EVE Search - Farming complexes

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Trelennen	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:32:00 - [1] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle The biggest problems are at the easy complexes, and they are the most important one to keep clean, so corp war wont solve much (could still be fun though). I wrote a suggestion to a solution in this thread. Well, these are not that easy for young players. So if you make all complexes more difficult, you prevent new players to have fun doing them. But still, it's way too easy for experienced players, and being that easy for them with such rewards in them, it's the best time investment for advanced players to make money, and that's the problem. I can't figure out a solution for having complexes doable by young players and still not too easy or unaccessible for more experienced ones (maybe a limit on total SP in navigation, spaceship command, gunnery and other combat skills?). Preventing starter corp people from running complexes is such a great idea... Currently complexes is one of the fun thing a solo or mostly solo player can do with agent running. And you want then to decrease their fun possibility, very nice. Having the complexes in a all respawn, and in another place is a good idea for me. Specialy if at the same time you have a limit of time between two complexes you can run (for each difficulty, higher ones needing more time between two). Make the key not viable outside the complex, and the key holder respawn when key looter has gone outside complex (and then can't enter that kind of complex for x hours). The locking of the entrance gate when there is already a player or a gang inside is imho a good idea. That's one of the reason you see so many jerks in there, who will get in after you and claiming the complex is theirs, and steal you some loot while you're fighting the other pirates, or steal you the boss. Making all complexes in low sec so you can attack that kind of guy? Great, then again you prevent any young player to enjoy a complex, because there will always be a jerk (strangely most of those jerks have 20M+ SP...) who will come, and you won't be able to do anything because you'd have no chance against them. Even worse, imagine you're struggling against those pirates, cause at your leel of skill there is a real challenge a real risk. Then come this *** who just add the little bit damage to what pirates do to kill you. What a big risk for him, gee... Also, given comments in there, I can see that some complexes are more farmed than others, and that is because some drops much better. Serpentis seem to be the best reward complexes, with a good loot each time you can do it with all structures and pirates in it. In addition it seems there is lots of them, at different difficulty levels. Take Sansha's, there's nearly none at difficulty 2/10, instead you have lots of drone complexes. Never anybody in those drone complexes, because only thing you get is some minerals (and not that much). Guess you can do what, 40K ISK running a drone 2/10 complex? I get more in 1/10 sansha only with bountys (and you don't have a good drop each time, far from that, even when you got the complex full of the droping pirates).
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.08.23 16:32:00 - [2] Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle The biggest problems are at the easy complexes, and they are the most important one to keep clean, so corp war wont solve much (could still be fun though). I wrote a suggestion to a solution in this thread. Well, these are not that easy for young players. So if you make all complexes more difficult, you prevent new players to have fun doing them. But still, it's way too easy for experienced players, and being that easy for them with such rewards in them, it's the best time investment for advanced players to make money, and that's the problem. I can't figure out a solution for having complexes doable by young players and still not too easy or unaccessible for more experienced ones (maybe a limit on total SP in navigation, spaceship command, gunnery and other combat skills?). Preventing starter corp people from running complexes is such a great idea... Currently complexes is one of the fun thing a solo or mostly solo player can do with agent running. And you want then to decrease their fun possibility, very nice. Having the complexes in a all respawn, and in another place is a good idea for me. Specialy if at the same time you have a limit of time between two complexes you can run (for each difficulty, higher ones needing more time between two). Make the key not viable outside the complex, and the key holder respawn when key looter has gone outside complex (and then can't enter that kind of complex for x hours). The locking of the entrance gate when there is already a player or a gang inside is imho a good idea. That's one of the reason you see so many jerks in there, who will get in after you and claiming the complex is theirs, and steal you some loot while you're fighting the other pirates, or steal you the boss. Making