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Space Debris
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:27:00 -
[1]
Two things really which I think are very much wrong with Agent running at the moment.
Firstly is the fact that I have amassed over 500,000 LP with an Angel Cartel lvl 4 agent in the hope of receiving the Machariel offer. Now Im prepared to be patient etc but I have recently been informed that if you stop doing missions you will stop receiving offers.
This is insane. This is me saving up a Million pounds in my Bank but then the Bank Manager turning round and saying , no you cant have your Million pounds because I see you have stopped adding to your savings. Until you put some more into your bank we are going to keep your Million pounds.
Its utterly illogical for agents to work that way I hope you can see.
I cannot play as much as I used to but should not be put into some limbo and offered nothing for my hard work.
My 2nd point is more a personal problem/whine than the general one above. I have performed countless Agent missions with the sole desire to get my hands on a Machariel Battleship. 500k used to be the target figure. Patch came along and changed everthing. Now someone who has never run a mission in their life can apparently get them from complexes whereas someone who has spent months building up from lvl 1 agents is insulted with offers like this :
Offered Item:
This item is being offered to you by your agent:
8 run Cynabel Cruiser BPC
Cost:
The agent is requesting the following as payment for the item:
400,000 LP
4 Billion isk
WTF kind of joke offer is that ?? 8 Cruisers (still need to supply mins etc) for FOUR BILLION ISK. Ive never even nearly had a Billion isk in my entire EVE career and somehow my agent expects me to pay 500 million isk per Cruiser.
CCP wtf is going on here ?? Something is MAJORLY wrong if someone can go into a Complex and spend an hour or two killing npcs and get a Machariel one run bpc, but someone who has spent Months building up from a lvl 1 agent to amass 500k LP is openly mocked like this. Seriously, 4 bil for 8 cruisers, gimme a break
Is it just me who thinks someone dropped the ball here ?
The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face
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capt
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:44:00 -
[2]
FYI, I last saw a cynnabal on escrow round 150-250mill.
/emote loves rubbin the salt in the wound 
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:45:00 -
[3]
The idea is to give people a cash-in LP offer, so they don't need to grind so much.
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Wulfgard
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:48:00 -
[4]
Yeah, I wonder how it escaped CCP attention, getting a faction BPC from a complex is the way to go now... |
Tai'Kimoto
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:49:00 -
[5]
Thats why they call it an offer, you dont have to take it if it doesnt seem good to you. Not ever offer in life will lead to you become ultra rich, so why should it be the same here? Just decline it and move on, do another mission, and wait for another offer. AFAIK you need to do one more mission each time you get an offer you decline to recieve another offer, sucks I know especially for a lvl 4 agent but thats the way it is.
Oh, and I think the faction BS bpcs only drop from high complexes, 10/10 maybe 8/9 /10. It requires leadership 5 to enter and you need a fleet with you afaik to get past the first stages.
Dont really know about the high end complexes, we have a few in catch, a 6/10 and 10/10 a few jumps from FAT but for some reason we havent run either in a while.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.03 15:56:00 -
[6]
Don't ya just love how CCP rewards the efforts of monthes worth of subscription payments, personal time and effort.
they make them available from complexes on a whim and add some completely ludacris set of offers that rob you of LP and ISK.
you can buy that ship for 150 to 200 mill regularly.
times 8 =
1.6 bill.
but yet the offer for monthes worth of your time effort and real life money is for 2.25 times the ISK.
basically they ruined any reasoning for doing missions for LP rewards for anything but implants.
pretty sad really, finding it harder and harder to do anything in Eve worth my time. For me it was missions and simply aint worth it grouped and boring as crap solo.
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mrg29
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Posted - 2005.08.03 16:04:00 -
[7]
agree 100%
ccp attempted to align agent offers for faction ships at patch with market values has gone badly wrong and screwed over mission runners for 2 reasons;
1 - the frequency of bpc drops from complexes has seriously affected the market for faction ships and has seen the value of pirate BS slashed from 4-5bill per ship to 1-1.5bill. with corresponding reductions for for cruisers and frigs. this has had a knock-on effect to other faction BS as people wont now pay as much for a fleet tempest if they can get a machariel for 1 bill. If agent offers are gonna be aligned with market values for items there has to be some way to make the offers more dynamic and adjust to changing market values than by waiting months til the next patch.
