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Suspect RR Flagging Issue

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Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 25	Posted - 2013.02.25 15:41:00 - [1] - Quote Ok so a brief rundown. I'm in a 2 man gang, we have a single RR fit in all of our our highs. I jump into a gate camp, take full aggression from pirates/suspects, and then engage back. My gang mate then enters the fight, and begins to remote rep me. He then ends up going Suspect as a consequence which i think is because he is "interfering with a limited engagement" Surely this is wrong? I'm being aggressed by -5 and below, and everyone who isn't has now gone suspect, my fleet should then be able to freely remote rep me against this. It is NOT a limited engagement just because i defend myself! I'll petition this so it's seen by CCP but thought i'd get some comments on here....
culo duro Federal Enslavement 27	Posted - 2013.02.25 15:55:00 - [2] - Quote Nova Satar wrote: Ok so a brief rundown. I'm in a 2 man gang, we have a single RR fit in all of our our highs. I jump into a gate camp, take full aggression from pirates/suspects, and then engage back. My gang mate then enters the fight, and begins to remote rep me. He then ends up going Suspect as a consequence which i think is because he is "interfering with a limited engagement" Surely this is wrong? I'm being aggressed by -5 and below, and everyone who isn't has now gone suspect, my fleet should then be able to freely remote rep me against this. It is NOT a limited engagement just because i defend myself! I'll petition this so it's seen by CCP but thought i'd get some comments on here.... If you were at war with this person you'd be correct. However you're in a personal war with said person, which means your corp mate is a 'neutral' in that war. If you want it to be differently you'll have to have your RR engage your targets, so he joins the 'war'. RR'ing raises a suspect flag if you're not in the engagement.
Psychotic Monk The Skunkworks 766	Posted - 2013.02.25 16:01:00 - [3] - Quote If it didn't happen, you friend would be able to rep you and nobody, including the people you're fighting, would be able to shoot them. What you're asking for is invincible logi. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. Have a blog, if you care.
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 25	Posted - 2013.02.25 16:24:00 - [4] - Quote Psychotic Monk wrote: If it didn't happen, you friend would be able to rep you and nobody, including the people you're fighting, would be able to shoot them. What you're asking for is invincible logi. No.... This is in low-sec. It's a gate camp, they are all pirates as mentioned. They engage freely regardless of suspect as it makes no difference to them. I have been agressed by OUTLAWS, yet when i receive reps, the repper goes suspect? The point of OUTLAWS is that they forego their security status and rights, we can engage them freely, so why can we not remote rep against them freely? He should not go suspect for repping me against existing suspects or outlaws! The fact it happens makes very little impact on the fight, apart from the fact any other passing neutrals will see us as Suspects when really we shouldnt be.
Tah'ris Khlador Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation 601	Posted - 2013.02.25 22:30:00 - [5] - Quote The RR suspect timer is set to occur if repairing someone in the following situations: The reps receiver is involved in an LE. The reps receiver is at war and has an aggression timer. (Logi being out of corp/alliance) The reps receiver is suspect. It is not coded to identify who the reps receiver is shooting, and was purposefully programmed that if you engage a suspect and then receive reps, your logi would also go suspect. This was in large part due to the amount of complaining about neutral RR. Low sec, high sec, it doesn't matter. Logi in corp or out of it will go suspect if you have an LE and your safety is on yellow. I'm Denzel Washington.
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 29	Posted - 2013.02.26 09:55:00 - [6] - Quote Yeah and thats my point. I understand why it's happening, but i'm asking if this is a mistake in the system? Getting attacked by an outlaw should not constitute a limited engagement, thus meaning any help you receive goes suspect. Why should somebody go suspect for aiding you against an outlaw? People seem to have forgotten what security status means. Security status defines what level of assistance you get from concord, the gate guns and the flagging system. An outlaw gets NO assistance and is a free target. Long story short, The Limited Engagement system needs to just be removed when dealing with Outlaws or Suspects.
