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Zandramus
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Posted - 2005.08.02 12:44:00 -
[1]
IMO these 2 things need done before there will be any serious population of 0.0.
Remove ships in space from the map, and remove pilots in local unless they are within scanner range.
Looking at the map and seeing a blob of pilots in what you know is a rare ore system is a sure fire way to attract someone looking to gank miners.
Realistically how are you able to see pilots in space light years away from your current location? do these pilots ships have some sort of transmitter that says hey look at me im here? because i know if I bought a ship that would be the first damn thing that I disconnected so that I could move around un-noticed.
Secondly, if Im sitting more than 15 au from a stargate, how is it I know that someone just came through it this instant when it would take in the order of 15 * 8min for any transmission from that gate to reach me at the speed of light?
Lets make the finding of people in space a job for a cov ops pilot, oh and cov ops should never show in local.
just a thought, I feel that these 2 fundamental changes are what is needed to finally open up 0.0
Zandramus
S.A.S
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.02 12:51:00 -
[2]
Fog of war to the rescue. I've pitched this several times, might as well bring it up again.
Basically, change the map to only display blobs you, your corporation members, and your alliance members encounter. The blobs show up on the map and "degrade" over time, and hovering your mouse over a blob shows you how current the data is.
The idea is you could actually have roving patrols and covert ops people stationed in areas you want to cover to spot anyone moving through an area. This also means everyone can see what's going on using the map, which might cut down on a lot of the alliance/ts chatter with everyone trying to find out what's going on.
Just a thought. :)
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Andrue
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Posted - 2005.08.02 12:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Andrue on 02/08/2005 12:52:55
 Originally by: Zandramus
Realistically how are you able to see pilots in space light years away from your current location?
Oh that's easily explained by FTL communication. When you activate a gate or undock it records your ship ID. That information is then propogated throughout the galaxy. Your ship's navigation computer then combines that information to display ship location on the map.
But I disagree with your suggestion. The current averaged display is plenty good enough. It gives you some idea of how busy an area is without actually giving you precise information.
As for local:I would put a timer on it. You don't appear until you speak and after x minutes of silence your presence is forgotten.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.08.02 12:53:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 02/08/2005 12:54:41
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 02/08/2005 12:53:48
Fix Eve, get rid of Zandramus.
0.0 combat has has STILL not recovere, on average, to pre-NWO levels and you want MORE nerfs? The current map is SO broken that you can move BS fleets with no blob on the map, and it often gives downright MISLEADING information.
It's notgood enough that it's not very useful, it LIES.
Fix. The. Map.
And by "open", you mean "have it all to myself because most people will leave it"
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Summersnow
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Posted - 2005.08.02 13:05:00 -
[5]
The map info allows people to see ahead and judge weather there are gate griefers lieing in wait.
You want to take that away.
You ride the shortbus to school yes?
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Darken Two
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Posted - 2005.08.02 13:08:00 -
[6]
Bad idea, basically cos it makes the game too much hard work and promotes more blobbing.
Originally by: Blind Fear
Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.08.02 13:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Andrue
But I disagree with your suggestion. The current averaged display is plenty good enough. It gives you some idea of how busy an area is without actually giving you precise information.
The problem with the current averaged map is that it encourages roaming gankers and discourages any actual settlement and long-term use of space. If they're moving at a decent pace (instas ftw), very large groups can be hidden from the map completely. This is great for the roaming gankers as no-one will see them coming. But as soon as you settle down to actually make use of the space, you get a big neon "shoot me" sign light up across the galaxy.
It's things like this that lead a lot of people to treat 0.0 as an excursionary or nomadic excersise, rather than a long-term career option or a place to live.
Beware those beyond here, for they cannot see evil. |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.08.02 13:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Darken Two
Bad idea, basically cos it makes the game too much hard work and promotes more blobbing.
signed
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Rafein
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Posted - 2005.08.02 13:15:00 -
[9]
well, if they kept people's faces outta Local that did not chat, there would be a lot more, um, "bravery" when entering lower sec space.
