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spankyster
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Posted - 2003.07.20 20:04:00 -
[1]
here is what this guy said on the swg forums i found it a interesting read gave me something to think about
"God am I sick of the term "Carebear". I can't think of a more insulting term, so effing condescending its enough to make you puke. People who regularly throw it out just show their ignorance, narrowmindedness, and stupidity when they do so. I am so very glad I don't know any of them.
Just because someone plays a game with a different attitude and objectives than you do, does not make them inferior, bad players, idiots, or folks who just can't handle "hardcore". What total BS.
For the record, I have played both PvE and PvP style games. I prefer a mix myself, but just because I have my preference doesn't mean it is inherently superior to anyone else's preferences. Taking that attitude merely betrays one's immaturity.
As a result of the constant use of the term Carebear for anyone who disagrees with the idea that all games *must* involve constantly killing other players characters - preferably when they are really weak so they never get a chance to get ahead - and avoiding all even fights because they might be a challege (so called "griefing") - which is what most non-PvP people object to I think, how bout we coin a term for people with this attitude? How about using A**holes to refer to them?
No, I am not seriously suggesting this - that would make me as hypocritical as can be since I am denegrating those who insist on such terms. But the more I hear folks use the term Carebear for anyone who disagrees with their personal view of what a game should be the more I mentally label them as such - its really hard to avoid it.
Games are games, each person gets what they want out of them or they stop playing. No MMORPG is completely focused on one aspect of the whole genre with the expectation of appealing to all types of players. This was the downfall of Shadowbane to my mind - it focused very heavily on PvP and not all players are interested in that particular type of gaming. SWG has a broader focus - and therefore there are more ways it can be played. Complaining because someone chooses to play a game in a way the game allows for - but that doesn't agree with your desires for gameplay is just plain foolish.
Now, I think the best combat gameplay comes from competing with real human players - game AI is simply not evolved enough to provide a challenge - but that doesn't mean I don't think someone can't enjoy this game by solely playing an Artisan and never lifting a weapon at all. In fact, I hope that some people do so, because whatever type of character I make, I am going to *need* that sort of person to craft the items I need. The more ironic thing is that these people can play their game without you - they might not make a living as a weaponcrafter if no one wanted weapons, but they can still be tailors, chefs etc, and survive and enjoy the game.
If we were all PvP types, there would be no weapons available, no medics, no entertainers, no artisans of any type etc, and the game would be unplayable without them.
So for the Ghods sake drop the term Carebear and learn that - OMG - other folks play games differently than you do, and get something different out of games than you do - and *you* need them, and they do not need you in the same way...
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.20 20:13:00 -
[2]
<< here is what this guy said on the swg forums i found it a interesting read gave me something to think about >>
Not a bad post. Although if the author was here I'd argue that the 'furbearers' show the exact same attitude that he rails about there.
The PKs way of playing the game is different than the furbearers. It's not wrong nor the only way to play the game. However to the furbearers that gameplay style is wrong and doesn't belong in the game. Despite all the evidence that CCP intended for space not to be safe. They seek to have it completely eliminated in the game and do not care how it affects others that also play the game.
Therefore they earn the insult "Carebear".
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Darksheer
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Posted - 2003.07.20 20:22:00 -
[3]
Playing devils advocate here you can do the flip side of this and say the pvp crowd have earned the insult "greifer" because they want the place lawless and want to be able to fight anyplace they choose
My own thought are something needs to be done to gain middle ground
1.0 space should be totally safe you sneeze in the wrong direction and you have a battleship handing you a tissue
going down the list it should get worse .1 should be pretty rough with the odd police partol coming through
But if you Kill enough in that system the cops eventualyl do show up in forse
my thoughts
flame away please
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Malais
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Posted - 2003.07.20 20:27:00 -
[4]
Actually I'd like to change the meaning of the term Carebear to...
Carebear - n See also 0.o. A carebear is someone who whines when their precieved idea of how things should work doesn't. As in, I was unable to make my 5 million isk profit from a trade route due to a) a big mean pk killed me b)someone else ran the route before me.
