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Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.08.01 07:17:00 -
[1]
I see many people posting in various threads saying they break the tank of higher end bs's no worries with cruise missiles... I've tried myself, many many times, and can't get even close. I'd prefer to take cruises on the raven now since it gives me a better go at cruisers, while the drones take care of frigates. So, someone out there who has no worries doing this, please enlighten me on how to do it, i'm just praying i'm not told "you need 3 cal navy bcs units..." cause i really can't afford that atm.
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2005.08.01 07:34:00 -
[2]
1. Train Caldari BS to 5
2. Train Cruise to 5
3. Train New Missile skills all to 4
4. Put on 5 Ballistic Controls
5. Get named cruise launchers or Tech II www.hadean.org
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Moominer
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Posted - 2005.08.01 07:39:00 -
[3]
I can quite easily solo dual BS spawns in 0.0 with:
- Caldari BS 4 - Cruise Missile 4 - New Missile skills at 3 or 4 - Standard Tech1 Cruise launchers - 2x BCU 3x PDU - 4x Hardened Large Shield Boost II + Amp tank - Drones for anti-frigate/ceptor
This is using all stock modules (bar the Tech2 Large shield booster) and only average skills. With better skills and better modules this is quite easily improved. Raven for 0.0 belt ratting is far from usless.
I would not suggest using this for Lvl4 Missions where the number of frigs/cruisers way way outnumber the battleships, battleship tanks can be quite evil and defender spam kills your DPS.
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Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.08.01 07:40:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dryxonedes Sae on 01/08/2005 07:41:41 I've already got the new skills to 4, cruises at 4, raven at 3, and am using limo's launchers, so it's going to be a long arse haul before i can hope to achieve this feat? bugger eh.... thanks for the enlightenment though.
Edit.... I guess if the damage mod on bcs units was working that might help me a little since i normally run 2 bcs's. Don't know how much though.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.08.01 12:40:00 -
[5]
It could be worse...I asked for a good level 4 setup for a Raven in another thread, and someone replied;
"Here is my setup;
Caldari Navy Raven..."
I lost interest after that... ========================================= * I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. * ========================================= |
Dave Toz
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Posted - 2005.08.01 13:47:00 -
[6]
u using Target Painters? |
Hellraiza666
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Posted - 2005.08.01 14:14:00 -
[7]
i was praticing around with npc raven set ups and i came with 1 that cruise insta killed ceptors also
6 cruise and 2 small guns 1 large shiled booster 3 hardeners (should be enough for npcing) 2 webbers
5 bcu's
now i know this probably aint the best vs the bigger spawns, but this set up is great for spawns with lots of cruisers and frigs. --------------------------------------------
In War There Are No Runners Up...
Image by Denrace |
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.08.01 14:28:00 -
[8]
Said it before, and I'll say it again...
Six named cruise launchers (Limos will do), two stock ballistics, and decent skills will ***** the tank of a Dread Pith Usurper without any trouble.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.01 14:31:00 -
[9]
Edited by: X''Alor on 01/08/2005 14:33:17 1 skill will help you emensely.
Advanced Weapons Upgrades.
Yes it is a bit demanding for you at this time training wise probably but WELL worth it for raven fittings.
6 arbelest cruise/2 modulated mega beams XL t2/2xAmps/2 hardeners/Cap recharger 5xPDS 2's
6 arby cruise/2 mega modulated pulses same mids 4xPDS 2's/bcu
The better named guns/launchers have less power fitting reqs in most cases and are worth it just for that reason.
Edit: And train up your drone skills. 8 medium drones will do more damage than two small guns. Drones drones drones for any small ships close.
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Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.08.01 15:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Darkwolf Said it before, and I'll say it again...
Six named cruise launchers (Limos will do), two stock ballistics, and decent skills will ***** the tank of a Dread Pith Usurper without any trouble.
Shy of having the skills max'd that's exactly what i do run, and i don't get close.... Do you count "decent" as cruise lvl 5 with spec lvl 4 by chance?