Buhhdust Princess Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 481	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:05:00 - [7] - Quote Tbh, it does seem a little silly to go suspect aiding a high security character against an Outlaw. That's less crimewatch and more GoodSamaritanwatch
BadAssMcKill Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army 126	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:06:00 - [8] - Quote What if you shot the outlaw first? Limited Engagement means they can shoot back without taking gate guns etc Starships were meant to fly~
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 29	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:11:00 - [9] - Quote BadAssMcKill wrote: What if you shot the outlaw first? Limited Engagement means they can shoot back without taking gate guns etc True enough, which means i think there must just be a fundamental flaw in it. I agree that if i engage an outlaw he should then be able to shoot back freely, but what i don't understand is that if outlaws attack others, people will go suspect for aiding them....
BadAssMcKill Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army 126	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:16:00 - [10] - Quote Nova Satar wrote: BadAssMcKill wrote: What if you shot the outlaw first? Limited Engagement means they can shoot back without taking gate guns etc True enough, which means i think there must just be a fundamental flaw in it. I agree that if i engage an outlaw he should then be able to shoot back freely, but what i don't understand is that if outlaws attack others, people will go suspect for aiding them.... Oh yeah I agree it is weird but that's Crimewatch for you Starships were meant to fly~
culo duro Federal Enslavement 28	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:19:00 - [11] - Quote Nova Satar wrote: BadAssMcKill wrote: What if you shot the outlaw first? Limited Engagement means they can shoot back without taking gate guns etc True enough, which means i think there must just be a fundamental flaw in it. I agree that if i engage an outlaw he should then be able to shoot back freely, but what i don't understand is that if outlaws attack others, people will go suspect for aiding them.... Were you in combat with him when you started repping?
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 29	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:27:00 - [12] - Quote culo duro wrote: Nova Satar wrote: BadAssMcKill wrote: What if you shot the outlaw first? Limited Engagement means they can shoot back without taking gate guns etc True enough, which means i think there must just be a fundamental flaw in it. I agree that if i engage an outlaw he should then be able to shoot back freely, but what i don't understand is that if outlaws attack others, people will go suspect for aiding them.... Were you in combat with him when you started repping? Yeah, this isn't just one occasion by the way, i fight with outlaws all the time and the flag problem is becoming a pain. I get attacked by outlaws, they go suspect, they take sentry fire, i then attack back... no flags for me. Then when my gang member puts an RR on me, he takes suspect flag. I'm now asking WHY is he going suspect for this? If he interferes in a duel, yes. If he reps me whilst i am suspect, yes. But not when i'm getting attacked by outalws and simply defending myself. That is NOT a limited engagement, there is no mutual consent here, it's just self defence.
culo duro Federal Enslavement 28	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:30:00 - [13] - Quote Nova Satar wrote: culo duro wrote: Nova Satar wrote: BadAssMcKill wrote: What if you shot the outlaw first? Limited Engagement means they can shoot back without taking gate guns etc True enough, which means i think there must just be a fundamental flaw in it. I agree that if i engage an outlaw he should then be able to shoot back freely, but what i don't understand is that if outlaws attack others, people will go suspect for aiding them.... Were you in combat with him when you started repping? Yeah, this isn't just one occasion by the way, i fight with outlaws all the time and the flag problem is becoming a pain. I get attacked by outlaws, they go suspect, they take sentry fire, i then attack back... no flags for me. Then when my gang member puts an RR on me, he takes suspect flag. I'm now asking WHY is he going suspect for this? If he interferes in a duel, yes. If he reps me whilst i am suspect, yes. But not when i'm getting attacked by outalws and simply defending myself. That is NOT a limited engagement, there is no mutual consent here, it's just self defence. This sounds like a bug. It should definently put the 3 of you in a 'war together' if you're in the same corp/alliance and/or fleeted up.