all complexes in low sec so you can attack that kind of guy? Great, then again you prevent any young player to enjoy a complex, because there will always be a jerk (strangely most of those jerks have 20M+ SP...) who will come, and you won't be able to do anything because you'd have no chance against them. Even worse, imagine you're struggling against those pirates, cause at your leel of skill there is a real challenge a real risk. Then come this *** who just add the little bit damage to what pirates do to kill you. What a big risk for him, gee... Also, given comments in there, I can see that some complexes are more farmed than others, and that is because some drops much better. Serpentis seem to be the best reward complexes, with a good loot each time you can do it with all structures and pirates in it. In addition it seems there is lots of them, at different difficulty levels. Take Sansha's, there's nearly none at difficulty 2/10, instead you have lots of drone complexes. Never anybody in those drone complexes, because only thing you get is some minerals (and not that much). Guess you can do what, 40K ISK running a drone 2/10 complex? I get more in 1/10 sansha only with bountys (and you don't have a good drop each time, far from that, even when you got the complex full of the droping pirates). ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Trelennen	Posted - 2005.08.30 02:05:00 - [3] Originally by: goobet Edited by: goobet on 29/08/2005 19:58:56 just move em out to 0.0 they wont be nearly as crowded. And you would prevent any new player from the fun of them, great! Currently they have not much chance either, with people farming them, but at least they have some opportunity to run them (and definitely running them at a moment where they are really difficult for you given your skills and fitting gives a load of fun! :))
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.08.30 02:05:00 - [4] Originally by: goobet Edited by: goobet on 29/08/2005 19:58:56 just move em out to 0.0 they wont be nearly as crowded. And you would prevent any new player from the fun of them, great! Currently they have not much chance either, with people farming them, but at least they have some opportunity to run them (and definitely running them at a moment where they are really difficult for you given your skills and fitting gives a load of fun! :)) ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Trelennen	Posted - 2005.08.30 19:48:00 - [5] Originally by: HippoKing after this, i felt like a complete bastard, but at the time it seemed the natural thing to do i'm sorry Don't be sorry for this noob but already jerk, you were perfectly right to let him being killed, he was the bastard, not you. Unfortunately i don't think it'll make him learn not to steal people's loot in complexes, but probably only to wait for them to get aggro before running straight on the can for the loot :/ (I got alot of these, but they were not noob, and were much more safe in there than I was, specialy with me having the aggro.)
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.08.30 19:48:00 - [6] Originally by: HippoKing after this, i felt like a complete bastard, but at the time it seemed the natural thing to do i'm sorry Don't be sorry for this noob but already jerk, you were perfectly right to let him being killed, he was the bastard, not you. Unfortunately i don't think it'll make him learn not to steal people's loot in complexes, but probably only to wait for them to get aggro before running straight on the can for the loot :/ (I got alot of these, but they were not noob, and were much more safe in there than I was, specialy with me having the aggro.) ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Trelennen	Posted - 2005.08.30 20:43:00 - [7] Originally by: xJESTERx Nothing worth 20M+ should be dropped in empire. You can't increase the respawn time or decrease the drop rate. It might weed out a few but the item will just become more valuable. Well, moving them to 0.0 will make them even more valuable too... And are faction ships really worth that much? I mean, are they really that uber they need to be priced that much? I guess it's a question CCP should answer. Anyway, serpentis complexes are farmed at least as much for the gistii items as for the faction ships. Remove the faction ships they'll still be farmed for faction loot. Problem is still there. Well, then you will want to remove any valuable loot from complexes in Empire? They're supposed to be hard, and they are hard for players with not much SP (eg. players for which low difficulty complexes are meant), and when something is hard, you're supposed to have a potential good reward at the end too. And some faction loots you find in there are worth 20M+ too, so you say, "remove BPC cause there should not be items 20M+ worth in empire, but leave the faction loot that are worth the same"? What a weird logic... And if you think it's not normal that players can have some valuable things in empire, then make it impossible to get lots of ISKs mining in empire... Maybe preventing mining barge to mine in 0.5+? That would be silly, don't you think?