And yeah, i've tried the painters, nice on cruisers with cruise missiles, but obviously cause of the explosion radius and speed on a cruise being beyond what a bs can protect itself from, it makes no diff on them, and they are what i am having trouble with.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.01 16:29:00 -
[11]
I didn't notice a whole lot difference with painters myself but who knows.
curious tho. what is your setup?
Cruise Spec 4.
Are you using cruise launchers. The skill is only supposed to apply to T2 launchers. Currently(as of last week) with both arby launcher and T2 launcher fitted side by side had same RoF.
that means the skill works for both launcher sets or it's not working at all........ I'm sure something will change there and hopefully soon(tm).
T2 launchers take up more power for same RoF as arbies. Something is wrong there...... or was wrong last week.
lvl 4 of that skill the T2 cruise launcher supposed to be 8% fast RoF than the arby cruise.
If you're having trouples doing damage over time all you can do to better that is
1. add BCS's
2. add faster launchers
3. Train the BS skill if not maxed
4. train target navigation to 5
5. train missle projection to 5
6. Cruise missle spec skill and hope it works.
7. fit any 2 large guns that you can.
8. Stagger fire. Use all damage type missles and switch out to the ones that hit hardest for your targets resistances.
Other than that, not sure hwat else you can do.
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slip66
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Posted - 2005.08.01 16:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: slip66 on 01/08/2005 16:44:40 Im still using using named seige & torps with a named BCU with bs 4 and missile skills at 4. I am nearly as good as prior to the patch. You just have to adjust for killing frigs with somethign else and cruisers taking longer once they get into a closer orbit.
this is against normal npcs not agents though.
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Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.08.01 16:47:00 -
[13]
Thanks all for the assists, i've been playing with some numbers, and i think once someone gets around to fixing the bcs damage bonus, i'll probably be ok.... hopefully...
As for what i think was a misunderstanding, i don't have cruise lvl 5 and spec lvl 4.... was a sarcastic comment about what is rated as "decent". I'm only using cruise lvl 4.
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Abbadonuk
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Posted - 2005.08.01 19:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: X'Alor I didn't notice a whole lot difference with painters myself but who knows.
curious tho. what is your setup?
Cruise Spec 4.
Are you using cruise launchers. The skill is only supposed to apply to T2 launchers. Currently(as of last week) with both arby launcher and T2 launcher fitted side by side had same RoF.
that means the skill works for both launcher sets or it's not working at all........ I'm sure something will change there and hopefully soon(tm).
T2 launchers take up more power for same RoF as arbies. Something is wrong there...... or was wrong last week.
lvl 4 of that skill the T2 cruise launcher supposed to be 8% fast RoF than the arby cruise.
If you're having trouples doing damage over time all you can do to better that is
1. add BCS's
2. add faster launchers
3. Train the BS skill if not maxed
4. train target navigation to 5
5. train missle projection to 5
6. Cruise missle spec skill and hope it works.
7. fit any 2 large guns that you can.
8. Stagger fire. Use all damage type missles and switch out to the ones that hit hardest for your targets resistances.
Other than that, not sure hwat else you can do.
The spec skill makes no mention of Tech2 launchers, it says 2% ROF for Cruise launchers so I guess it is intended to help replace the old standard missile bonus "added to the 3% from rapid fire it equals the old 5% per level bonus".
Tech2 weapons always use more grid than best named, this is to keep some value to having best named.
For increasng damage, range tends to be your friend, engage from a good range and the smaller ships tend to use MWD to reach you and you will do a lot more damage while their sig is boosted by MWD.
With good skills and either 6 arby or tech2 cruise launchers mixed rat spawns should be no problem. I won't detail my setup "bit on the extreme side" but l4 missions are doable even if they now take a lot longer and some inty type rats are a real pain in the a$$.
Member of Lunar Dawn
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.02 14:14:00 -
[15]
Not to debate you are very mistaken about the T2 guns. all the T2 guns use more power because they do MORE damage.
the same was intended with the T2 launchers. more RoF = more damage.
One of the Dev's made a comment in one of the stickies about it that is no longer sticked and they did say the skill is supposed to only apply to the T2 launchers.