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 29	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:32:00 - [14] - Quote culo duro wrote: Nova Satar wrote: culo duro wrote: Nova Satar wrote: BadAssMcKill wrote: What if you shot the outlaw first? Limited Engagement means they can shoot back without taking gate guns etc True enough, which means i think there must just be a fundamental flaw in it. I agree that if i engage an outlaw he should then be able to shoot back freely, but what i don't understand is that if outlaws attack others, people will go suspect for aiding them.... Were you in combat with him when you started repping? Yeah, this isn't just one occasion by the way, i fight with outlaws all the time and the flag problem is becoming a pain. I get attacked by outlaws, they go suspect, they take sentry fire, i then attack back... no flags for me. Then when my gang member puts an RR on me, he takes suspect flag. I'm now asking WHY is he going suspect for this? If he interferes in a duel, yes. If he reps me whilst i am suspect, yes. But not when i'm getting attacked by outalws and simply defending myself. That is NOT a limited engagement, there is no mutual consent here, it's just self defence. This sounds like a bug. It should definently put the 3 of you in a 'war together' if you're in the same corp/alliance and/or fleeted up. Exactly. Anybody from CCP looking at this care to comment? It was noticed when my fleet mate had his safety on green. He could jump in and shoot back, but when he tried to rep me it wouldn't, and he needed to switch to yellow to get it done.
Cannibal Kane The African Terrorist 1459	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:32:00 - [15] - Quote culo duro wrote: Nova Satar wrote: culo duro wrote: Nova Satar wrote: BadAssMcKill wrote: What if you shot the outlaw first? Limited Engagement means they can shoot back without taking gate guns etc True enough, which means i think there must just be a fundamental flaw in it. I agree that if i engage an outlaw he should then be able to shoot back freely, but what i don't understand is that if outlaws attack others, people will go suspect for aiding them.... Were you in combat with him when you started repping? Yeah, this isn't just one occasion by the way, i fight with outlaws all the time and the flag problem is becoming a pain. I get attacked by outlaws, they go suspect, they take sentry fire, i then attack back... no flags for me. Then when my gang member puts an RR on me, he takes suspect flag. I'm now asking WHY is he going suspect for this? If he interferes in a duel, yes. If he reps me whilst i am suspect, yes. But not when i'm getting attacked by outalws and simply defending myself. That is NOT a limited engagement, there is no mutual consent here, it's just self defence. This sounds like a bug. It should definently put the 3 of you in a 'war together' if you're in the same corp/alliance and/or fleeted up. No it's not. His friend is assisting him in a limited engagement against others. He will go suspect as well. It does not matter that the other guys have gone suspect as well. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 29	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:35:00 - [16] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: culo duro wrote: This sounds like a bug. It should definently put the 3 of you in a 'war together' if you're in the same corp/alliance and/or fleeted up. No it's not. His friend is assisting him in a limited engagement against others. He will go suspect as well. It does not matter that the other guys have gone suspect as well. The very fact it's a limited engagement is the bug.
Cannibal Kane The African Terrorist 1459	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:37:00 - [17] - Quote From another thread posted by Adriel That is correct. The way Crimewatch 2.0 works, is that if anyone remotely assists (remote sebo, projected eccm, RR, etc) another player who: A) Has a suspect timer B) Is in a Limited Engagement C) Is in a different corp and alliance than the RR ship, is at war, and has a PVP flag D) Is an outlaw (in HS) will gain a suspect flag (if set yellow), regardless of their own flagging at the time of rep. If the RR assists someone who is set criminal, the RR ship will gain a criminal flag. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
culo duro Federal Enslavement 28	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:38:00 - [18] - Quote Nova Satar wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: culo duro wrote: This sounds like a bug. It should definently put the 3 of you in a 'war together' if you're in the same corp/alliance and/or fleeted up. No it's not. His friend is assisting him in a limited engagement against others. He will go suspect as well. It does not matter that the other guys have gone suspect as well. The very fact it's a limited engagement is the bug. The limited engagement works as intended. I might have to agree with canes logic. But yeah
Cannibal Kane The African Terrorist 1459	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:39:00 - [19] - Quote Nova Satar wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: culo duro wrote: This sounds like a bug. It should definently put the 3 of you in a 'war together' if you're in the same corp/alliance and/or fleeted up. No it's not. His friend is assisting him in a limited engagement against others. He will go suspect as well. It does not matter that the other guys have gone suspect as well. The very fact it's a limited engagement is the bug. if that is true then petition it. I know it works that way so I don't see it as a bug. Fact of the matter is.... being remote RR should no longer be safe... EVER. Unless using it against war targets and your rr guy is in the same corp as you none of this will happen. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
culo duro Federal Enslavement 28	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:42:00 - [20] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Nova Satar wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: culo duro wrote: This sounds like a bug. It should definently put the 3 of you in a 'war together' if you're in the same corp/alliance and/or fleeted up. No it's not. His friend is assisting him in a limited engagement against others. He will go suspect as well. It does not matter that the other guys have gone suspect as well. The very fact it's a limited engagement is the bug. if that is true then petition it. I know it works that way so I don't see it as a bug. Fact of the matter is.... being remote RR should no longer be safe... EVER. Unless using it against war targets and your rr guy is in the same corp as you none of this will happen. Let's DEC THE UNIVERSE!
