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Xane
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Posted - 2003.07.21 09:02:00 -
[31]
I wish for my game persona to be likened to organized crime kingpins and famous bank robbers, not the predecessors to goddamn Barney.
I'm just wondering what sort of Security Rating a "crime kingpin" would have ?
x a n e |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:28:00 -
[32]
Chai, are you arguing to argue or do you really not get the point? Can you not see that mining and trade are a means to an end? Much as running and kicking a soccer ball is eventually about scoring a goal?
I fear you are either trolling or one of those people that "just doesn't get it" and never will.
Please tell me you don't think monopoly is as much a game about rolling dice and moving pieces around a board as it is about controling all the spaces and dominating your opponents.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:38:00 -
[33]
Lola, l-l-l-l-l lola.
Good point. Eve is about killing carebears. I declare open season now.
Find a miner, nick his ore, then pod him at the nearest opportunity.
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Dead
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Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:39:00 -
[34]
Lola,
Either you do not get my message, or I do not get yours. At least I do not make statements about you "never getting my point". Explain to me why this is a game about killing and I might. Then again, that'll move the talk away from the topic.
When I use my mining char I mine to make money to get better mining gear, not to get better weapons to kill players better with (to kill NPC-pirates that want to keep me from mining, yes).
Guess your point truely is lost on the apparent ignorant people like me.
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Tyr Bowman
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:40:00 -
[35]
Posted by Lola
"IMO the two playstyles can never coexist in the same game. SimCity and WarCraft are both fun but trying to mix the two will never work for reasons that should be obvious. The SimCity fans will always call the WarCraft fans griefers. The WarCraft fans will always call the SimCity fans carebears.
The issue lies in the fact that in the rush to try to take everyones money the developers try to be everything to everyone at the players expense.
Until some company finds a way to let the SimCity types have some sort of way to advance that doesn't in any way effect the WarCraft types we're going to have forums around the world erupting with CareBear/Griefer arguments."
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Neocron had a great way of acheiving this.
When you start a new character you get a little removable chip in your head which makes you immune to enemy fire. It also means your fire wont hurt other players.
This was good because it meant new players and people who dont enjoy PVP can go wandering around in the wilderness without worrying about a maxed out player with malicious intentions popping them from 3 miles away with their uber rare assault rifle.
The trouble is it meant you got considerably less XP each time you did somthing like kill a monster or make an item so most people, myself included, just unequipped theirs.
It took a long time to equip, so you dident have people simply plugging their chip in if it looked like they where going to an early grave in the middle of a PVP firefight.
This system worked really well. "If you dont like PVP, then plug in yer chip". Unfortunately its not a very RP friendly solution, and seeing as CCP seem to like the idea of their players RPing, i cant really see a similar solution which could be implemented in Eve which would keep the RPers as well as the (i hesitate to use the term Carebear) "people who dont enjoy PVP" happy.
Edited by: Tyr Bowman on 21/07/2003 10:53:55
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:42:00 -
[36]
If u don't like PVP, don't play it. Simple.
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Dead
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:14:00 -
[37]
Chai did you just say all you ever want to do is mine to get better mining equipment and nothing more? So I have an Apocolyse with 8 Cu Vapors, a drone bay full of harvesters and low slots full of the best expanders woooo!!!!! I win, game over?
You're seriously going to pay CCP a monthly fee to stare at the same damn rocks day in and day out for the next year or two? If you just want to play EVE like it's a chat room why even mine? Somehow I can't believe you actually want that. I think under that pink fuzzy suit you're parading around in you actually do want combat. I think there is no way you picked EVE out of all the games you could possibly play because you heard it was a good space mining sim. I think you're just here on the forum playing devil's advocate.
Then again maybe CCP should add a switch to the game that completely turns off your wallet and all abilities to PVP what-so-ever. Who am I to say how people should spend their time and money. Until that switch gets added though, don't come here crying that your poor defenceless mining alt/trading alt/manufacting alt/ceo alt got shot at and isn't in as good a position to supply your combat main.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:35:00 -
[38]
OK. Declarations first - I am a Carebear! I don't have a problem with the label. It suits me. I like to help people. For me that's pretty much all the label means.
However, what I DON'T want is for the EVE universe to consist entirely of Carebears. What is the point? I've been a roleplayer for 25 years now (yes, there are wrinkles under the fur). The whole point of roleplaying is to expose yourself (in a limited, vicarious way) to risks that you would never encounter in real life. RISKS! I don't care where that risk comes from - I personally think CCP made a mistake programming the pirates to leave pods alone - at least they would never have resorted to exploits to promote griefing. But again, as long as I have played RPG's, there has always been some tw(insert vowel here)t who wants to lord it over every other character. It's just life.
I respect the choice of every player who wants to play the game - if they want to sit outside a station and vape Noobs all day, then so be it. It's not what _I_ would call roleplaying, but you CAN roleplay your way out if it. It's up to the Noobs to get together, and all run out of the station in one go so that at least SOME of them survive. Or join a corp and request support from the corp to hybrid cannon the griefer outside the station back to the stone age. Or sit there and whine. It's amazing how often they can only see the third choice, but the game is so involved, there are ways around almost ANY problem.
