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Shimmering, Flickering Textures - Amarr Stations

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Chris Carlito	Posted - 2005.07.30 12:32:00 - [1] I was just curious to know if this problem has a worked around. I have 6800GT Ultra and run EVE with everything on its highest settings - Full Screen 24 bit colour with 8 bit alpha 1280x1024 32bit Z buffer with 8 bit stencil (the culprit?) Z Buffer 100Hz Now when I'm in an Amarr vessel or I approach an Amarr Station they have this shimmering, flickering broken textures effect which is incredibly annoying. If i knock down the 32bit Z Buffer With 8bit stencil down to 16bit the problem disappears. however, because its only 16bit the station textures then overlap each other when looking at them from a distance, which is equally annoying. This problem has been in EVE for as long as I can remember and it is incredibly frustrating. I was hoping someone could shed some light on a way to cure this as I have changed to an ATI card then back again as it made no diffrence, played eve on 4 diffrent machines with the same problem and am beginning to reach the end of my patients. Thank You
Chris Carlito	Posted - 2005.07.30 15:05:00 - [2] Simpler question - Does anyone else suffer with this problem or in some weird mystical way is this a problem that only affects my account? Thank you
Tsan	Posted - 2005.07.30 17:00:00 - [3] Hi Chris. You're not alone. I have noticed it and have an ATi x800 pro, its dead annoying as has also been there for as long as I can remember. My friend also has almost ur identical setup and he notices it too. It's simply beyond our control to fix, and I guess its one of the million things on ccp's "to-fix" list
Dsanta2345	Posted - 2005.07.30 21:57:00 - [4] Originally by: Chris Carlito I was just curious to know if this problem has a worked around. I have 6800GT Ultra and run EVE with everything on its highest settings - Full Screen 24 bit colour with 8 bit alpha 1280x1024 32bit Z buffer with 8 bit stencil (the culprit?) Z Buffer 100Hz Now when I'm in an Amarr vessel or I approach an Amarr Station they have this shimmering, flickering broken textures effect which is incredibly annoying. If i knock down the 32bit Z Buffer With 8bit stencil down to 16bit the problem disappears. however, because its only 16bit the station textures then overlap each other when looking at them from a distance, which is equally annoying. This problem has been in EVE for as long as I can remember and it is incredibly frustrating. I was hoping someone could shed some light on a way to cure this as I have changed to an ATI card then back again as it made no diffrence, played eve on 4 diffrent machines with the same problem and am beginning to reach the end of my patients. Thank You In the follow pic i am 600m from an amarr station. The Picture ----- I dont sleep much so dont mind my errors or extra words. CCP plz fix this random bug: Linkage
Velor	Posted - 2005.07.30 23:19:00 - [5] I get the same thing as you, Chris. No solution yet. :(
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.07.31 00:27:00 - [6] Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 31/07/2005 00:27:21 Problem is that two surfaces of the model were made too close together and the Z-buffer has trouble telling which should be in front .. thus we get "texture fighting" (I understand the games Z-buffer is more than normally imprecise because it has to deal with such large objects and distances) the effect has been lessened and reduced over the last two years by various patches and graphics engine changes, but it has never dissapeared and I suspect never will unless they replace the model. EDIT : Looked at the picture .. Sorry sounded like another issue :P . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Vexy NiLakum	Posted - 2005.07.31 07:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Chris Carlito Simpler question - Does anyone else suffer with this problem or in some weird mystical way is this a problem that only affects my account? Thank you I have, Full Screen 24 bit colour with 8 bit alpha 1024x768 32bit Z buffer with 8 bit stencil (the culprit?) Z Buffer 75Hz and I do not experience that kind of corruption you describe. The Amarr stations appear normal to me, but when I am close I can see two textures changing back and forth. However the textures are rendered correctly, they just switch between eachother... Btw, I have ATI X300 128MB. I always thought this kind of problem with textures are due to incorrectly handling of ATI drivers I do not know >.< Maybe some day people will be able to find a solution... ------------------------------------------------ Official Corp Pet of Friday Night Fight Club >^^<
Rawk Awn	Posted - 2005.07.31 19:41:00 - [8] My nvidia card (FX5200 Ultra, latest drivers) does this too. I thought it was so annoying that I passed over Amarrians as my first choice for race. Admittedly, Some Minmatar structures do this too but not anything like as bad as Amarr. ------------------------------------------------- Ralph Wiggum says, "Fire feels like wind".