I know what it means, but I think for the sake of Eve we need to broaden it a bit.
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Alkad Mzu
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Posted - 2003.07.20 20:28:00 -
[5]
Why Darksheer? You're completely right :)
I refuse to believe anyone here actually *wants* PVP to be removed or rendered impossible, it adds flavour for all of us, and is obviously an important feature for any mmorpg that aspires to any level of "realism".
But as it is now, we've simply got a on/off switch for PVP.
(recent news contradicts this though, hehe)
Edited by: Alkad Mzu on 20/07/2003 20:28:40
________________________________________________
Head of Public Relations, Fountain Alliance |
Sanru
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Posted - 2003.07.20 21:28:00 -
[6]
Someone who turns to insults and labels has already admitted defeat in a debate. They cannot argue their case or against yours so they turn to the only other thing they can think of: insults.
It's laughable to me that someone thinks that simply calling someone a carebear or whatever totally negates anything that person said.
Anyways, just ignore such people. The term only has any sort of meaning or power if you let it get to you. I could care less what someone calls me. I'm more offended by their inability to take part in a civil debate than any childish names they throw at me.
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Xane
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Posted - 2003.07.20 21:54:00 -
[7]
The problem with all games is there are those who play just to get ahead, to this end they seem to discover every cheat, scam, exploit and shortcut before everyone else does.
If a trader does this, he earns a big wad of cash, big deal, perhaps someone may notice. But if a PK'er does this he makes a few other people suffer in the process, and then it's not such a big deal.
Equally, a trader could discover a way of crashing a part of the game to duplicate an item, or maybe discovers a lag generating script that earns non-stop cash overnight, or perhaps finding an exploit that fills his wallet and screws the economy. In all these cases the non-PK'er may disrupt the game in a more devastating way, but it's less personal and more likely to attract GM's attention.
I certainly would not deny the game to those who want to "play to win", they are entitled to a subscription every bit as I am, and contribute to CCPs coffers thereby continuing the development of the game. But when they are preventing other people from playing that's a problem, and that's the "griefer".
The final line is this is nothing to do with PK or not, there are people who exist to grief play for kicks, and they are the most likely to band about the "carebear" term as an excuse for their activities.
A real PK'er would not complain about the "carebears", after all, they are his bread and butter, without them there would be no easy targets, like me :)
x a n e |
Karif
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Posted - 2003.07.20 22:02:00 -
[8]
1) Labels suck
2) People who enjoy labels suck
Based on this relatively simple idea, I have come to the following rather eloquent, albeit simple conclusion:
1) PKers suck
2) Carebears suck
3) PvPers suck
4) PvEers suck
Once you are done playing with labels, drop me a line, we can probably have some rather intelligent discussions and enjoy the game more than the fools that cling to their labels...
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Deception + Information + Skill |
Xane
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Posted - 2003.07.20 22:08:00 -
[9]
5) People who make lists suck
:)
x a n e |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.20 22:23:00 -
[10]
I've never resorted to the C-word. It shows a lack of respect. I've been close, because some of them clearly don't want any respct.. But that's another matter.
Most people forget about the middleground players, but I'm sure they make up the largest population of players, those who just get on with it, and take changes in the system in their stride, and are generally happy. Then we get the extremists (slightly extreme name, but I couldn't think of anything better in the state I'm in) on either side. As ever, the extremists hate each other, as their view almost completely contradict.
This is always going to happen. the devs listen to both sides of this, and make their decisions. The fairer the balance in these decisions, the more people moan. Too far towards aggresive gameplay, and the non-pvp types won't like it, but the pvp'ers will be fairly quiet, and dismiss the views of the non-pvp'ers. And vice-versa. It's very predictable.
Which is why that SWG article could be slightly reworded, and would fit in here perfectly.
These are just new words for classic groups of people.
Anyway, I'm just here for the ride.
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 20/07/2003 22:23:53
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Master Scy
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Posted - 2003.07.20 22:36:00 -
[11]
How can you NOT use the term carebear on people who are saying "if you want PvP find another MMORPG" or simply "go away, go play counterstrike".