And yes the skill makes no mention of that "currently"
So something is not working properly and the description is not worded properly.
Don't be surprised when it changes soon(tm).
And the best named guns hold there value over T2 cuz of the training requirements of the T2 guns not because of their fitting. it's because they can be used by more people, more people = higher demand and use = higher value held.
Why on earth would anyone want to even put a T2 launcher on any ship if they can use a T1 and get the same bonus without all the fitting reqs.
It's a T2 weapon for christ sake, it better be better and don't make me bring out the better be better beater to prove it.
That is stupid and there is no advantage of using a T2 launcher and there is every advantage to using T2 guns.
The T2 bonus for any gun spec only applies to T2 guns.
come on think and or read a bit before making comments like that.
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2005.08.02 14:40:00 -
[16]
AFAIK the T2 cruise spec skill works, but affects all missiles (wish I didn't sell those dread cruises now :( ). A wild stab in the dark: this is a bug - it should only affect the tech 2 launchers.
A cruise raven is much more skill intensive than a torp raven, but it does give certain benefits (and IMO is a better all round setup than a torp raven).
Guided missile precision is an essential skill (and it doesn't affect torps). It will get cruise radius down to 225 at lvl 5, which means a cruise should be doing more dmg vs a cruiser than a heavy missile would.
Also, the thing to remember about breaking a tank is a couple of extra percent tends to make all the difference. When I was messing around with different lvl 4 raven setups, using all mulkuths and 2 BCUs it took me 3/4 reloads of cruise missiles to take the guy at the end vengance down. Switchign to Cruise II, it took me about 14 volleys. That's only a 15% difference in ROF.
Anyway, a torp raven is a better choice if you're going up against predominantly battleships.
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Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.08.02 17:37:00 -
[17]
For increasng damage, range tends to be your friend, engage from a good range and the smaller ships tend to use MWD to reach you and you will do a lot more damage while their sig is boosted by MWD.
Wrong..... Even with all the skills at lvl 4, once a frig or cruiser fires a mwd, missile damage disappears from cruises/torps completely. That's because once you breach the sig radius/explosion radius side, more doesn't matter, your speed however, continues to reduce it further the faster you go, this is why they're fubar'd at any range. Close up you can web them to counter speed and hammer home at 100% on that side, at range you can pray on the mwd to increase the sig radius, either way your hollowed out on one side.
Anyway, that's not the point of this thread :) Looks like i'll have to wait till i finish the gunnery stuff for my harpy, then go to advanced lvl 4 with them. I'd guess once the bcs units are fixed, and that extra RoF, it "MIGHT" get me there.... here's to hoping
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R3dSh1ft
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Posted - 2005.08.02 23:57:00 -
[18]
Cruise raven don't need uber equipment to do good damage, but there's a couple of things u need to be aware of:
1. Defenders will stop cruise with 1 hit (instead of 2 for torp) so blow out all your cruise missiles together to reduce the window of fire on your ammo. It may also be necessary to close to low range (10km ish) at which point defenders become useless.
2. Make sure you are using the correct damage type for the guy you're trying to kill (i assume ur talking about NPCs), you can find out everything at www.eve-i.com (object explorer -> pirates drones -> faction etc etc)
3. Use some heavy drones to bolster the damage you are doing, this again means u have to be close to the BS you are fighting.
SKILLS: the new missile skills at 3/4, cruise missiles at 3, caldari BS at 3 and you can still kill big fat BS with megatanks if you keep the above in mind...
GL and if you're anywhere near Niyabainen contact me ingame and i'll show ya what i mean
R3dSh1ft, I want the same thing as every other player in EVE; fame and fortune |
Abbadonuk
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Posted - 2005.08.03 20:14:00 -
[19]
X'Alor you give exactly the same bonuses as I did and try to use it as an arguament that i got it wrong?
Originally by: X'Alor
And you are also mistaken about the skills.
Missle operation: 2% per skill lvl
Rapid launch 3% per skill lvl
both together = the same 5% RoF bonus. Both at 5 is = to where we were before patch.