Me I want to make loads of money, and watch the story unfold - both the story that CCP will introduce ("The Scenario") and other little sidelines that will inevitably develop. I have chosen NOT to join a corp, and I accept that this means that I will likely NEVER own a Titan, and that when I am running through any space lower than 0.5, I am on my own. Life is hard.
Long Live Carebears and the Pirates who prey upon them, for without the light, there can be no shadow.
Edited by: Grey Area on 21/07/2003 11:36:20
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:37:00 -
[39]
Tyr Bowman, yes I played neocron for quite a few months. It had some very good systems that CCP could learn a lot from. It also had far more bugs then EVE ever had. I left Neocron for the bugs and lack of players. At this point when I leave EVE it will be for lack of content.
The law chip idea was pretty good. I left mine in for about a week. You couldn't join a guild and your XP went up half as fast. In EVE they would need to make your skills train half as fast, NPC bounty give half as much, no ability to join corps outside the noobie corps, mining take twice as long and I can't see any way to allow trade.(maybe only licenced goods?) If they did that then I can see a possibly no PVP switch. It might even help to increase pvp as they could turn off CONCORD. The no pvp people should also not be able to take things from people cargo cans. I can't really see any of that being a problem to these players who say all they want to do is hang out with friends and mine.
Another thing Neocron had was a few total non-weapon zones. Plaza 1 was great, you could get implants and barter with people including the biggests PKs in the game and the atmosphere was generally cordial. I enjoyed my time in neocron.
Getting back on topic SWG has all sorts of things for the non-combat type to do. There are like 1000 emotes and quite a few different dance steps to learn. EVE has nothing like that. All it has are guns ships and ways to make money. People who play SWG shouldn't be whining about carebears. People who play EVE were sold on a cut throat gritty environment with nations at the brink of war and pirates out to steal our goods at every turn. Not Ewoks and Twi'lek dancers.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:47:00 -
[40]
I'm replying to my own post, which is bad, but I've read a few of the other comments and I had to add another bit.
Carebears really should take the time to learn as much about the combat system as they have about the market and mining system. I speak to people who can give me spot on perfect mineral yields for all the ores FROM MEMORY, including bonuses for refining skill, and profit in terms of both ISK per tonne or ISK per hour. I also know people who can tell me the fifty best trade runs in Lonetrek.
Dammit, learn the combat system in the same way! Find out what skills you need, not to fight back, but to RUN AWAY! The trouble is you want to kit your Badger out with nothing but cargo expanders, and then you are surprised when some git in an Ibis comes and gets through your paper thin hull in twenty seconds. I ran the m0o blockade (prior to the cargo can lag trick, which was a simple exploit and was treated as such by CCP) on several occasions. They were so set up for "Awesome Damage Mode" that any ship with even a feeble attempt at ECM warfare could sail through untargetted and untouched.
My point? Any sort of specialisation can be taken too far.....
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:49:00 -
[41]
Now I definitely know you are not reading what I write, Lola. Guess you just read what you want to read.
Some people play two 'main' characters you know. And with this one (Chai) I've not mined a rock since 2 days after I started and never fired a mining laser again.
Just add the fact that I play Minmatarr, run my own Corp, read what the corp is into, put it all together and start feeling silly.
What I do with my mining character which is a different one from this one FYO is a different story. And as mining for me gets boring after a while I swap to this action character.
And because I run two different types of character is exactly the reason why I loathe people who put carebear or griefer labels on people.
Edit: spelling
Edited by: Chai N'Dorr on 21/07/2003 11:50:50
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DeusXi
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:49:00 -
[42]
you know what I like to do to vent over all this BS?
Type up a really really really long post. Read it. Laugh at myself for how retarded it looks. Delete it.
I suggest a few of you try this.
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Am I evil? No I'm not =P |
slothe
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:55:00 -
[43]
carebears.
i have no problem with people who want to trade or produce in this game, that in itself does not mean someone who is a carebear.
i would define a carebear as someone who complains being killed in a situation that is entirely of there own making.