2 - whoever set the isk values for these type of offers must have been believing all the garbage being spouted by the "lvl4 missions are the end of the world" crowd and assumed that all mission runners have billions of isk in their wallets and can afford to pre-pay 4 bil isk for 8 cruisers in the hope of recouping their money from a market which oh by the way has now collapsed.
this is a great example of something which looked to make sense in isolation being ridiculous in reality and shows that when multiple changes are made in one big patch like this that the impact of one change on another stream of gameplay has just not been thought through. now alot of mission runners have seen the "assumed" value of building up a huge number of lps built up over a number of months slashed or made unusable. not that alot of the professional forum dwellers will have alot of sympathy for our plight.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.03 16:24:00 -
[8]
Seen it coming a mile away and said so about it pre patch but all fell on deaf ears.
Seems they think even people running lvl 1, 2, 3 missions are billionares.
Lets see, navy raven or run a guarista complex for a rattlesnake.
not really a tough choice there. 3 or 4 monthes of hardcore missions, or a one night group affair in a complex. And the rattlesnake is better anyways.
Seems they have adopted a new approach to exodus. instead of boosting 00 to make the rewards so worth it to encourage us to go there. they'd rather make empire so worthless to do anything but safespace veldspar strip mine despite risks to ship losses in missions of harder difficulty and less pay.
Great way to reward an empire law abiding citizen.
And throw in the stupid new offers to boot.
priceless.
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Jet Collins
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Posted - 2005.08.03 16:50:00 -
[9]
Just a note as to why we get offers when we do. I belive when The LP's and offers first came into play people where getting "too many" E-mails with offers and complained that they where getting spamed with E-mails to now we have the system we have.
Maybe if people didn't complain so much the game wouldn't be nerfed so bad.
/me starts to see a patern with compaining and "nerfing"
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Zakon
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Posted - 2005.08.03 17:55:00 -
[10]
Offers are unbalansed big time!! Its terrible, in many ways.
first u had to get atleast 500k loyalty points which take some time !!!!?? Then u need tags...oficcers one which are costing a fortune!!!!! becouse how big is the chanse that u whil get them your self if u are doing the damn missions concetrated in empire!
I m wondering sometimes how ccp does a great job on eg. balansing the pvp part of the game but ruins competley other part of it ...
PPl that are incharge for those things have to relise how big time consuming agent running is and how boring it is as whell.
In order to feel good playing this game u have to have diversity in it ..doing pvp, making isk for it and so on ...problem is that if u want to pvp which most of the people are playing this game for u have to do missions in ration 50/1...to have isk to cover the losses, getting fansy equipment and so on ...Not to mention unbalansing the missions...U CCP swiched mission running to komlex running and did not changed a thing ..u one more time just swiched one bad thing with the other.
pls...if u make ppl work hard enought for faction ships, make those damn tags officer spown more often so ppl can actualy use those loyalty points and not be forsed to pay fortune for those damn tags due to lack of them.
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Allaina
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Posted - 2005.08.03 20:17:00 -
[11]
Have you guys run a 10/10 complex?
needs 8+ people to do it quickly, a couple hours quickly. The one our alliance runs only spawns keys twice per day and you aren't guranteed a mach bpc everytime (frequently, but not guranteed).
So, as a solo agent runner you think this is unfair? Maybe a little, cause even if a the same group of 8 people ran the complex 24/7 and they got a mach bpc every time and decided to share the bpcs evenly we would still all get our bpcs sooner than the solo agent runner. But that's the nature of group play.
Some cons to the complex path aswell:
Shared bounties.
Questionable loot.
Needs co-ordination with may other players.
No faction standing increase.
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2005.08.03 20:44:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Allaina
Have you guys run a 10/10 complex?
needs 8+ people to do it quickly, a couple hours quickly. The one our alliance runs only spawns keys twice per day and you aren't guranteed a mach bpc everytime (frequently, but not guranteed).