-----------------------------
You think Marco Polo said
"Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ?
-Indigo Seqi
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Malais
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Posted - 2003.07.20 23:01:00 -
[12]
Ok so since m0o and others want to pk those who run away are griefers?
"""But when they are preventing other people from playing that's a problem"""
The term grief is just that to give someone grief. To PK someone once, or even twice is not grief. To steal someone's trade route is not grief.
To find that person's bind point(clone station) and repeatedly pod kill them everytime they launch is grief. To follow a trader and put in buy/sell orders over theirs is grief.
By your diffenition everyone is a 'griefer' to someone else.
Basicly there needs to be a term to describe certain people easily so you don't have to type long driscriptions over and over. Like my favorite term...
Board Troll.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.20 23:04:00 -
[13]
I dunno, insults online sort of run off my back, for the most part. Especially 'go back to counterstrike', which is exactly as bad as 'go play the sims'.
It's all just bull, really. And so predictable, it's ineffective. From both sides.
Every game forum I've posted on has been the same.
This forum is maturing now, there are a core of posters, a mass of drama, threats, lies, humour and personality clashes. It's great. Adds to the game for me, knowing that all these people are floating round, and one day, enemies shall meet, and grudge matches taken to their conclusion. Someone will pod me for something I say here one day, I almost guarantee it.
It's a soap opera in here, and we are all the crappy actors :)
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.07.20 23:22:00 -
[14]
Drop the term carebear?!? omg, thats insane
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2003.07.20 23:34:00 -
[15]
6) People who QA/Test straws ... SUCK !!
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.20 23:49:00 -
[16]
IMO the two playstyles can never coexist in the same game. SimCity and WarCraft are both fun but trying to mix the two will never work for reasons that should be obvious. The SimCity fans will always call the WarCraft fans griefers. The WarCraft fans will always call the SimCity fans carebears.
The issue lies in the fact that in the rush to try to take everyones money the developers try to be everything to everyone at the players expense.
Until some company finds a way to let the SimCity types have some sort of way to advance that doesn't in any way effect the WarCraft types we're going to have forums around the world erupting with CareBear/Griefer arguments.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Jame
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Posted - 2003.07.21 01:21:00 -
[17]
"carebears" and "griefers" are twins with different kicks and the same goal... something for nothing.
you'll meet both in every game and neither has much of an impact on the gameplay of an intelligent individual.
my point is, don't let threads like this, nor the creatures that spawn them, get you down. they will persist throughout the life of EVE, despite anything the developers do. |
DeusXi
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Posted - 2003.07.21 01:35:00 -
[18]
"Carebear - n See also 0.o. A carebear is someone who whines when their precieved idea of how things should work doesn't. As in, I was unable to make my 5 million isk profit from a trade route due to a) a big mean pk killed me b)someone else ran the route before me."
you forgot c) can't kill every newb that passes through "safe" space.
according to your definition, this fits right in.
0.o
P.S. I like cheese
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Am I evil? No I'm not =P |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.21 02:02:00 -
[19]
<< you forgot c) can't kill every newb that passes through "safe" space.
according to your definition, this fits right in.
0.o
P.S. I like cheese >>
First, .4 space isn't safe. Given the fact that the security ratings go from 1.0 to 0.0 in increments of .1, you can state that danger was intended to begin at .9 down. As .9 space would be less secure than 1.0.
Second, few people arguing on the piracy side of this want to "kill every newb that passes through "safe" space." That's just bs scare tactics the furbearers spout. Suggestions for far better security systems than what we currently have and what was originally implemented have been suggested by the pirates.
In fact the strangest suggestions, ones that would completely remove any defenses from new players, have often come from those refered to as 'carebear'. Such as eliminating Concord and using faction (which would allow Minmatar to gleefully kill Amarr across the universe and vice versa).
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Intruders
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Posted - 2003.07.21 02:54:00 -
[20]
I think I have solved the riddle of the carebear phenomenon.