Lu Tze	Posted - 2005.07.31 20:41:00 - [9] I used to get this all the time. However, on the release of Exodus, I found that using W buffer rather than Z buffer fixed all these problems! Since the release of CWE though, using W buffer causes planets to be transparent to the sun and their rings (you can see the whole ring, looping behind the planet). I'm back with shimmering Amarr stations now
Chris Carlito	Posted - 2005.08.01 11:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Rawk Awn My nvidia card (FX5200 Ultra, latest drivers) does this too. I thought it was so annoying that I passed over Amarrians as my first choice for race. Admittedly, Some Minmatar structures do this too but not anything like as bad as Amarr. I find it very annoying, to the point I not only avoided being Amarrian, but even now I avoid there ships, there stations, pretty much any area of space they own. I'm totattly absorbed into EVE 98% of the time having an absoulute blast then all of sudden you're torn from all that back to reality when you see a ship full of broken textures or a station flickering like a dodgy screens refresh rate. Of all the niggly little bugs that many MMORPG's have I think most of us would forgive many of them providing we had some lush graphics and a lightning FPS. So they nerf a Missile here and there, so what I'll just use a different weapon until you unnerf it. But hey! Before you do!? can you FIX THE GRAPHICS??!! Thank You
Commander Stringer	Posted - 2005.08.02 20:56:00 - [11] Edited by: Commander Stringer on 02/08/2005 20:57:40 This is a known issue and has been for along time. It can be reduced with a bit of modding. First.. navigate to your Eve\Cache folder and make a copy of prefs.ini Second.. Add a line at the top of the prefs.ini reading advancedDevice=1 (please note the captial D IS important) Start eve and open the escape menu On the graphics tab you will notice that the number of options you can tweak has increased. change the Depth/Stencil buffer to 32-bit z-buffer with 8-bit stencil change present interval to Interval Immediate (this will increase your fps..interval immediate is equivalent to no vsync) I've no idea what multisample rate does so leave it disabled. Flickering on amarr stations should be decreased/gone DOH, i see you did that but those settings sorted it for me on an FX5600, GF3 and GF4 Ti4800 ........ 'Blow your own trumpet 'cuz no other fecker is going to do it for you'
John Panek	Posted - 2005.08.11 11:51:00 - [12] Multisample rate = AA Can anyone else confirm that this helps? I am tired of flickering or seeing through planets.
SpeedoMan	Posted - 2005.08.11 14:07:00 - [13] Messing with multisampling will not help this particular problem. It is indeed antialiasing, but this just smooths the edges of pixels so you get what looks like smooth edges and curves around things, instead of straight lines and visible square pixels. For nVidia cards, one thing I've noticed that can make a HUGE difference on how EVE looks (but might lower FPS), is setting the texture quality/compression. Right click on desktop > Properties > Settings > advanced button > ...get into your video cards setup/control panel window. You should have a slider bar for graphics quality to choose between "Performance" and "Quality". Adjust that however... BUT there should also be a dropdown selector box for texture - Highest, Higher, Medium, Lower, Lowest.... or something similar. Leave that as high as you can stomach. If you put it too low, you end up with every image, icon, button, and even text in EVE being so mangled & fuzzy you can't see a thing. I really only notice Amarr ship/station problems while on my laptop, with an Intel Extreme 2 graphics adapter (integrated & shared mem)... which is pretty sucky I'm sure. My desktop with a GF4 Ti4400 128mb DDR runs EVE a bit faster (same CPU speed) and higher quality, and never has any Amarr texture problems. The laptop problems are usually not a white texture-mangled sprite, but the Z/W buffer problems are there, and most of the station textures are replaced by just flat "material" colors, without specularity and such. Soban... red all the way through and through
John Panek	Posted - 2005.08.11 14:18:00 - [14] Oh, I meant if someone can confirm that selecting the 32 buffer with 8 bit helps the flickering. I know that AA has no effect on this :)
Firebreak	Posted - 2005.08.11 16:33:00 - [15] Edited by: Firebreak on 11/08/2005 16:33:21 Edited by: Firebreak on 11/08/2005 16:33:09 This happens to me as well. I looked at that screenshot and I have not seen anything quite that severe, but it's basically the same. Only for me the glitches show on little pieces of the station and flash very quickly. I don't see it engulf the whole station like in the screenshot. EDIT: BFG 6800OC -------------------- 5, 6, 7, 8! Who do we... uhhh.. I can't think of anything that rhymes with 8!