As it is not, it's lame for for the carebear can see a Pirate enter a system, and hit a station/safespot. Or a Pirate can just ener a system, and see if there was anyone to kill, no probes needed.
The map thing, I don;t relaly care about, but the local chat should be fixed
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.08.02 13:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Matthew
The problem with the current averaged map is that it encourages roaming gankers and discourages any actual settlement and long-term use of space. If they're moving at a decent pace (instas ftw), very large groups can be hidden from the map completely. This is great for the roaming gankers as no-one will see them coming. But as soon as you settle down to actually make use of the space, you get a big neon "shoot me" sign light up across the galaxy.
It's things like this that lead a lot of people to treat 0.0 as an excursionary or nomadic excersise, rather than a long-term career option or a place to live.
Fully agree on that one, and I also think removing local does nothing except help the roaming gankers. Neither of these ideas in any way benefits long term settlement.
If there are any changes to the map, I'd rather have it swing the other way, where rapidly moving ships/forces show up more easily than stationary settlements. Something like "Population Changes" or something, so that a system that has a large influx of ships, and a rapid outflow of them within a certain timeframe becomes more highlighted. This means that roaming gankers are slightly easier to spot, but it also means large mining ops with 1 or more jumps are also visible.
As for local, the only change I'd make, in conjuction with my idea of map changes is that Covert Ops ships don't appear in local. Everyone else does. Extend it a bit and say that Covert Ops ships don't affect the map (i.e. never show up), and you'be got a real excuse to use them for scouting.
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Zandramus
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Posted - 2005.08.02 13:41:00 -
[11]
Jumps in the last hour pretty much will spot those roving gankers.. only problem is that your client caches this information for like 15 min so you only get a update every 15 min or so.
But you can definitly see where a large band of travelers are heading by watching jumps in the last hour.
Zandramus
S.A.S
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.02 13:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Winterblink
Fog of war to the rescue. I've pitched this several times, might as well bring it up again.
Basically, change the map to only display blobs you, your corporation members, and your alliance members encounter. The blobs show up on the map and "degrade" over time, and hovering your mouse over a blob shows you how current the data is.
The idea is you could actually have roving patrols and covert ops people stationed in areas you want to cover to spot anyone moving through an area. This also means everyone can see what's going on using the map, which might cut down on a lot of the alliance/ts chatter with everyone trying to find out what's going on.
Just a thought. :)
Devs tried it. It killed the server. Removing local would just lead to more ganking and use of alts. Those who are saying it would help miners or NPCers are stupid, it takes less then a minute to scan the belts in most systems. I would like to see someone trying to scan gates while NPCing.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.02 13:51:00 -
[13]
True but first you have to find said miner/npcer in all those systems in the first place.
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Adiion Agnod
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Posted - 2005.08.02 14:08:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Adiion Agnod on 02/08/2005 14:09:31
The biggest problem is that at the end of the day, EvE is still a game.
1> No one wants to sit at gate for hours on end ID'ing the odd person coming through.
2> Common practise is for intruders to SafeSpot and if they are still being hunted they log. which leads to
3> Without local, hunting partys will not be able to see if a player has logged.
I'd say yes to removing people from local and map if they...
A> Created a scanning platform that people can set up. Maybe as an outpost or outpost feature or maybe like those deployable warp scramblers.
B> Remove safespots bookmarks's from the game altogether by tieing bookmarks to objects, or even better by creating "nav bouys" which would allow for insta's, yet still allow Empires reasonable control of thier space.
C> Make scan probes cheaper :P, its costing me a fortune in probes and I dont have the time/gear to do conventional ISK making :P.
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John Blackthorn
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Posted - 2005.08.02 14:32:00 -
[15]
hahah yea RIGHt. make it easier for pirates to camp systems and blow everyone to heck...
Make 0.0 a fog? you will see no one there. And not because no one can see who's in 0.0 but because no one will go there.