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.08.30 20:43:00 - [8] Originally by: xJESTERx Nothing worth 20M+ should be dropped in empire. You can't increase the respawn time or decrease the drop rate. It might weed out a few but the item will just become more valuable. Well, moving them to 0.0 will make them even more valuable too... And are faction ships really worth that much? I mean, are they really that uber they need to be priced that much? I guess it's a question CCP should answer. Anyway, serpentis complexes are farmed at least as much for the gistii items as for the faction ships. Remove the faction ships they'll still be farmed for faction loot. Problem is still there. Well, then you will want to remove any valuable loot from complexes in Empire? They're supposed to be hard, and they are hard for players with not much SP (eg. players for which low difficulty complexes are meant), and when something is hard, you're supposed to have a potential good reward at the end too. And some faction loots you find in there are worth 20M+ too, so you say, "remove BPC cause there should not be items 20M+ worth in empire, but leave the faction loot that are worth the same"? What a weird logic... And if you think it's not normal that players can have some valuable things in empire, then make it impossible to get lots of ISKs mining in empire... Maybe preventing mining barge to mine in 0.5+? That would be silly, don't you think? ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Trelennen	Posted - 2005.09.01 14:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Sarduk Larish I often went into one of these when anything else was too hard, only to find the ship that drops the BPC (which coincedentaly is the one that dropps the key i needed for the next level) destroyed with everything else remaining. I was eventually forced to buy a key just to do the next stage and, suprise suprise, it hadnt been touched (the next stage never dropps a BPC). Yeah, that's the first that should be changed, and been changed quick. Nobody, except people wanting fun, is doing the last stage on these, 'cause if you have a drop, it'll be on the key keeper, not on last stage, which is silly. I wonder if there's not a bug with the commander in 3rd stage, at least for 1/10: when you hit him, the combat log says sansha outpost commander, but when you kill him and go see in your journal tab in the wallet, it says something like centii something, which would explain why it never drops anything. No good loot should drop on the key keeper, or if it drops, with a chance near to null. You often find complexes with everything up except the key keeper, because for somebody in an AS, there's no risk to go straight on the key keeper, kill him and loot him, while having all the other pirates shooting at him, and that's plain wrong. If having an AS make the complex too easy, they shouldn't be allowed to go in. I know there are still frigates, and that's the class of the ship which is used to allow or not entrance, but tech level should be considered too imho. In addition, it seems that there is an unbalanced between types of complexes (eg. sansha, serpentis, guristas, etc.): for a given level, some will drop much more than others, which is again plain wrong. As for sansha, there is not a single 2/10 sansha complex, wtf? Only drones 2/10, and drones complexes are much less fun than pirates (I hate drones personaly), and are always less rewarding, 'cause with the minerals you get in there you make less than just with the bountys in pirates plex. I would see something like that: - equal repartition of complexes (eg. as many sansha 1/10 than serpentis 1/10, same for 2/10 or so) - same loot chances between these types. - no faction loot/BPCs on key keeper (or with a really low chance) - chances of loot depending of complexe quality. Currently in 1/10 and 3/10 you can get frig BPC (in 2/10 too, and 4/10 also I think). I take random figures for the show, would need some work around of course: like 1/20 chance to drop a faction BPC OR a faction loot on 1/10 commander and maybe 1/500 on the key keeper, and in 3/10 plexes it would be like 1/10 chance of a faction BPC OR a faction loot. (And maybe add in there for 4/10 a slight chance when you got faction bpc to have a faction cruiser, like 1/1000, as 5/10+ are mainly meant for BS - they can't enter lower ones - and it would make sense to be able to get a faction cruiser in a cruiser imho). Of course the more difficult and rewardy the complex is, the more it's moved to a lower sec zone. This would leave some nice complexes for low SP characters in high sec, with still a small to chance to have a worthy loot (should not be everytime you run it of course, far from here). And as easier plex would have much less chance to drop worthy loot, they won't be farmed as much, and lots of SP players will prefer to go for higher difficulty plexes in low sec 'cause they will give them more loot, instead of ruining others experience in low difficulty plexes.
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.09.01 14:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Sarduk Larish I often went into one of these when anything else was too hard, only to find the ship that drops the BPC (which coincedentaly is the one that dropps the key i needed for the next level) destroyed with everything else remaining. I was eventually forced to buy a key just to do the next stage and, suprise suprise, it hadnt been touched (the next stage never dropps a BPC). Yeah, that's the first that should be changed, and been changed quick. Nobody, except people wanting fun, is doing the last stage on these, 'cause if you have a drop, it'll be on the key keeper, not on last stage, which is silly. I wonder if there's not a bug with the commander in 3rd stage, at least for 1/10: when you hit him, the combat log says sansha outpost commander, but when you kill him and go see in your journal tab in the wallet, it says something like centii something, which would explain why it never drops anything. No good loot should drop on the key keeper, or if it drops, with