As long as players exist who are buying 3 to 4 diff. accounts and play online for the best of their 24 day period in order to "Top" in a game, behaving in a manner like this is another work shift for them after they get home from their real life work, for just to finish this and move over to "Top" the next game they find, and in their stragle to finish "this one" quickly (like there is someone holding a gun to their heads telling them to do it), they will do everything to help them reach this goal, even making their presence in a game related forum and demanding safer playrules, what they really do and they do not realize, is that while they live in a psychosis in their real lifes they allow it coming in with them.. online.. every time and in every community they join, every community there is supposed to be some "race for the Top" to be done.
Gaming companies of course wont bother if 1 person has to buy 3 to 4 subscriptions from them, in facvt they encourage this. So if the carebares (as they call them) hold the largest portion of the subscirpiton, companies tent to go their way in game desing, only this way we end up playing boring games, like we doing a second work shift after we finish our real one.
My perosnal view is that online MMOG gaming will suck big time in future as we go on like this. :)
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Karif
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Posted - 2003.07.21 03:41:00 -
[21]
7) People who add to lists to say that people who make lists suck...suck!
;)
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Deception + Information + Skill |
PizzaTheHut
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Posted - 2003.07.21 03:49:00 -
[22]
9)People who have PizzaTheHut for a name... and can't count... suck
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Setec
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Posted - 2003.07.21 05:01:00 -
[23]
Well, the term carebear is just used to refer to somebody who doesn't think anybody in the game should face unsolicited PVP danger. The term originates with a bunch of television characters who promoted caring about the well-being of others. What's so derogatory about that? Caring is the opposite of apathy. Why do people dislike being likened to characters that care about others?
I would certainly dislike it, but I am a pirate. I wish for my game persona to be likened to organized crime kingpins and famous bank robbers, not the predecessors to goddamn Barney. I don't feel any more guilt blowing up some guy's cruiser in Eve than I do when I charge somebody for landing on Boardwalk in Monopoly or kill somebody's queen in Chess. I'm not a carebear because I don't care about the in-game well-being of random strangers. But if I did, why would I consider the term derogatory?
And there's nothing wrong with labels--every word is a label. That's the whole point of language. Carebear is no more or less accurate a label than most other words. The people who are offended at being called carebears take offense because they're hypocrites--they don't care about others, only themselves, and unwanted PVP combat could work against them. So they pretend to care about being nice to people, but really they just care about people being nice to them, and they don't give a damn about anyone else.
Those are the carebears that hate the label, and the only way they differ from pirates and griefers is that they're dishonest and they're wimps. Carebears who take offense at being called carebears deserve to be offended--they're just as centered on self-interest as the next guy, but they want the game to be easy for them. They want the game mechanics to protect them from anyone who might take advantage of their foolishness or lack of caution. Screw 'em.
___________________________________________
Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
Rishka
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Posted - 2003.07.21 05:20:00 -
[24]
Setec .. well said.
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 05:30:00 -
[25]
Setec , I'm so glad you made the Monopoly and Chess analogies. I think of those both every time I read someone crying about "griefers" imposing their playstyle on them. If this wasn't a game about killing each other it wouldn't be chalk full of nothing but weapons and ways to get weapons. Everything in the whole game revolves around building up an army of ships and killing other players. There is nothing else. You mine to get minerals to build weapons. You trade to get isk to buy weapons or blueprints of weapons. You kill pirates to get the weapons they drop. Then when you get shot at YOU COME ON THE F*$K!NG FORUM AND CRY ABOUT GRIEFERS????!!?!?! GO PLAY TEA PARTY WITH YOUR IMAGINARY FRIENDS YOU WHINY LITTLE B!TCHES.
Sorry for the rant but sometimes the carebears just start to get to me.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
MrPops
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Posted - 2003.07.21 05:46:00 -
[26]
LOL :) great pic.
"The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is."
Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
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Ryoko
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Posted - 2003.07.21 06:37:00 -
[27]
Setec for Caldari President!
What? You mean we don't have elections? You'd think I was cloned yesterday.