-BT
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2005.08.02 14:37:00 -
[16]
There does need to be some "fog of war" such as removing the number of ships in space from the map for any system that does not have infrastructure. Also, faction standings should count, so if a player does not have good standing with the faction owning the infrasturcture... then you dont get the info from them either.
I agree, people should not show in local if they dont talk.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Bajorne
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Posted - 2005.08.02 16:03:00 -
[17]
Get rid of the friends list showing who is online aswell please, or even better, have it so it only works if both parties have each other added to the friends list, using it as a way of seeing when your enemy is online is the biggest BS ever.
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0Virtu0
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Posted - 2005.08.02 16:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Bajorne
Get rid of the friends list showing who is online aswell please, or even better, have it so it only works if both parties have each other added to the friends list, using it as a way of seeing when your enemy is online is the biggest BS ever.
Um oh noes...prevent people from predicting log-in traps!
Do not nerf local and map, it's hard enough to find people to kill as it is. 
----------------------------------
I play EvE and I don't even get a stupid signature. |
Petite Pierre
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Posted - 2005.08.02 16:41:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Petite Pierre on 02/08/2005 16:41:37
Originally by: Winterblink
Fog of war to the rescue. I've pitched this several times, might as well bring it up again.
Basically, change the map to only display blobs you, your corporation members, and your alliance members encounter. The blobs show up on the map and "degrade" over time, and hovering your mouse over a blob shows you how current the data is.
The idea is you could actually have roving patrols and covert ops people stationed in areas you want to cover to spot anyone moving through an area. This also means everyone can see what's going on using the map, which might cut down on a lot of the alliance/ts chatter with everyone trying to find out what's going on.
Just a thought. :)
Easily exploitable. What stops me from having each alliance member dropping a alt in every system of interest ?
--------------------
"With Bart, we laugh to keep the bile down. With Bugs, we just laughed." |
Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.08.02 17:00:00 -
[20]
CCP would NEVER remove local players...and why??? It would be a slaughter in 0.0. If they remove it, aggressors chances to sneak approach a target would increase much! CCP wonŠt do this, donŠt even dream of it. CCP is a company that focusses on making real $$$. Why should they allow aggressive players to score?
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Alosar
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Posted - 2005.08.02 17:36:00 -
[21]
personally i dont leave empire at all after patch (pre patch i was based in a 0.1 system) imo after patch travel is way more dangerous and way to long so ive decided to stick in empire space and will be for a very long time.
removing local would make 0.0 space even more unatractive,
if i saw a player that had -0.1 standing :P enter local id run for station seeing as im not a pvpr.
obviously this sugjestion is made by someone thats into pvp/pirating
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Xthril Ranger
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Posted - 2005.08.02 18:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Zandramus
Looking at the map and seeing a blob of pilots in what you know is a rare ore system is a sure fire way to attract someone looking to gank miners.
Try grabbing some PvP gear , 2 medium warp disruptors and sit down and wait for people to come looking for easy prey. :-D
btw , local chat is good. Go play WoW if you don't want to talk to hostiles 
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Samson
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Posted - 2005.08.02 21:19:00 -
[23]
I think this would be a double edged sword, but I like it. It would be more realistic and immersive. Sure you can setup a mining op in 0.0 without being seen, but you'd need to setup sentries to watch the gates, since local wouldn't show intruders, and if the wrong people got wind of your op you could get wiped out, before you had time to react. Pirates would be able to sneak up on their prey better in some situations, but it would be a lot harder to find said prey. Accurate up to the minute intel would become a more valuable commodity than it is currently. Becoming an explorer in a covert ops frigate might even be a real isk making endeavor, as the intel on a corps secret pos might be worth quite a bit to the right people.
Established gate camps would still be easy to spot by using ships destroyed in the last hour on the map. However traveling would still be more dangerous. Getting your ore back to empire would require a scout, period, as gate camping would be even more prevalent than it is now, if that's possible... because, finding random targets by roaming would be very time consuming. You would have to scan every system you entered having no idea in which direction to head without any intel on the location of your prey. Although I think most people have some idea where their enemies hang out, so this really only hides the little people, and that might be a good thing.