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 30	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:42:00 - [21] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: From another thread posted by Adriel That is correct. The way Crimewatch 2.0 works, is that if anyone remotely assists (remote sebo, projected eccm, RR, etc) another player who: A) Has a suspect timer B) Is in a Limited Engagement C) Is in a different corp and alliance than the RR ship, is at war, and has a PVP flag D) Is an outlaw (in HS) will gain a suspect flag (if set yellow), regardless of their own flagging at the time of rep. If the RR assists someone who is set criminal, the RR ship will gain a criminal flag. Which is nice in theory, but it's like CCP have forgotten about lowsec, again, and now have a hole in their sytem which i am trying to highlight. They need to tweak the Limited Engagement part of this so that when attacked by outlaws, it doesnt create a limited enagagement to defend yourself. Because what happens is, after 5 minutes of me and my fleet member fighting on the gate, the pirates will ALWAYS then call in backup, and every backup pilot that lands is free to engage us without sentry fire or flags because we have had to endure suspect flags ourselves just because we defended ourselves.
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 30	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:44:00 - [22] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Nova Satar wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: culo duro wrote: This sounds like a bug. It should definently put the 3 of you in a 'war together' if you're in the same corp/alliance and/or fleeted up. No it's not. His friend is assisting him in a limited engagement against others. He will go suspect as well. It does not matter that the other guys have gone suspect as well. The very fact it's a limited engagement is the bug. if that is true then petition it. I know it works that way so I don't see it as a bug. Fact of the matter is.... being remote RR should no longer be safe... EVER. Unless using it against war targets and your rr guy is in the same corp as you none of this will happen. Should war targets be any different to Outlaws?!? No, and yes he was in my corp. To be hoenst this really is no different to having a war in empire, and then all going suspect for using remote reps against your war targets.
culo duro Federal Enslavement 28	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:46:00 - [23] - Quote Nova Satar wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: Nova Satar wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: culo duro wrote: This sounds like a bug. It should definently put the 3 of you in a 'war together' if you're in the same corp/alliance and/or fleeted up. No it's not. His friend is assisting him in a limited engagement against others. He will go suspect as well. It does not matter that the other guys have gone suspect as well. The very fact it's a limited engagement is the bug. if that is true then petition it. I know it works that way so I don't see it as a bug. Fact of the matter is.... being remote RR should no longer be safe... EVER. Unless using it against war targets and your rr guy is in the same corp as you none of this will happen. Should war targets be any different to Outlaws?!? No, and yes he was in my corp. To be hoenst this really is no different to having a war in empire, and then all going suspect for using remote reps against your war targets. But that's the thing you're not attacking "War Targets" you're attacking Outlaws.