Ryoko
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Seer
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Posted - 2003.07.21 06:43:00 -
[28]
I am yet to see one player in Eve who deserves the label PvP cos there arent any. Even a one v one, cruiser v cruiser or BS v BS fight is enough to send em scuttling in to the darkness. 10 v 1 gang rules only it seems and that to me is PK griefer, not PvP.
At least you carebears can rejoice in the fact you earned your title - unlike any of the other 'labelled' players.
And to pick holes in the queen in chess analogy - usually in chess there is one queen each :D
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Karif
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Posted - 2003.07.21 07:32:00 -
[29]
Actually, what Setec wrote was well written, but very wrong on quite a few levels. I'm just not interested in the discussion since I don't have the time to fully explain the problems, and I doubt it would do me, Setec, or anyone else on these forums any good.
Some free advice though:
Beware giving labels, for as much as the label becomes the person, so too does the person become the label.
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Deception + Information + Skill |
Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 08:46:00 -
[30]
Lola,
This isn't a game about "killing" and "weapons" any more (or less) than it is a game about:
* Indies running cargo from point A to B
* Miners who mine all their game time (either afk or online)
I take offence at both the label griefer and carebear just because most of the times the label is ill-used.
But as long as humans and their human emotions play this game, I'll just have to suffer the terms.
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Xane
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Posted - 2003.07.21 09:02:00 -
[31]
I wish for my game persona to be likened to organized crime kingpins and famous bank robbers, not the predecessors to goddamn Barney.
I'm just wondering what sort of Security Rating a "crime kingpin" would have ?
x a n e |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:28:00 -
[32]
Chai, are you arguing to argue or do you really not get the point? Can you not see that mining and trade are a means to an end? Much as running and kicking a soccer ball is eventually about scoring a goal?
I fear you are either trolling or one of those people that "just doesn't get it" and never will.
Please tell me you don't think monopoly is as much a game about rolling dice and moving pieces around a board as it is about controling all the spaces and dominating your opponents.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:38:00 -
[33]
Lola, l-l-l-l-l lola.
Good point. Eve is about killing carebears. I declare open season now.
Find a miner, nick his ore, then pod him at the nearest opportunity.
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Dead
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Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:39:00 -
[34]
Lola,
Either you do not get my message, or I do not get yours. At least I do not make statements about you "never getting my point". Explain to me why this is a game about killing and I might. Then again, that'll move the talk away from the topic.
When I use my mining char I mine to make money to get better mining gear, not to get better weapons to kill players better with (to kill NPC-pirates that want to keep me from mining, yes).
Guess your point truely is lost on the apparent ignorant people like me.
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Tyr Bowman
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:40:00 -
[35]
Posted by Lola
"IMO the two playstyles can never coexist in the same game. SimCity and WarCraft are both fun but trying to mix the two will never work for reasons that should be obvious. The SimCity fans will always call the WarCraft fans griefers. The WarCraft fans will always call the SimCity fans carebears.
The issue lies in the fact that in the rush to try to take everyones money the developers try to be everything to everyone at the players expense.
Until some company finds a way to let the SimCity types have some sort of way to advance that doesn't in any way effect the WarCraft types we're going to have forums around the world erupting with CareBear/Griefer arguments."
------
Neocron had a great way of acheiving this.
When you start a new character you get a little removable chip in your head which makes you immune to enemy fire. It also means your fire wont hurt other players.
This was good because it meant new players and people who dont enjoy PVP can go wandering around in the wilderness without worrying about a maxed out player with malicious intentions popping them from 3 miles away with their uber rare assault rifle.
The trouble is it meant you got considerably less XP each time you did somthing like kill a monster or make an item so most people, myself included, just unequipped theirs.
It took a long time to equip, so you dident have people simply plugging their chip in if it looked like they where going to an early grave in the middle of a PVP firefight.
This system worked really well. "If you dont like PVP, then plug in yer chip". Unfortunately its not a very RP friendly solution, and seeing as CCP seem to like the idea of their players RPing, i cant really see a similar solution which could be implemented in Eve which would keep the RPers as well as the (i hesitate to use the term Carebear) "people who dont enjoy PVP" happy.