At first glance it would appear to make 0.0 a scary place, as someone could warp in on you without you ever knowing he was there, but you have to realize that he won't know you're there either, so the chances encountering someone out to kill you would actually be less than they are now.
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Larno
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Posted - 2005.08.02 21:24:00 -
[24]
How about if you have a POS in a system, then players from that corp dont show up on pilots in space? That would help smaller corps in 0.0
----------
"Whining gets you stuff, that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed." |
Bobby Wilson
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Posted - 2005.08.02 21:32:00 -
[25]
I dunno, local being gone wouldn't be all bad. If gankers can't see you in local, are they going to scout every belt in a solar system to see if there is an NPCer or miner in that solar system?
Even scanning from every planet to see if there is a target in-system would eat a lot of their time, thus nerfing their run-about play.
We all depend on local (at least those of us who function in low/0 sec) but it would be a more interesting game without it.
As for the map issue, I agree with others that it is well and heavy nerfed now, and doesn't need to be more nerfage.
BW
Originally by: Nervar
We allready play EvE wich by definition allready makes us the most patient people on the planet.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.02 21:40:00 -
[26]
Ironically the map is what SAS used to find us last time around but yes, nerf it to hell and bury it there.
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Scarcus
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Posted - 2005.08.02 22:38:00 -
[27]
The reason we all have a local listing of pilots in a system is due to the use of jumpgates, bubba. This will never change and good thing too. As for the map? Same deal. Live with it.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.03 01:29:00 -
[28]
Originally by: mahhy
Covert Ops ships don't appear in local.
Very, very, very good idea, I second that wholeheartedly.
About the map, Empire should display everything in real time (like before), and 0.0 not display a thing, no map nor local.
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Aitrus
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Posted - 2005.08.03 01:35:00 -
[29]
How about this, you only see pilots in space if your corp/alliance claims sovereignity over the system. Only show people in local if they talk. (all this in 0.0 only)
Home field advantage.
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bundy bear
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Posted - 2005.08.03 03:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zandramus
IMO these 2 things need done before there will be any serious population of 0.0.
Remove ships in space from the map, and remove pilots in local unless they are within scanner range.
Looking at the map and seeing a blob of pilots in what you know is a rare ore system is a sure fire way to attract someone looking to gank miners.
Realistically how are you able to see pilots in space light years away from your current location? do these pilots ships have some sort of transmitter that says hey look at me im here? because i know if I bought a ship that would be the first damn thing that I disconnected so that I could move around un-noticed.
Secondly, if Im sitting more than 15 au from a stargate, how is it I know that someone just came through it this instant when it would take in the order of 15 * 8min for any transmission from that gate to reach me at the speed of light?
Lets make the finding of people in space a job for a cov ops pilot, oh and cov ops should never show in local.
just a thought, I feel that these 2 fundamental changes are what is needed to finally open up 0.0
Ok i have heard these suggestions many times and every time i think that the poster realy has not thought this through. Mostly these posts are by pirates and small gangs that run through 0.0 space trying to get easy ganks and whine when anyone docks/logs.
Sure 0.0 will be much more open but will it be more populated? Will it be a good place to be?. These changes will essentially destroy alliances completely. Small gank squads will easily be able to go to 0.0 systems and gank whatever they want when they want. Alliance will not have enough time to gather any defence and by the time they do the attacking force can be anywhere. There is no way at all an alliance can defend against a gank squad unless they have a bigger force present in every system they have pilots in. U would not be able to do anything by yourself in a system because for all u know there could be a hostile fleet of 50 ships in a system. Sure it would be esy to get into a 0.0 system. But who would want to live in one if u could get ganked at any second. 0.0 would suck and no one would use it instead everyon would be in empire doing agent missions.
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