John Panek	Posted - 2005.08.12 06:50:00 - [16] Yes Firebreak, I have the same problems as you. It was solved by using W buffer, but then you can see through planets with rings. It depends on what you like better. See through planets or flickering stations. I chose the first one as less worse. So I have reduced flickering, but can see through planets.
Tyto	Posted - 2005.08.15 22:56:00 - [17] Hmm, this looks similar. I run in windowed using a GeForce 5900XT. Can anybody please help? Certain Amarr systems do this weird spangly thing (you'll notice I am in the PFM and in Amarr and then getting 1 frame every 10s! ), while at other times, especially near to gates, asteroids and the like the second pic happens. The camera is so far away that all I can see is the icons in the top middle of the screen (on the screenie you can see I am in trouble with a nasty ebil rat at the time too, nice). Any ideas anyone? Flying on instruments isn't easy. Linkage "Dulce Bellum Inexpertis"
Gretchen Dawntreader	Posted - 2005.08.16 13:13:00 - [18] I have a kind of wavering flickering effect on the surface of some Amarr stations that have curved surfaces, kind of a crinkling effect. In EQII, this was referred to as a LOD issue...two or more layered textures arguing with each other as to which should be on top. Not optimal, but I can deal with it. So far I haven't seen any other objects effected this way, and I look at moons and planets more than I look at Amarr stations. I have 6800GT and play with high settings at 1600x1200 and the graphics look great except for this. And with almost no lag!
Dayon	Posted - 2005.08.16 18:39:00 - [19] Exactly Gretchen that is what I have been experiencing not to bad of a flicker but the curved surfaces on the lower part of the stations are blinking. I will try what the other suggest. GF 7800 GTX 256MB 1600x1200 windowed (for some reason 1920x1200 in windowed is running extremely slow any other have this problem? )
Daniel Jackson	Posted - 2005.08.16 19:37:00 - [20] Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 16/08/2005 19:39:26 I am using: ATi x850 XT 256mb AGP vid card with EVE Settings: DISPLAY MODE SETTINGS Windowed or Fullscreen: Window Mode Color Depth: 24-bit color with 8-bit alpha (A8R8G8B8) Window Size: 1280x1024 Depth/Stencil Format: 32-bit z-buffer with 8-bit stencil Depth Buffer Type: Z Buffer DEVICE SETTINGS MultiSample Type: Enable multisample quality MultiSample Quality: 2 Present Interval: Interval immediate DISPLAY SETUP [ ] Widescreen (unchecked) [x] Dither (checked) [ ] Use LOD (unchecked) ========================================================= and the amarr stations textures still flicker :P Caldari will once again rise above the Gallente and take back Caldari Prime! Image done by Denrace
Wolverine PL	Posted - 2005.08.16 20:44:00 - [21] what "Use LOD" is for?
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2005.08.16 20:56:00 - [22] I also have this issue. I have found that changing the game to fullscreen then switching back to Windowed (or the other way around) cuts down a lot on the amount of "flickering." I still get some stations flickering, but sometimes they don't. When I first logon I always have to do what I mentioned above, because the whole game just flickers constantly. On an Nvidia 128MB 5200FX (I updated drivers as well). I have the game on near lowest settings visually.