Edited by: Tyr Bowman on 21/07/2003 10:53:55
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:42:00 -
[36]
If u don't like PVP, don't play it. Simple.
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Dead
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:14:00 -
[37]
Chai did you just say all you ever want to do is mine to get better mining equipment and nothing more? So I have an Apocolyse with 8 Cu Vapors, a drone bay full of harvesters and low slots full of the best expanders woooo!!!!! I win, game over?
You're seriously going to pay CCP a monthly fee to stare at the same damn rocks day in and day out for the next year or two? If you just want to play EVE like it's a chat room why even mine? Somehow I can't believe you actually want that. I think under that pink fuzzy suit you're parading around in you actually do want combat. I think there is no way you picked EVE out of all the games you could possibly play because you heard it was a good space mining sim. I think you're just here on the forum playing devil's advocate.
Then again maybe CCP should add a switch to the game that completely turns off your wallet and all abilities to PVP what-so-ever. Who am I to say how people should spend their time and money. Until that switch gets added though, don't come here crying that your poor defenceless mining alt/trading alt/manufacting alt/ceo alt got shot at and isn't in as good a position to supply your combat main.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:35:00 -
[38]
OK. Declarations first - I am a Carebear! I don't have a problem with the label. It suits me. I like to help people. For me that's pretty much all the label means.
However, what I DON'T want is for the EVE universe to consist entirely of Carebears. What is the point? I've been a roleplayer for 25 years now (yes, there are wrinkles under the fur). The whole point of roleplaying is to expose yourself (in a limited, vicarious way) to risks that you would never encounter in real life. RISKS! I don't care where that risk comes from - I personally think CCP made a mistake programming the pirates to leave pods alone - at least they would never have resorted to exploits to promote griefing. But again, as long as I have played RPG's, there has always been some tw(insert vowel here)t who wants to lord it over every other character. It's just life.
I respect the choice of every player who wants to play the game - if they want to sit outside a station and vape Noobs all day, then so be it. It's not what _I_ would call roleplaying, but you CAN roleplay your way out if it. It's up to the Noobs to get together, and all run out of the station in one go so that at least SOME of them survive. Or join a corp and request support from the corp to hybrid cannon the griefer outside the station back to the stone age. Or sit there and whine. It's amazing how often they can only see the third choice, but the game is so involved, there are ways around almost ANY problem.
Me I want to make loads of money, and watch the story unfold - both the story that CCP will introduce ("The Scenario") and other little sidelines that will inevitably develop. I have chosen NOT to join a corp, and I accept that this means that I will likely NEVER own a Titan, and that when I am running through any space lower than 0.5, I am on my own. Life is hard.
Long Live Carebears and the Pirates who prey upon them, for without the light, there can be no shadow.
Edited by: Grey Area on 21/07/2003 11:36:20
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:37:00 -
[39]
Tyr Bowman, yes I played neocron for quite a few months. It had some very good systems that CCP could learn a lot from. It also had far more bugs then EVE ever had. I left Neocron for the bugs and lack of players. At this point when I leave EVE it will be for lack of content.
The law chip idea was pretty good. I left mine in for about a week. You couldn't join a guild and your XP went up half as fast. In EVE they would need to make your skills train half as fast, NPC bounty give half as much, no ability to join corps outside the noobie corps, mining take twice as long and I can't see any way to allow trade.(maybe only licenced goods?) If they did that then I can see a possibly no PVP switch. It might even help to increase pvp as they could turn off CONCORD. The no pvp people should also not be able to take things from people cargo cans. I can't really see any of that being a problem to these players who say all they want to do is hang out with friends and mine.
Another thing Neocron had was a few total non-weapon zones. Plaza 1 was great, you could get implants and barter with people including the biggests PKs in the game and the atmosphere was generally cordial. I enjoyed my time in neocron.
