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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.07.19 19:33:00 -
[1]
Anyone with some first person experience?
Using for example Mega beam lasers (with the crystal of your choice), at what range do you usually hit? How fast can the target move at that range?
The tracking speeds of the large turrets seems to be so worthless, that you can't even kill a cruiser at 25km's. Therefore I'd like some real information here.
Also, can someone who actually use a battleship post their configuration?
I know there's a lot of threads asking about configs, but generally only about cruisers. |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.19 22:40:00 -
[2]
Battleships can't hit a cruiser at 25km?
Since when?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.07.19 22:44:00 -
[3]
"seems to be"
That's why I want facts. I have no idea to be honest, I just "heard it", and therefore I'd like to hear more. Hence this thread. |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.07.19 22:50:00 -
[4]
I believe most bs to date still use medium weapons...... large weapons have some serious issue after the tracking patch.
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.07.19 23:15:00 -
[5]
Jarjar and I have already talked about this in another forum...
But I couldn't anser too much. So more answers would be great.
1. Trackingspeed works as rad/seconds. This means, that if an enemy is moving transversaly, your trackingspeed will have be more than (target speed)/(range).
Which means, with a trackingspeed of 0.01 and a range of 10km, it's hard to hit enemies with a speed of more than 0.01*10000= 100 m/s.
Conclusion: trackingspeed is VERY important.
2. We've tested large lasers on my cruisers. Our tests with Tachyon beams was more deep than our tests with Mega beams. I can only verify that Tachyon Beams are soooooooooo much better than Mega Beams.
However, we anticipated that... But what I didn't expect(and that scared me...): even at 7km range, 1 of 3 shots made "normal hits". I was then using a Moa(with one alpha overdrive and lvl 4 navigation), so I made about 200 m/s.
Conclusion: Maybe trackingspeed isn't THAT MUCH important after all...
The battleship with the weapons didn't mount any tracking-enhacers. However, he had lots of extruded heat sinks (=best ones), so a normal hit caused about 250 damage without my shield hardeners on. However, I can only say that with that type of damage my cruiser is down in seconds(despite EM-hardener, thermal-hardener and medium clarity ward). And yes, I have: energy man 4, energy ops 5, shield man 4, shield ops 4. + 2 power diag 1.
However, if he can't warp-jam me with a strength of more than 1, then I would definetely survive long enough for my ship to make a 180 U-turn and warp back to a safe place without my ship blown up.
*edit* Important note. This was without any chrystal at all. The person who fired at me has several multi L at his disposal... With the huge optimal AND falloff with Tachyon beams, it's very possible too hit targets far away even when using multi-f-L
*edit one more time*
Since I'm Caldari, I would appreciate if someone can share experience from the 425mm Railguns. And of course the projectiles too. From what I can tell, Tachyon beams seems to be the best large turret... However, they use lots of cap, and considering what other ships can use that cap for, I guess it's fair.
Edited by: dalman on 19/07/2003 23:24:54
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Arathmon
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Posted - 2003.07.20 00:03:00 -
[6]
On my armageddon using mega beams I can hit an orbiting cruiser at a minimum of around 7km, using 1 'Orion' Tracking Computer and two Beta-Nought Tracking Enhancers. My optimal range using Gamma L's is around 25km.
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I used to be in the FA. I like cookies. Eve Radio is teh pwn. |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.07.20 00:13:00 -
[7]
Don't sound too shabby after all... But if dalman is correct about the calculations, that'd be impossible.
I believe it would give a tracking rate of 0.005575 rad/sec, which would mean a max. enemy speed of 140m/s at 25km, if you're not moving at all. Just don't trust my maths, but to me it seems to be correct.
Then again, my current cruiser gun should score about 40-45 dmg/hit according to maths, which isn't true at all. :) |
Arathmon
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Posted - 2003.07.20 00:23:00 -
[8]
Factoring in lvl 3 motion prediction and my above setup, my mega beam lasers get a tracking speed of 0.003816957... So it's really not unbearable, especially if you web stasis the orbiting ship ;)
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I used to be in the FA. I like cookies. Eve Radio is teh pwn. |
dalman
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Posted - 2003.07.20 03:08:00 -
[9]
Well... I guess it's pretty random.
But if your trackingspeed is good enough according to the math, you'll probably hit with every shot within optimal range.
However, the fact that even when your guns can't target the enemy exactly, you'll still score some hits.
Trackingspeed on Tachyon is 0.006 I think. With lvl 4 in m.p. it's 0.0072. That means, at 7km range, the turret can only track the enemy with a speed of 50.4 m/s... However, as I stated above, he did hit me(and hit me good) about 1 of 3 shots when I was doing 200 m/s, not 50...
So if you go in close on a BS(with a non-BS-ship), expect it to miss you alot, but don't think you'll take it out alone, no matter how close you get...
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Arathmon
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Posted - 2003.07.20 18:22:00 -
[10]
Tracking on a tachyon is .0085, which is ridiculously since it's tied as the fastest tracking Large laser turret.
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I used to be in the FA. I like cookies. Eve Radio is teh pwn. |
Fritz Ionar
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Posted - 2003.07.20 21:59:00 -
[11]
In a real fight your ship is moving to so the tracking speed of the turret is just part of the ecvation. If your ship is moving in such a way that teh same side is facing your aponent most of the time the turet doesn't need to track very fast. Atleast in theory, but who knows how it is inplemented. Mabye the turret acts as if the ship never shanged atitud...