e.g."i mined/traded/whatever, got decent ship/cargo and i am annoyed that i got killed while flying through (0.0) space, this is unfair ....etc...etc"
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
http://www.khainestar.com/eve |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:03:00 -
[44]
So you have a mining alt that you use purely for the fun of mining with? You don't interact with other players at all when you are on your mining alt other than to further you career as a miner who like to collect the best mining gear. Once you have the best mining gear any and all ore you mine is purely for the sake mining and collecting ore just to look at it and see what kind of little stacks you can make in your hangar. You will never use anything your mining alt collects to advance himself beyond being a mining alt or any other charactersin any way. This is what you are telling me? If you say it is true I will believe you and say more power to you. I strongly feel however that you are in the extreme minority if you say this is true.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
DeusXi
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:10:00 -
[45]
What's wrong with being in the minority? I have 2 accounts and use both to simply mine and run ores/mins. Sure maybe one day I'll hop on the combat bandwagon too, but not untill I know I can kick some major ass. I'm not stupid ya know. Noway am I gunna let Ywev pod me later =P
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Am I evil? No I'm not =P |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:14:00 -
[46]
DeusXi, by your statement "Sure maybe one day I'll hop on the combat bandwagon too, but not untill I know I can kick some major ass." You are clearing not in the minority. I'd say that is the attitude of the majority of this games player base.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
DeusXi
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:18:00 -
[47]
ah yes, good point... but *currently* and for a long time yet to come, I shall remain in my little safe places and only peek out in my 1583 m/s vigil ;)
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Am I evil? No I'm not =P |
Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:30:00 -
[48]
lol@Lola
Stop assuming things and drawing conclusions from those assumptions and just read what I write. Perhaps we understand each other better that way and can actually have a meaningful discussion about it.
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Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:33:00 -
[49]
Damn you DeusXi, got my Vigil 'peaked' at 1280 m/s at the moment...
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Xtreme Wrath
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:54:00 -
[50]
Carebears? They taste great with butter and garlic if you don't overcook them.
Griefers? They all inevitabley get what they dish out since there will always be someone a little bigger and little bit badder kinda like the stay puft marshmallow man...
The rest of us? Enjoy the game and take it all in stride and realize IT'S ONLY FERKING GAME.
Point being that playstyles differ, if there were no pirates to worry about then this would simply be Earth and Beyond with better graphics... <shudders>
'Nuff said ;o)
What we do in Life, echoes in eternity
Strength and honor |
Barl Rathbone
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:55:00 -
[51]
What on earth is the issue here ?
So some players like PVP, some dont.
The eve universe is setup to allow both.
"Carebears" can stay in 1.0 space if they want to take on a peaceful career - which is a valid way to play the game.
Those who want to PvP etc also have plenty of places to do so - again a valid way to play the game.
To say either way is wrong and should be removed is totally ridiculous.
The main attraction of Eve is the depth of the universe and the opportunities that are within the game.
A pure trading game, or a pure PVP game would be pretty dull in my book.
(PS I am a miner/manafacturer but should I ever die at the hands of the player I will just have to accept it is a dangerous place !)
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:55:00 -
[52]
I already made my point long ago. It's that mining and trade are a means to an end. That is, to gain wealth. The only things to buy in the game are weapons, ships or other things with which to better your money making potential. You contradicted that statement and said something to the effect of "It's not the destination, it's the jouney". I'm trying to show you that as long as a game has build and smash features that it doesn't matter how much you enjoy building some other player is going to come smash. The term "carebear" would only come in to play if you came on the forum and cried about "griefers". Until your building features have as little effect on other's smashing features as the carebears want smashing features to have on building features we're going to have problems. Do you see what I'm saying?
You can "like" moving your chess pieces forward all you want. You can consider chess to be a game that is all about moving your pieces forward. Just don't cry about getting into checkmate and I won't cry about you moving your pieces forward.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:23:00 -
[53]
Jeesh... could you just have done with all the 'fuzzy suit stuff' and 'telling that I'd never' get it.. and posted this earlier? :)
Cause now I (finally) do understand what you mean with your weapons and guns. You garbled that really well in the post I replied to.
Still, there's plenty more (at least for me) to safe up wealth for than solely guns. Don't have your BB with 8 CU's yet, nor 10 Harvesters and 10 Ogre drones (or the skills for that matter), for my mining-alt. Nor do I have the money yet to buy 10 Imi's and outfit them for the newbies that join the (newbie) Corp as I am planning to do down the road.
Neither do I have the AB's and Overdrives (or whatever module) that Deus has to make my Vigil go faster than his... so it's not all about weapons or ships. Can afford a Cruiser, just don't want to buy one.
Kinda lost what all this has to do with carebear-labels tho'.
;)
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Ruby LeFonte
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:25:00 -
[54]
I like the carebears too!
Edited by: Ruby LeFonte on 21/07/2003 13:26:03
Just because we are paranoid, doesn't mean you're not out to get us. |
Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:49:00 -
[55]
"Not a bad post. Although if the author was here I'd argue......"
No way Jash. you'd argue?? get outta here...
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If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:53:00 -
[56]
This is going to be my last post in this thread for at least 10 hours.
This has to do with carebears because they are the ones who want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to safely mine or trade until whatever point they feel ready to venture out into the big bad world and then cry about it when they get themselves in a situation they couldn't handle and call other players griefers for beating them. The original post might be interesting to think about but the fact remains that SWG caters far more to the carebear playsytle than EVE does. EVE has no dance emotes, no entertainer proffesion and no menu options to ask another player if it's ok for you to shoot them. EVE only has CONCORD. Until CCP adds a PVP off switch or people realize that EVE was built to be dangerous and stop crying on the forums to nerf the pirates because their indy full of bistot got popped then you are going to read the word carebear.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
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