, but bare with me. The way it works now is more "realistic" for want of a better word. In real life only a fool would move valuable items in unarmored transport without some kind of scout/pointman etc through a hostile area.
And thus it is in eve. You need scouts AND protection to run along with the hauler if you want to be 99% safe (your never 100% safe). If your in a hurry then you need a combat force to clear a path if hostiles are encountered. Seems to work ok as it is.
The safety of the protected ship is 99.999% directly dependent on the players skills, not on modules and this is how it should be.
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Akilah Ashaki
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:28:00 -
[3]
The fact is actually an escort is pointless.
You're shipment is safer with an indy an a scouting shuttle than an indy and 3 BS.
You see my point ?
I m all for player skill > mod skill.
with my proposition, if attackers can defeat the escort , then they will be able to take on the convoy as usual, because it cant go anywhere while protected by an "escort link"
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Tekran
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:33:00 -
[4]
consider spoofing and/or mixing up the targets a bit. why escort a Single iteron (for example) with your fleet, when you could escort 3.. or 7.. present an enemy with 6 blanks (full of veld, perhaps, or holding a single unit of something nice) and the odds of your Real prize getting through improve. or totally fake haulers altogether. run that big looking hauler (with all the nice expensive mods stripped out and left at home) right into the ground as a sweet lil target while a half dozen or more cruisers stacked with cargo mods slides the Good part through the gate.
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Loka
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:38:00 -
[5]
Use decoys!!
Let decoy hauler or Shuttle warp in. If he gets destroy, enemys have to Safespot -> Crimanl flag or are outside 150km range. Why shuttles? Enemy will shoot instantly, because they are frightend, you could warp away.-> no one can scan your cargo :D
If the shuttle will be poped, buy a new one and continue :P
If so, use your gankfleet to snipe back. Once they are safespoted, jump in with the goodies and continue your trip.
It sounds like work, yes it is. But imagine the manhours you have invested in collecting the isk in your hauler. A few hours more work, wont hit you harder, than loosing your complete work would it?
I have done it 2 times myself and it worked perfectly.
_____________________________________
Dead or Alive
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Akilah Ashaki
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:41:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Tekran
consider spoofing and/or mixing up the targets a bit. why escort a Single iteron (for example) with your fleet, when you could escort 3.. or 7..
Well it's nice but why not having 3 or 7 more BS to defend your convoy in place of goat indies ?
IMO its make more sense.
the most expensive ressource in this game isn't isk, zydrine or BS it's players.
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:44:00 -
[7]
Escort modules, such that opposition can't lock? Sounds like ECM target jammers and remote sensor dampeners to me.
I've had a moderate amount of success running escort in a jamming ship. Just make sure you pop locks on the hauler first :)
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Acuna Traos
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:45:00 -
[8]
If you want to be safe moving cargo its better to use a transport ship (bustard etc) and scouts than a overwhelming force of battleships etc as people have mentioned. But what if it were an overwhelming force of jamming griffins  , you don't have to destroy the aggressor ships to save the convoy, and being frig sized they have a good natural fast lock (ok not as good as some others) and can jam out to a good range. (would have to put sensor booster on though as well etc to get the lock range, but that will mean an even faster lock). Not as good as a good old scouting party but a better option than battle ships imo. Maybe even a couple of logistics cruisers in there too. Maybe mix in some crucifiers to mess up the offending ships optimals and tracking.
(Most of these can be done with relatively new chars as well I think)
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Akilah Ashaki
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Loka
Use decoys!!
Let decoy hauler or Shuttle warp in. If he gets destroy, enemys have to Safespot -> Crimanl flag or are outside 150km range. Why shuttles? Enemy will shoot instantly, because they are frightend, you could warp away.-> no one can scan your cargo :D
If the shuttle will be poped, buy a new one and continue :P
If so, use your gankfleet to snipe back. Once they are safespoted, jump in with the goodies and continue your trip.
It sounds like work, yes it is. But imagine the manhours you have invested in collecting the isk in your hauler. A few hours more work, wont hit you harder, than loosing your complete work would it?
I have done it 2 times myself and it worked perfectly.
I dont complain about the fact you can loose a shipment or try to find a cheap trick to avoid gate camps.
I just submit this because i feel the gameplay may be enhanced with some kind of "regular" escorted convoy encounters. This is my point.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:51:00 -
[10]
This certainly isn't the worst idea I have ever heard.
Promotes teamwork and doesn't seem unbalancing.
The only problem I would point out is that a fleet of industrials could use it on each other, effectively providing the bonus without actually bringing an escort.
I guess that could be solved by not allowing the modules to be fitted to ships which can be protected by them. (Yeah, I know, doesn't apply to shuttles)
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Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Avon
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Posted - 2005.07.29 09:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Escort modules, such that opposition can't lock? Sounds like ECM target jammers and remote sensor dampeners to me.
I've had a moderate amount of success running escort in a jamming ship. Just make sure you pop locks on the hauler first :)
No, they are all offensive modules.
What is suggested here is a way to defend from attackers without having to attack first.
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Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Acuna Traos
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Posted - 2005.07.29 10:01:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: James Lyrus
Escort modules, such that opposition can't lock? Sounds like ECM target jammers and remote sensor dampeners to me.
I've had a moderate amount of success running escort in a jamming ship. Just make sure you pop locks on the hauler first :)
No, they are all offensive modules.
What is suggested here is a way to defend from attackers without having to attack first.