So, as a solo agent runner you think this is unfair? Maybe a little, cause even if a the same group of 8 people ran the complex 24/7 and they got a mach bpc every time and decided to share the bpcs evenly we would still all get our bpcs sooner than the solo agent runner. But that's the nature of group play.
so basicly ur saying that for 8 ppl to have a 1bil bpc u need to do 10-12 runs wich comes to less then a week while as solo it would take a 2-3 months
now point out where the balance is?
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mrg29
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Posted - 2005.08.03 20:52:00 -
[13]
people are mising the main point regarding this subject.
at last patch ccp aligned agent offers for faction ships with the market value at that point in time.
other events since patch have had a significant effect on market value but there is no mechanism for agent offers to be adjusted to reflect this.
this means that the "real" value of agent offers is now out of sync with market value and most agent offers involving faction ships would actually leave u out of pocket if u took them as it is impossible to recoup the isk involved with accepting the offer by re-selling the ships at current rates.
ccp need to urgently review how agent offers are set if they are to give any value with regard to a fluctuating market.
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Hanns
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Posted - 2005.08.04 03:01:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Hanns on 04/08/2005 03:03:29
Heres a tip, if your fed up of doing missions, but still want offers, just leave a mission Active and dont complete it, youll keep getting offers untill the mission expires or u complete it.
And i forgot to add, Agent missions blow, and whoever makes the rewards for the misisons has some kind of twisted sense of humor!
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Allaina
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Posted - 2005.08.04 05:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tenashi
Originally by: Allaina
Have you guys run a 10/10 complex?
needs 8+ people to do it quickly, a couple hours quickly. The one our alliance runs only spawns keys twice per day and you aren't guranteed a mach bpc everytime (frequently, but not guranteed).
So, as a solo agent runner you think this is unfair? Maybe a little, cause even if a the same group of 8 people ran the complex 24/7 and they got a mach bpc every time and decided to share the bpcs evenly we would still all get our bpcs sooner than the solo agent runner. But that's the nature of group play.
so basicly ur saying that for 8 ppl to have a 1bil bpc u need to do 10-12 runs wich comes to less then a week while as solo it would take a 2-3 months
now point out where the balance is?
Pretty sure I admitted to it bein a little unfair.... Let me move my eyes up a little and check.... yep, I admitted its a little unfair.
But then again you are not taking into consideration the relative manhours involved.
lets assume:
10 runs x 2 hours each x 10 characters = 200 man hours (I picked easy numbers)
Solo gamer
90 days (3 months right? playing everyday?) x 4 play hours a day = 270 man hours
You might quibble with my math and make one or the other look like it takes more "work" however I assumed best case scenario for complex and worst for mission runner. So, putting the work load heavily in the mission runner's favor they still only appear to be doing roughly 25% more work than the complex runners. Not quite worthy of a chicken little call for umbrellas is it?
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Rick Dentill
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Posted - 2005.08.04 07:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Allaina
Originally by: Tenashi
Originally by: Allaina
Solo gamer
90 days (3 months right? playing everyday?) x 4 play hours a day = 270 man hours
90 days * 4 play hours = 360 man hours
_______
Save me Jebus!
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/dd.php |
DeODokktor
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Posted - 2005.08.04 10:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: X'Alor
Don't ya just love how CCP rewards the efforts of monthes worth of subscription payments, personal time and effort.
they make them available from complexes on a whim and add some completely ludacris set of offers that rob you of LP and ISK.
you can buy that ship for 150 to 200 mill regularly.
times 8 =
1.6 bill.
but yet the offer for monthes worth of your time effort and real life money is for 2.25 times the ISK.
basically they ruined any reasoning for doing missions for LP rewards for anything but implants.
pretty sad really, finding it harder and harder to do anything in Eve worth my time. For me it was missions and simply aint worth it grouped and boring as crap solo.
the cash-out option was based on everyones attempt at a screw-the-world-and-dog-fest..
Their cash out options are around what these cruisers were selling for on escrow (wonder where ccp got their numbers from)?..
But now we have a better situation.. Ships are coming from plex's.. and now guys are thinking .. "i'll take that offer for 8 4+ implants"..
