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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.06 21:01:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Randay
no T2 BS = me not playing eve for another year. now that dreadnoughts are out there is room for t2 bs, a t2 bs vs DN would be the same as a hac vs BS, whats wrong with that picture?
Nothing is wrong with that picture.
People are far too stupid to realize that most pvpers will be able to afford maybe 1 or 2 of these elite battleships before there wallets bottom out.
Risk vs Reward
What will be needed to take down say a 700m isk elite geddon?
1 Scorpion + 1 tempest
Wow, 2 normal battleships just took down what, 15 battleships worth in isk?
Use your brains for **** sakes, this isn't QuakeÖ.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.06 21:35:00 -
[32]
Adding more powerful combat-battleships wouldn't help the game in the least. All they would do is make level 4 missions easy to do, faction ships not even worth the effort to get, and PvP even more one sided.
Tech 2 Battleships should have support roles, we don't need a new uber combat ship that tops everything we have previously seen short of a dreadnaught...
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Randay
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Posted - 2005.08.06 21:35:00 -
[33]
yeah i dont understand why these people are saying that T2 BS will break the game either.
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.08.06 21:51:00 -
[34]
HAC pilots are getting to the point where they're maxing out their skills. If CCP doesn't start giving them new time sinks, then they'll start to leave; nich ships just don't cut it for that.
Assault Battleships are coming. It's just a matter of time.
Harry Voyager
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Antic
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Posted - 2005.08.06 22:10:00 -
[35]
my guess is that the time is right when the Kali features hits us. With faction wars and proper grouping systems.
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2005.08.06 22:32:00 -
[36]
There was a blog that mentioned tech2 battleships will not be like HAC's. It was about 3 months ago though...
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Ham a Tee Tee Oh |
Antic
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Posted - 2005.08.06 22:36:00 -
[37]
the same blogs that mentioned that carriers and tech 2 BS would be out along with dreads before kali.
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Xthril Ranger
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Posted - 2005.08.06 23:19:00 -
[38]
Oveur
Originally by: someone
any news on when we can expect to see t2 battleships?
Originally by: Oveur
Next patch.
hirr |
Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2005.08.06 23:38:00 -
[39]
Honestly I think the T2 BS should be ships dedicated to specific Roles. A t2 Tempest would be a Dreadnaught Killer,a T2 Apoc should be a cheap revalation in short used for tanking Dreads and POS and be able to fit a full rack of large beams and a tank,a t2 Scorp thats a rail barge dedicated for sniping other BS and HACs,T2 Megathron set to kill T2 Apocs and Sheild Tanked T2 Scorp. Also a T2 domi doing ewar would be nice. Then you could have a T2 Phoon with tracking and drone bonuses for assaulting HAC fleets and the T2 Raven would be a short ragne anti-support and super tanked ship or covert ops/logistics ship.
Having ALL T2 BS being super tankers is a little stupid imo since they would negate the purpose of Dreads seeing as they would do the same job but only taking to do it.
Undisputed Lord Of The Forums!!!
The best joke ever!!!!
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sweet__kitty/40953.html?mode=reply
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Branmuffin
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Posted - 2005.08.07 02:15:00 -
[40]
I really don't want to see Assualt Battleships, not many players do.
Only the leetbooy crowd really wants it and they are not the most representative aspect of the playerbase.
Face it, Assault battleships would be so disgustingly overpowered and counterproductive CCP won't do them.
CCP Wants to foster nuanced fleet combat and get away from the Biggest Baddest Paradigm.
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.08.07 02:34:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Randay
Edited by: Randay on 06/08/2005 20:59:38
Edited by: Randay on 06/08/2005 20:59:26
no T2 BS = me not playing eve for another year... frankly MMOs are all about content...
That's not called adding content, that's called skillpoint and combat inflation. W00t instead of hitting for 100 now everyone's hitting for 1000 and there's no reason for new players to join EVE.
CCP has it right and will continue to get it right when it comes to this facet. You don't simply add bigger and better, you add new specialisations. When i joined the only thing anyone ever used in combat were battleships, and the wingeing on the forums was about how in the good old days battleships were rare but not any more. As said above, it's taken a year to fix that problem, and CCP won't make it again.
If the only thing keeping you playing this game is getting more and more uber at the same thing you've always been doing, then you should be playing WoW.
