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Rendel
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Posted - 2003.07.19 13:03:00 -
[1]
Today - 3 minutes after server start up the total fair prieced robotics supply in The Citadel region were out of stock. This i a volumen of 7.8 bilion isk (with 4%-9% earnings).By the very short time this can be done by a very few players or corps only.
They became rich an richer erery day abd ther is nothing left to trade for others (as me).
Sorry, but I don't pay for eve to have 3min a day for trading, and I can't magage to hit the time slot.
Please change something in your trading system to give all players a good posssibility to trade, not only the big fishes. E.g. by generating the supply on a time base and not only at server start up.
Annoyed :(, Rendel
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Muacha
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Posted - 2003.07.19 13:56:00 -
[2]
What makes you think the supply for each and every item will refresh with every server restart?? My experience has been that once a solar system is pulled dry...it takes a couple of days to build up the supplies again. Sure there might be a few of the items I'm looking for, but not enough to fill my cargo hold. This makes sense from a role playing standpoint as it takes time to build these things. BTW, I'm NOT trading in robotics so perhaps it's different.
*edited upon reread....I hate when that happens
Edited by: Muacha on 19/07/2003 17:13:59
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nono
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Posted - 2003.07.19 17:21:00 -
[3]
WOW! A whole three minutes? Someone was slow.
I'm amazed you saw any at all. Just put the orders in before server down and you wont see any action at all. Buy orders at the supply end and sell orders at the demand end. Server resets and the sales go through as if they never were there in the first place.
It's always been like this. Not so long ago (since live) the big cry was the uber corps were sucking the mineral demand dry by doing the very same thing. Sell orders placed before reset would zero the demand when they came up.
If you know where the supply is then put in a buy order for a higher price. Just check the "show table" to see what the other guys buy order is and bid higher. Same on the sell end put in your advance sell order 1 isk lower and yours sell first.
It's the way it was designed. The only flaw in the system is the stupid time factor. It has nothing to do with who can get on first at server start but who can get in last before server downtime.
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Ends
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Posted - 2003.07.19 19:52:00 -
[4]
Guys simple trick, its a market right? Increase your bid over the minimum. If you know it sells for X isk then put in a bid for X isk + 5%. That is how your losing business on your orders everyone else has this figured out and is slightly outbidding you. :P
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Rendel
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Posted - 2003.07.20 17:22:00 -
[5]
Muacha - your right - but:
1. trading goods must be transported, there are some mostly fix source systems, and also mostly fix drain systems.
2. your system can only used to buy some good, but the high earnings with robotik are done by good sell prices. This can be done only if you are at the right time (3min after server up) at the right station, or can transport you goods very fast.
3. the order system hase some big bugs - so your system did mot work very well until now.
But - if the bugs will be fixed - it will get much worse. If 20 players make buy orders at the same region - who will get the stuff ? The last ? The first ? or get everyone a 1/20 of the stuff ?
Ends - the typical earnings with robotics are 4% - 9% if you get a very good source or drain. So nobody can work with a 5% increse. In this markes you can only make money with high volumen.
My point is:
By the way is is handled - one person or corp can get big advantage over all other (300 mil isk a day is a big advantage), and they is no way I or all other, which can't be online 3 minutes after server up, can counter it.
This is the definition of an exploit.
May be the most don't care because it is only trading. What will you say if the same can be done on other game aspects ? E.g. if there were a trick someone can get all the loot or all the bounty of a day in a region for hisself, only by logging in as the first ?
:( Rendel
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nono
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Posted - 2003.07.20 17:47:00 -
[6]
""This can be done only if you are at the right time (3min after server up)""
Still stuck in that thinking are you? Did you read anything on this page?
Concentrate on server DOWNTIME not Server UP.
There is no need to even be online when the servers come up as long as your order was placed seconds before downtime at a better buy price. Even when the path is clearly pointed out people refuse to read. I posted and Ends posted essentially the exact same thing two and half hours right below it.
Read the post again it can't be made any clearer then that. Most people wouldn't try to tell you how it works, they would save it for themselves.
Edit: Here I'll post it again so you don't have to go back up
It's the way it was designed. The only flaw in the system is the stupid time factor. It has nothing to do with who can get on first at server start but who can get in last before server downtime.
Edited by: nono on 20/07/2003 17:49:40
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Arianeth
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Posted - 2003.07.21 00:30:00 -
[7]
Why does it matter to get on last before server downtime? Aren't the orders treated in order of price, and then volume? Why is it last-in-first-out as you are implying? I don't get it. |
nono
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Posted - 2003.07.21 03:45:00 -
[8]
It matters in this way.
You have a buy order for say 10 isk per unit. The price the npc is asking for for said unit.
Upon server reset or uptime you get your order filled for however many you put in.
Now if I come along just before the server goes down and put my order in for 11 isk mine will be filled before yours when the server comes up. Get it?
So in the stupid robotics war you only need to be the last one to place your order before the server goes down. You only need to check what orders have already been put in the system. You do this by checking "show table" and it will show you supply and demand orders in the system,constellation, or region. Whatever you select.
The same works on the sell end. If your price is 1 isk lower yours will sell first.
You may very well be waiting in the station at server uptime and never see the item you are waiting for because it was already purchased the moment the server came up. The same goes for when your looking to sell and there is apparently no demand, as the moment the server comes up the orders that are in the que to sell absorb all the demand.
The retardation is the predictability of server up and downtime resets. This is where the fundamental flaw is in the system. Granted you can't be everywhere at once but think of it as a team effort. I happen to be solo but many corps can be at many places at once. It takes some investigation and planning but thats how it's done.