I have no complaints other than to say that the guys working hard for their faction ships now feel screw'd.. But if they take some of the other nice offers then they can probably buy their luvship for less than what they'll profit off of other rewards.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.04 12:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Space Debris
Firstly is the fact that I have amassed over 500,000 LP with an Angel Cartel lvl 4 agent in the hope of receiving the Machariel offer. Now Im prepared to be patient etc but I have recently been informed that if you stop doing missions you will stop receiving offers.
That has been the case for around five months I think. CCP changed it to stop you being constantly spammed with offers by every agent you had. Good job on paying attention by the way.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Jet Collins
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Posted - 2005.08.04 13:01:00 -
[19]
To Address fairness in equality between the now complex running and missoins, answer me this.
So you say 8-10 people running a complex 10-14 times or whatever, 200 hour might turn up 8 BPC for the faction BS BPC. Now can that same group of people work togeather to compleat a crap load of misisons to get the value of those 8 BPC's in Loot , isk , or other BPC from that agent?
Just wondering.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.08.04 13:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Allaina
Have you guys run a 10/10 complex?
needs 8+ people to do it quickly, a couple hours quickly. The one our alliance runs only spawns keys twice per day and you aren't guranteed a mach bpc everytime (frequently, but not guranteed).
So, as a solo agent runner you think this is unfair? Maybe a little, cause even if a the same group of 8 people ran the complex 24/7 and they got a mach bpc every time and decided to share the bpcs evenly we would still all get our bpcs sooner than the solo agent runner. But that's the nature of group play.
Some cons to the complex path aswell:
Shared bounties.
Questionable loot.
Needs co-ordination with may other players.
No faction standing increase.
And who said anything about solo agent running ...... until you.
We used do it with 3 people minimum. Now the bounties are mostly crap to the point if your doing it with more than 2 people it's utterly worthless for time.
But we've been making a small fortune in veldspar strip mining. Wish we could get LP for selling mins.
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Zaneg
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Posted - 2005.08.04 15:55:00 -
[21]
Directing your anger against eachother is wrong, when you could join that anger against CCP  ..Oops, shouldnt have posted that..
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capt
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Posted - 2005.08.04 16:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Zaneg
Directing your anger against eachother is wrong, when you could join that anger against CCP ..Oops, shouldnt have posted that..
UNITE.
"Union of poor agent runners"
Join now, pay 10.000 isk participation fee and receive your union membership card today.
Together we will fight to to the end, boycot all missions and wardec those scabs still doing the missions.
Together we will make missionrunning a true profession again.
*standup comedy mode off*
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.08.04 16:19:00 -
[23]
Its awfull quiet from CCP on the mission forums these days.
They gave us the short end of the stick and beat us up with it.
1) Nerfed bounties
2) Higher risk
3) Less incentive to do level 4 missions in groups
4) No proper mechancis for groupings but players get pushed in that direction anyways.
5) Decreased value of LP's as bpc drops in complex's is totaly messed up. Why bother buy a empire faction ship when you can get a pirate faction one for far less. Some of the incentive to do level 4 mission been the high end LP offers.
6) Change of missile skills was needed but together with all the changes to missions, the total package is far fetched to say the least. Players that kitted their mission ****s with the "uber" loot did see their kits get devalued and isk flying out of the window.
For months I spent time doing missions to get a faction ship, after that I was kind of sick of missions, but doesn't mean I don't see how CCP dropped a big POO over that profession in EVE. Players that still havent got their faction ship offers and sitt on houndred thousands of LP's is royaly screwed imho.
I done a few level 3 missions lately though and noticed the lp's offered seems to be higher than pre-patch.
But HEY, we make more mine veldspar for no risk in 1.0 and 0.9. The freighter and dread release was a gods gift to miners. Golden Ratio 4tw right CCP? 
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Galk
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Posted - 2005.08.05 00:12:00 -
[24]
This is why a lot of people/mmo players will not turn to eve.
The pve element is unrewarding, you can grind for months on a agent and end up with nothing you realy want. (25 now 4-450k implant offers ftw)
Games of the ilk online reward your effort and progress.. as it now stands, eve does not.