Cannibal Kane The African Terrorist 1459	Posted - 2013.02.26 10:47:00 - [24] - Quote Like I said... Petition it then. I don't see it as an Issue since I don't rely on RR to get kills. Your RR gains your engagement timer so in the past having RR hug the gate jumping the second the pirates shoot them is a thing of the past. And it is good. Suck it up. War targets and Outlaws are not the same... They did not engage your RR they engaged YOU. Your RR guys is affectingly interfering in a fight he is not involved in. So he goes suspect. It really is not that hard to understand that. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 31	Posted - 2013.02.26 11:09:00 - [25] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Like I said... Petition it then. I don't see it as an Issue since I don't rely on RR to get kills. Your RR gains your engagement timer so in the past having RR hug the gate jumping the second the pirates shoot them is a thing of the past. And it is good. Suck it up. War targets and Outlaws are not the same... They did not engage your RR they engaged YOU. Your RR guys is affectingly interfering in a fight he is not involved in. So he goes suspect. It really is not that hard to understand that. I can't disagree more, and don;t start saying ** like 'relying on RR to get kills'. I don't have guardians sitting on gates at zero, i'm glad thats gone. The last case of this was me in a 3 man prophecy gang, with 1 med RR each, jumping into a gate camp consisting of: Astarte, Tengu, Maelstrom, Abaddon, Phobos, Cane, Cane and eventually 2 onieros. So we very much are "sucking it up" and making do. Engagement timer is totally different, engagement timer is a good thing, and stops neutral RR working with complete immunity. You realise, it's possible to get an engagement timer without going suspect? I'm not complaining about the engagement timer, i'm complaining about the totally pointless suspect timer that comes with it. The people we are fighting dont give two *** if we get a suspect timer or not, they will shoot anyway, nobody is trying to jump out, nobody is interfering in another fight, everyone is well and truly part of the fight themselves. The problem is that as more and more pile into the fight from the outlaw side, they eventually negate any sentry fire due to flags. Yet another boost for the already advantaged pirate side. Just like how they can send a flight of 30 ECM drones our way without having to worry about drone sentry aggro anymore. PS - It has been petitioned
Ynot Eyob Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front 312	Posted - 2013.02.26 13:15:00 - [26] - Quote The latest low sec roams we have had, and engaged "red" fleets, we tend to have the RR put drone to assist the target caller and make sure the drone hit once before start RR. That way you wont go suspect with your RR as you have the same limited timer. But i have to agree, its bull, if you have two-tree guadians helping fighting a falgged fleet, all guadians become instant flagged regardless if it within corp or not, just using their cap transfer. This is in low sec we talk about btw. Nisroc Angels Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 31	Posted - 2013.02.26 13:22:00 - [27] - Quote Ynot Eyob wrote: The latest low sec roams we have had, and engaged "red" fleets, we tend to have the RR put drone to assist the target caller and make sure the drone hit once before start RR. That way you wont go suspect with your RR as you have the same limited timer. But i have to agree, its bull, if you have two-tree guadians helping fighting a falgged fleet, all guadians become instant flagged regardless if it within corp or not, just using their cap transfer. This is in low sec we talk about btw. Cheers for the tip, the very fact you can do this to avoid the flag shows that the system is bugged. What a waste of time having to assist drones before engaging!
Tah'ris Khlador Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation 601	Posted - 2013.02.26 13:50:00 - [28] - Quote Nova Satar wrote: I can't disagree more, and don;t start saying ** like 'relying on RR to get kills'. I don't have guardians sitting on gates at zero, i'm glad thats gone. Yes, the reign of terror from the ever so visible Guardian on the gate is over. Oh wait. Nope. Still happens. I'm Denzel Washington.**
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen Lords.Of.Midnight 63	Posted - 2013.02.26 20:22:00 - [29] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: From another thread posted by Adriel That is correct. The way Crimewatch 2.0 works, is that if anyone remotely assists (remote sebo, projected eccm, RR, etc) another player who: ... B) Is in a Limited Engagement C) Is in a different corp and alliance than the RR ship, is at war, and has a PVP flag .. will gain a suspect flag (if set yellow), regardless of their own flagging at the time of rep. This may be 'working as intended' from a CCP perspective, but defies logic play wise. If someone RR's someone in a limited engagement who isn't a suspect/criminal they should just be added into that limited engagement, not be taken to the 'suspect' level and shootable by anyone. The person I am repping isn't carrying a suspect flag, why am I inheriting one? This implementation was obviously a programming shortcut to reduce the scope of limited engagements, but a bad idea in practice IMHO. Sure, make me blappable by the opponent of the person I am repping -- but not the whole world. http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca
Adriel Malakai Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 287	Posted - 2013.02.26 21:16:00 - [30] - Quote Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: This may be 'working as intended' from a CCP perspective, but defies logic play wise. If someone RR's someone in a limited engagement who isn't a suspect/criminal they should just be added into that limited engagement, not be taken to the 'suspect' level and shootable by anyone. The person I am repping isn't carrying a suspect flag, why am I inheriting one? This implementation was obviously a programming shortcut to reduce the scope of limited engagements, but a bad idea in practice IMHO. Sure, make me blappable by the opponent of the person I am repping -- but not the whole world. This entire portion of Crimewatch 2.0 is in by design to "Reduce the spiderweb of individual flags because it's very confusing to know who can shoot whom." This will not change, as CCP thinks individual flagging should be as limited as possible. Many of us argued with Greyscale about this when they were designing the mechanics because they are overly simplified. As far as the work-around goes, abuse the **** out of it while you can, but don't be surprised if you get warned/temp-banned if/when it gets ruled an exploit.