Logistics ships + Transport ships will give you enough time to attack second and not loose the escorted ship. It's an escortĘs job to scout and then to react to danger, you can't go shooting at people before they shoot at you as this could bring unwanted agro. What you need is a quick way to remove a threat when it appears and ECM can do this. It just requires that you should have one or two tech 2 ships (being the transport and the logistics ship) so that you have some time to react, and also scout ahead since it would just be silly to jump into a big pack of gank ships.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.07.29 10:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Acuna Traos
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: James Lyrus
Escort modules, such that opposition can't lock? Sounds like ECM target jammers and remote sensor dampeners to me.
I've had a moderate amount of success running escort in a jamming ship. Just make sure you pop locks on the hauler first :)
No, they are all offensive modules.
What is suggested here is a way to defend from attackers without having to attack first.
Logistics ships + Transport ships will give you enough time to attack second and not loose the escorted ship. It's an escort’s job to scout and then to react to danger, you can't go shooting at people before they shoot at you as this could bring unwanted agro. What you need is a quick way to remove a threat when it appears and ECM can do this. It just requires that you should have one or two tech 2 ships (being the transport and the logistics ship) so that you have some time to react, and also scout ahead since it would just be silly to jump into a big pack of gank ships.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that isn't a valid tactic ... but it isn't really what the thread is about (as I understand it).
Also, it does nothing to help all those thousands of players who are unable to fly transport ships.
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Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Akilah Ashaki
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Posted - 2005.07.29 10:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Avon
but it isn't really what the thread is about (as I understand it).
You understood well 
The point of this thread is not to list all the actual tactics ingame to haul through dangerous space.
But to discuss a possible new escort concept, balanced for every parties.
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Acuna Traos
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Posted - 2005.07.29 10:18:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Acuna Traos on 29/07/2005 10:22:40
Originally by: Avon
Also, it does nothing to help all those thousands of players who are unable to fly transport ships.
It would only require one person in the fleet to be able to fly one. But yeah it does pose a problem to fleets without such a person. However to go back to the original post I don't think such a module is a good idea, you might as well put a cloak on the ship instead since this does a similar thing. What I think would be better is if the module diverted the lock to your ship rather than preventing a lock. (not sure how you could explain this in the fluff but it would be a good consequence to the escort ship for attempting to protect its ship. Like a bodyguard jumping in the way of a gunman.)
Edit:
Originally by: Akilah Ashaki
You understood well
The point of this thread is not to list all the actual tactics ingame to haul through dangerous space.
But to discuss a possible new escort concept, balanced for every parties.
But by discussing the possible tactics to haul you can build up a better picture of what is needed  ... though I did get a little side tracked.
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Akilah Ashaki
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Posted - 2005.07.29 10:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Acuna Traos
What I think would be better is if the module diverted the lock to your ship rather than preventing a lock. (not sure how you could explain this in the fluff but it would be a good consequence to the escort ship for attempting to protect its ship. Like a bodyguard jumping in the way of a gunman.)
I buy this  it's even better.
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2005.07.29 10:23:00 -
[17]
An idea I have voiced earlier that is slightly different than yourse is the following:
The module would work similarily to your Idea, Ie you have to lock onto the escorted ship and activate the module but the way it would work is differently.
The module would allow the escorting ship to take the damage in place of the thip guarded.
Limits would be that only one such model can be placed on a ship at a time and if you have an active such module the you can not yourself be guarded.
The effect of the module is that 80-95% of the damage done to the target ship is applied to the guarding ship.
In short, the module allows you to take the brunt of the force on a ship that can actually take a beating but if enough firepower is poured onto the target it may still get destroyed.
------------
20. Is it true all pvpers have carebear alts?
Yes, of course. I have so much fun looking up who's alt is who's
kieron
Community Manager,
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Bel Amar
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Posted - 2005.07.29 11:25:00 -
[18]
Imagine instead if you had a module on your BS that effectively made it a glowing red target. It emits so much electromagnetic noise, that locking on to anything close to it is next to impossible whilst it's active. Of course, it would mean that it's incredibly easy to lock on to the BS itself, as it's signature would be huge. But it might be worth it...
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the bandersnatch
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Posted - 2005.07.29 12:38:00 -
[19]
The idea of a module where you could target your intended escortee and then any target locks on them would instead be transferred to you is a good one, IMO. It would really create escorting as a viable option.
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Hung Odonkey
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Posted - 2005.07.29 12:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bel Amar
Imagine instead if you had a module on your BS that effectively made it a glowing red target. It emits so much electromagnetic noise, that locking on to anything close to it is next to impossible whilst it's active. Of course, it would mean that it's incredibly easy to lock on to the BS itself, as it's signature would be huge. But it might be worth it...
Hmm isn't this an MWD, 500% increase to sig. Sounds good to me. Problem solved :) Oh and if thats not enough just equip the tech 2 version, 550%. Believe me that extra 50% helps ;)
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Akilah Ashaki
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Posted - 2005.07.29 13:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Avon
The only problem I would point out is that a fleet of industrials could use it on each other, effectively providing the bonus without actually bringing an escort.
I guess that could be solved by not allowing the modules to be fitted to ships which can be protected by them. (Yeah, I know, doesn't apply to shuttles)
Well this will result in a blob of indy untargetable, unable to go anywhere. Smartbombs 4tw !
But your right the best bet is to forbid fitting of this module on ship able to be protected, or make the escorted unable to lock at all (in this case logistic cruisers are removed from the scheme)
So to summerize :
* Advantage : indy or shuttle cant be targeted
* Conterpart :
- escorters must sacrfice a hi slot.
- while immune to locking indy/shuttle cant warp out nor jump nor lock.
- escorted ship are still subject to smartbomb damage.
- I add : pvp log off timer apply to escorted ship
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