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2005.08.07 02:39:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Lucian Alucard
Honestly I think the T2 BS should be ships dedicated to specific Roles. A t2 Tempest would be a Dreadnaught Killer... etc
Even if they narrowed the ships down to those roles, they would really still be extra-powerful battleships. No matter the intention, if it's at all possible to do then people will stuff in gank setups.
Maybe, maaayyyybe if they gave a -95% tracking penalty to t2 battleships they could just add slots, damage bonuses and resists to the T1 template like cruiser->HAC. But even that could have unforseen effects on game balance.
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The1
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Posted - 2005.08.07 03:30:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Randay
no T2 BS = me not playing eve for another year. now that dreadnoughts are out there is room for t2 bs, a t2 bs vs DN would be the same as a hac vs BS, whats wrong with that picture?
Nothing is wrong with that picture.
People are far too stupid to realize that most pvpers will be able to afford maybe 1 or 2 of these elite battleships before there wallets bottom out.
Risk vs Reward
What will be needed to take down say a 700m isk elite geddon?
1 Scorpion + 1 tempest
Wow, 2 normal battleships just took down what, 15 battleships worth in isk?
Use your brains for **** sakes, this isn't QuakeÖ.
Yea, and the same 700mill elite Geddon with its own scorp for support = dead Tempest and Scorp. Stupid point.
If you add a Scorp to pretty much any otherwise 1 v 1 encounter and of course the Scorp supported ship is going to win. The only stupid thing about having the 700mil ship would be NOT flying with your own support.
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Randay
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Posted - 2005.08.07 07:36:00 -
[44]
Do you people not realise there are capital ships in the game already? These ships are called dreadnoughts. They have like 100000 hp each and hit harder then any T2 BS will...
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Randay
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Posted - 2005.08.07 07:39:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Randay on 07/08/2005 07:40:36
Originally by: Aliksr
Originally by: Randay
Edited by: Randay on 06/08/2005 20:59:38
Edited by: Randay on 06/08/2005 20:59:26
no T2 BS = me not playing eve for another year... frankly MMOs are all about content...
That's not called adding content, that's called skillpoint and combat inflation. W00t instead of hitting for 100 now everyone's hitting for 1000 and there's no reason for new players to join EVE.
CCP has it right and will continue to get it right when it comes to this facet. You don't simply add bigger and better, you add new specialisations. When i joined the only thing anyone ever used in combat were battleships, and the wingeing on the forums was about how in the good old days battleships were rare but not any more. As said above, it's taken a year to fix that problem, and CCP won't make it again.
If the only thing keeping you playing this game is getting more and more uber at the same thing you've always been doing, then you should be playing WoW.
Hi Mr. Obviously-new-player. Hard core Tempest pilots are already hitting for well over 1000 (even over 2000) damage with Tech 2 guns. And once some of them get into the minnie DNs, im sure they will easily break the 4k barrier.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.07 08:26:00 -
[46]
Dreadnaughts are acctually supposed to be rare though, so they can be as overpowered as they want, I don't care as long as there are never so many of them that the playerbase doesn't take notice anymore if one gets destroyed.
The important thing in Eve is that there has to be a shift from "Most expensive ship that does the most damage wins" to "Most diverse group of ships with good strategy wins" And that can't be accomplished by making tech 2 Battleships just another end all be all ship.
I mean a lot of people were already ****ed about the introduction of HACs because they felt that elite frigates were the only thing that gave frigates a chance to compete with the tech 1 counterparts of bigger classes, and couldn't anyomre if bigger ships got tech 2 versions too...
Right now the balance is getting pretty decent. Battleships are still the backbone of any fleet, but tech 2 combat ships are giving them a run for their money. Introducing a more powerful Battleship to the game would just kill that effect again...
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Darlan Flame
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Posted - 2005.08.07 12:38:00 -
[47]
I have to say the call for Assault class battleships to act as "dreadnaught killers" is a steaming pile. Arn't dreadnaughts already weak against everything but stationary, afk, no module battleships? Why do you need a dedicated killer of something that has so many easily exploitable weakpoints, such as a group of almost every ship class in the game being able to dodge the shots of dreadnaughts with almost ridiculous ease.