Daniel Jackson	Posted - 2005.08.16 21:15:00 - [23] Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 16/08/2005 21:20:48 Originally by: Wolverine PL what "Use LOD" is for? turn it off if u want to see objects when u are zoomed out, when u have it on the objects and your ship dissapear when u zoom out far enoth as in your ship becomes like a white dot with LOD on. but with LOD off, u can still see your ship, but very small and far like in real life kinda. Caldari will once again rise above the Gallente and take back Caldari Prime! Image done by Denrace
Daniel Jackson	Posted - 2005.08.16 21:16:00 - [24] Edited by: Daniel Jackson on 16/08/2005 21:17:34 Damn, doubble post due to lag on fourms Caldari will once again rise above the Gallente and take back Caldari Prime! Image done by Denrace
Sir Anntros	Posted - 2005.08.16 21:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Wolverine PL what "Use LOD" is for? Normally it means "Level Of Detail". On the problem side: I have a MSI NX7800GTX, with all details on : problem persists. I had a ATI Radeon 9800 PRO a few months ago : problem persists. I think we wont get rid of this problem in the near future...
Original Prankster	Posted - 2005.08.16 21:29:00 - [26] Am also getting this on the amarr shuttle.. looking at it from behind on the left wing. the flat part flickers And most amarr stations flickers everywhere have a 6800 pci express
Batar Fireheart	Posted - 2005.08.16 22:05:00 - [27] hi Chris I have been playing the last 2 years and have alway gotten this effect i thought maybe it was my nvidia drivers but that wasnt it, thought it it was my settings but after many different setings changes i finally gave up fighting it.. then about 2 months ago my monitor went on the fritz so I upgraded to a larger crt monitor 19 inch @ 1600x 1220 res and the flickering has decreased quite considerably.. there is still some flickering but not as bad 19" Insignia crt monitor "MAY YOUR WALLET BE FULL OF ISK AND YOUR CANNONS BLESSED"
Adira Saxx	Posted - 2006.02.13 15:50:00 - [28] Same issue, with an ATI 9250. I had a long e-mail conversation with support about this about 6 months back. I tried about 50 drivers from different places and of different versions. I tried all card and eve settings. Nothings got rid of the seizure-inducing amarran flickers. Suppport agreed that everything on my computer was correctly set up and that it should work. Eventually, nothing came out of all that testing, tweaking and e-mailing back and forth. All I basically got was a comment along the lines "our 9200-series card works fine so there's nothing we can do". Since this is a very select problem, appearing not only on certain specific objects, but just a few select parts of these objects - I'm sure the problem could be handled. If one end of an Amarran station can look fine, there's no reason the others can't be remodelled or retextured to look equally fine - and solve the issue. It does however seem to be an extremely low priority fix - if a fix is actually planned at all. In the meantime I, like many others, avoid the Amarr race and choose not to visit the Amarran stations. Shame really.
Sonya Rayner	Posted - 2006.02.13 16:42:00 - [29] I`ve got amarrian stations flickering too, but don`t mind it (event i thought that might be problem with "garbage" since my r9200 is heavily OCed) :) I remember seeng this with my old one, gf2mx400 though... However not everyone amarrian station flickers. ________________________________________________ The truth is out there... ...Seek it out!
Zant Suken	Posted - 2006.02.19 00:50:00 - [30] I have the same problem. Running: NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200, Full-Screen (also happens in windowed mode), 1024 x 768, 32 Bit color. -Zant
HEBORIC	Posted - 2006.02.19 09:39:00 - [31] Also same problem. Amar shuttle has a flickering left wing and some stations flicker. I have tried al options mentioned above, but it didn't help. - ATI X800 Pro running on 2.6 p4, 17' lcd seems to me a lot of people are experiencing this. Can somebody get a count how many people? (a poll maybe?)
Pondor Stibbons	Posted - 2006.02.19 09:54:00 - [32] Linkage Originally by: Cvuos "We're fighting rocks people, fit those T2 papers!"
Mendacity	Posted - 2006.03.06 04:50:00 - [33] I'm encountering this problem too. Although not as severe as some others are experiencing.