Every overkill ccp introduce is allways met with a total overkill in reverse, never a balance.
The lv4 agents have been a prime example, all we have now is a total hash of a system, rufio spelled it out...
The devs last record answer as a solution....
Wait till kali....
Grand
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Allaina
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Posted - 2005.08.05 04:25:00 -
[25]
I'd like to clarify, I agree there is a problem with agents v. complex atm I just don't think it's as big an issue as you make it out to be.
The reason I brought up solo agent runner was the fact that atm you can't properly pool your effots and pool your LP.
Also a big friggen  for my multiplication error.
Food for thought for the ³ber pro-agent folks: Which complex do we run to get a Navy Issue Apoc?
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Allaina
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Posted - 2005.08.05 05:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Rick Dentill
Edited by: Rick Dentill on 04/08/2005 08:01:01
Originally by: Allaina
Solo gamer
90 days (3 months right? playing everyday?) x 4 play hours a day = 270 man hours
90 days * 4 play hours = 360 man hours
Also were you saying that everyone gets a BPC or is your caluclation for 1 bpc only?
I was putting the odds waaaaaaaaaaaay in the complex's favor i.e. 10 players and 10 runs to get them each their own bpcs. So far it seems closer to 50/50 chance to get one.
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Yazoul Samaiel
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Posted - 2005.08.05 06:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: X'Alor
Seen it coming a mile away and said so about it pre patch but all fell on deaf ears.
Seems they think even people running lvl 1, 2, 3 missions are billionares.
Lets see, navy raven or run a guarista complex for a rattlesnake.
not really a tough choice there. 3 or 4 monthes of hardcore missions, or a one night group affair in a complex. And the rattlesnake is better anyways.
Seems they have adopted a new approach to exodus. instead of boosting 00 to make the rewards so worth it to encourage us to go there. they'd rather make empire so worthless to do anything but safespace veldspar strip mine despite risks to ship losses in missions of harder difficulty and less pay.
Great way to reward an empire law abiding citizen.
And throw in the stupid new offers to boot.
priceless.
]
Signed
True indeed
"What ever that doesnt Kill me just makes me stronger" |
Bane Lord
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Posted - 2005.08.05 17:14:00 -
[28]
yup. after 4 months of 4-8 hour a day mission grinding, i got me a CN raven. too bad now, if i get 5 buddies together. i can get a Rattlesnake in about 4 hours. seriously...
within a WEEK of moving out to 0.0 i have made 10 TIMES more money than i EVER made in empire.
now im starting to feel sorry for the saps who are still strip mining away in Jita/Niya/New Caldari.
While i sit happily in my station, staring at a Rattlesnake fitted with Estamel's XL booster and Invul Field, at my hangar full of 300M in Metroxit and Gniess, and a wallet with enough isk that i could lose a fully kitted BS every day for a month and still have plenty left over.
i hope people start leaving EVE, maybe then CCP will finally realize what their "new features" have done for eve..
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2005.08.05 19:33:00 -
[29]
The prices made sense before the bpcs started to drop.
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SlapNuts
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Posted - 2005.08.05 22:15:00 -
[30]
Is there anyone left in the game (other then a newb) that does not own at least one faction ship now ?
How can agents make offers for ships at 10x+ their market value and then turn around and not adjust their insurance payouts...are they not the same people ?
I think this is almost the same as I felt when Exodos was released, all that hard woprk I did for agents, all my rewards...now what ? they brought in a new system and I have to start from the botem again ??? WTF...
Here we are again at the same spot again, in the last system (before cold war release, agent runners had a goal to work towards, faction ships, implants etc, now anyone can get them. What is there to work toward now ? This is where I have issues, I can not see what I am doing missions for.
Doing missions because i want to do missions is not good enough, the missions repeat themselves way to many times. I do lvl 4 missions myself cause its the only way to make it worth while,,,i think complexes are for teams.../rant off
Anyway, I have been threw a couple of agent mission changes, each of them I said was for the better, wait till you get used to it, then judge it...each of the other mission systems had goals to work toward, faction standing, Building components, Isk...this change really has left me with no goal and no reason to do them anymore.
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