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The services YOU need, WE provide! |
Fallen Angel
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Posted - 2003.07.21 01:16:00 -
[12]
actually that velocity calculation ONLY works when the target has a perfect orbit staying the same distance the whole time
if it is going on a slight bit off that... its velocity doesn't count as much
Remember, targets aren't always flying right at you, or in PERFECT circles around you or anything like that... if you don't understand, watch your guns movement
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Calisarius
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Posted - 2003.07.22 18:03:00 -
[13]
Shouldnt tracking only really be an issue if the target is either orbiting you (your in trouble here) or cutting in at an angle to your ship ?
If its heading straight towards you (if you can mangae to maintain distance this makes this more obvious) turrets dont need to change alignment.. since the angle (and distance if you can) remain constant.
Tracking speed should only come into play if the turrets actually need to move.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.07.22 19:35:00 -
[14]
Which is indeed how it works. You can't tell your enemy to simply fly straight at you though. 
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The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.07.23 05:33:00 -
[15]
Get on the ol'test server and see how much they suck on a moving target.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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Askari
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Posted - 2003.07.23 08:32:00 -
[16]
I think you should also consider that you are all thinking this problem through from a single fighters perspective.
Battleships are supposed to be part of a group, with a few cruisers and a few frigates as support to harass and lock down the target while the BS pummels it from range.
Tracking speed is a moot point then.
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~= Askari =~
Urza's Factory
http://www.mikeward.uk.com/urzas
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.07.23 14:29:00 -
[17]
AFAIK, tracking speed is rad/millisecond, which would explain why you guys are throwing speeds that are one thousandth less than they should be.
I believe this was confirmed by CCP, who calculate most things in msecs.
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"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.07.23 14:44:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Jarjar on 23/07/2003 14:44:47
That simply can't be right. So I can track a vessel moving at 800km/sec 27km from me?   |
Jack Brennan
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Posted - 2003.07.23 16:15:00 -
[19]
Using Mega Beams and L Microwave crystals I can normally hit for 60 - 100 damage at 55 - 50 km.
Gamma cystals can dish out 100 - 150 damage at 40 - 35km.
The King of the Hill in my experience though are Neutron Blasters which I can normally hit target at 5 - 20km with an average of 200 Damage per shot. My best was 7km using antimatter for 392 damage wrecking shot.
Beware these things are lethal!
Jack
Jack Brennan |
Arathmon
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Posted - 2003.07.23 19:53:00 -
[20]
My Ion Blaster Cannons have hit for 499.9 wrecking. Beat that 
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I used to be in the FA. I like cookies. Eve Radio is teh pwn. |
dalman
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Posted - 2003.07.23 20:11:00 -
[21]
"Beware these things are lethal!"
Sorry to ruin it for ya... But Mega Beams sucks. They are indeed only for persons without enough money/contacts to get Tachyons.
I suppose you're in an Amarr battleship. Those surve only one purpose, to deal out max damage in minimum time... If you don't have acess to Tachyon Beams and several Extruded Heatsinks(or at least "skadi" or C4S), a battleship of another race would probably suit you better.
An avarege hit from an Apocalypse should be at least 250 damage. Even higher with an armageddon. But an armageddon can fit one beam less.
And you'd do this kind of damage in the range from 10-60km.
Sorry, don't take it personal, I'm not even in a battleship yet. Just information and advice
More on topic, of course, to get into close range a frigate can't travel transversaly. So a frigate should be dead well before he is "too cloase". And given that an Apocalypse should usually fit 5 guns, doing 250 damage each, every 3 seconds... so should also a group of frigates!
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Vilar Solamnus
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Posted - 2003.07.30 15:09:00 -
[22]
the other guy was talking about Neutron Blaster Cannons, not lasers when he was talking about those things being lethal...which I would have to agree. I currently run 6 neutron blaster cannons and one modal neutron particle accelerator on my Megathron. My normal setup includes one Vortex II and one Orion tracking computer. With only those 2 items I have achieved perfect shots well over 500 damage, the best being 577.4. Oddly enough, that shot occurred at 23 km, which with the AM ammo I was using was my apparent max range, being my optimal of just over 2k added to my falloff of 21k. Additionally, I generally hunt a spot that spawns 5 50k pirates at once, and since my optimal is 2k I try to close on them as quickly as possible...all 5 are usually dead before they get to 2km of me, starting at 23 km. If you're looking for long range, grab a tachyon. You want sheer firepower up close, get some Neutron Blaster Cannons.
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Synapse Archae
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Posted - 2003.07.30 22:20:00 -
[23]
Note that that speed you come up with in your calculations is not the speed of the target you are firing at but the DIFFERENCE in the speed of your two ships relative to each other. So if your turrets can track at that speed than even if you are moving at 1300m/s and they parrallel you at 1350m/s, you will hit them just fine. On the other hand if they reverse direction, it would be a good idea, tactically, to slow down.
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Everyone deserves a chance to live.
My job is to make sure they get it. |
Stryker
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Posted - 2003.07.30 23:15:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Stryker on 30/07/2003 23:48:39
Not such a good tactical decision for the guy being shot at...
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