Ynot Eyob Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front 312	Posted - 2013.03.01 08:27:00 - [31] - Quote I serious find it broken. It cant be right that you cant roam AT all without you logi being suspects, unless they assign their drones to a target caller and wait for the drones to hit first. This means you risk to lose your logi on every gate you pass, and your having a hard time passing empire if needed for 15 min. I fully understand the flagging if you use neutral rep, but the logi should get same flag as the people they are reparing. So if people engage someone in low sec -10, they get a limited agression timer against same targets. If the repair people going suspect they should be suspect flag to, if they repair people who dont get a suspect flag, they should get a suspect falg. If they do neutral RR against someone at WAR they should be suspect flag, as they interfear in a WAR not theirs. Nisroc Angels Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 35	Posted - 2013.03.01 10:21:00 - [32] - Quote i think i should make it clear.... Logistics in neutral fights SHOULD be punished. You should not be able to just remote rep with immunity and leave when you please. Using Logisics to remote repair suspects should result in a suspect flag, and using logistics in empire in neuitral fights should also result in the flag. My argument here is that using logistics against outlaws or exsisting suspects who have ALREADY agressed your corp members, should NOT result in any flags. If you roll in a spider rep gang, you can be fully agressed by an outlaw camp, yet somehow you are the side who all end up as suspects. BROKEN
Alice Saki Suddenly Spaced Out Suddenly Spaceships. 31962	Posted - 2013.03.01 10:38:00 - [33] - Quote I agree, If your attacking a Pirate there should be no Consequences cause well we're Pirates.... YARRRRRR! Thanks Zimmy <3
Cannibal Kane The African Terrorist 1471	Posted - 2013.03.01 13:32:00 - [34] - Quote Ynot Eyob wrote: If they do neutral RR against someone at WAR they should be suspect flag, as they interfear in a WAR not theirs. Consider a limited engagement between people a mini 5 minute war. Your Logi is interfering in that little mini war as well so he goes suspect. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS
TheGunslinger42 All Web Investigations 1026	Posted - 2013.03.01 14:14:00 - [35] - Quote summary of thread: bawwww I used my neutral RR alt to interfere but I can't do that without consequence now bawww
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 37	Posted - 2013.03.01 14:54:00 - [36] - Quote TheGunslinger42 wrote: summary of thread: bawwww I used my neutral RR alt to interfere but I can't do that without consequence now bawww read the thread you imbecile
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 37	Posted - 2013.03.01 14:57:00 - [37] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Ynot Eyob wrote: If they do neutral RR against someone at WAR they should be suspect flag, as they interfear in a WAR not theirs. Consider a limited engagement between people a mini 5 minute war. Your Logi is interfering in that little mini war as well so he goes suspect. Stop calling it "your logi" as that seems to be confusing a couple of people. We're not talking about neutral RR alts interfering in fights between other corps. We are talking about fleet members, in the same corp, with spider-rep fit ships. 2 two corp members in combat ships, with a single rr, or perhaps rr drones, who cannot rep each other when fighting agaisnt outalws! Summary of event for the mentally deficient: Corp Mates Combat Ships with RR Fighting agaisnt Outlaws Suspect Flag placed onto non-outlaw parties.