Against.
Originally by: Abbadonuk
The spec skill makes no mention of Tech2 launchers, it says 2% ROF for Cruise launchers so I guess it is intended to help replace the old standard missile bonus "added to the 3% from rapid fire it equals the old 5% per level bonus".
You also say T2 guns have higher fitting recs because they do more damage, well so do T2 cruise compared with Arby cruise, T2 hold 26 missiles where as Arby hold 20, this means less reloads which = higher DOT.
It doesn't hurt to think about what others post before going into full on troll mode you know, you should try it sometime.
Dryxonedes Sae,
Hate to dissapoint you but, The effect of sig radius is far greater than the effect of speed except at extremly high speeds. As a result cruise missiles do a lot more damage to frigs "Note I say frigs not Inty's" and cruiser's when they have MWD running. On average I find if I am doing 45 damage to a frig when it is travelling at non MWD speeds I will do 120 to 130 when it has its MWD on.
The only NPC rats I have any real problem with are the little drones that MWD at 5k, these I can hit for 40 damage when moving slowly and 1 damage when they are doing 5k.
Torps however seem to be an expensive ornament post patch and nothing seems to help them very much.
Member of Lunar Dawn
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.04 15:52:00 -
[20]
Edited by: X''Alor on 04/08/2005 16:08:14 LMFAO
What don't you understand about you only listed two skills and I listed three.
Missle laucher operation 2 % bonus to laucher RoF per lvl(ya know the basic main skill you need to use launchers in the first place)
Rapid Launch 3% to laucher RoF per lvl of skill
The two together at lvl 5 both skills is = to what we had before patch, not including anything to do with any spec skill.
What about missle launcher operation?????
now if you train
rocket spec
light missle spec
heavy spec
torpedo spec
and cruise spec
for any T2 launcher weapon.
you are supposed to get an """"***** additional *****"""" 2% launcher RoF per lvl of spec skill for that size laucher and as stated by the dev's "to tech 2 missle launchers" as stated in the missle nerf sticky no matter what current skill description says.
again read "all" the missle skills. I would think someone who has a scorp in their sig would be up to date with all the new bonuses to missle skills and how they were intended to apply.
but currently if you fit a T2 cruise launcher and a T2 arby launcher, they both have the same RoF. ????????
What don't you understand about T2 being better than T1 best named?
the standarad of where T2 weapons start is = to the best named gun and only get better "or supposed too" with each lvl of the skill trained. If that skill applies to my arbies then you can count on cruise spec going to five next and arbies just increased 20 mill in price for fitting reqs compared to T2 for same bonus.
Fortunately I only got cruise spec 1 so I can see if it's actually applying the bonus att all. I didn't see any change in RoF of my arbies so I'm suspect it's not working at all, even for the T2's.
We'll see, I'm just about done with a 2 week train.
Agree, disaggree, read the skills or not, don't care. just passing on info I've seen or read. Like it or not not my concern but something is definitely not working properly compared to what dev's have stated.
but seriously, for a scorp pilot I'd figure you'd have read ALL the missle skills to see if any "other" old skills were changed.
Guess you missed that big sticky that lasted for monthes that was continuously updated by the devs as to what was coming with the missle changes that got like 20 pages long.
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.08.04 16:00:00 -
[21]
when you talking about breaking tank - make sure using right damage missile. eve-i is you friend. -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION> |
John Blackthorn
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Posted - 2005.08.04 16:16:00 -
[22]
I would belive that a Raven setup with 4 cruise launhcers, 2 torps, and 2 small (or medium with good tracking) guns would be very good for both npc and pvp fights.
I would one painter in mid slot, and no more than 2 balistic control units in lows.
After the second Balistic control I don't think the increase you get from a third unit is as benificutial as using the slot for something else such as a power diag ii unit, grav sensor booster, or warp core stabs.