a chance near to null. You often find complexes with everything up except the key keeper, because for somebody in an AS, there's no risk to go straight on the key keeper, kill him and loot him, while having all the other pirates shooting at him, and that's plain wrong. If having an AS make the complex too easy, they shouldn't be allowed to go in. I know there are still frigates, and that's the class of the ship which is used to allow or not entrance, but tech level should be considered too imho. In addition, it seems that there is an unbalanced between types of complexes (eg. sansha, serpentis, guristas, etc.): for a given level, some will drop much more than others, which is again plain wrong. As for sansha, there is not a single 2/10 sansha complex, wtf? Only drones 2/10, and drones complexes are much less fun than pirates (I hate drones personaly), and are always less rewarding, 'cause with the minerals you get in there you make less than just with the bountys in pirates plex. I would see something like that: - equal repartition of complexes (eg. as many sansha 1/10 than serpentis 1/10, same for 2/10 or so) - same loot chances between these types. - no faction loot/BPCs on key keeper (or with a really low chance) - chances of loot depending of complexe quality. Currently in 1/10 and 3/10 you can get frig BPC (in 2/10 too, and 4/10 also I think). I take random figures for the show, would need some work around of course: like 1/20 chance to drop a faction BPC OR a faction loot on 1/10 commander and maybe 1/500 on the key keeper, and in 3/10 plexes it would be like 1/10 chance of a faction BPC OR a faction loot. (And maybe add in there for 4/10 a slight chance when you got faction bpc to have a faction cruiser, like 1/1000, as 5/10+ are mainly meant for BS - they can't enter lower ones - and it would make sense to be able to get a faction cruiser in a cruiser imho). Of course the more difficult and rewardy the complex is, the more it's moved to a lower sec zone. This would leave some nice complexes for low SP characters in high sec, with still a small to chance to have a worthy loot (should not be everytime you run it of course, far from here). And as easier plex would have much less chance to drop worthy loot, they won't be farmed as much, and lots of SP players will prefer to go for higher difficulty plexes in low sec 'cause they will give them more loot, instead of ruining others experience in low difficulty plexes. ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.09.01 14:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Sarduk Larish I often went into one of these when anything else was too hard, only to find the ship that drops the BPC (which coincedentaly is the one that dropps the key i needed for the next level) destroyed with everything else remaining. I was eventually forced to buy a key just to do the next stage and, suprise suprise, it hadnt been touched (the next stage never dropps a BPC). Yeah, that's the first that should be changed, and been changed quick. Nobody, except people wanting fun, is doing the last stage on these, 'cause if you have a drop, it'll be on the key keeper, not on last stage, which is silly. I wonder if there's not a bug with the commander in 3rd stage, at least for 1/10: when you hit him, the combat log says sansha outpost commander, but when you kill him and go see in your journal tab in the wallet, it says something like centii something, which would explain why it never drops anything. No good loot should drop on the key keeper, or if it drops, with a chance near to null. You often find complexes with everything up except the key keeper, because for somebody in an AS, there's no risk to go straight on the key keeper, kill him and loot him, while having all the other pirates shooting at him, and that's plain wrong. If having an AS make the complex too easy, they shouldn't be allowed to go in. I know there are still frigates, and that's the class of the ship which is used to allow or not entrance, but tech level should be considered too imho. In addition, it seems that there is an unbalanced between types of complexes (eg. sansha, serpentis, guristas, etc.): for a given level, some will drop much more than others, which is again plain wrong. As for sansha, there is not a single 2/10 sansha complex, wtf? Only drones 2/10, and drones complexes are much less fun than pirates (I hate drones personaly), and are always less rewarding, 'cause with the minerals you get in there you make less than just with the bountys in pirates plex. I would see something like that: - equal repartition of complexes (eg. as many sansha 1/10 than serpentis 1/10, same for 2/10 or so) - same loot chances between these types. - no faction loot/BPCs on key keeper (or with a really low chance) - chances of loot depending of complexe quality. Currently in 1/10 and 3/10 you can get frig BPC (in 2/10 too, and 4/10 also I think). I take random figures for the show, would need some work around of course: like 1/20 chance to drop a faction BPC OR a faction loot on 1/10 commander and maybe 1/500 on the key keeper, and in 3/10 plexes it would be like 1/10 chance of a faction BPC OR a faction loot. (And maybe add in there for 4/10 a slight chance when you got faction bpc to have a faction cruiser, like 1/1000, as 5/10+ are mainly meant for BS - they can't enter lower ones - and it would make sense to be able to get a faction cruiser in a cruiser imho). Of course the more difficult and rewardy the complex is, the more it's moved to a lower sec zone. This would leave some nice complexes for low SP characters in high sec, with still a small to chance to have a worthy loot (should not be everytime you run it of course, far from here). And as easier plex would have much less chance to drop worthy loot, they won't be farmed as much, and lots of SP players will prefer to go for higher difficulty plexes in low sec 'cause they will give them more loot, instead of ruining others experience in low difficulty plexes. ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!

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