Prekaz The Gentlemen's Corporation 24	Posted - 2013.03.01 17:33:00 - [38] - Quote It seems like it would make more sense if RRing simply added the neutral to the existing LE instead of making them go suspect. It makes perfect sense that the other side of the LE would be able to shoot at them for repping, it doesn't make a lot of sense that the universe at large can. Still a consequence that way, just one that actually makes sense.
Ristlin Wakefield Wanderers of the Eternal Darkness Eternal Pretorian Alliance 299	Posted - 2013.03.01 18:49:00 - [39] - Quote Nova, have you tried RRing AFTER your fleetmate engages the opponent? Remember, the gate campers trigger suspect as soon as they engage you in low-sec. Triggering suspect allows anyone to fight back...now if you choose to attack back, you trigger a limited engagement. See what happens if you and your fleetmates trigger the engagement before remote repping one another. I agree that as the defender, your RRing shouldn't trigger suspect IF all members are in the same fleet, on grid, and have limited engagements with the attacker. I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 212	Posted - 2013.03.01 18:50:00 - [40] - Quote Nova Satar wrote: I get attacked by outlaws, they go suspect, they take sentry fire, i then attack back... no flags for me. Then when my gang member puts an RR on me, he takes suspect flag. I'm now asking WHY is he going suspect for this? If he interferes in a duel, yes. If he reps me whilst i am suspect, yes. But not when i'm getting attacked by outalws and simply defending myself. That is NOT a limited engagement, there is no mutual consent here, it's just self defence. Crimewatch 2.0 loophole that should be fixed. How long you think it will take CCP to: A) Read this forum B) Realize how stupid this is C) Fix it Not today spaghetti.
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 39	Posted - 2013.03.03 11:57:00 - [41] - Quote the only way to handle this is to treat HIGH-sec and LOW-sec as two very different things, which they are! this isn't about trying to bring back neutral logi, the complete opposite. If you use logistics on somebody elses fight in high sec the best way to handle this is to become a suspect in local which everybody can then attack. You are interferring and must pay the consequences.... ....but repping your own corpmates in LOW-sec should absolutely not be cause for a suspect flag. ESPECIALLY having been attacked by outlaws already. If you rep a suspect you go suspect. If you rep a neutral, you go suspect for interferance. If you rep a CORPMATE, you should NOT get a suspect flag. Especially when said corpmate has just been attacked by outlaws! Think of it like wartargets. Imagine if you are at War in empire, and you bring out a spider rep fleet, then as soon as an engagement happens you all go suspect for repping your corpmates against wartargets, it's the same thing! its madness!
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 39	Posted - 2013.03.03 12:01:00 - [42] - Quote Ristlin Wakefield wrote: Nova, have you tried RRing AFTER your fleetmate engages the opponent? Remember, the gate campers trigger suspect as soon as they engage you in low-sec. Triggering suspect allows anyone to fight back...now if you choose to attack back, you trigger a limited engagement. See what happens if you and your fleetmates trigger the engagement before remote repping one another. I agree that as the defender, your RRing shouldn't trigger suspect IF all members are in the same fleet, on grid, and have limited engagements with the attacker. We did try this but its hard to test mid fight when already at a disadvantage! We dont believe it works, becuase it either creates a seperate limited engagement, or it doesnt create one at all becuase the pirate hasnt shot that person back yet (too busy shooting me still)
B17332 Single Barrel Securities Trust Jack Daniel's Industries 3	Posted - 2013.03.03 22:27:00 - [43] - Quote So let's say you have a high sec mining fleet that's running a spider tank setup for shinnanigans. Also say they have drones out and they're agressive little buggers. So if someone were to come along and shoot one of the miners, receive a hit from the drones, the entire fleet would go suspect? Sounds like an awesome mechanic to me.
culo duro EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 36	Posted - 2013.03.03 22:37:00 - [44] - Quote B17332 wrote: So let's say you have a high sec mining fleet that's running a spider tank setup for shinnanigans. Also say they have drones out and they're agressive little buggers. So if someone were to come along and shoot one of the miners, receive a hit from the drones, the entire fleet would go suspect? Sounds like an awesome mechanic to me. He'd just get the Criminal flag not the suspect flag i believe.