Commander Panda	Posted - 2006.03.06 09:16:00 - [34] I too am experiencing this, my partner and I both agree the effect is similar to hundreds of bats moving quickly past the surface :) Hardware: Geforce 6800GX, 81.98 WHQL Nvidia drivers, Windows XP, 1gb mem. Screen: Full Screen 24 bit colour with 8 bit alpha 1280x1024 32 bit Z buffer with 8 bit stencil 75hz Most Amarrian stations are affected, but Amarr ships do not appear to suffer the problem for me at this time.
Brutal Butcher	Posted - 2006.03.06 09:40:00 - [35] Originally by: Pondor Stibbons Linkage this is not the solution... ___________________________________ agent quote Quote: Not bad. You've just saved a few of our disease-ridden slaves being released from captivity, we are proud of you! no problem :D Disease ridden vermin ftw! - Cortes
Keav	Posted - 2006.03.06 17:10:00 - [36] I'm not getting flickering but ships and stations do disapear all together! Happens about 1 in 5 times I undock. I can't see the station I just undocked from or any ships, including my own. Everything is still normal in the overview. This remains until I dock again. If I re-dock and undock again it's normally ok. Can we have another patch please The Imperial Space Corporation is a recruitment agency. Contact me or visit our website for details.
Rohenus	Posted - 2006.03.06 17:29:00 - [37] got the same problem aswell,but only when my ship is moving, when standing perfectly still, the textures stop fighting I think :) anyway, totally doesn't anoy me at all, and I only have it on space stations... setup: 6600GT AGP,AMD 2400+,768DDR RAM, running all at highest in 1280x1024 ~ toasted! ~
Centurin	Posted - 2006.03.06 19:32:00 - [38] Edited by: Centurin on 06/03/2006 19:32:28 It's nice to know that I'm not the only one experiancing this problem. I get it at select Amarr stations and on ships from time to time.
Carfax	Posted - 2006.03.07 16:23:00 - [39] This problem has existed for years. It occurred when i had a Geforce 3 card and it still occurs now i have an ATI 9800 pro. It will never be fixed ======================================== 10 million isk to the first pilot to bring me the announcers frozen corpse ========================================
BaJaiah	Posted - 2006.03.08 15:21:00 - [40] Edited by: BaJaiah on 08/03/2006 15:25:15 As specified before - the cause of this problem is that the Z-buffer isn't preciese enough for the very large view distances in EVE. However this is only a problem if you put polygons to close to eachother in the models, in regards to the Z-buffer precision. So in other words - CCP could fix it by making models which dosn't have polygons you're never supposed to see anyway. Which would in fact also increase FPS a bit because your GF-card would be left with rendering fewer polygons. It might sacrifice a tiny bit of detail on some models though. As most of you guys have said - it's mostly Amarr space station models that have the flickering issue. It's not your fault - it's the 3D models of the stations... A wastly simplified example - a cross-section of a model with unseen polygons inside it: ______ \|_\|____\| \|á\| \|á\| \|_\| Should be modeled like this: ______ \|áá____\| \|á\| \|á\| \|_\| And if stencil is still a problem due to the polygons that are suppposed to be rendered are still to close : _______ \|ááá____\| \|áá\| \|áá\| \|_\| Q.E.D.
Starmonger	Posted - 2006.03.11 04:31:00 - [41] I also suffer from this same texture problem only on certain stations. im using an x850 xt. please solve this issue becuase it sucks so much. a bit of effort from ccp = many happy customers
Victor Edoran	Posted - 2006.03.13 20:38:00 - [42] I have flickering textures on amarr stations and amarr shuttle. 7800gt sli 1920x1200 res 60hz vsync on I understand that it's due to the model construction. Would be nice to see an update fixing the geometries of these models to correct the zbuffer flickering. I would love to see a DVD version of the client with high res textures and other model updates. I would gladly pay for it. Have you ever looked at the caldari shuttle? ever notice the left and right sides are not perfectly congruent? one wing is slightly off compaired to the other side.

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