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.08.04 16:48:00 -
[23]
Originally by: John Blackthorn
After the second Balistic control I don't think the increase you get from a third unit is as benificutial as using the slot for something else such as a power diag ii unit, grav sensor booster, or warp core stabs.
problem with the current stacking formula is, though it gives less of a 'bonus' in stats, the 3rd (and beyond) module have more effect then the second... so it would seem that going either 1 bcu or 3+ bcu would get the most bang for you slot. -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION> |
Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2005.08.04 19:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: X'Alor
What don't you understand about T2 being better than T1 best named?
the standarad of where T2 weapons start is = to the best named gun and only get better "or supposed too" with each lvl of the skill trained. If that skill applies to my arbies then you can count on cruise spec going to five next and arbies just increased 20 mill in price for fitting reqs compared to T2 for same bonus.
Fortunately I only got cruise spec 1 so I can see if it's actually applying the bonus att all. I didn't see any change in RoF of my arbies so I'm suspect it's not working at all, even for the T2's.
We'll see, I'm just about done with a 2 week train.
Agree, disaggree, read the skills or not, don't care. just passing on info I've seen or read. Like it or not not my concern but something is definitely not working properly compared to what dev's have stated.
but seriously, for a scorp pilot I'd figure you'd have read ALL the missle skills to see if any "other" old skills were changed.
Guess you missed that big sticky that lasted for monthes that was continuously updated by the devs as to what was coming with the missle changes that got like 20 pages long.
The Cruise spec skill is working (at least in my case, and we all know how random these things can be). I calculated it for my skills with my Tech 2 cruise, it came out right. When I next climb in my raven, I'll check it with stock cruise launchers to see what I get with that, I'll post here as soon as I've done it.
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2005.08.04 19:50:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Faster ThanJesus on 04/08/2005 19:53:14 For my skills: Cruise II ROF: 17.6 *0.9 (Launcher Op V) *0.88 (Rapid Launch IV) *0.75 (Cal BS V) *0.94 (Cruise Spec III)= 9.827136 What I'm getting according to EvE: 9.83, which is probably right as it's displaying to 2 dp
Cruise I ROF: 22.0 *0.9 (Launcher Op V) *0.88 (Rapid Launch IV) *0.75 (Cal BS V) = 13.068 What I'm getting fitted: 12.28... okay, 13.068 *.94 (Cruise Spec III) = 12.283..
So, yeah, it is affecting the whole lot. I doubt it will last - and CCP should get it fixed ASAP.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.04 20:52:00 -
[26]
I'm getting 11.3 with arbies right now and got cruise spec 2 underway, should be done by 6:30 or 7PM to lvl 2 and we'll see if it is indeed working on T1 launchers.
got missle op 5 rapid launch 4 cruise 1
I do believe.
Either rapid launch 3 or 4 not sure at this time but am sure about the 11.3 figure.
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marioman
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Posted - 2005.08.04 22:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dryxonedes Sae Edit.... I guess if the damage mod on bcs units was working that might help me a little since i normally run 2 bcs's. Don't know how much though.
Eh? Whats wrong with BCS? i use a CN BCS on my CN Caracal and get the proper dmg/rof
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.04 23:03:00 -
[28]
the problem is arbalest cruise and T2 cruise have same rate of fire.
skill description states it applies to "all cruise launcher" (or any spec skill) despite any gun skill spec only applies to T2 guns.
plus the comment of one dev stating that it is intended to only apply to T2 launchers that we have a hella time searching for.
however after completing cruise missle spec 2 my arbies now have 11.07 from 11.3 with lvl two cruise spec. on it's way to 5.
and what was that comment about dread cruise set ......with spec 4
another problem is both launchers use 2 different power reqs and the spec skill actually makes the arbalest more valuable being it has t1 fitting reqs but yet gets the T2 cruise missle spec bonus allowing you to fit large guns more easily.
Many I hate pointing out flaws in my selected race BS. grrrrrrrr
Carefull using arbalest launchers and training the cruise spec skill as it could be considered an exploit and get you banned for using them.
Not that I'm complaining, I'm good with current mechanics.
Safe to assume for all arby/T2 launchers .... don't own or can use all classes.
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