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Darlan Flame
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Posted - 2005.08.07 12:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Randay
Edited by: Randay on 07/08/2005 07:40:36
Originally by: Aliksr
Originally by: Randay
Edited by: Randay on 06/08/2005 20:59:38
Edited by: Randay on 06/08/2005 20:59:26
no T2 BS = me not playing eve for another year... frankly MMOs are all about content...
That's not called adding content, that's called skillpoint and combat inflation. W00t instead of hitting for 100 now everyone's hitting for 1000 and there's no reason for new players to join EVE.
CCP has it right and will continue to get it right when it comes to this facet. You don't simply add bigger and better, you add new specialisations. When i joined the only thing anyone ever used in combat were battleships, and the wingeing on the forums was about how in the good old days battleships were rare but not any more. As said above, it's taken a year to fix that problem, and CCP won't make it again.
If the only thing keeping you playing this game is getting more and more uber at the same thing you've always been doing, then you should be playing WoW.
Hi Mr. Obviously-new-player. Hard core Tempest pilots are already hitting for well over 1000 (even over 2000) damage with Tech 2 guns. And once some of them get into the minnie DNs, im sure they will easily break the 4k barrier.
Wasn't he making... a baseball quote?
P.S. good job owning drunkenone.
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Lagar
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Posted - 2005.08.07 15:06:00 -
[49]
T2 BS's will be very usefull.. However.. first of all.. i personaly would not expect them to have the resistance bonuses of the heavy assault ships.. for more than 1 reason.
second the cost (altho that is less of an issue.. the cost of those ships might rival dreadnoughts curently due to profit.. i am not 100% sure if you will se them being used in 0.0 untill one can actualy mass produce it..
The only real question curently is WHAT type of bonuses will the T2 BS get? 
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.08.07 15:37:00 -
[50]
People will use them in 0.0 if they cost 2 billion. I've seen a Navy Apoc, Navy Raven, and numerous pirate faction battleships all flying about in 0.0 regions. These ships all cost more than 1 billion.
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
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Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Posted - 2005.08.07 17:46:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Oveur
Next patch.
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"Taking one for the team one ship at a time." |
Mental Oriental
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Posted - 2005.08.07 17:58:00 -
[52]
link to oveurs comment plz
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Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Posted - 2005.08.07 18:41:00 -
[53]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=196916
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"Taking one for the team one ship at a time." |
Evil Thug
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Posted - 2005.08.07 21:19:00 -
[54]
I thought, that dred will be uber mega pwning machine, designed for Russian Quake Playin style  . I was wrong. What we got ? Veeeeery slow ship, designed for killing pos ONLY.
As for t2 bs. Devs can just barely increase theyr firepower, and\or tanking ability. Bit - means add 1 extra slot, or 1 extra turret \ launcher. Make them cheaper than the fraction ships, but alot expensive than tech 1 brother.
Idea with Elite Assault Ship - imo stupid. Killin 1 bs with 20 bs focus in 2 minutes. Yes, we need it. [/sarcasm]
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Ash to Ash
Dust to Dust |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.07 21:58:00 -
[55]
Originally by: The1
Yea, and the same 700mill elite Geddon with its own scorp for support = dead Tempest and Scorp. Stupid point.
Umm no **** sherlock?
Tech 1 battleship + a tech 2 will and should kill 2 tech 1 battleships.
My point was to prove that they won't be overpowered because there are many ways to take them down and cause massive amounts of isk loss.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.08.07 22:05:00 -
[56]
just give me tech2 EW ships please
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.08.07 22:39:00 -
[57]
yea i read that dev blog to lady darksaber what i remember is they are not uber ship killers nor are they S.H.A.C.S they are basically command ships that use those new gang modules extensively.