Getting back on topic SWG has all sorts of things for the non-combat type to do. There are like 1000 emotes and quite a few different dance steps to learn. EVE has nothing like that. All it has are guns ships and ways to make money. People who play SWG shouldn't be whining about carebears. People who play EVE were sold on a cut throat gritty environment with nations at the brink of war and pirates out to steal our goods at every turn. Not Ewoks and Twi'lek dancers.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:47:00 -
[40]
I'm replying to my own post, which is bad, but I've read a few of the other comments and I had to add another bit.
Carebears really should take the time to learn as much about the combat system as they have about the market and mining system. I speak to people who can give me spot on perfect mineral yields for all the ores FROM MEMORY, including bonuses for refining skill, and profit in terms of both ISK per tonne or ISK per hour. I also know people who can tell me the fifty best trade runs in Lonetrek.
Dammit, learn the combat system in the same way! Find out what skills you need, not to fight back, but to RUN AWAY! The trouble is you want to kit your Badger out with nothing but cargo expanders, and then you are surprised when some git in an Ibis comes and gets through your paper thin hull in twenty seconds. I ran the m0o blockade (prior to the cargo can lag trick, which was a simple exploit and was treated as such by CCP) on several occasions. They were so set up for "Awesome Damage Mode" that any ship with even a feeble attempt at ECM warfare could sail through untargetted and untouched.
My point? Any sort of specialisation can be taken too far.....
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:49:00 -
[41]
Now I definitely know you are not reading what I write, Lola. Guess you just read what you want to read.
Some people play two 'main' characters you know. And with this one (Chai) I've not mined a rock since 2 days after I started and never fired a mining laser again.
Just add the fact that I play Minmatarr, run my own Corp, read what the corp is into, put it all together and start feeling silly.
What I do with my mining character which is a different one from this one FYO is a different story. And as mining for me gets boring after a while I swap to this action character.
And because I run two different types of character is exactly the reason why I loathe people who put carebear or griefer labels on people.
Edit: spelling
Edited by: Chai N'Dorr on 21/07/2003 11:50:50
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DeusXi
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:49:00 -
[42]
you know what I like to do to vent over all this BS?
Type up a really really really long post. Read it. Laugh at myself for how retarded it looks. Delete it.
I suggest a few of you try this.
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Am I evil? No I'm not =P |
slothe
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:55:00 -
[43]
carebears.
i have no problem with people who want to trade or produce in this game, that in itself does not mean someone who is a carebear.
i would define a carebear as someone who complains being killed in a situation that is entirely of there own making.
e.g."i mined/traded/whatever, got decent ship/cargo and i am annoyed that i got killed while flying through (0.0) space, this is unfair ....etc...etc"
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
http://www.khainestar.com/eve |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:03:00 -
[44]
So you have a mining alt that you use purely for the fun of mining with? You don't interact with other players at all when you are on your mining alt other than to further you career as a miner who like to collect the best mining gear. Once you have the best mining gear any and all ore you mine is purely for the sake mining and collecting ore just to look at it and see what kind of little stacks you can make in your hangar. You will never use anything your mining alt collects to advance himself beyond being a mining alt or any other charactersin any way. This is what you are telling me? If you say it is true I will believe you and say more power to you. I strongly feel however that you are in the extreme minority if you say this is true.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
DeusXi
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:10:00 -
[45]
What's wrong with being in the minority? I have 2 accounts and use both to simply mine and run ores/mins. Sure maybe one day I'll hop on the combat bandwagon too, but not untill I know I can kick some major ass. I'm not stupid ya know. Noway am I gunna let Ywev pod me later =P
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Am I evil? No I'm not =P |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:14:00 -
[46]
DeusXi, by your statement "Sure maybe one day I'll hop on the combat bandwagon too, but not untill I know I can kick some major ass." You are clearing not in the minority. I'd say that is the attitude of the majority of this games player base.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
DeusXi
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:18:00 -
[47]
ah yes, good point... but *currently* and for a long time yet to come, I shall remain in my little safe places and only peek out in my 1583 m/s vigil ;)
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Am I evil? No I'm not =P |
Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:30:00 -
[48]
lol@Lola
Stop assuming things and drawing conclusions from those assumptions and just read what I write. Perhaps we understand each other better that way and can actually have a meaningful discussion about it.