Edited by: nono on 21/07/2003 04:04:56
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Muacha
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Posted - 2003.07.21 04:02:00 -
[9]
Hmmm...on the goods I trade, I don't place buy and sell orders at all. Maybe I'll try it. Even without buy and sell orders, I can find the supply and demand for the goods in which I'm trading. Now, sometimes it takes a couple of days for the goods to build up (on the supply side) and reach their max sales value (on the demand side) but it happens and you can watch it build up over a couple of days. With no activity, on the supply side price drops and quantities increase, demand side, prices and quantities increase.
So my suggestion is simply to switch goods. Find a different trade route, transport something other than robotics....there are plenty of other choices.
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nono
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Posted - 2003.07.21 04:07:00 -
[10]
I don't trade =] sorry I did once and only once. Might pick it up again but the booze market was the same. This is how I discovered what was happening to supply and demand.
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Chiana Farscape
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:06:00 -
[11]
nono - your approach does not alter the fact that you need to be online at a certain time.
It doesn't make any difference if it's before or after downtime - the problem is that it's a short window of opportunity. Effectively preventing anyone not online at that time to have any chance of getting into the trade business.
I have been able to find traderoutes later in the evening myself, but atm I'm too bored to play much anyway.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:47:00 -
[12]
Why even bother trading robotics anyway? It's like n the early retail days, all the noob miners wanted Omber, because it had the highest ticket price. Before long all the omber was gone, and people were complaining that without omber, they couldn't mine.
You *can* mine without Omber, and you *can* trade without robotics.
If you're not at the top of the robotics trading ladder, then switch ladders.
More profitable runs will soon emerge, until someone spams up that they can earn 40 million per day with item X, and half the population flock to it.
People are no more entitled to trade robotics than they are to mine arkanor. It's there, but you have to be the first to get it.. What's the point of trading if you can't one day corner the market?
Admittedly, the downtime respawning should stop, and become truly random, but that won't stop people getting beaten to it, will it?
.
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nono
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Posted - 2003.07.21 14:36:00 -
[13]
""It doesn't make any difference if it's before or after downtime - the problem is that it's a short window of opportunity. Effectively preventing anyone not online at that time to have any chance of getting into the trade business.""
Didn't I say something about the time? I think I called it retarded didn't I ?
And the way it is I clearly showed it makes all the difference to be the last -before downtime- to put your order in, not the first at server uptime.
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.07.21 15:24:00 -
[14]
nono, the essential point, which you are proving, is that being on at a certain point in time for a certain window is the key to success.
The real problem with this being that it's always the SAME time.
You are arguing whether that time is 12:01 GMT or 10:55 GMT. The essential point is the same. If you don't see that as a problem, that's
1) different that what you are saying entirely, although we all recognize you for the master trader you were, okay? :D and
2) because you probably live somewhere more compatible with that time GMT.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
nono
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Posted - 2003.07.21 16:25:00 -
[15]
Sorry I'm not trying to argue.
I completely agree and state that the whole time thing is the problem. No doubt about it.
I'm EST and when the server goes down it's 7am and comes up at 8am. On dayshift I'm long gone in the morning so it affords me no advantage iether way. On afternoon shift perhaps I have the advantage to catch the reset if in fact I did bother trading.
I'm all for random times and random places if that would be the answer. As it is now we can all play set the alarm and click the regional buy order before it goes down (time zone and work provided). Thats all I was pointing out.
""If you don't see that as a problem, that's""
I do see the problem,
"The retardation is the predictability of server up and downtime resets. This is where the fundamental flaw is in the system."
Edited by: nono on 21/07/2003 16:27:42
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Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2003.07.21 16:31:00 -
[16]
Hmm.. Server goes down while i'm sleeping. No wonder i've never had any luck trading commodities.
No matter what is going on. Server Downtime shouldn't be a time to restock anything. Things should restock at random times and in random places during the day. Not during downtime.
But yeah.. Buy Orders kind of rule out any downtime advantage. You can always compete for that new stock through buy orders.
Edited by: Mr nStuff on 21/07/2003 16:34:54
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
snotty
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Posted - 2003.07.21 17:04:00 -
[17]
i tryed it,
saw the demand at one station and thought, ok place order, demand +1, wait what happens...
next day one nice piece of robotics in my hanger for 6111 in stead of 6110.
The real thing im curious about is if i can sell it the same way, put it on market at a known location for NPC -1, even if there is no "current" demand.
If so all your "whining" is pointless...
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nono
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Posted - 2003.07.21 17:14:00 -
[18]
Just uncheck show all, select robotics or whatever and place your sell order for 1 isk less. You do need to know where the demand will be.
If there is no demand you have to uncheck show all in order to see the item in the list. Also check the table to see if other orders have been placed so you can offer yours at a lower price. By checking the table you can also see where the demand is as not many people place sell orders at NPC stations that don't have buy orders in the morning.
If your real curious to see who is buying or selling just sell them one or buy one from them. It all shows in the wallet.
Edited by: nono on 21/07/2003 17:16:23
Edited by: nono on 21/07/2003 17:18:37
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BSOD
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Posted - 2003.07.21 17:33:00 -
[19]
What we really need is the ability to display sales volumes (units sold/bought in last 24h at what price) instead of static supply/demand.
This makes it possible to see where the trade goods are available, and also makes it possible for manufacturers to gauge what items are in high demand in their region. (Does ANYONE ever place a buy order for ship equipment? Everyone I know travels a bit and goes for immediate gratification from the best sell order.)
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