It will have some offensive buffing compared to tier 2 b/ships but wont be uber like hacs are to cruisers
Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beer Holder!!! |
Admiral Kangaroo
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Posted - 2005.08.07 23:03:00 -
[58]
i agree 100%...expand the game more and more to keep people intersted. but instead of a newer and bigger class of ship, how about a new race of people? diff stats, all new ships (maybe a new type of frig or cruiser that they created) or something like that. that would make room for several new ships and new items (frigs, cruiser, b-ships). a whole new area found outside of empire space that has its own "law" governing body (.5 and higher sec status) that one must travel through .0 to reach for the new items and ore. they can come complete with their own races of rats that drop new items besides just the hybrid, laser, projectiles or missiles (maybe they use a combination or 2-3 and get smaller bonuses but on 2 different ones +2.5% damage per lev on lasers and projectiles or something). he is an idea..cross breeds. like a gallente raised by amarrians...they would have the gallente stats, but would know how to use amarr ships and lasers and get their bonuses(something). because i like the stats of the amarr (not really, just example), but love hybrid weapons so i dont get the bonuses for flying the gallente ships or their weapons since i am an ammarian raised by gallente people.
something new..expand the character class..or make a new oriental race or something..who knows/who cares, just something new not just bigger and better but different. more choices, not more power..
i used to host and edit text based mudd games from home and to create a new weapon or spell was ok, but when we would create a new class or new race with all new stats and bonuses, the people who played loved it (its not 12k people, but for 1998 i had 50+ logged in and were loyal). a new race(s) would be welcome...but half-breeds would be alot easier.
example...you log in and pick a race. that gives you your raw character abilities, then you pick where he was raised and it gives you bonuses (or your primary race followed by secondary race (mom and dad (or 2 moms and a chemistry set)).
it doesnt matter what you call it..these are just ideas for people to ponder and expand upon.
just my 2 cents.
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Leneerra
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Posted - 2005.08.07 23:19:00 -
[59]
It has already been stated that t2 bs will be in the next major update. also it has been stated that these ships will be some kind of flagships.
So I guess they will have some improved defences, but most likely some reduced offensive power. And it will probebly enhance the performance of other ships in the fleet, as flagsips tend to do so in general.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.08.07 23:41:00 -
[60]
HAC-like battleships im not really worried about. The major differences between regular cruisers and HAC is the spare grid needed to fit tech 2 gear, and the resists. Well on battleships the grid is not really an issue. Apoc fits 8 megapulse II's, Megathron fits 7 425mm II's, Tempest fits 6 1400mm II's, all with very little effort.
Have you even seen a pvper use dual 250mm, 350mm, 1200mm or dual heavy pulse? Seriously, the damage isn't going to skyrocket, its just going to depend on the bonuses given. As for tanking, for pvp its a welcomed thing. Have you seen a battleship with 80% to all go down in a single volley? I have.
Its not fun I tell you, especially if you invested weeks into getting good modules. Right now battleship combat tends to last less than thirty seconds. What the hell? This isn't god damned counterstrike, there is no free respawns. I'd like to know that my two years of training and billions of isk is going to amount to something more than a "quickie" with the local hookers.
With that said, HAC are about 10-20 times as expensive as their cruiser counterparts, and this is with prices "leveling out". Imagine the same with a tech 2 battleship. You're talking about 1-2billion being the standard, and upwards of 3billion during the first few weeks. HAC resists only fall under two damage types.. if you see people loading all heat sinks on a Viziam-Armageddon like they do for Zealots, then they have a few screws loose.
With that said, the only way they'll "screw up" the game is by how easy npcing will be. But find me one dedicated npcer that can't handle any standard spawn in 0.0 alone. For gods sake people are doing 10/10 complexes with two people. You know why? Because NPCs are just plain stupid.. and 90% of the real risk of npcing was removed when they made frigs the only scrambling force. NPCs in general need to be less stupid and less pansy, I remember right after Castor a 250k shadow sage would rip you a new one in seconds.
The only trouble you come across with npcs is those that tank all the firepower a single battleship can muster. And when you're already capable of fitting a full rack of tech 2 guns, how is this going to change with tech 2 HAC-like bs?
Ideally tech 2 battleship (from my experiences) should have HAC resists, and the nicer grid/slots/hardpoints/whatever.. but they should not have their third bonus apply to weapons, it should be for command stuff. That means tech 2 battleships will be flagships, with hopefully an insane bonus to specific things. Tech 2 dom will boost damage/speed of all drones in gang by 5% per level of Flagships skill. Tech 2 scorp will boost EW effectiveness of all EW mods for the same amount. Tech 2 apoc would increase resists. Tech 2 Typhoon would increase speed (or reduce sig). Tech 2 Raven would increase speed of all missiles in gang..
Stuff like that.
Charisma is going to get a lot more important for combat characters
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Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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