Tah'ris Khlador Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation 686	Posted - 2013.03.04 01:51:00 - [45] - Quote culo duro wrote: B17332 wrote: So let's say you have a high sec mining fleet that's running a spider tank setup for shinnanigans. Also say they have drones out and they're agressive little buggers. So if someone were to come along and shoot one of the miners, receive a hit from the drones, the entire fleet would go suspect? Sounds like an awesome mechanic to me. He'd just get the Criminal flag not the suspect flag i believe. The one whose drones aggressed would gain an LE. The rest depends on the safety settings of everyone else. I'm Denzel Washington.
Ynot Eyob Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front 312	Posted - 2013.03.04 08:30:00 - [46] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Ynot Eyob wrote: If they do neutral RR against someone at WAR they should be suspect flag, as they interfear in a WAR not theirs. Consider a limited engagement between people a mini 5 minute war. Your Logi is interfering in that little mini war as well so he goes suspect. Well the mini WAR your are talking about it 1 man agains maby 5??! Lets say we have a small 5 man fleet. 3 T1 Cruisers and 2 Logi within same corp or alliance. We jump into a 15 man red flashy gatecamp (Which often happens) Fight is on. Regardless the out come your logi are now valid targets to everyone in EVE. They jumpped into the fight to and had you mini war in a fight of 5 vs 15, and was as much a part of the fight as anyone in the fleet, why should they be punnished just because they are logi. They should have the same timers as they guys they are repping. They should not go suspect. Nisroc Angels Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 39	Posted - 2013.03.04 10:34:00 - [47] - Quote B17332 wrote: So let's say you have a high sec mining fleet that's running a spider tank setup for shinnanigans. Also say they have drones out and they're agressive little buggers. So if someone were to come along and shoot one of the miners, receive a hit from the drones, the entire fleet would go suspect? Sounds like an awesome mechanic to me. Im not sure how the safety settings work if the reps are already running. It might just deactivate your remote reps as it shouldn't allow you to rep the person if on green, but as you were already repping him it might not, in whch case yes your whole mining fleet would go suspect becuase you've interferred with a "limited enagement" between the ganker and the miner getting ganked. This is precisely my issue. CCP seem to think limited engagements offer some sort of honourable and mutual enagement, but if you are attacked by gankers, or pirates, or existing suspects and simply want to defend yourselves through IN-CORP logistics, you can't.
Nova Satar Rekall Incorporated Sinewave Alliance 39	Posted - 2013.03.04 10:39:00 - [48] - Quote Ynot Eyob wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: Ynot Eyob wrote: If they do neutral RR against someone at WAR they should be suspect flag, as they interfear in a WAR not theirs. Consider a limited engagement between people a mini 5 minute war. Your Logi is interfering in that little mini war as well so he goes suspect. Well the mini WAR your are talking about it 1 man agains maby 5??! Lets say we have a small 5 man fleet. 3 T1 Cruisers and 2 Logi within same corp or alliance. We jump into a 15 man red flashy gatecamp (Which often happens) Fight is on. Regardless the out come your logi are now valid targets to everyone in EVE. They jumpped into the fight to and is part of your mini war in a fight of 5 vs 15, and was as much a part of the fight as anyone in the fleet. Why should they be punnished just because they are logi. They should have the same timers as they guys they are repping. They should not go suspect. In WARs, your logi can fine do their job without going suspect. Correct, as soon as you jump in you will all need to set your safety to yellow straight away, even though you are fighting OUTLAWS, you will need to go suspect to do so. its absolutely ridiculous. Logisitcs users should most definitely adopt aggro timers and be valid targets for your enemy but them going suspect is pointless and stupid in low-sec in these circumstances Its a mechanic that CCP are being too lazy to address, because it involves some serious thought. The tricky part is that logistics should go suspect when interfering in somebody elses fight, but not when you are working with your own corp/ally against existing suspects or criminals. CCP need to make a distinction between what is interference and what is simply pvp. Repping a corpmate who is being attacked by outlaws is NOT interference ffs

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