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Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:33:00 -
[49]
Damn you DeusXi, got my Vigil 'peaked' at 1280 m/s at the moment...
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Xtreme Wrath
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:54:00 -
[50]
Carebears? They taste great with butter and garlic if you don't overcook them.
Griefers? They all inevitabley get what they dish out since there will always be someone a little bigger and little bit badder kinda like the stay puft marshmallow man...
The rest of us? Enjoy the game and take it all in stride and realize IT'S ONLY FERKING GAME.
Point being that playstyles differ, if there were no pirates to worry about then this would simply be Earth and Beyond with better graphics... <shudders>
'Nuff said ;o)
What we do in Life, echoes in eternity
Strength and honor |
Barl Rathbone
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:55:00 -
[51]
What on earth is the issue here ?
So some players like PVP, some dont.
The eve universe is setup to allow both.
"Carebears" can stay in 1.0 space if they want to take on a peaceful career - which is a valid way to play the game.
Those who want to PvP etc also have plenty of places to do so - again a valid way to play the game.
To say either way is wrong and should be removed is totally ridiculous.
The main attraction of Eve is the depth of the universe and the opportunities that are within the game.
A pure trading game, or a pure PVP game would be pretty dull in my book.
(PS I am a miner/manafacturer but should I ever die at the hands of the player I will just have to accept it is a dangerous place !)
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:55:00 -
[52]
I already made my point long ago. It's that mining and trade are a means to an end. That is, to gain wealth. The only things to buy in the game are weapons, ships or other things with which to better your money making potential. You contradicted that statement and said something to the effect of "It's not the destination, it's the jouney". I'm trying to show you that as long as a game has build and smash features that it doesn't matter how much you enjoy building some other player is going to come smash. The term "carebear" would only come in to play if you came on the forum and cried about "griefers". Until your building features have as little effect on other's smashing features as the carebears want smashing features to have on building features we're going to have problems. Do you see what I'm saying?
You can "like" moving your chess pieces forward all you want. You can consider chess to be a game that is all about moving your pieces forward. Just don't cry about getting into checkmate and I won't cry about you moving your pieces forward.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:23:00 -
[53]
Jeesh... could you just have done with all the 'fuzzy suit stuff' and 'telling that I'd never' get it.. and posted this earlier? :)
Cause now I (finally) do understand what you mean with your weapons and guns. You garbled that really well in the post I replied to.
Still, there's plenty more (at least for me) to safe up wealth for than solely guns. Don't have your BB with 8 CU's yet, nor 10 Harvesters and 10 Ogre drones (or the skills for that matter), for my mining-alt. Nor do I have the money yet to buy 10 Imi's and outfit them for the newbies that join the (newbie) Corp as I am planning to do down the road.
Neither do I have the AB's and Overdrives (or whatever module) that Deus has to make my Vigil go faster than his... so it's not all about weapons or ships. Can afford a Cruiser, just don't want to buy one.
Kinda lost what all this has to do with carebear-labels tho'.
;)
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Ruby LeFonte
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:25:00 -
[54]
I like the carebears too!
Edited by: Ruby LeFonte on 21/07/2003 13:26:03
Just because we are paranoid, doesn't mean you're not out to get us. |
Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:49:00 -
[55]
"Not a bad post. Although if the author was here I'd argue......"
No way Jash. you'd argue?? get outta here...
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If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:53:00 -
[56]
This is going to be my last post in this thread for at least 10 hours.
This has to do with carebears because they are the ones who want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to safely mine or trade until whatever point they feel ready to venture out into the big bad world and then cry about it when they get themselves in a situation they couldn't handle and call other players griefers for beating them. The original post might be interesting to think about but the fact remains that SWG caters far more to the carebear playsytle than EVE does. EVE has no dance emotes, no entertainer proffesion and no menu options to ask another player if it's ok for you to shoot them. EVE only has CONCORD. Until CCP adds a PVP off switch or people realize that EVE was built to be dangerous and stop crying on the forums to nerf the pirates because their indy full of bistot got popped then you are going to read the word carebear.
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